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Apple Disclosures About Jobs To Face SEC Review

suraj.sun writes "US regulators are examining Apple Inc.'s disclosures about Chief Executive Officer Steve Jobs's health problems to ensure investors weren't misled, a person familiar with the matter said. The Securities and Exchange Commission's review doesn't mean investigators have seen evidence of wrongdoing, the person said, declining to be identified because the inquiry isn't public. Bloomberg News reported last week that Jobs is considering a liver transplant as a result of complications after treatment for cancer, according to people who are monitoring his illness."

187 comments

  1. Seems like... by Jonah+Bomber · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A corporation is bigger than just one man.

    1. Re:Seems like... by hendrix2k · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It isn't an issue of the corporation being bigger than just one man. The SEC is investigating because it's a matter of whether investors were mislead by Apple's disclosures. Because while a CEO is just a man, he's a very important man within that corporation and his health and well-being does in fact affect share prices. Whether that should be the case is entirely irrelevant to the SEC's need to investigate.

      A corporation is bigger than just one man, but let's put that in perspective:

      /. is bigger than CmdrTaco, but if he had Jobs' health issues, it would still affect the readers in one form or another.

    2. Re:Seems like... by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Sounds like just about anyone is bigger than Steve these days!

  2. republicans? by bonkeydcow · · Score: 1

    I can't read the article because it's a bad link, but why that tag? If you use apple products your automatically a dem?

    1. Re:republicans? by assantisz · · Score: 1

      Are we geeks or not? Just replace the single quote in the bad link with a question mark.

    2. Re:republicans? by Samschnooks · · Score: 1
      FTFA:

      In the past year, the SEC has been criticized by lawmakers, investors and its own inspector general as lacking aggressiveness and being deferential to companies, including Wall Street banks. Last month, the agency admitted it failed to detect Madoffâ(TM)s alleged fraud, even though it had received âoecredible and specificâ complaints about the 70-year-old New York money manager for at least a decade.

      The SEC is part of the Executive Branch. The Executive Branch has been controlled by the Republican party; hence, the Republican tag.

    3. Re:republicans? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Are we geeks or not? Just replace the single quote in the bad link with a question mark.

      Is this the new version of Slashdot capcha?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:republicans? by Applekid · · Score: 1

      Last month, the agency admitted it failed to detect Madoff's alleged fraud, even though it had received "credible and specific" complaints about the 70-year-old New York money manager for at least a decade.

      The SEC is part of the Executive Branch. The Executive Branch has been controlled by the Republican party; hence, the Republican tag.

      At least a decade - 8 years >= 2 years. Besides, securities scandal is certainly not unique to Republicans.

      I would say that because the SEC was sleeping on the job on Madoff they are under additional scrutiny to follow up much more aggressively on everything now, even something as silly as this.

      Let's not make it partisan conspiracy when it's clearly a simple case of incompetence.

      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
  3. Two things... by assantisz · · Score: 0

    a) a person's health is private matter, b) Apple is doing something really wrong when it puts all its eggs into Job's basket - no man or woman should have so much power in a company that his/her illness can cause ripples in the business world.

    1. Re:Two things... by 0racle · · Score: 3

      Jobs not doing keynotes and Apple announcing that Jobs took a leave of absence is Apple trying to clue investors into the fact that more then one person works at Apple. It's investors that think otherwise, not Apple putting it's eggs in one basket.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
  4. broken link? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The story doesn't load for me. It appears to be a broken link.

  5. Liver transplant? by actionbastard · · Score: 3, Funny

    If Jobs is going to have one he'd better get in line, as I hear that Larry Hagman has all available ones claimed.

    --
    Sig this!
  6. Taken in by the slick packaging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do they mean the way the users have been taken in by the slick packaging to imagine that the quality of the software and hardware they are buying is worthy of the price?

  7. fixed link by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aDL78iMCdOzk

    (its a question mark, not a quote mark...)

    copy the url, look at it, does it look 'right' to you? ;) usually its a question mark as the first delim char before the parms.

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    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    1. Re:fixed link by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      Should have left it broken. Hate to see bad journalism bringing in the traffic.

  8. Re:fixed link (text inline) by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 3, Informative

    Apple Disclosures About Jobs Said to Face SEC Review (Update2)

    By David Scheer and Connie Guglielmo

    Jan. 21 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. regulators are examining Apple Inc.'s disclosures about Chief Executive Officer Steve Jobs's health problems to ensure investors weren't misled, a person familiar with the matter said.

    The Securities and Exchange Commission's review doesn't mean investigators have seen evidence of wrongdoing, the person said, declining to be identified because the inquiry isn't public. Bloomberg News reported last week that Jobs is considering a liver transplant as a result of complications after treatment for cancer, according to people who are monitoring his illness.

    Investors have been pressing for information on Jobs's health since June, when he appeared noticeably thinner at an Apple event. The company's stock whipsawed this month after Jobs, who battled pancreatic cancer in 2004, said he would remain CEO while seeking a "relatively simple" treatment for a nutritional ailment. Nine days later, Jobs said he would take a five-month medical leave after learning his health issues were "more complex."

    "The good news flipped by the bad news makes one wonder what Apple knew," said James Cox, a law professor at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina. "It's not surprising for the SEC to come in and look afterward, given the pressure and publicity regarding their handling of a lot of cases," such as criticism of the SEC's response to Bernard Madoff's alleged $50 billion Ponzi scheme.

    SEC spokesman John Nester declined to comment on the Apple inquiry. Steve Dowling, a spokesman for Cupertino, California- based Apple, declined to comment.

    Apple will report first-quarter earnings after the market close today, followed by a conference call at 5 p.m. New York time.

    Shares Rose

    Apple's shares rose 4.2 percent on Jan. 5 after Jobs said he had been diagnosed with a hormone imbalance that caused him to lose weight throughout 2008 and "that has been robbing me of the proteins my body needs to be healthy." It was the first public disclosure of Jobs's health since August 2004, when he revealed he had undergone successful surgery to remove a neuroendocrine islet cell tumor, a rare, slow-growing type of cancer that affects as many as 3,000 people in the U.S. annually.

    Before today, Apple stock had dropped 8.4 percent since the company disclosed Jan. 14 that Jobs, 53, would be on medical leave through June. The shares added $1.58, or 2 percent, to $79.78 in Nasdaq Stock Market trading at 9:31 a.m. New York time.

    Apple has declined to provide specifics of the illness and Jobs said he won't comment further about his health. "Why don't you guys leave me alone -- why is this important?" he said in a telephone interview with Bloomberg News on Jan. 16.

    Definitive Answers'

    To bring any case, the SEC would probably have to show the company tried to benefit by withholding information about an unambiguous diagnosis, said Peter Henning, a former federal prosecutor and SEC lawyer who now teaches at Wayne State University Law School in Detroit.

    "It would be difficult, and certainly a new area of the law," Henning said. "You would have to pin down exactly what they knew, and with a health issue -- unlike a merger or a decline in revenue -- it's not subject to definitive answers."

    Corporate governance experts say shareholder interest in Jobs is unusually high because he is considered synonymous with Apple. He returned as CEO in 1997, turning the once-unprofitable maker of Macintosh computers into a successful consumer- electronics company with the iPod media player and iPhone. Jobs established himself as the face of Apple, serving as the main pitchman at every major product announcement over the past decade while yielding little time to other top executives.

    "Steve Jobs himself thinks the Steve Jobs mystique is of value -- otherwise, why not have other people introduce those products over the past 10 years?" said Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, associate dea

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    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  9. Re:Apple isn't Apple without Steve. by hobbit · · Score: 1

    According to the graph you linked to, the most major downturn in stock value related not to Steve's health, but to the following news:

    Apple Inc. Executives Settle Shareholder Suits For $14 Million-Reuters
    Thursday, 11 Sep 2008 01:32am EDT
    Reuters reported that federal judge in San Jose has given preliminary approval to a $14 million settlement of shareholder claims over backdating of stock options against current and former Apple Inc executives, court documents showed. The current and former executives and directors, including Chief Executive Steve Jobs, agreed to the settlement. As part of the deal, Apple's liability insurer agreed to pay the Company $14 million, the court document said. The deal also includes the insuring company's payment of nearly $9 million in fees and expenses to lawyers who brought the state and federal actions that were later consolidated. U.S. District Judge Jeremy Fogel gave preliminary approval to the proposal and set a hearing for Oct. 31 to finalize it.

    --
    "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
  10. Bernie Maddoff was reviewed by these guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    And they found nothing wrong.

    Now with their necks on the line, they will make something up if needed to show that they are doing their jobs.

  11. Re:Article link... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 0, Redundant

    the link you posted is different; they marked that as 'update1'.

    the update2 link was posted in the article - just change the ' to a ? and it works fine.

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    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  12. Re:Apple isn't Apple without Steve. by afidel · · Score: 4, Informative

    Looking at the 3 month chart they are moving almost exactly with the market and are down about 2% less then the NASDAQ composite over that time period. Over the 1 year period they are down about 12% more than the NASDAQ composite but the movements are mostly market tracking.

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  13. democrats? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Probably the same reason it has the "democrats" tag: no reason at all! I've seen an article about George W. Bush tagged "democrats". Just ignore the "republicans" and "democrats" tags; they rarely make sense.

    1. Re:democrats? by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Better yet, just ignore all the tags. They're pretty much useless.

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    2. Re:democrats? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      New Tag ... "tasareuseless" :-D Thanks for the suggestion!

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    3. Re:democrats? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      tag parent "strawberry"!

    4. Re:democrats? by Paul+Carver · · Score: 1

      Do you mean that there are people who aren't using the Greasemonkey tag remover script?

    5. Re:democrats? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You kidding?
      Tagging is cool.

      Remember when the summary said that Hans Reiser apparently disclosed where murdered wife was hidden and the story was tagged 'storage'? :D

  14. Corrected Link by suraj.sun · · Score: 0, Redundant
  15. actually by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 1

    Rush Limbaugh apparently uses a Mac.

    1. Re:actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it hypocritical that his use of certain name brand narcotics motivated me to follow his example, but his use of electronics had the opposite effect?

    2. Re:actually by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 1

      If you're modeling anything you say, do, or think on Rush Limbaugh, your possibly being a hypocrite is the very least of your problems.

