Slashdot Mirror
Rescued Banks Sought Foreign Help During Meltdown
theodp writes "An AP review of visa applications has found that major US banks sought permission to bring thousands of foreign workers into the country under the H-1B visa program, even as the banking system was melting down and Americans were being laid off. The dozen banks now receiving the biggest rescue packages, totaling more than $150 billion, requested visas for more than 21,800 foreign workers over the past six years. (It's not known how many of these were granted; the article notes 'The actual number is likely a fraction of the... workers the banks sought to hire because the government only grants 85,000 such visas each year among all US employers.') The American Bankers Association blamed the US talent pool for forcing the move, saying they couldn't find enough Americans capable of handling sales, lending, and bank administration. The AP has filed FOIA requests to force the US Customs and Immigration Service to disclose further details on the bailed-out banks' foreign hires."
...people turn to protectionism. No news there.
The American Bankers Association blamed the US talent pool for forcing the move, saying they couldn't find enough Americans capable of handling sales, lending, and bank administration.
They're just copying well the tactics of others.
What the above paragraph really means is they couldn't find enough Americans capable of the job, who were willing to take less pay than average, so their costs would be less, and their profit margins would be more.
For the purposes of their requests, people who want to be paid somewhere near the market price for their services aren't suitable candidates capable of the job.
Retreats at luxury spas, buying private jets, handing out billions in "retention bonuses" when there are 10's of thousands out of work in the finance industry and the companies are asking for a taxpayer bailout. Then they repay those same taxpayers by trying to hire foreigners to replace them.
It's obvious to everyone outside Wall St. that these people just don't get it. Entitlement has become so entrenched it's a way of life for them.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
This just smacks of wanting to use cheap labor so the pigs at the top can continue to feed at the trough.
... were also looking for the cheapest labour they could get.
I'm suspecting that you'll also find that those were the banks handing out the biggest bonuses for their executives.
When this disaster is over, I recommend lots of government regulations to ensure that, in the future, none of the banks (or other financial institutions) ever get "so big that we cannot let them fail".
In theory, with the "Free Market", these banks WOULD fail because they were badly managed. Instead, we're propping them up and rewarding their failed management.
America has a choice. Bring in foreign labor that sometimes is much better and sometimes much worse than American labor over here legally or outsource their functions and loose all the benefits in the process.
I'm worried by the increasing number of stories on /. up in arms about companies bringing in *gasp* foreigners. America was founded by non-natives and our economic strength comes from the thousands of immigrants who come here for a better life by getting good jobs or starting businesses.
The contempt for the foreigners coming here on H1-B visas, and the companies that hire them, disgusts me. What makes you any better or more deserving than these people? The fact that you were born in the US? Please. These people have the should have the same right as all of us to come here and be successful. By preventing people from immigrating, especially talented, smart people, we are damaging the future of this country. The ability to attract the best and the brightest to come here is one of our greatest strengths. Erecting barriers to trade and enacting protectionism, especially during this economy, will lead to our downfall as a nation.
The economy isn't a zero-sum game. Allowing foreigners to come here to work enhances their life and the life of those in this country. If you believe you are inherently more entitled to a job than someone from another country, just because you were born here, then you are a xenophobic prick.
Your argument assumes foreign workers are going to spend more money domestically. I find that argument to be incorrect. I argue that foreign workers will live extremely frugal in the US while sending the bulk of their earnings back to their home country. The best example of this is migrant Mexican workers.
There is no "Free Market" as originally described. The people with the money can get politicians to write laws protecting them.
But they keep quoting the "Free Market" when it is advantageous to their position to pretend that it exists.
It does not exist.
So just don't pretend that it does any more and ignore those people who use it to justify their abuses and just make it impossible for any SINGLE organization to get so big that the government has to rescue it.
It's all about privatizing profits while socializing losses.
they couldn't find enough Americans capable of handling sales, lending, and bank administration.
The banks could have _trained_ people. It's called 'investing', and banks are supposed to be good at it.
Yet....they can afford new jets (French ones), they can afford millions of dollars of bonuses...etc.
