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How Do I Start a University Transition To Open Source?

exmoron writes "I work at a small university (5,500 students) and am in a position to potentially influence future software purchasing decisions. I use a number of FOSS solutions at home (OpenOffice.org, Zotero, GIMP, VirtualBox). My university, on the other hand, is a Microsoft and proprietary software groupie (Vista boxes running MS Office 2007, Exchange email server, Endnote, Photoshop, Blackboard, etc.). I'd like to make an argument that going open source would save the university money and think through a gradual transition process to open source software (starting small, with something like replacing Endnote with Zotero, then MS Office with OpenOffice.org, and so on). Unfortunately, I can't find very good information online on site licenses for proprietary software. How much does a site-license for Endnote cost? What about a site license for MS Office for 2,000 computers? In short, what's the skinny on moving to open source? How much money could a university like mine save? Additionally, what other benefits are there to moving to open source that I could try to sell the university on? And what are the drawbacks (other than people whining about change)?"

63 of 497 comments (clear)

  1. Declaration of independence by messner_007 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    1. Re:Declaration of independence by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Funny

      Bes

      http://osor.eu/case_studies/declaration-of-independence-the-limux-project-in-munich

      Nah, too political and the political process takes too long.

      No, what you have to do is the following:

      1. Shoot all Windows admins. I know, it sounds brutal but trust me, it'll be better for everyone on the long run. It's no more than what they deserve after all. I mean, they freely chose to support the Evil Empire.

      2. Send all the brainwashed Windows users to the appropriate re-education camp to have them deprogrammed. Now, some might say that this is no better than what Microsoft has done all these years, and I'd agree, but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

      3. Send in the LPTs (Linux Proselytization Teams) to spread the Word amongst all those who didn't get the message the first time around. After all, there are always some for whom the deprogramming process doesn't work perfectly, or who managed to escape the initial roundup. It's necessary to root them out so they can be given proper guidance. Really, it's for their own good.

      This may be hard for some of you stomach, I understand, but just think how free we'll all feel when Microsoft is gone forever.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:Declaration of independence by h4rm0ny · · Score: 2, Insightful


      Tis true - we all become that which we fight against. ;)

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    3. Re:Declaration of independence by fyoder · · Score: 3, Funny

      4. Finally, the year of Linux on the desktop will be known as 'Year Zero'.

      --
      Loose lips lose spit.
    4. Re:Declaration of independence by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 2, Informative

      May I suggest a quote?

      "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And when you gaze for long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F. Nietzsche

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    5. Re:Declaration of independence by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nietzsche started the "Soviet Russia" meme?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  2. money is not the way by the_B0fh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You won't be able to win this with the money argument. Microsoft will swarm all over you, giving free stuff away. They have a fund just to give away free licenses to anyone who's even thinking about trying open source.

    No, since you're a university, the way to approach this is to let the undergrads explore. Sell it as a learning experience. Why is OSS so popular nowadays? Maybe the University itself, as a place of learning, should offer this? Don't limit it to just OSS, bring up OSX as well, to be fair. Let the students explore.

    Now, how to get everything work well together? Why, we depend on open standards of course! The entire Internet is built on open standards, RFCs and so on. All the software must be open interfaces (exchange has imap, for example, and AD has ldap). Keep doing this. Get in touch with the contracting office, and ask them to consider putting language in for their RFPs and RFIs to include "must work with appropriate open standards".

    Slowly, but surely, things will get better.

    1. Re:money is not the way by the_B0fh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One more thing - recognize the shortcomings of OSS too. Not everything that's OSS is perfect. There are shitty OSS things too. For example, openoffice sucks, compared to MS Office. Be open about things.

      Also look at external offerings. Why run your own mail server, when you can do google apps - I think it's free for non-profits and .edus. Gmail, and instantly, you just saved a bunch of money, and a bunch of work. Now those people can be put to working on other higher priority stuff.

    2. Re:money is not the way by v1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Microsoft will swarm all over you, giving free stuff away. They have a fund just to give away free licenses to anyone who's even thinking about trying open source.

      If one of his major goals is to save money (and not be an OS zealot for example, changing to OS just because etc) then doing something that causes MS to open the charity chest be an alternate, possibly acceptable alternative?