  16. Not in Apple's case. by Samschnooks · · Score: 1
    FTFA:

    âoeSteve Jobs himself thinks the Steve Jobs mystique is of value -- otherwise, why not have other people introduce those products over the past 10 years?â said Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, associate dean of the Yale University School of Management. âoeSteve Jobs, Martha Stewart and Donald Trump have all made the boss the brand. The boss is the brand at Apple.â

    Jobs set himself up to be a "Rock Star" businessman. He was always the guy at MacWorld, he was the guy that has this cult around him. What Apple needs to do is to start highlighting the designers as a group that actually come up with the ideas. I don't think Jobs was actually the one who came up with the iPod, and iWhatever they are (I'm not an Apple fanboy if you can't tell.).

    1. Re:Not in Apple's case. by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't think Jobs was actually the one who came up with the iPod, and iWhatever they are (I'm not an Apple fanboy if you can't tell.).

      If you're talking about that desk lamp computer monstrosity, I think you mean the iSore.

      --
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      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    2. Re:Not in Apple's case. by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Jobs set himself up to be a "Rock Star" businessman. He was always the guy at MacWorld, he was the guy that has this cult around him. What Apple needs to do is to start highlighting the designers as a group that actually come up with the ideas.

      You cant simply replace a cult of personality, secondly a sociopath will resist the waning of their glory, often violently. Jobs set himself up in this position, don't think that he will relinquish his status willingly and until his status is reduced others cannot be highlighted. Apple is tied to jobs, this is of their own doing. Apple were never the company that thought of the long term.

      I don't think Jobs was actually the one who came up with the iPod, and iWhatever they are (I'm not an Apple fanboy if you can't tell.).

      It doesn't matter who came up with it, Jobs took the credit.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  17. Practice what you preach, SEC. by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'll tell you what, Mr. SEC Investigator, you do a really good job sniffing out wrong-doing in the Mortgage Crisis (and that means severely pointing fingers at Congress) as well as demanding transparency in the oil trade business and I'll let you bitch about Apple.

    1. Re:Practice what you preach, SEC. by bill_kress · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Sometimes I wish slashdot would just give you one mod point each day (not cumulative, just one max) just so you could vote up a really insightful comment like this one even when you aren't a mod.

    2. Re:Practice what you preach, SEC. by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      Damn these Troll/Insightful submissions. They tear at my insides....

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
  18. You mean he doesn't actually have AIDS? by SrWebDeveloper · · Score: 1

    Yes, the subject of this reply is tasteless. Just as tasteless as a corporation releasing personal health matters under the guise of "full disclosure" or a government agency's "review" without any evidence of malfeasance whatsoever. The truth is Mr. Jobs simply suffered a misdiagnosis which led to rampant speculation opening the door to all this insane over reaction. Let's all wish the man good health and offer support in his time of physical crisis, and maybe offer a damned apology for the burden of all this unnecessary and additional emotional baggage. He's earned better than this.

  19. This wouldn't be an issue at most companies.... by King_TJ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have to side with Jobs himself, on this one. People just need to leave him alone, and stay out of this media crusade to "get to the bottom of what's ailing him".

    The ONLY reason people are worked into a frenzy (and even got the SEC involved) in Apple's case is because of the intense focus on Steve Jobs as THE man behind Apple.

    (My mom is friends with a guy who went through chemotherapy for pancreatic cancer, very similar to what Jobs had. Even though he was initially doing well, they discovered some of the cancer cells had metastasized to his liver, and about 4 years later, he's looking at a possible liver transplant. So *if* Bloomberg's report is accurate -- I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is the REAL story with Jobs' health right now.)

    Nonetheless, it's not doing investors or the company any good to keep harping on it, and perpetuating the idea that Apple can't function without Steve in charge!

    He's not going to live forever, even if it turns out this whole thing was made up as an excuse for Jobs to give himself a 6 month vacation! There has to be a "plan B", and any decent CEO has certainly given that some thought.

    IMHO, Steve Jobs already served his main purpose for Apple. He rescued the company from a downward spiral, completely revamped the product line from top to bottom and turned it into one of the biggest tech success stories out there. He set Apple on a course of being a media distributor as well as a "computer company", and extended that to the cellphone marketplace too. If nobody out there can work with THAT, after it's handed to them on a silver platter? Well, I'm not sure America has any future in tech at all!

    1. Re:This wouldn't be an issue at most companies.... by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1

      I have to side with Jobs himself, on this one. People just need to leave him alone, and stay out of this media crusade to "get to the bottom of what's ailing him".

      This is the Streisand effect in action. The more people scream leave Bri^H^H^H Steve alone, the more people want to know what the big secret is all about.

    2. Re:This wouldn't be an issue at most companies.... by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      I'm curious how the SEC can punish a company for complying with other federal guidelines, such as HIPPA.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    3. Re:This wouldn't be an issue at most companies.... by onecheapgeek · · Score: 1

      They only complied with HIPAA if they said nothing. If Apple had said NOTHING about his health it would be a non-issue. They did say something. The SEC is looking into those public statements were false, whether they were KNOWINGLY false, and whether that was done to keep stock prices up.

    4. Re:This wouldn't be an issue at most companies.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This misses the point entirely. It's obvious by now that Jobs downplayed his illness, and it wasn't an excuse to go on vacation. No company in the post-Gates era is as dependent on its CEO as Apple is on Jobs. He wanted it that way, Apple execs and shareholders wanted it that way, and Mac cultists wanted it that way. Well, here's the downside of having a micromanaging megalomaniac running your company.
      As a shareholder myself, I wish Steve Jobs well. Maybe he was misled by his doctors, but based on what we know about his earlier approach to his cancer, I doubt it. He owes us all a fuller explanation of his illness -- we still don't know a damn thing really -- because of his unique position in a publicly traded corporation.
       

  20. leave steve alone! by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just leave him alone! He's suffered enough, can't you all see that. Just leave the poor guy alone.

    In any case, this SEC thing seems sort of silly. The SEC while it has the power to abusively coerce responses, techincally Jobs is just he CEO, not a golden child. How can his health issues be any more important than those of head of tupperware or American Toyota, who's name you don't know.

    Is it because you know his name that makes his health techincally relevant? Then what about some who's names you do know, like Jack Welch, or Larry Ellison. Should they have been given annual public proctology exams since that's a high cancer risk for men their ages?

    Sure the cult of Steve is an importnat phenomena to apple, but it's not a techincal criteria that I can see. It's not like Apple is somehow misrepresenting it's products or it's book value or it's liabilities to it's shareholders.

    So what does the SEC have to argue here.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:leave steve alone! by MikeDirnt69 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah! What's the problem with a company trying to keep their Jobs?
      Oh, wait...

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      Am I eval()? - http://www.monst3r.com.br
    2. Re:leave steve alone! by BrokenHalo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have nothing to say against Jobs or even particularly against Apple, but if shareholders are so stupid as to throw money into a company on the basis of hype surrounding one personality, I can't say I am overwhelmed with sympathy if they lose every cent.

    3. Re:leave steve alone! by DanTheStone · · Score: 5, Informative

      If Apple's disclosures were an attempt to influence stock prices, then it would matter. The SEC just seems to be watching for fraud like stock manipulation. That is their job, after all.

    4. Re:leave steve alone! by _LORAX_ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Like it or not the stock price is linked to Steves Health. This is for several reasons, none of which the SEC cares too much about.

      If Steve or the board, knowingly, withheld information they knew would have a negative ( or positive ) impact on the stock price would be breaking SEC regs.

      It's not specifically about his health, but the fact that his health has a material effect on the stock price and therefore investors have a right to know enough information to make informed investment decisions. It's one of the basic requirements for a free market.

    5. Re:leave steve alone! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Informative

      I suspect that they are interesting in the possibility that apple lied about jobs' health, not in his health per se. As TFA notes, apple is not obliged to disclose anything about jobs' health; but they decided to do so anyway. If they were lying about it, that would be an issue.

    6. Re:leave steve alone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, are you being serious, or are you just parodying that "leave Britney alone" hoser?

      I honestly can't tell.

    7. Re:leave steve alone! by IcyNeko · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Wrong.

      While Jobs's efforts have saved the company from a downward spiral, that doesn't mean that it's all on him. The executive team has hopefully learned from Jobs such that if he were to go, they could carry on. the concept of a legacy. Stocks should be based on actual production and sales, not on the health of one man. Whomever is driving this needs to not be working anymore, because it's just sensationalism.

      Oh, and Steve Jobs's medical record is protected by HIPAA. So sure, SEC/Stockholders/Media Idiots can moan and whine about wanting to know, but if he chooses not to share it, they won't get it.

      Sure, someone can leak it out. Then that someone will find themselves unemployed and most likely sued into submission.

    8. Re:leave steve alone! by everett · · Score: 1

      I fail to see how information regarding a person's health can in any way be construed as belonging in the public domain. Health care and issues relating to such are about as private as personal information can be. Saying that the stock holder's have a right to know about Steve Jobs' most personal/private happenings is absurd to say the least.

      Therefore, it is my opinion that Apple has no obligation to disclose anything regarding Steve's health, positive or negative, as it is confidential personal information.

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      Sig withheld to protect the innocent.
    9. Re:leave steve alone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed.

      Retirement, illness or falling piano, one way or another, eventually he's going to leave Apple. If his presence is make or break for the company, investors are doing little more participating in a pool to guess the date when it happens so that they can get out just before.

    10. Re:leave steve alone! by mk2mark · · Score: 2, Funny

      LEAVE STEVE-NEY ALONE!!!!!1!!

    11. Re:leave steve alone! by spottedkangaroo · · Score: 2, Informative

      But they *do* have to disclose the fact that there's a significant chance that he'll be stepping down. They don't have to say: he has liver cancer, but they do have to say: he may have to step down because of health problems.

      --
      Imagine if you weren't allowed to use roads because a bus company complained about your driving 3 times. --skunkpussy
    12. Re:leave steve alone! by JBMcB · · Score: 0, Redundant

      I agree with Icy and everett. The people who run companies have no obligation to release the status of their health. If they are physically unable to run the company effectively, they should step down, but that's a matter for the shareholders and the board.

      --
      My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    13. Re:leave steve alone! by mweather · · Score: 1

      How can his health issues be any more important than those of head of tupperware or American Toyota, who's name you don't know.

      Because when THEY get sick, their company's' stock price doesn't plummet.