I've always been against anyone telling a company how much someone could make...and I still to an extent am...but, shit...if the US tax payers are bailing them out, how about a little favoritism to same US citizens for jobs, eh? An exec. making that much salary, with failing times...should not get a fucking bonus, but, use that money to hire US citizens out of work.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
It seems more likely they had run out of the domestic supply of that particular breed of idiot, and were looking offshore for people with a bare grasp of English and math.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Sorry if I had phrased that like that. My point was that putting money into US citizens at the bottom of the economic ladder gets more taxes generated for the government than putting the same OR LESS money into foreign workers.
That has also been my experience. They come here, live as cheaply as possible, save their money (good so far, right?) and then start their own business back home when they return.
During good economic times and high employment, that doesn't impact the economy very much.
During bad economic times, you're sending money away from the US economy ... and taking jobs from US workers ... and increasing the tax burden on the other workers to pay for unemployment benefits of those workers ... and so forth. The government collects fewer taxes, but ends up with spending more on the unemployed. It's a double hit.
Labor unions 'plagued the country for decades,' you say?
The UAW was a disaster, I'll agree, but only because they did in reverse what private enterprises too often do to warrant unionization among their employees. Instead of General Motors exploiting and abusing its workers, the UAW exploited and abused General Motors while their incompetent management ran the company into the ground. (And would have done so with or without the UAW's help.) To brand unions as a universal evil like you do is just as bad as branding them as a universal good.
Yeah, that's what I want to know. I'ld gladly take a job at a bank for 65k+ a year while I'm still in school, bankers hours would still give me time for class. And as an applied math minor, and a CS major, I'm sure I could handle these so called difficult positions. But it sounds like they weren't willing to pay the 75k+ a year that folks like me would like
The info on your web site says you have no significant experience in technology, and you do not yet have your degree. Perhaps part of the reason these companies are looking for H1Bs are because there are so many people at your level of experience who think they're worth 75k a year.
No one makes $65K a year while they're in school in this economy. You'll be lucky to make that much with a Bachelors.
Banks making decisions according to financial factors?! Say it ain't so!
Congressmen act surprised because they want their constituents to believe that by bailing out the banks, they're saving the American worker and the economy. But I have serious doubts that any of the Congressmen who voted for the bailout *really believed* that it would create jobs or help the economy.
The problem Congressmen *might* be facing next election is that those workers laid off by the banks receiving bailouts are not the ignoramuses they assume. These workers went to college, took courses in economics, and generally speaking, understand as much about the economy - if not more - than their congressional counterparts. They lived through eight years of the Bush White House, and can recognize cronyism when they see it. They lived through eight years of Reaganomics, and not only do they recognize it when they see it, they know it doesn't work.
And they, like me, are frustrated that the wool is being pulled over our collective eyes. We're frustrated that Congress is rewarding greed and avarice, and trying to sell it as creating jobs. They know better; we know better.
Oh, and that Change that Obama was talking about? Well, our government is going to take your dollars, and leave you with pocket change. Welcome to Democracy.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
is slashdot now a bastion of protectionism?
here are your choices:
1. bitch, whine, and moan. sink further into mediocrity
2. shut up, and make your fortune in the NEXT big new thing
apparently, the america of can do attitudes and innovation is being supplanted by loud sniveling voices of priveledge and entitlement
protectionism never works. if there exists some sort of talent outside the borders of your country that can do what you can do for less, simple economics will gravitate to that. either it will be the multinational you work for doing that, laying you off, or if that multinational is blocked from doing that due to protectionist laws, then some other company will capitalize on the cost difference, your multinational will shrink from the competition, and you will get laid off thataways. see? there is NO protection from simple economics and PROGRESS
you are not entitled to the same good job your entire life. no morality, natural law, or sense of fairness exists in which that attitude is supported
tighten your belt, shut up, move on, and make your mark somehwere else
really
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
And yet the executives of those companies using that logic don't seem to apply it to themselves.
That's because it doesn't work.
The foreign workers don't expect to be paid as much because they DO expect to save most of it and then return home where the cost of living is significantly lower.
Now, if the companies want to play that game, then fine. They should be required to move their offices to India or wherever.
Instead, they want to "game" the system by paying to cheap labour rates of India, but enjoying all the benefits of the USofA. Meanwhile they're hiding their assets in the Cayman Islands and such.
Why should the American citizens support their government allowing such behaviour? It's just a race to the bottom.
I agree with you 100%. Banks I've worked with will hire Indian workers at 20k to network admin over 1000+ clients. That's a bare minimum 50k to a US worker. It's bullshit. I know about "hard times", but like you said, if it's hard times, then execs shouldn't be getting 7 figures.