      Call up MS's volume / edu license group and ask for quotes, saying you're comparing TCO with MS and looking at switching. Not only will you get your quotes, but the Free Gifts Fairy at MS will call you and offer all sorts of nice things to drop the idea of FOSS. Even if you're not seriously considering FOSS, that's a nice way to say, cut the bill for next year's software upgrades in half or better isn't it?

      I mean, if MS is going to try to bribe you, may as well take advantage of it if you can, as a serious option.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    3. Re:money is not the way by cgenman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Always remember that a bit of job training is in there too. Your artists *need* extensive Photoshop experience. Same with Maya, 3ds max, protools, etc. And asking non-techies to switch from MS office is like convincing 70-year-olds to drive on the other side of the street.

      E-mail is a perfect place to start the transition, especially if nobody uses meeting requests. But go one piece at a time, and realize that people in academia are frequently motivated by things other than money.

    4. Re:money is not the way by Foofoobar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      well this is true and not true. Money saved is most definitely not the only talking point. Talk about security. Talk about cross platform functionality and open standards (after all alot of students use Mac and some use Linux too). They want a system that is secure, costs less but also works with all computers being brought into the network. Open source supports open standards, is more often cross platform and easier to secure. Not to mention it is often free.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    5. Re:money is not the way by rob1980 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, since you're a university, the way to approach this is to let the undergrads explore. Sell it as a learning experience. Why is OSS so popular nowadays? Maybe the University itself, as a place of learning, should offer this? Don't limit it to just OSS, bring up OSX as well, to be fair. Let the students explore.

      I suspect that'd be about as effective as convincing a Pepsi campus that selling Coke would be a valuable "learning" experience for the undergrads. Personally I'd start by selling copies of Open Office, GIMP, Ubuntu, etc. (for $1 or however much it cost to put them on a CD) at the bookstore alongside Office, Photoshop, and Windows and then when it comes time to update all your office software again, use whatever sales figures (in terms of copies sold, obviously) were generated from that against how many support calls went to the school helpdesk to determine if you can even make a case to the school or not.

    6. Re:money is not the way by bfizzle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've seen this happen as well too.

      I seriously doubt the OP will be able to justify the move the OSS. Your Microsoft rep will drop the cost of all your software purchases with a Campus Agreement to below what it would cost your university to use OSS.

      OSS isn't free. There is the costs of training and implementation... and finding well qualified employees to run your systems will not be easy on a education budget. Don't forget support costs!!!

      I'd highly recommend calling your Microsoft rep and start negotiating. I doubt you'll be able to justify OSS to management. What you will be able to do is get a campus agreement and provide software to your whole campus community and pick up premier support for your sysads for close to what you are already paying.

      I will warn you that you are moving into Microsoft's subscription model doing this, but you will win concessions by doing this.

    7. Re:money is not the way by Vario · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Parent is right: money is not the argument, that is worth the switch. Software companies, Microsoft included want students to learn MS Office, Adobe, Matlab, Autodesk Inventor, etc. Some companies even give their student versions of really expensive software packages away for free, just have a look at Autodesk.

      For the students it is of great value, if they are able to work efficiently with open source software. Just a few days ago I helped someone to switch from Endnote to Zotero+Jabref. It was quite a pain to convert from the Endnote format to something more open like the Bibtex format and there are several websites which show you 10 different hacks how to do it somehow.

      With open source the file format is always documented, at least in the code itself. So if you want to work with your reference in 5 years without upgrading Endnote to Windows 8 this is the only sane choice.

      For science in general it is necessary to check your results carefully and be able to reproduce other people's work somehow. How are you going to judge a paper claiming: "We simulated bla with this $$$ software package and it looks marvelous"?

      Besides file formats and reproducibility in my opinion it is in most cases better to teach something that can be useful for the next 5-20 years, instead of some fast moving target. Software vendors often change their products and break backwards compatibility (Labview is great, but going back 2 versions is a no go) not because they invented this new must have feature but to sell the next version. If your students can do statistical analysis in Gnumeric and R they are well equipped for advanced work and do not have to worry about all the errors in Excel (statistics in Excel).