    14. Re:leave steve alone! by mweather · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While Jobs's efforts have saved the company from a downward spiral, that doesn't mean that it's all on him.

      The parent never claimed it did. He said Apple's stock price is tied to Jobs' health. And it is. Go to Google Finance, look at the news links on Apple's stock charts. You'll see a price drop after any negative story about Jobs' health. Whether Apple would be fine without him or not is completely irrelevant.

    15. Re:leave steve alone! by mweather · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ding, ding ding. We have a winner. Thread over.

    16. Re:leave steve alone! by orlanz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is incorrect.

      The most recent value (not current value) of a company is dependent on "actual production and sales" among other things. The stock price is the net present value of the company as per the consensus of all the buyers and sellers of the stakes in the company. The later is reality, and it actually makes more sense than the former.

      The shareholders, etc. of Apple have no right to Jobs' health records. HIPAA or otherwise. BUT, take this scenario: Jobs puts out that he is sick for 10 days. Rumors fly around and the price drops. He buys up a ton of stock, and then puts out a press release that states that he is in perfect health. The stock shoots up, and he makes a ton. Now, he better be sick those 10 days else, the shareholders have a valid lawsuit for the profits that Jobs made. The fact that his health shouldn't have dropped the stock is a different issue. Same if the scenario was reversed and he (or other parties) shorted.

      The SEC doesn't care about Jobs actual health. They care that the image being presented to the public is factual. He maybe in the hospital a 3rd time for heart surgery, no one needs to know that, but their business continuity plan better have a section about who takes over if he kicks the bucket.

    17. Re:leave steve alone! by mgabrys_sf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      re: medical privacy - correct.

      Problem is they lied and denied his condition. There's a difference between saying nothing - and pushing out misinformation to manipulate stocks. That's a no-no.

    18. Re:leave steve alone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would be particularly boneheaded for anyone in the loop about Steve's real health problems. My guess is anyone at Apple that moved a significant amount of stock in the last year will be looked at by the SEC for insider trading.

    19. Re:leave steve alone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not correct. If you go to google finance, you'll see pretty much random behavoiur after every announcement.

      At the last one, the stock was going down well before he announced his leave, so that cannot be credited for the drop.

    20. Re:leave steve alone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction, the stock price is tied to the "speculation" of Jobs' health. A company doesn't have to comment just because people are trading on speculation.

      I think the issue now is that since Apple decided to comment about his health they're liable if they directly misled shareholders. If they just kept quiet then there would not be an issue.

    21. Re:leave steve alone! by vertinox · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So what does the SEC have to argue here.

      In theory, people who have knowledge of Steve Jobs health have insider trading status.

      Like it or not, the health of Job's does affect the price price.

      If say, Job's doctor diagnoses him with terminal cancer and the doctor calls his broker the next day to short AAPL to kingdom come, then you've got some problem that SEC is very concerned with.

      So the main question is if Apple mislead the public about Job's health in order to manipulate share price. If so, then it is a big deal.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    22. Re:leave steve alone! by vertinox · · Score: 1

      I have nothing to say against Jobs or even particularly against Apple, but if shareholders are so stupid as to throw money into a company on the basis of hype surrounding one personality, I can't say I am overwhelmed with sympathy if they lose every cent.

      To be fair, Steve Jobs did save the company back in early 2000's since most of us in the computer world had written off Apple as on their death bed back then.

      Secondly, he isn't the only company that has such a cult that keeps shareholder's invested. Warren Buffet with Halthway Berkshire (sp?) come's to mind.

      And those are people who pay $150,000 per share.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    23. Re:leave steve alone! by pxuongl · · Score: 1

      investors and money in the stock market doesn't care about people. they only care about profit.

      the same investors who would've chopped the early 90's apple up and sold it for profit are the same people who want to know everything about Jobs so they can get out of the market and make money.

      greed isn't creative.

      greed is near sighted.

      greed is an indiscriminate killer of all things, not just lives.

    24. Re:leave steve alone! by chunkyq · · Score: 1

      it's not a techincal criteria

      The singular form of 'criteria' is 'criterion'.

    25. Re:leave steve alone! by pxuongl · · Score: 1

      so what's next? do all executives for all companies now also have to file quarterly reports on: 1)what they eat 2)how often they sneeze 3)their food allergies 4)how often they exercise 5) etc.... if i were to run a decently profitable business, i'd do everything i could to not trade my company publicly.

    26. Re:leave steve alone! by pxuongl · · Score: 1

      jobs is noticeably thinner than he was a couple years ago.

      i highly doubt Jobs is starving himself to manipulate the stock market

    27. Re:leave steve alone! by LearningHard · · Score: 1

      It isn't about Jobs. It is about insiders selling shares before the announcement while at the same time saying he was fine to prop up the price.

      See http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=AAPL

      It seems very plausible that Jobs held back the announcement (or Apple as a company did). To allow company insiders to divest themselves of a significant number of shares.

    28. Re:leave steve alone! by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      I fail to see how information regarding a person's health can in any way be construed as belonging in the public domain. Health care and issues relating to such are about as private as personal information can be. Saying that the stock holder's have a right to know about Steve Jobs' most personal/private happenings is absurd to say the least.

      Apple is an idea company. Its worth is directly tied to the people who work there. Imagine if you were thinking about investing in a football team. Wouldn't you want to know if the star QB was about to leave because of a known illness? I agree that the particular illness doesn't need to be shared, but the fact that he is ill and may have to leave the company is crucial in your decision to invest or not. This is why SJs health, or lack thereof, is important to investors.

    29. Re:leave steve alone! by rfunches · · Score: 1

      Take a look at the 10-K and you'll find at least one risk factor which applies to Jobs (CEO):

      The Company's success depends largely on its ability to attract and retain key personnel.
      Much of the Company's future success depends on the continued service and availability of skilled personnel, including its CEO, its executive team and key employees in technical, marketing and staff positions. (p. 21, FY 2008 10-K)

      IANASL (securities lawyer) but I find it relevant that the CEO is separated from the term "executive team." To compare, the similar risk factor in Microsoft's 10-K does not even specify specific employees.

    30. Re:leave steve alone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While Jobs's efforts have saved the company from a downward spiral, that doesn't mean that it's all on him.

      He wasn't saying the company depends on him; he was saying the stock price depends on him.

      Stocks should be based on actual production and sales, not on the health of one man.

      I don't think the SEC is thinking in terms of the word "should," except in terms of what should be disclosed to investors.

      Whomever is driving this needs to not be working anymore, because it's just sensationalism.

      "Just sensationalism." Sure. But we're talking about the stock market, where that matters a lot.

    31. Re:leave steve alone! by IcyNeko · · Score: 1

      Apple is a software/hardware company. There's no such thing as an idea company.

    32. Re:leave steve alone! by IcyNeko · · Score: 1

      Hold on a second. Who's manipulating the stocks? Stocks should be based on company output and performance, not on the CEO's health. If anything, it's the people who rate stocks on anything BUT company performance that are manipulating the stocks. Apple's giving a friendly version of the "not your business" protocol.

    33. Re:leave steve alone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with Icy and everett. The people who run companies have no obligation to release the status of their health. If they are physically unable to run the company effectively, they should step down, but that's a matter for the shareholders and the board.

      The shareholders recive the information to make decisions on that matter from Apple. The SEC is ensuring that they received accurate information.

      So, you are basically saying that the company has no obligation to give information necessary to make decisions to the people responsible for making them.

      Do you not see why the SEC might disagree?

    34. Re:leave steve alone! by cyphercell · · Score: 1

      Patent trolls?

      --
      Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
    35. Re:leave steve alone! by CaptCovert · · Score: 2, Informative

      IANAL, but from my understanding of the SEC regulations, it doesn't matter if his health (or the speculation thereof) does actually affect stock price, it only matters if Apple's management thought that it would. Anything that they believe might have an effect on stock price has to be disclosed (whether it does in the end or not). If there is a single e-mail among the management that says anything akin to "Don't tell the shareholders that he's sick, our stock price'll plummet", Apple very well may be in some serious trouble. On the other hand, if they can prove that they had no reason to believe it was an issue that would manipulate stock price, the SEC doesn't have a leg to stand on.

    36. Re:leave steve alone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no such thing as an idea company

      Where do you think those hardware and software products come from? Ideas. Obviously he didn't mean the sole purpose of the company is to make and sell ideas, come on...

    37. Re:leave steve alone! by ppanon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If Apple's disclosures were an attempt to influence stock prices, then it would matter. The SEC just seems to be watching for fraud like stock manipulation. That is their job, after all.

      I would take that more seriously if they hadn't sat on their thumbs for the years that Darl was spouting his garbage about the SCO-IBM case.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    38. Re:leave steve alone! by mgabrys_sf · · Score: 0

      erm - no - you can shut your trap and claim "it's a private matter" - which it most certainly is. OR you can try to send out information that's a flat-out lie to preserve equity in a manipulation scheme. Now, whether that's the intent is up for investigation - but spreading information that is flat out bullshit - instead of, say, shutting the fuck up merits scrutiny. Whose manipulating the stocks? Well, I think the SEC will be looking at the PR flack typing up all those press releases first, and work their way up the food chain.

      Nice corporate apologist tho. Ever thought of going into PR? You're a natural.

    39. Re:leave steve alone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh. People starve themselves to make a lot less on "The Biggest Loser" than Steve J. could by dropping the same pounds.

    40. Re:leave steve alone! by geekmux · · Score: 1

      Like it or not the stock price is linked to Steves Health. This is for several reasons, none of which the SEC cares too much about.

      If Steve or the board, knowingly, withheld information they knew would have a negative ( or positive ) impact on the stock price would be breaking SEC regs.

      It's not specifically about his health, but the fact that his health has a material effect on the stock price and therefore investors have a right to know enough information to make informed investment decisions. It's one of the basic requirements for a free market.

      Once again, I have to look at the bigger picture. Why is it that health records/conditions of CxOs in corporations need to become public record for fear that "withholding information" (also known as Keeping My Private Shit About Me Private) would affect board decisions or stock price THAT much??

      Now we all know for some unexplicable reason the lack of Steve would cause a severe disturbance in the iForce that is Apple, but that still does not excuse the fact that this is a matter of breaking SEC regs at all.

      Should Tom Cruises medical records become public record for fear that entire movie studios might go under, or any top-grossing star for that matter? What about recording artists? God forbid we try and keep track of the health of the average up-and-coming Rock Star.