Trackball users will be first against the wall.
Try hiring older experienced workers. They'll be more productive sooner, so you won't have to hire as many.
I didn't see any Java or C# on your resume either. To get a job at any of the big banks, you need any of the following:
1. Java and some java framework stuf like EJB or Spring and Hibernate .net framework
2. C# and the
3. Be a C++ Ninja with some exceptional Math skills.
Consider this to be constructive criticism if you want to make the bucks in the Financial Services industry.
All bank robberies would be utter failures if Blackwater, DynCorp, or Triple Canopy were providing security. There's a big difference between your average rent-a-cop and a highly proficient, former military combat arms, security operative.
But sametimes there would be a few victims of their over-reaction.
ie. Killed 'cause kicked the ATM.
or The client looked like a Iraqui
or Coins bag mistaken as a bomb
If a company does a web search for you, beware of what they find.
If they don't like it, you won't get called.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
that they ARE available. In droves. Despite complaints about our school systems, according to actual studies we have today, on the average, the best-educated workforce in the USA that we have ever had. Saying that there are no qualified native workers is just plain bullshit. And even if it were not bullshit, the industry would have nobody to blame but themselves. Nobody is going to bother to "get educated" in order to get a job that pays shit wages and has few benefits!
Companies and corporations are going to have to get this through their heads: they complain that workers are not loyal, and that they cannot find enough people who want to work for them. But the reason is simple: they treat their employees like crap and pay them too little. So... they try to hire foreigners who are willing to live in hovels and accept those shit wages.
Of course this is a generalization, and there are some glaring exceptions... some companies treat their employees like royalty. But those exceptions have been relatively few and can be hard to get into. So as a generalization, this is pretty good.
If they want to find good and loyal employees, they are going to have to pay better, and treat people better. And the changes have to start on their side, because employees are NOT going to say to themselves, "Sure, they treat me like crap and pay me poorly, but I will be a good, loyal employee anyway and maybe they will change over the years!"
Excuse me, but things -- and people -- just don't work that way. Normal people take the jobs that look attractive and avoid those that do not... which is why they are not working for those companies that are complaining.
Until employers are willing to treat people better, they aren't going to get better people. Period.
If you're that glued to the resume, you may not know how to hire good tech workers. Figure out what they do in their spare time. Kids that spend day and night working on pet projects, open source software, etc. have more motivation and experience than any 'me-too' 'look how many projects I've done' resumes. I've worked with PhD's and Master's degree graduates that had all sorts of "projects" under their belt but they could not deliver. Resume's are a good way to asses whether someone is in the 'ballpark,' but honestly it looks like you're playing a game of wanting to find the eager, capable, confident, experienced applicant who can walk in and be productive on day one, who also happens to be young and can be compensated less $60k/year. That's ridiculous. Hire someone who has 1-3 years experience out of college. Won't be too much more expensive and they'll have all the social awkwardness of the first job out of their system, and has some real context to interview about. School doesn't do squat. It just shows that you are capable of doing more than just squat.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
What needs to happen is to turn off the money tit. Okay, $350BN is down the tubes (or did they give out the other half by now?) but this stuff gets everyone riled up when they hear about it. Unlike a lot of the stuff we hate in government on /., this is something that Man On The Street hates just as much. Call your congressmen, and tell Man On The Street that you did and give him the numbers. If enough direct pressure is put on them, they won't keep throwing gasoline on the fire because they don't want to get burned in the process. Everybody wins (in the long run and not painlessly) except for the losers who ran their banks into the ground. Otherwise it's fire and brimstone etc. for much longer, and the fail gets spread around.
Your brain is not a computer.
get that picture of poor little third-world-workers living on nothing but bread and water to send every penny home to their dying mother in some village in africa out of your head please. It may apply to some extend to the "migrant mexican workers" you're speaking about, but they don't exactly work in the 60k tier of bank employees now do they. When a company hires workers from another country than yours, there is only reason why: IT COSTS LESS MONEY.
and one important point: the moment you start to turn your anger against the people that's been hired or their behaviour (that's what you're doing), you're on the wrong track. Especially people in the bank business, american people mind you, transfer their money to tax havens, be it via fonds or investments. And yes, especially the middle class does this.