      Sorry, but this is one of those few times in life that I would gladly exchange the millions for a bit of privacy and decency. What happened to the basic requirement of privacy? The basis or decisions of a company should not rely upon the health of one man. Of course, we're talking about Steve here, the original iYoda.

    41. Re:leave steve alone! by geekmux · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ...Whether Apple would be fine without him or not is completely irrelevant.

      Which is EXACTLY why this should be an irrelevant matter that the SEC should not be involved with. If the stock price goes up or down based on ONE mans health condition, or public knowledge thereof, that's the fault of the company. It certainly isn't the way things work for the other 99% of public corporations out there, so why in the hell should Steve or Apple be under such SEC scrutiny because of an obscenely loyal following?

      Perhaps if the rest of the board would get off it's knees and stop chanting "Hail Steve, Hail Steve", they would be able to make some progress in finding OTHER equally charismatic leaders, since it's rather painfully obvious at this point that a sexy leader is required for them to survive. Guess the other 10,000+ employees don't really count, eh?

    42. Re:leave steve alone! by IcyNeko · · Score: 1

      For immediate release: "Steve Jobs is currently undergoing medical treatment at Princeton Plainsborough Teaching Hospital under the care of Doctor Gregory House. Dr. House has indicated that the diagnosis of Lupus Nephritis is the cause of Mr. Jobs' condition. Further questions may be sent to trashbin@apple.com"

    43. Re:leave steve alone! by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So Apple just manufactures iPods? Actually it's quite the opposite, they don't do any of their own hardware manufacturing and instead come up with the ideas for hardware and farm out their creations to 3rd parties often in China.

      Software is simply the expression of an idea.

      Apple is very much an idea company.

    44. Re:leave steve alone! by IcyNeko · · Score: 1

      That makes M$ an idea company too? And Sony?

    45. Re:leave steve alone! by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      In fact it does. Sony is a bit different in that they don't just rely upon unique ideas to drive their business. They are happy making the $50 DVD player (an old idea at this point) and making small margins on it.

      MS is also very much an idea company, but their ideas are (generally) expected to be more boring or mundane than Apples. They also have a crap load of products and services at this point so that even if one of their prime movers was to leave the company it would hopefully not destroy other parts.

    46. Re:leave steve alone! by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      I think that's both insane and wrong!

      Your claim is that "one man" should not be able to affect any public corporation's stock price? So by that measure, hiring a CEO or firing a CEO should not affect a stock price. Having an excellent CEO should not affect stock price positively, nor should having a terrible CEO affect it negatively. Really??

      Does that REALLY make sense?

      It has less than nothing to do with some misguided sense of caring about the 10,000 strong proletariat workers vice the fatcat bourgeois CEO...

    47. Re:leave steve alone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But did Apple lie? Or did they use the information available to them at the time?

      It seems to me that many people with health problems have had periods in which, although they are receiving medical care, doctors simply haven't yet figured out that there is an additional problem, or what the cause of that problem is.

      However, people seem resistant in this case to the idea that Jobs might not have known how bad his condition was. I'm not sure why; is it because they've been conditioned by experience to believe that if there's a possibility that a company may be lying to them, they probably are? Is it because they are bitter at the possibility of losing stock value? Or do they really think that Jobs must be omniscient?

    48. Re:leave steve alone! by mgabrys_sf · · Score: 1

      re:"It seems to me that many people with health problems have had periods in which, although they are receiving medical care, doctors simply haven't yet figured out that there is an additional problem, or what the cause of that problem is."

      Oh come the fuck on. Get a clue will you? Protein problem? Sounds like he's not getting enough "Power-Shakes". He had a RELAPSE OF CANCER - which required MORE CHEMO - which left him TOO WEAK TO BE ONSTAGE FOR PROLONGED PERIODS - and eventually - IMPACTED HIS LIVER AND NOW IT NEEDS A TRANSPLANT.

      None of this shit would happen in 7 days, and is nowhere in the same league of denials and misdirection. It's actually pretty pathetic as misdirection goes because - as Dan Lyons pointed out - it's akin to a cheating wife denying any misconduct - then saying a meeting took place - then saying some dining took place - then saying it was an old flame etc etc etc.

      Speaking of denial - welcome to the land of. What's the view like? I hear it's super!

    49. Re:leave steve alone! by master5o1 · · Score: 1

      He's only sick because of the recession. Google's already announced that they're laying off jobs.

      --
      signature is pants
    50. Re:leave steve alone! by hkmwbz · · Score: 1
      And that's the point. If he's very sick and needs to step down, they have misled the market into thinking that he will keep going. It doesn't matter what "sick" means. All that matters is whether he will step down, contrary to Apple's claims.

      Someone else posted: "Problem is they lied and denied his condition. There's a difference between saying nothing - and pushing out misinformation to manipulate stocks. That's a no-no."

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    51. Re:leave steve alone! by JamesTheBoilermaker · · Score: 1

      Whether or not Apple's stock _should_ go up or down based on Steve's health is not the issue. The issue is that it does go up or down and if an insider knew that there was going to be an announcement about Jobs taking a leave of absence due to his health and sold their stock before the news came out, that would be insider trading.

    52. Re:leave steve alone! by turd_sandwich · · Score: 1

      Just leave him alone!

      Yeah! Leave Steve Jobs alone! Just.. leave him alone!

      He is just a human! He has artistic visions that he knows are important and user interface guidelines that people should hear about other operating systems! He, he loves his iPhone, ..and he's going through a tough time.

      That Apple stock price didn't skyrocket by itself! He had to build it up himself! He put all those programmers and designers together after scouting and hiring them all. Did you do that?? You didn't do that!

      YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT SOMEONE WHEN YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO DO WHAT THEY'LL DO! YOU HAVE NOT SPENT A MILE WALKING IN HIS SNEAKERS.. or Levi's jeans, or silk cashmere shirt or whatever he wears, BUT YOU KNOW HE'S STYLISH! FUCK YOU, YOU JUDGMENTAL PEOPLE!

      He is dealing with a lot right now. You don't make fun of him! If you wanna make fun of him you are gonna have to go through me. ..and I am tough to go through because I am a pompous Mac fanboy.

      ...leave him alone.

      (with apologies to Seth Green)

    53. Re:leave steve alone! by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

      Have you considered that it may not have been a lie, but giving what they thought was the right information at the time? Later on, it turned out to be false as new information came to light (ie a better diagnosis as Jobs moved from his alternative medicine plan to real doctors).

      Also, consider that Jobs has little to gain personally from this. He's already wealthy enough that changes in share price won't matter too much.

      You're falling afoul of Occam's Razor by adding in the conspiracy theory. The simpler explanation above is more likely.

    54. Re:leave steve alone! by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

      You discount research, prototyping, testing and the entire design process by calling Apple an "ideas company." I could throw in the retail aspect of Apple (physical stores, online stores) as well.

      I can have ideas, but that's a long way from having a shipment of products go to retail.

      Apple are hard to pin down into a single purpose, but they're certainly more than an "ideas company."

    55. Re:leave steve alone! by 644bd346996 · · Score: 1

      It's true that Apple Inc. as a corporation has no obligation to disclose details of the CEO's health, as the corporation doesn't really even have the right to know those details. But when Apple does disclose some details, it is perfectly reasonable to ask whether they're being selective in the details they release, and if so, why.

    56. Re:leave steve alone! by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Problem is they lied and denied his condition.

      Where is the evidence of that? I know there's been plenty of uninformed speculation, but I've not seen any hard evidence.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    57. Re:leave steve alone! by dangitman · · Score: 1

      He had a RELAPSE OF CANCER - which required MORE CHEMO

      Wait - where are you getting this from? There have been no announcements of a cancer relapse, and he hasn't had any chemotherapy that I'm aware of.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    58. Re:leave steve alone! by drsquare · · Score: 1

      If the stock price goes up or down based on ONE mans health condition, or public knowledge thereof, that's the fault of the company.

      Actually, it's the fault of retarded traders. I don't see why the SEC should step in to protect any sheep that walked off a cliff.

    59. Re:leave steve alone! by Meski · · Score: 1

      I think that's both insane and wrong!

      Your claim is that "one man" should not be able to affect any public corporation's stock price? So by that measure, hiring a CEO or firing a CEO should not affect a stock price. Having an excellent CEO should not affect stock price positively, nor should having a terrible CEO affect it negatively. Really??

      Does that REALLY make sense?

      It has less than nothing to do with some misguided sense of caring about the 10,000 strong proletariat workers vice the fatcat bourgeois CEO...

      If you use the charisma of a CEO for a company's benefit, then you must expect the potential loss of that CEO to have a negative effect on the share price. Apple must realise that, just like Apple shareholders do.

    60. Re:leave steve alone! by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      Right--I fully agree with you.

      As I understand it, the point of the investigation is to find whether Jobs misled when he said he was fine, when less than a week later he took a break from the job.

    61. Re:leave steve alone! by mweather · · Score: 1

      The problem is if Apple execs were unaware the effect the perception of Jobs' heath had on the stock price, then they are not fit to run the company. If they're cleared of wrong doing, I'd sell my Apple shares. If they are not cleared, I'd sell my Apple shares.

    62. Re:leave steve alone! by geekmux · · Score: 1

      I think that's both insane and wrong!

      Your claim is that "one man" should not be able to affect any public corporation's stock price? So by that measure, hiring a CEO or firing a CEO should not affect a stock price. Having an excellent CEO should not affect stock price positively, nor should having a terrible CEO affect it negatively. Really??

      Does that REALLY make sense?

      No, the actions of a CEO based on business performance over a reasonable amount of time is what should affect a stock price.

      What it should NOT be based and change rapidly on, is a one mans health report on THAT day.

      Much like your credit score, one does not build it up to over 700 or completely destroy it overnight.

      Steve manages to fart the wrong way, and Apple loses 7% in 2 hours, and the SEC is brought in to investigate who might have smelled it first. Not quite sure I could define What The Fuck any clearer than that.

    63. Re:leave steve alone! by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      No, the actions of a CEO based on business performance over a reasonable amount of time is what should affect a stock price.

      What it should NOT be based and change rapidly on, is a one mans health report on THAT day.

      Much like your credit score, one does not build it up to over 700 or completely destroy it overnight.

      Steve manages to fart the wrong way, and Apple loses 7% in 2 hours, and the SEC is brought in to investigate who might have smelled it first. Not quite sure I could define What The Fuck any clearer than that.

      Still utterly and completely missing the point. Steve Jobs has been "affiliated" with Apple for what, 30 years? As long as there HAS been an Apple? Remember his hiatus and return, followed by the turnaround of Apple? Steve Jobs has time and time again proved that he is a masterful businessman and an able CEO.

      You think it's not big news that he could be leaving Apple permanently or die?

      You're also completely missing the point about the SEC investigation. When Steve Jobs said it was am ere hormone imbalance and was fine, was he telling the truth? That's the question. This is really not a subtle or complicated issue, and if you can't see that Jobs' future with Apple should--and DOES--have a clear impact on the stock price, I'm really not sure what else to say...

    64. Re:leave steve alone! by mgabrys_sf · · Score: 1

      RTFA: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=af4Bdn_Wfx7g&refer=home :

      "A patient getting a liver transplant for a neuroendocrine tumor that has spread from the pancreas might get a partial organ, Brower said. Complete organs that come from cadavers are in short supply, and are generally reserved for patients with liver failure, cirrhosis or certain kinds of liver cancer, he said."

      Cancer - that's actively spreading to the liver - seems to be a very active kind of cancer doncha think? You know what also causes cirrhosis? Chemo. Granted that's speculation - just in the same way I'd speculate a large splat on the ground with human remains next to a tall building was probably the result of someone falling out of the building. But that'd just be speculation. Here's some speculation - why doesn't Apple and Jobs STFU with the memos and let his private life be private? Oh right - the stock might be affected like that splat mark. Better get another memo ready that reads as accurately as one from the Soviets denying health problems for Andropov, Brezhnev and Chernenko aka: the ABC's of dead Russian leaders.

      Hey I know - call Gawker liars again - that's always fun. PR apologists need more fun in their lives. Go nuts.

    65. Re:leave steve alone! by geekmux · · Score: 1

      No, the actions of a CEO based on business performance over a reasonable amount of time is what should affect a stock price.

      What it should NOT be based and change rapidly on, is a one mans health report on THAT day.

      Much like your credit score, one does not build it up to over 700 or completely destroy it overnight.

      Steve manages to fart the wrong way, and Apple loses 7% in 2 hours, and the SEC is brought in to investigate who might have smelled it first. Not quite sure I could define What The Fuck any clearer than that.

      Still utterly and completely missing the point. Steve Jobs has been "affiliated" with Apple for what, 30 years? As long as there HAS been an Apple? Remember his hiatus and return, followed by the turnaround of Apple? Steve Jobs has time and time again proved that he is a masterful businessman and an able CEO.

      You think it's not big news that he could be leaving Apple permanently or die?

      You're also completely missing the point about the SEC investigation. When Steve Jobs said it was am ere hormone imbalance and was fine, was he telling the truth? That's the question. This is really not a subtle or complicated issue, and if you can't see that Jobs' future with Apple should--and DOES--have a clear impact on the stock price, I'm really not sure what else to say...

      Your points and my points are both valid. What I refer to in a logical rest-of-the-world sense is in reference to the other 99% of the business world, and NOT how Apple sheepholders think or act about their almighty iYoda.

      Of course I'm not going to sit here and deny that Steve Jobs health does not affect share price, it obviously does, in a rather obnoxious sort of way that makes Orgs like the SEC release the Pack O' Ethics Hounds on the hunt. My point here is it SHOULD not be this way for ANY organization. Is every single apple in one basket labeled Steve over there?

      As far as Steve telling the truth or not, I find it very hard to believe any part of it is a lie, since he/Apple could have easily STFU about all of it and no one would have been the wiser. He voluntarily chose to disclose this information, most likely to dispel rumors that we likely affecting or going to affect the stock price.

      What amazes me is the sheer fact that the marketing genius that is Apple cannot seem to market their own company beyond the Almighty leader. God knows that Apple is pretty much 20% hardware and software and 80% marketing and fashion sense.

    66. Re:leave steve alone! by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      our points and my points are both valid ... What I refer to in a logical rest-of-the-world sense

      Actually I'm pretty sure our points are mutually exclusive. I continue to disagree with pretty much every single thing you say :p What you say is "logical" seems to really be how you think the world SHOULD operate ... nothing to do with logic.

      Leaders make a difference. You may not like the fact that the actions of one man or one woman can have a profound impact on the actions of hundreds of thousands of other people, but that's life. Apple is clearly not steve jobs alone, but he makes a helluva big difference. There are countless corporations and other business entities whose founders or leaders put an indelible stamp on their operations. Berkshire Hathaway without Warren Buffet? Like or not, that's the reality. You can expouse the virtues of faceless corporate anonymity all you want, but that's partly why there's a difference between Microsoft and Apple.

      As far as Steve telling the truth or not, I find it very hard to believe any part of it is a lie, since he/Apple could have easily STFU about all of it and no one would have been the wiser

      Indeed, I don't think the SEC will find anything either. That's the point of an investigation though, to find the truth.

      You usage terms like "Apple sheepholders" and "iYoda" is just HILARIOUS btw...really skewers those morons!!

    67. Re:leave steve alone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He said he was fine in response to which rumors? If he denied having cancer it's right, after all.

    68. Re:leave steve alone! by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Cancer - that's actively spreading to the liver - seems to be a very active kind of cancer doncha think? You know what also causes cirrhosis? Chemo. Granted that's speculation

      In other words, you're full of shit, and a worthless dirtbag who likes to speculate on the lives of others without any kind of evidence. Good job.

      PR apologists need more fun in their lives. Go nuts.

      Well, it's sad that you need more fun in your life, but perhaps you would be happier if you had not chosen the job of a PR apologist.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    69. Re:leave steve alone! by mgabrys_sf · · Score: 1

      psst - I was referring to you as the PR apologist douchefag. Gosh you're so fucking smart. As smart as a PR apologist in fact.

  21. People Lost Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bottom line, people lost money on the stock. A lot of money. Jobs' cute little comment about his blood pressure at the rollout of the worst laptops they've ever produced followed a couple weeks later by canceling his annual public appearance and then taking a leave is over-the-top. If it was a coincidence while his health was changing, then so be it. But they do need to look at it to make sure that it all wasn't done "intentionally" because, again, people lost money.

    1. Re:People Lost Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EXTREMELY SERIOUS WARNING (printed on a separate page, in red letters on a yellow background): Unless you are as smart as Johann Karl Friedrich Gauss, savvy as a half-blind Calcutta bootblack, tough as General William Tecumseh Sherman, rich as the Queen of England, emotionally resilient as a Red Sox fan, and as generally able to take care of yourself as the average nuclear missile submarine commander, you should never have been allowed near this document. Please dispose of it as you would any piece of high-level radioactive waste and then arrange with a qualified surgeon to amputate your arms at the elbows and gouge your eyes from their sockets. This warning is necessary because once, a hundred years ago, a little old lady in Kentucky put a hundred dollars into a dry goods company which went belly-up and only returned her ninety-nine dollars. Ever since then the government has been on our asses. If you ignore this warning, read on at your peril â" you are dead certain to lose everything youâ(TM)ve got and live out your final decades beating back waves of termites in a Mississippi Delta leper colony.

      So, yeah. People lost money. People loose money *ALL* *THE* FREAKING* *TIME* when they invest. If Steve's health is good, and the stock price goes up, what - are we going to call for an SEC investigation because, you know, the poor investors who shorted Apple stock lost money! A lot of money!

      Boo-hoo.

      They took a risk, they lost this time around. Suck it up and deal with it, and maybe in the future, don't invest in a company where a change in a single person's health can have such an impact. It's called learning - you should try it sometime.

  22. Re:Apple isn't Apple without Steve. by cowscows · · Score: 2

    Have you taken a look at Apple's finances lately? $14 million is a drop in the bucket. As odd as it sounds, for a company of Apple's size, lawsuits dealing with amounts of money similar to that are almost routine. I don't think it had much of an effect.

    --

    One time I threw a brick at a duck.

  23. I wish I had mod points. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You would have gotten a +1 Insightful for that.

  24. Here here! by spiedrazer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is what's wrong with our country. The only thing that matters to anyone is stock price, so now the SEC needs to investigate the timing and details of a CEO health announcement??? How does that have anything to do with the long term outlook of the company. This is the most assinine thing I have ever heard.

    --
    Keep passing the open windows...
    1. Re:Here here! by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Yes because the SEC has done such a bang-up job with its previous "hands off" policy towards corporations.

      Perhaps it's time for the SEC to start being tougher, so we can avoid more dishonest dealings (lies) coming from corporations & avoid yet another collapse.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    2. Re:Here here! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they should investigate the banks then.

      Not a company that is making $5b profit a year and hasn't lost massive amounts of money gambling.

    3. Re:Here here! by pxuongl · · Score: 1

      the problem is with what the stock market's evolved into.

      originally, the stock market is there for people to invest in companies and to participate in its success

      what the stock market is now are millions of day traders who care nothing about the company they're investing in, and are staring at stock tickers, waiting to profit off of intra-day price changes.

    4. Re:Here here! by coolsnowmen · · Score: 1

      I am LMAO at the idea that missing the signs to investigate Madoff somehow means they should toughen up on Health releases. That is a bit of a leap don't you think. The Madoff scheme means you nead to investigate if reported earning are real, and reported investments actually exist, not whether they lied about Jobs health.

      Even if you wrap the mortgage induced crisis into your comment, that would only lead to what the true value of things is. That logic would value Job's health even less because he is not a tangible product or service of the company.

    5. Re:Here here! by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      The following are facts:

      • Steve Jobs health is perceived to be connected to the long term health of the company.
      • Free markets require the participants to have accurate information to work well. Corporations aren't allowed to lie about things that actually affect their value significantly, capitalism just can't work like that.
      • It's possible to credibly accuse Apple of playing fast and loose with the facts around Jobs' health. Thus it's entirely correct that the SEC investigates. This is not what is wrong with America or capitalism - this is what's right: a ready supply of accurate information is valued. Apple doesn't get a free pass with the truth just because it's a mans health we're talking about. If people make bad investment decisions based on half truths, that's bad for them too!
    6. Re:Here here! by theaveng · · Score: 1

      The reason Madoff's scheme lasted so long was because, like Jobs, he had developed a "can do no wrong" persona wall street. Perhaps if the SEC of 2004 (overly trusting) had been more like the SEC of 2009 (skeptical and quick to investigate), Madoff would have been stopped earlier when his scheme was only Millions of dollars in size instead of billions.