On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.
two points: first, "six years""the meltdown"--six years ago was 2003, for god's sake, the economy was still roaring along. second, these banks are 100,000+ employee behemoths; they're ruled mostly by inertia. if someone said, in 2005, "hire me 10,000 people from india in 2008", an executive order direct from bush wouldn't have been enough to cancel the process in less than six months.
Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
-kfg
I'll be willing to bet that when you leave work you actually leave work.
I'm also willing to bet that you don't have your nights, weekends, and time with your family interrupted because of something broken at work.
I'm also willing to bet that for every hour worked over 40 a week you get actual compensation for, instead of "We'll make it up to you".
I'm also willing to bet that your company can not just lay off 1,200 workers in a week, without your union getting involved, and garnering some pretty hefty severance packages (if the union lets them lay the workers off in the first place).
Yes, your job is more physically demanding, I'll give you that. But even desk jobs can cause stress.
If that's what you got out of the parent post, it says a hell of a lot more about you than the poster.
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
I think what shocks me most is the complete disconnect between the classes. The lower class is surprised that the elite is shitting on them? Talk about heads in the sand. Meanwhile the elite bankers at the top are shocked that they are being scrutinized so heavily. After all, "do you know who the fuck you are talking to?"
I'd be laughing my ass off if it didn't hurt so many people.
I'm sorry... My knee jerk just hit me in the face so hard I lost all ability to reason for a while.
The dozen banks now receiving the biggest rescue packages, totaling more than $150 billion, requested visas for more than 21,800 foreign workers over the past six years.
We've got our panties in a bunch over their hiring H1Bs at the rate of one one thousandth of their global workforce each year during the fastest period of growth in banking history? Anyone else feeling stupid yet?
21,860 over six years.
So an average of 3,600 a year?
Or, divided across the dozen quoted, an average of three hundred whole H1Bs per bank, each year.
To put that in context, Citibank, not even the largest of them, had around 300,000 worldwide workers. Their lay offs have hit around 10% of that number... 30,000. 300 H1Bs a year is suddenly a very, very small number.
Even if none of the H1Bs moved on during the six years, they'd have hired a total of about 2,000 of them. They'd still have laid off 28,000 non H1B holders even if every last H1B holder had gone first.
Sweet jesus, they're clearly the most evil H1B abusers evar.
And as for talking about how evil they were for hiring these H1Bs over the last six years as the system imploded? It's been falling apart for the last year or so. The other five of those that we're busy lumping in there were (admittedly for bad reasons) the fastest period of growth the banking sector has ever seen.
The constant whining about H1Bs, I'm sorry, is the same pathetic xenophobia and protectionism that kicks in, whether grounded or not, whenever people get scared.
I was disgusted in 2002 as that shameful of human traits was used to justify stripping away the nation's civil liberties. I was disgusted as it turned in to attacking mosques and regarding all muslims as obvious terrorists. I was disgusted as it was used to justify attacking as "unpatriotic" anyone who dared question what turned out to be lies justifying a war that's cost 5,000 American lives. And, yeah, I'm pretty disgusted by it now too.
Xenophobia's pathetic at any time. Massively distorting numbers to make a point that really doesn't exist doesn't help.
Blame your government. What kind of idiot gives money away without oversight into how it is spent?
Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
And you BELIEVE these resumes from India?
"And with it, the protectionism and labor unionism that plagued the country for decades. Want to see what happens when the whole US economy becomes like GM ? You're in for a ride."
A strong and powerful society where the middle class held real power and families could easily own a home and live well on one adults wage while and the other stayed at home to raise the kids leading to highly functioning and prosperous nations?
Your right, 1950 to the late 1980s were bloody awful for the average man on the street in western countries thats.for.sure.
1) Minimum wage has been planned to make an increase for at least the last year, if not two or more. Personally I do not agree with it but whatever, off topic.
You know I used to agree with the whole minimum wage being unnecessary or even bad thing. But honestly a compromise needs to be reached on the whole issue.
Agreed that no minimum wage would help people get jobs they otherwise wouldn't have, and possibly help people learn a new skill in a job that later maybe they can move on to a better job. But the sad reality is, when times get tough people will often literally sell themselves into slavery, we see it with many alien workers, Hispanic and Asian, coming here as indentured servants only to live as slaves. Personally I think as a society we should have moved past that... With modern technology an individual can produce way more than he will consume (given minimum surviving consumption obviously). The people who reap the rewards of this increased production are the owners every time...