      I don't see any harm in the SEC at least *looking* at the situation. Better to be cautious than to say five years later, "Ooops, we dropped the ball."

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    7. Re:Here here! by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it's time for the SEC to start being tougher, so we can avoid more dishonest dealings (lies) coming from corporations & avoid yet another collapse.

      Yes, but why start here, of all places? It's completely bizarre.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  25. Re:Apple isn't Apple without Steve. by hobbit · · Score: 1

    I'm just saying: there's no indication on the graph that stocks tanked more when Jobs' health concerns surfaced.

    --
    "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
  26. Ethical Question: SHOULD HE EVEN GET A LIVER? by wisebabo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So, let's say Jobs needs (I guess his doctors would decide if he needed it) a liver. Where does he get it? I mean, in the U.S., the scarce organs available for transplant are decided (I think) by some medical board that determines the medical usefulness(?) of the organ to the patient. That is, will it help the patient live a substantially longer, healthier life.

    I don't think that they take into consideration the person's wealth or any other measure of that person's *value* to society. So, even if billions of dollars of market capitalization are at stake and millions of customers depend on his brilliance, he may be turned down for say, a 16 year old girl who has her whole life in front of her. I could be wrong though, there may be some provision for "importance" to society. Anybody know the answer? (Of course the medical board's answer may be different from what you think it should be!)

    Now, living as I do in a third world country, I can see how Jobs could easily fly here and "procure" one if he needed it. (I'm not saying that he'd take one from a living person of course, just that he would get bumped up to the front of the line). Wouldn't look too good for Apple's image to so openly go around the American system but he would save his life (and presumably Apple). I'm afraid to say that as an Apple fanboy I'd rather him do that than die.

    1. Re:Ethical Question: SHOULD HE EVEN GET A LIVER? by the_humeister · · Score: 2, Informative

      UNOS is the organization that oversees regional organ procurement and donor rules. If he were to be put on the list, he shouldn't be given any special treatment.

    2. Re:Ethical Question: SHOULD HE EVEN GET A LIVER? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2, Informative

      Public organ transplants are handled by UNOS in the United States. He is put on a waiting list. For the most part, UNOS is non-discriminatory: Wealth, fame, etc play no part in where on the list a person ends up. He moves up and down the list based on medical factors like likelihood to survive, likelihood of a match. Patients that are more likely to survive and have rarer matches are moved up. In the particular case of liver transplants, alcoholics who refuse to quit drinking are moved down, for example. In terms of donation, organ sales are illegal in the US and most of Europe. A donor (or their family) can request that the organs be targeted to a specific person.

      As for private donations and third world countries, Jobs' wealth may help him. They do not help him with UNOS. Unfortunately, organ sales as you describe it is not illegal in all countries.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    3. Re:Ethical Question: SHOULD HE EVEN GET A LIVER? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Ask David Crosby.

    4. Re:Ethical Question: SHOULD HE EVEN GET A LIVER? by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 4, Informative
      As someone who has recently been involved in transplant cases (doing psych evals of the potential recipients) here's a bit of what I learned (this might just be true at my particular hospital).
      1. Preference is given to people who demonstrate that they will be able to maintain the new organ after transplant. People with good social networks (or a lot of money to hire full time nursing care) are far less likely to be rejected.
      2. Age generally is not factored in (a lot of transplants fail within 10 years anyway) unless the patient is very young or very old. The thing about a transplant is that it generally won't let someone live a normal life, just a better and longer one.
      3. The parent is correct about the "usefulness" of the organ. If the team of doctors don't think it will significantly improve quality of life, they won't do it.
      4. Money is a factor. If someone like Steve Jobs can pay for a transplant out of pocket without dealing with insurance, he could move up the list just because there is no need to wait for insurance bureaucracy.
      5. Most of the waiting comes from waiting for a good "match." If someone has a family member or friend who wants to donate, then they go ahead with the donation process (after extensive medical and psychological testing, at least that's the way it's done at major hospitals). With livers, people can donate a piece of their liver although it's much more common to have a standard transplant from a deceased donor.

      Basically, much of what the parent said was correct. However, money can influence the process (I'm not talking about bribing, which is both unethical and illegal). Other than some serious psychological issues and/or a history of non-compliance with medical care, there is very little that disqualifies people from transplantation. A lot of it comes down to the "lottery" of finding an organ match. Steve probably would get some preferential treatment though.

    5. Re:Ethical Question: SHOULD HE EVEN GET A LIVER? by ChrisA90278 · · Score: 1

      I mean, in the U.S., the scarce organs available for transplant are decided (I think) by some medical board that determines the medical usefulness(?)

      I think Steve can afford an airplane ticket to someplace outside the US. I think in China the process is different then here. They simply find a prisoner and schedule an execution.

      Not saying he'd go to China but a person with his money has many options

    6. Re:Ethical Question: SHOULD HE EVEN GET A LIVER? by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      I can see it now.. the board of doctors, sitting around a conference table, looking at a list of names.. Then looking at their shiny laptops, and their iPhones, and moving a page from the bottom to the top of the stack.

      Actually, really curious is what would happen if the President of VP of the US needed a transplant?

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    7. Re:Ethical Question: SHOULD HE EVEN GET A LIVER? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      So, let's say Jobs needs (I guess his doctors would decide if he needed it) a liver. Where does he get it?

      From a census taker, of course. Jobs can eat his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

    8. Re:Ethical Question: SHOULD HE EVEN GET A LIVER? by DreadPiratePizz · · Score: 1

      They also take into account the seriousness of the situation. If you are in dire circumstances, you will be higher on the transplant list. Things like drugs and alcohol use are also considered, and they do not typically give livers to those whose livers were damaged by excessive alcohol use.

    9. Re:Ethical Question: SHOULD HE EVEN GET A LIVER? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      (I'm not saying that he'd take one from a living person of course, just that he would get bumped up to the front of the line)

      More like a living person would get bumped off. (And Jobs's value to society is very little. Unless he is working on the iRocket, which will divert the imminent asteroid strike, all the while playing sweet, sweet music)

    10. Re:Ethical Question: SHOULD HE EVEN GET A LIVER? by mindstormpt · · Score: 2, Funny

      Obviously a whole legion of Apple fanboys will commit suicide so their liver can live on inside Jobs. And as he does not need to pay anyone, it's all good.

    11. Re:Ethical Question: SHOULD HE EVEN GET A LIVER? by dangitman · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid to say that as an Apple fanboy I'd rather him do that than die.

      Couldn't a fanboy just donate their own liver to Jobs?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  27. Wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A person's health is a private matter if it doesn't interrupt, influence or diminish the company's goals.

    I help run a small company and if I'm sick, 33-50% of the company is effectively offline.

    Jobs, or Apple, or both, were in the wrong in how they handled this and the INVESTORS should not suffer because the guys at the top want to keep the stock artificially inflated.

    If Apple or any company or individual C level employee wants to be private, they can not be publicly funded corporation.

  28. Mac World by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm a PC.

    Not like the rest, the others. Everyone around me. I was at odds with my society and knew it early since birth. Unlike them, I did not "Think Different!"--the mantra of the Macs around me, the phrase on all the billboards in the city that served as a reminder to its citizenry. Sameness pervaded the essence of my being and no amount of self-conditioning I did could change that. Eventually, I gave up and isolated myself emotionally from society.

    I gaze at the faces going by, the white earphones contrasting their black turtlenecks, connecting their ears to their pockets, their blank faces engrossed in hip Indie rock music and various garage bands. I envied them for their perfection against my flaws and my compulsive nature to expand, to burden my life with troubles instead of remaining, like them, simple and easy to deal with. The grandest of virtues, simplicity... the philosophy by our loyal benefactor Steve Jobs, who descended from the heavens, creating the Earth, the iron, the wind and the rain. Steve Jobs, who defined the parameters of existence, the one who set about the patterns of reality, the constants, the variables. He who made gravity, electromagnetic energy, and shaped atomic structures and brought forth motion. From these things, he crafted the elements, processed them, refined them, and from these things engineered Apple products through the purity of his mind. Each Apple product was individually crafted by his own hands with the programming code used to run each device having being compiled in his brain and uploaded to each device telepathically, breathing life and perfection into each and every unit.

    Except, it seems, for me, for I was not among the many. I was a PC. They were Macs. I've always been a cold, stiff person. I got by, disguising myself by keeping my non-Ipod music player safely out of sight, which I use because of my depraved nature demanding more functionality than the simple and easy-to-use Ipods have to offer... In the safety of my own home, behind locked doors, I ran a Forbidden, a contraband computer from more depraved, earlier days that was not given the love and blessing of being birthed by Steve Jobs. I dual booted, out of the great sin of curiosity-- curiosity, a shameful value of a PC, as curiosity has no place where simplicity matters most--using two of the great unutterable blasphemies-- something called "Windows Vista" and something else called "Linux." Although, as I mentioned before, although my tendency to be a PC and towards conformity has always been inherent to me, I was truly transformed when I found these old things in a hidden cache of computer parts predating The Purging. Perhaps the greatest sin of all, the single evil that, if discovered, would damn me forever, was the fact that my mouse had more than one button.

    As I walked on among the Macs on the streets, passing the Starbuckses as I went along, I wondered how it all came to this. I glanced at The Holy Marks on the foreheads as the people wandered down the streets, the Bitten Apple tattooed on all our of us at birth, and wondered if, perhaps, there could be something more to life. But again, this was a PC's thought, and not, like everyone elses', a Mac's. We were to hold ourselves to the philosophy of Steve Jobs--so as his products were designed for idiots, so too were we to be idiots. But I was not a Mac--I was not an idiot. I was simply too complicated to be a worthwhile person.

    Nature called. I found a nearby public iPoo--squeaky clean and shining white, things weren't all bad--and let myself go, expelling the waste that had accumulated inside me. After relieving myself and committing the overly-complicated and thus illegal act of wiping my ass (I did not flush as iPoos, designed to be idiot-proof, did not flush) I left and once again wandered the streets aimlessly, hoping to find some meaning in a world where I simply did not belong, a world where if my true nature was discovered, I would be endlessly persecuted by smug, self-righteous sons of bitches.

    1. Re:Mac World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude! You're getting a Dell!

  29. Re:Correct link by Duradin · · Score: 0, Troll

    Ahh FOSS zealots, gotta love you guys. Without your ilk the year of the linux desktop might have already happened. Carry on spreading your ill will against anyone that doesn't march in lockstep with you. All your enemies just love seeing you piss off (and piss on) any potential allies.

  30. Crossing the line by itsdapead · · Score: 1

    I think this crosses the line. What next? Should companies publish regular updates on their CEO's blood pressure and cholesterol level so that shareholders can properly assess the odds of him popping an artery just before a crucial rights issue? Should we be told about their mother's cancer history? Heck, even if Jobs were perfectly healthy, he might wake up tomorrow and decide its time to chuck it all in and buy that armadillo ranch in Zambia that he's always dreamed of - perhaps the shareholders need to know his retirement plans in detail?

    If it is your judgement that a particular firm is completely reliant on the personality of their CEO then that's really all you need to know before investing: all men are mortal.

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    1. Re:Crossing the line by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      Should companies publish regular updates on their CEO's blood pressure and cholesterol level so that shareholders can properly assess the odds of him popping an artery just before a crucial rights issue?

      I believe the SEC's position is that yes, those things should be disclosed to everyone IF they're being disclosed to anyone. And if Jobs himself happens to be one of the stockholders, then it gets really interesting.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    2. Re:Crossing the line by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      And if Jobs himself happens to be one of the stockholders, then it gets really interesting.

      Got that Steve? You're not allowed to drop dead unless you're standing on stage at the AGM - and no naughty gentle breaking of bad news to your loved ones before it is publicly announced. Actually, fuck medical ethics, the markets are at stake: your doctors should report directly to the shareholders, not you.

      Methinks (unless they've actually intercepted a phone call from the ER saying "Aaahhhggg! Short... APPL... [croak!]") the SEC should get a sense of perspective and go and harrass some investment bankers instead.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    3. Re:Crossing the line by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      Got that Steve? You're not allowed to drop dead unless you're standing on stage at the AGM - and no naughty gentle breaking of bad news to your loved ones before it is publicly announced. Actually, fuck medical ethics, the markets are at stake: your doctors should report directly to the shareholders, not you.

      I get the point: yes, human freedom and dignity are threatened here. That's bad.

      But we're not just talking a person or even a business. We're talking about a publicly-traded corporation, a system that we as a society had already decided to heavily regulate before Steve Jobs was even born, and certainly before he owned even a penny's worth of stock.

      When you decide to play that game, either by taking a leadership role in a corporation or by buying a significant amount of stock (and apparently Jobs has done both, further opening possibilities of conflicting interest), you consent to the rules. I wouldn't say it's as dramatic as a Faustian bargain, but there some micro-deal-with-the-devil there. If you don't want to subject yourself to this possibly-inhumane treatment, then you don't have to: run a sole proprietorship out of your garage, instead. Don't sell out.

      Suppose I have a friend who, over a couple of beers, tells me a secret tidbit about a business he works at. In a free society, our private communications are private and it's ridiculous to think that's anyone's business but our own. But if that business is a public-traded corporation and I'm going to make a killing by selling/buying stock to/from other less-informed investors, a lot of people would be screaming at SEC to "do something" about me and my friend.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    4. Re:Crossing the line by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      When you decide to play that game, either by taking a leadership role in a corporation or by buying a significant amount of stock you consent to the rules.

      I didn't think the law could enforce unconscionable rules or contracts (pardon me if I haven't used the correct legal term: I'm talking about the "can't sell yourself into slavery" concept).

      Also, the people responsible for enforcing other heavily-regulated areas of life (like that thing about not killing, raping and robbing people) seem to cope with the concept that there is a limit to what can be done in the name of regulation, even to the point of having to let an almost-but-not-quite-certainly-bad-guy go from time to time.

      Of course, the integrity of publicly traded corporations is vastly more important than mere human life.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  31. I'm glad the SEC worries about a CEO's health... by macwhizkid · · Score: 2, Funny
    instead of, say, investigating alleged Ponzi schemes,

    Having said that, I'd have to admit that I'm very much opposed to disclosing information about any company at the expense of one's personal health privacy. That has the potential for setting all sorts of uncomfortable precedents at "for profit" corporations.

    Let's face it, Wall Street isn't exactly a model for ethical behavior. I'd have a hard time being convinced that the SEC or shareholders should be involved in anyone's personal health at anything more than the actuarial statistics level.

  32. Flamebait, NOT! by mlwmohawk · · Score: 0, Troll

    A few days ago I was modded "flamebait" for saying he's dying and he knows it, because who announces that they are, in fact, healthy despite appearances.

    Now we hear he needs a liver transplant. Sorry, he knew his condition, he knows he's dying. Pancreatic cancer is no joke, and the treatment is harsh.

    While I do seriously feel for Mr. Jobs, I think he is being irresponsible to the employees and stock holders of Apple. Information should come sooner rather than later and as honest as possible. Maybe he's in denial, who knows, but he has a responsibility to make sure Apple continues regardless of his presence. Denying his condition is not a solution.

    So, for you people who feel you need to mod me flame bait because I state my opinion which may or may not be politically correct, do what you will.

    1. Re:Flamebait, NOT! by theredshoes · · Score: 1

      He is probably not denying his condition he just wants to stay within a sense of normalcy. I think he was being pretty responsible. He left the company and he plans to come back in the summer. Beyond that if it were me, I would keep things as quiet as possible too. Just my two cents.

    2. Re:Flamebait, NOT! by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      I mostly agree, but the previous denial as a "hormone imbalance" was totally irresponsible.

    3. Re:Flamebait, NOT! by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      Well, technically, insulin is a hormone.

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    4. Re:Flamebait, NOT! by mlwmohawk · · Score: 1

      Well, technically, insulin is a hormone.

      That's exactly the point isn't it? I didn't have a stroke, I had a minor blood circulation issue in the head.

      A lie of omission is still a lie, in fact, I'd say it is a worse type of lie.

    5. Re:Flamebait, NOT! by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Why? How do you know he didn't have a hormone imbalance?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  33. Simple... by mario_grgic · · Score: 1

    They will just clone him and harvest the liver. Or perhaps it would be better to let the clone take over.

    --
    As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
  34. Yeah, right! by mangu · · Score: 2, Funny

    Because anyone would do fine as Apple's CEO...

  35. Bad information by forgoil · · Score: 1

    Look at all the predictions when it comes to Apples products, and then see how many of them are actually true. Remove the people who actually just happen to guess right (they usually have other, incorrect, guesses as well), and you'll end up with precious few. And we can't be sure even they knew, but rather guessed one way or another.

    So, why, should I give a damn about what the same people are guessing regarding Steve Jobs? The man owes me nothing and I will leave him alone regarding all personal issues.

    All the lying "journalists" on the other hand...

  36. CAN he even get a liver? by SirGarlon · · Score: 1

    There is a more pressing and immediate question: Can a matching donor be found in time to make the transplant effective? Once the match is found, then the next question is whether any other patients are compatible with it and could be saved by it. Only then does the question come down to "who gets it?"

    A lot of transplant patients die waiting for a donor. That's not necessarily because anyone was "ahead of them in line." It's at least as likely that none of the (regrettably few) organs donated during their lifetimes matched their needs.

    --
    [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
  37. Steve Job's Personal Heath?! by ITJC68 · · Score: 1

    What business is it of an investor or anyone other then his immediate family about his personal health? The answer is no ones and now someone had the brain child to want to start an investigation into whether there were any "misleading" information. I could see this if he were say "The President of the United States" but not the CEO of Apple!!! Leave the man alone and if you want to sell of your shares of Apple because of news of speculation of his health then feel free to do so. But don't try to hold the company liable for withholding information. They should and should from here out tell anyone who inquires to read the HIPA regulations. Sorry but this sort of stuff just borders insanity IMHO. Apple will go on even if Steve leaves.

  38. Apple's response: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "We're not lying, just very very optimistic!"

  39. Obscene waste of SEC resources by calstraycat · · Score: 1

    Well, isn't that rich. We are in an economic crisis which was caused, in part, by the SEC being deliberately asleep-at-the-wheel. Now they are going to redeem themselves by appeasing a bunch of whiners who wouldn't be satisfied if Steve Jobs published all of his health records online.

    Investors and would-be investors know absolutely everything they need to know. Steve Jobs had cancer and, as such, will likely die at an age lower than the national average. He is sick again. So sick that he's taking six months off work.

    That's all you need to know.

    If you currently own stock and think that the loss of Steve Jobs as CEO will cause the stock price to drop, you should sell your shares now. If you believe Apple will continue thrive without him, then you should hold your position.

    If you are not a current stockholder, you should decide which of the above you believe and invest your money accordingly.

    That's it.

    If you feel you need to know more about the Steve Jobs' health, you are f*#%ing soulless ghoul.

  40. Re:And to expand... by vertinox · · Score: 1

    Replacing a CEO and naming a CEO has to be considered insider knowledge by the SEC rules.

    So its not just APPL, but any company who uses replacement of the CEO to purposely manipulate stock price. Say the board of directors are going to fire a CEO but if they with hold that knowledge from the public, then that raises some problems.

    Same thing here except its about health issues.

    --
    "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
    -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
  41. Bloomberg is irresponsible by NeXTLoop · · Score: 1

    Bloomberg DID NOT say that Jobs is considering a liver transplant. They quoted some doctor in Georgia, WHO HAS NEVER SEEND JOBS, as saying that its POSSIBLE for cases like Jobs' to lead to a liver transplant. Come on people!!! Is this the era of "who cares about truth... let me spew every possibility known to man without any proof" journalism??? If this is the new standard in journalism... they've relegated themselves to tabloid writers.

  42. science to its rightful place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "We will restore science to its rightful place, and wield technology's wonders to raise health care's quality and lower its cost."

    You know had Dubya not raped science, Jobs could have now just eaten a pill and grown a new liver inside him or something. Bigger penises for all of us too..

  43. Re:Correct link by abigor · · Score: 1

    What an idiotic thing to say.