But I also agree that people who want to work for less than minimum wage, be it a teenager just getting their first job or someone wanting to learn a new skill yet not volunteer to work for free, compromises should be made. But that's something we need to figure out. Wholesale abandonment of our principals of treating people with dignity on the other hand we should not be so quick to compromise on.
I think you're missing the point. The policies you cite are woefully inadequate. I mean, what's the point of having emergency public health if the ensuing bankruptcy is going to absolutely break the person's and their entire family's life and career? And if they should ever climb out again, the insurers won't want to touch them unless for exorbitant high fess with exceptions for any pre-existing condition under the sun.
You don't think financing an education is a problem? The average debt out of undergraduate programmes in the US is some 30-40 thousand USD, and you that's just for those who can come up with enough loans? And that's just a peanuts BA/BS. Professional degrees will leave you an average of 100 thousand USD in debt. Do be realistic; this is not a viable system. The graduates are sometimes stuck with those loans for decades.
Another AC telling us that we Americans are inferior employees. Seems there are a lot of such posts in here. Are we being astroturfed? Why is this particular one rated so high?
He so much wants to hire us, but he doesn't. Says it's all our fault for writing crappy resumes, not working hard enough, and not doing school right. Theory isn't good enough, he wants practical experience. Apparently our schools aren't giving us good guidance, and a degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Is all this believable? It smells, that's for sure.
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
The problem is, none of those "theories" were Capitalism. They were forms of pseudo-Capitalism designed to maximize consolidation of market players [anti-competition/pro megacorporations too big to fail] and form legally protected Oligopolies.
Real Capitalism with government oversight guaranteeing a large pool of players in all markets is something the US power brokers fear the most.
I think you give them too much credit. They'll never be shocked. They will be bankrupt and on the street homeless and still be fighting for the rights of the wealthy to continue screwing them.
Look at Joe the Plumber.
The idiots in this country who believe that hard work and long hours alone will make them 8 figures some day. The idiots who believe that their success is the result of their hardwork and their hardwork alone--that they don't owe anybody anything. "You're going to take away MY WEALTH!" When they have no wealth of their own.
Everybody in America dreams of winning the lottery or working hard and building a business which is going to make them millions. And when that happens they "sure as hell aren't going to pay to keep some lazy ass mexican to sit home and watch cable." They're all deluded that someday that millionaire will be them.
Are the rich and succesful by and large hard workers and productive members of society? Sure. Absolutely. But are they 100,000 times more useful to an organization? Are they 100,000 times more productive than a replacement? No. Our entire pay structure has gotten bent out of shape. Who pays the salaries of a large bank? The board. Is the Salary coming out of the board's pockets? Not really. What do they care if they pay their CEO 10 million or 11? And if the CEO makes 11 million then it only seems fair the board pays itself 2 each.
How can you rationally set the salary of someone who is your boss? How can you rationally set your own wage? No wonder it's completely blown itself out of proportion. You can't tell me there isn't someone out there who is a business genius who is willing to work for $1million a year. Based on the performance of the auto industry it's been obvious for over a decade you could take any manager in the corporate office and put them in power and get just as good of results.
We've gotten to the point now in these large organizations where we're paying 50x the price for .01x times the extra gain. But that's the American dream. Someday "I too could be that super over priced executive." Someday "I too could be that movie star." Someday "I too could be that lottery winner." And when that day comes! I don't want to pay the government a million dollars a year in taxes!
I strongly support your statement. I am currently living in a European Country that I have no citizenship in. I am not allowed to vote, but I am allowed to pay taxes. But somehow that doesn't stop me from being the evil foreigner who takes away jobs for the locals.
The GP argument implicitly assumes that there is some fixed amount of work available, and that foreigners coming into the country somehow "take away" their work, or deteriorate their salary. I can assure you that, if anything, I am more expensive than a local (I get the same wage, but my employer paid a bonus to get me here. Also, I am stricter about taking all of my paid leave and not working overtime than the people around here).
The sad fact is that while the markets have become global, most workers still don't want to live global. It's just as easy for an American to get abroad as it is for an American company to hire people abroad. So why are Americans so hellbent on staying put? It can't be the standard of living: Many European countries offer a better deal than the States when it comes to work-live balance and purchasing power.
He said he's hired these guys - you'd find out quite quickly if they've been spinning you a load of BS. But don't let facts get in the way of prejudices.
"It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
I am sorry but thats what comes off free trade....i dont remember too many people complaining when this meant mega corporations getting unfettered access to developing nations and repatriating their profits back to shareholders in Europe and the US.
Free trade means precisely that : Free movement of Goods,Capital and Labour.
For years we have had cheap goods off the back of chinese labour and booming economies with access to new markets for our mega corporations.The chickens are coming home to roost,Comrade!
Wanted : A Signature.
Any power sufficiently concentrated is a threat to our liberty, not just government. This applies to any organization or individual.
Having said that, government is a necessary evil in our current social and economic framework. We try to mitigate it's downsides by making those in power accountable through various mechanisms. I'm not arguing for bigger government, but rather to put effective safeguards on government power, and to use this power when necessary for the common good.
I would very much prefer that I have a direct say in where taxpayer money gets spent. Right now, a large chunk of this money is spent on bailing out the financial industry (whom I may add spent considerable sums of money lobby for less oversight of themselves for innovation's sake). It may not be the best system, but the taxpayer does not want to see public money being spent frivolously by individuals and organizations that have been proven to be irresponsible in the past.
You say you have a fundamental problem with wealth redistribution, but in fact do you? You have a problem with the government redistributing your wealth, but do you have a problem when it is private persons doing is? For their own gain?
The market surely is a wealth redistribution system, but it is not perfect and prone to abuse, as can be seen currently even though in many cases it does work well. I for one, am glad that there are people in government that are willing to temper our tendency to idolize the market. Not to dismantle it, put to prevent power being concentrated in those that abuse it.
:. Ultimate Control Dedicated/VM Servers
<devilsadvocate>
H1B visas mean the people getting hired are living in the same country, and probably the same city as the US worker you mentioned, these jobs are not outsourced overseas. How is it then, that these people can survive on $20k yet a local worker needs $50k? Is it a matter of expectation or actual need?
</devilsadvocate>
Note I'm not saying that it is correct to undercut citizen's but how do you we make the case that $50k is necessary as a living wage when the employers can point to the H1B visa folks and say "See, they are doing just fine at less than half that amount"? How do you win that argument?
Are unions such a great resource when others benefit but suddenly turn into something awfully negative when it applies to you?
No - they're like a lot of other things. A fairly good idea that gets corrupted by human involvement.
Please don't use "umm" or "err" or "erm".
Everybody in America dreams of winning the lottery or working hard and building a business which is going to make them millions. And when that happens they "sure as hell aren't going to pay to keep some lazy ass mexican to sit home and watch cable." They're all deluded that someday that millionaire will be them.
Are the rich and succesful by and large hard workers and productive members of society? Sure. Absolutely. But are they 100,000 times more useful to an organization? Are they 100,000 times more productive than a replacement? No. Our entire pay structure has gotten bent out of shape. Who pays the salaries of a large bank? The board. Is the Salary coming out of the board's pockets? Not really. What do they care if they pay their CEO 10 million or 11? And if the CEO makes 11 million then it only seems fair the board pays itself 2 each."
Well, one thing you keep mentioning...becoming a millionaire on salary. That's the error I see in your argument.
There's and old saying that you will never get rich working for someone else. That is really true 99% of the time.
In the US, if you want to be rich...you gotta work for yourself. Incorporate and get out there on your own....entrepreneurial spirit and all. Invent something, consult, contract yourself out...etc. This is where you make money. Is there risk? Of course, most people that are wealthy take risks to go along with that hard work,etc.
And lastly....you don't have to be a millionaire to be rich. To many people, making 6 figure salaries is rich to them. I've found that I've amassed most of the fun 'toys' I've ever wanted in life, and aside from one or two new ones a year...I don't need a ton of money.
As long as I have a fun car and motorcycle, a cool place to live, I don't have to keep track of what my grocery store bill (or bar bill, or restaurant tab) will be and just know I can afford it.....I'm happy. I think with me personally, that is what I'd say is 'rich' to me. If during my daily life, I don't have to worry really about what price things are...know that I can afford to do what I like to do....I am rich. (of course I also mean this AFTER I've put money back for savings and retirement, etc)
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........