  44. Bullshit x 1000000 by gig · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This story is complete bullshit. The implication's that SEC rules have been broken is bullshit. The Bloomberg story that is referred to has already been widely debunked as complete and utter bullshit. Using a person's health as an investment talking point is bullshit ... you have no idea what the state of his health is, you have no idea how that will affect the state of his health in the future, and further, you have no idea what the effect on Apple would be no matter what the outcome.

    What makes this even worse is that any self-respecting nerd knows full well that Mr. Jobs above all other people in the tech industry has imbued his company with its own self-sustaining and unique culture. He could announce that he is taking up sailing like most billionaires and no longer has time to work at Apple and there will still be people at Apple trying to figure out how to remove more buttons from all of their products. There would still be customers because there will still be creative people who need fonts that work and color management you can rely on and a full pro audio subsystem, and Web developers who want to run Apache/PHP/Photoshop, and there would still be poseurs who buy only for the logo and teh shiny. In other words, you have to be truly ignorant of computing to think that Steve Jobs has been sitting in a room at Apple drawing up MacBook Airs on a napkin and that the whole thing would grind to a halt without him.

    Plus, Apple has a huge lead in 21st century computing that everyone would love to have. Google, Nokia, Palm, and Blackberry all use Apple's WebKit as their Web rendering engine ... MPEG-4 is a standardization of Apple's QuickTime format ... the iPod has 75% market share. Right now many people outside Apple are just beginning to use stuff that Apple has been expert at for years. It is obvious they are the only organization with the technology and expertise to do a proper tablet, which is just an iPod touch HD. All that is required is to complete the resolution-independent user interface, which Mac OS X has had in developer preview mode since 2004.

    The smart investor is buying Apple stock right now. They are so undervalued because investors don't understand how to read the subscription accounting that is done for the iPhone.

    1. Re:Bullshit x 1000000 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your check is in the mail.

    2. Re:Bullshit x 1000000 by Dhalka226 · · Score: 1

      He could announce that he is taking up sailing like most billionaires and no longer has time to work at Apple and there will still be people at Apple trying to figure out how to remove more buttons from all of their products. There would still be customers because there will still be creative people who need fonts that work and color management you can rely on and a full pro audio subsystem, and Web developers who want to run Apache/PHP/Photoshop, and there would still be poseurs who buy only for the logo and teh shiny.

      And the stock would still plummet.

      As I said in a previous post, when you invest you're actually betting on the actions of other investors. How many times have we seen a company make $0.90/share profits and drop like a stone because investors expected it to be $0.92? I've even seen some things where a stock beats their estimates, but not as much as people were expecting it to. And drops hard. What a company is doing financially is only useful investment information in that it typically gives you a glimpse into what other investors may be doing before they do it.

      Steve Jobs is Apple. He was there, they were okay; he left, they dropped like a stone. He came back, the company is stronger than ever. Random Dude off the street knows it, Investment Guru B knows it, Huge Brokerage House Q knows it. Doesn't mater if his influence is ultimately overstated. If you hold Apple stock when Jobs leaves, you're going to lose a lot of money.

      Maybe you make it back later. When "later" is is up to anybody's guess. It could literally take years for investors to become comfortable enough in the company sans Jobs to begin putting money back in. After all, people could easily rationalize it to be leftover success from the Jobs era or even leftover product development from him for quite some time before they start to have to say "yeah, okay, I guess Apple is fine without him."

      Ultimately the stock should be okay, but nobody knows when that will be. If I know the stock is going to plummet when he quits or anything happens to him--and I do--then you'd better believe his health status is relevant to my investment decision, and if people are lying about his health to protect their stock prices they're performing illegal acts. If Jobs wants to say "none of your business, buzz off," that's his call (and the stock will go down--just like it did--and he'll be essentially forced to say something, just like he was). But nobody gets to lie (I have no idea whether or not that is the case), and if I have money in his stock and reason to believe I'll lose it based on his health, then using that information to make a decision is absolutely not bullshit.

      The smart investor is not buying Apple stock right now. The smart investor is buying Apple stock when something happens with Jobs and the stock hits the bottom. Then you jump in for a bargain on a company that seems to have good potential going forward. Investing now sets you up for a loss, seemingly in the not-too-distant future.

      (Disclaimer: I do not invest in Apple, nor do I have any money anywhere in the stock market, nor am I considering investing in Apple or any stocks at this moment.)

  45. I'm worried about the SEC's health... by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    They seem to have a serious condition of having their head up their ass.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  46. Yeah, the SEC looking out for you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The SEC are right on top of things, like that Bernie Madoff thing. Yep, they're crack investigators who make sure the investor is protected from evil shenanigans.

  47. Re:Correct link by KasperMeerts · · Score: 1

    What a great rebuttal.

    --
    As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields.
  48. Monty Python and the Holly Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jobs, "I want to go to the hospital now please".

    Apple Exec, "Shut up you're feeling fine".

    Paramedic, "We got a call from some one named Steve Jobs?"

    Apple Exec, "No Steve Jobs here".

    Jobs, "I feel sick".

    Apple Exec, "You feel fine."

    Paramedic, "Are you sure he's not sick?"

    Apple Exec, "He keeps complaining about his liver, he's a drinker, wink wink nudge nudge."

    Jobs, "I'm dying."

    Apple Exec, "You're not dying the stock report doesn't come out for a week."

    Paramedic, "Sure I shouldn't take a look?"

    Apple Exec, "Just a hang over. I'll give him a couple of aspirin and he'll be right as rain."

    Jobs, "I can see a light."

    Apple Exec, "Don't you dare go into the light until after the board meeting."

    Jobs falls over dead.

    Paramedic, "He looks dead to me?"

    Apple Exec, "Naw he's just resting. 10,000 volts and he'll be fine. Happens all the time."

  49. MPEG-4 - invented by Apple? by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 2, Informative

    MPEG-4 is a standardization of Apple's QuickTime format

    From Apple's MPEG-4 page:

    MPEG-4 was defined by the Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG), the working group within the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) that specified the widely adopted, Emmy Award-winning standards known as MPEG-1 and MPEG-2. Hundreds of researchers around the world contributed to MPEG-4, which was finalized in 1998 and became an international standard in 2000 and included in QuickTime in 2002.

    I hope you did more research for the rest of the 'facts' in your post.

    --
    There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    1. Re:MPEG-4 - invented by Apple? by sribe · · Score: 3, Informative

      I hope you did more research for the rest of the 'facts' in your post.

      He was correct. MPEG-4 did adopt the QuickTime storage format. It was huge news at the time, because Microsoft had been pushing hard to have the committee adopt their proposal, and was quite upset that they lost out to Apple. I think the quote you referenced was simply referring to Apple adding support for the complete standard, codecs and all that.

    2. Re:MPEG-4 - invented by Apple? by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      He was correct. MPEG-4 did adopt the QuickTime storage format.

      No, he was not correct. Saying "MPEG-4 is a standardization of Apple's QuickTime format" is deceptive.

      A more accurate way of putting it would be "The container format for MPEG-4 was based up on the container format for quicktime"

      MPEG-4 is far more than MPEG-4 Part 14.

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
  50. Class action and my 2 cents by mikebrittain · · Score: 1

    I'll be looking forward to that class action lawsuit that will take 5 years to put together and eventually result in a check for $0.02 that will cost more to mail than it's worth. The ultimate winner: USPS.

  51. Re:Correct link by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

    The rebuttal matched the quality of the point, sadly.

  52. Say What? by ratboy666 · · Score: 1

    Webkit comes from KHTML.

    MPEG-4 is a "group effort". Patent holders include Apple, Philips, Mitsubishi, Samsung, Sharp, France Telecom, and SUN, in the US and other countries.

    As to the 75% iPod figure -- only if you remove cell phones with mp3 capability from consideration... I would say that it's arguable that someone like Nokia may be the #1 leader in portable media players.

    Just sayin' -- careful with your backing examples. The world IS larger than Apple.

    Apple means polish, and, in the eyes of MANY, Steve Jobs embodies the qualities needed to keep that polish shiny. Apple IS "teh shiny". Now, I have had issues with Apple in the (distant) past, but I just bought my wife (turning in Geek badge now) an iPhone, and will be getting a "Mac Mini" soon to run teh shiny iTunes on.

    --
    Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
  53. Re:I'm glad the SEC worries about a CEO's health.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So your point, along with many above and below, is that since SEC was inactive in the past it should just give up regulating and watching? This is nonsense. That is like saying, that since OJ Simpson got off due to a LAPD foul up that LAPD should stop investigating crimes and collecting evidence. Its a government body, I expect them to investigate everything, as my tax money funds their operation.

    However going towards the health issue at hand. The problem is that as a shareholder, you are entitled to information which steers the company's stock price. Health wouldn't be at question at a company such as Microsoft, since it is not so heavily influenced and guided by a single man. Meaning if Paul Allen were to die from cancer, tomorrow, than there is a known plan of secession. Just as there was while Gates was in the company. Apple is heavily ego-centric (I loath Apple and Microsoft equally, I prefer my companies Canonical in nature ;) ), meaning that Apple is de-facto Job's Company Inc. He has full impact on day-to-day operations all the way towards broad company focus. Further Apple keeps any contingency plans (i.e. who takes over if Steve dies tomorrow) as a trade secret. And simply informs its shareholders, that it knowns what its doing and that it has a plan.

    Another way to look at it is to think of Apple as Cuba, and the shareholders are the citizens. Once Fidel (er Jobs) dies, than the nit-wit brother takes helm (much like Sculley in the past) and without a focused direction drives the whole country into the ground. Now as a citizen of Cuba you would feel entitled to know what is going on, because unlike Cuba, you have the decision of leaving the island if you do not feel that its course is sound.

  54. Re:I'm glad the SEC worries about a CEO's health.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Paul Allen = Steve Ballmer (CEO) my apologies to the Ballmer family for playing down their role.

  55. Sigh! The age old fallacy by CaptainZapp · · Score: 1
    Not that I disagree that the SEC did a dreadful job in a lot of respects, but:

    Bernie Maddoff was reviewed by these guys

    And they found nothing wrong

    So it's OK to shoplift since the other guy is a bank robber?

    --
    ich bin der musikant

    mit taschenrechner in der hand

    kraftwerk

  56. Would he take a meat-eater's liver? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He's a pretty strict vegan, no?

  57. This is too funny by codifus · · Score: 1

    Madoff makes off with billions under the SECs watch and they decide to review Apple's protection of Jobs health. Bet that cost a pretty nickel, huh?