    8. Re:money is not the way by MoonBuggy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I absolutely agree that the problems with OSS solutions need to be considered, but to say that OpenOffice 'sucks, compared to MS Office' is far too narrow a statement. All products have relative merits and problems, and there is a time and a place for most of them.

      Commercial software is often (but not always) not completely matched in terms of features when compared to the closest open source competitor. The key is to find out whether anyone was actually using those particular features and thus whether they'll be missed when they're gone. Office software is a good example because a huge percentage of users really do only use the basic features - one can't argue that OpenOffice does everything that MS Office does, but that's a moot point if OpenOffice does everything that the users need.

      Backend software is also a good place to start, but for the opposite reason. While it's likely that many of the features are being used, it's the IT department rather than the end user that is running the software - this makes it far easier to draw up a list of what can and can't be replicated with open source, rely on your 'user' to be able to adjust to a different way of doing things, and so on.

      The summary mentions Gimp vs. Photoshop, however, and this is perhaps not such a good place to transition. It's the kind of software that is far more likely to have users who actually do need many of the features. The advice I would give is to make sure you know exactly what your students need from their software - Photoshop licenses are expensive, so when an engineering student needs to make some pretty buttons for their website it seems completely fair to direct them towards Gimp. If, on the other hand, the graphic design department were deprived of Photoshop, I think they would have a very legitimate right to complain - not only because they may well need features that are simply unmatched in the OSS alternative, but also because it is only fair to give students experience of the software that is standard in their industry. Same goes for a lot of CAD software, mathematical programs, and other specialist applications.

      Office software, however, isn't used as a specialist tool by many people; it's a general utility for fairly mundane tasks. Everyone's experience will differ, but just as an example this is what I've found using OpenOffice:

      Personally I prefer Writer to MS Word. My needs when it comes to word processing are fairly basic, and Writer fulfils them. It also has a few less annoyances than Word in my general day-to-day use - diagrams stay where I put them rather than being randomly scattered around the document when I go back to change a line or two, to take the first example that springs to mind. Obviously there must be some logic to the way that Word handles inline images, but it was never apparent to me. OpenOffice wins for me on word processing.

      I have no real need for PowerPoint at the moment, other than to open the occasional .ppt file sent to me by someone else, and for that purpose Impress seems perfectly functional. The fact it's free tips the balance in favour of OpenOffice for my current purposes, but to be honest I'd probably use Keynote if I actually had to produce PowerPoint-style presentations on any regular basis.

      Calc is where OpenOffice falls down a bit for me. It's not bad, but it's lacking some of the useful features that Excel has. This ranges from taking three steps to do something I could do in Excel in one, to actually having to export to .xls and use MS Excel on one of the shared machines. I still use Calc on my own machines because it's free, but it's a definite weak spot and Excel is the only component of the MS Office suite that I actually find to be the best on the market.

    9. Re:money is not the way by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Also look at external offerings. Why run your own mail server, when you can do google apps - I think it's free for non-profits and .edus. Gmail, and instantly, you just saved a bunch of money, and a bunch of work. Now those people can be put to working on other higher priority stuff."

      But it is not free-libre. You cannot study or modify the gmail codebase, with the exception of the web front end. Google can pull the plug at any minute, and suddenly an entire university is without email. Google could also suddenly decide (perhaps following investor pressure) that universities will no longer receive free service.

      . A competent sysadmin can set up a mail server without too much effort. Unless your university is tiny and not technically oriented, I do not think asking for competent sysadmins is terribly unfair.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    10. Re:money is not the way by Gorobei · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly. Trying a global migration to OSS, or anything else, is doomed to failure. I saw a similar thing in a crazy "lets get rid of Linux" effort at a big bank: doomed to failure because a few groups really wanted Linux as the compute farm OS. One size does not fit all.

      The best thing to do is find bottlenecks that are tying the users to a specific OS - IE only webpages, mail servers, print services, weird apps, etc. Spend your effort prying these loose. Fight pointless mandates (you must use XYZ software to do random task ABC.) Get support in place for other OSes: if your helpdesk thinks in terms of MS software only, you are screwed - get them used to MacOS, Linux, etc. Then let the users do what they want: they'll be happier, and you'll see a lot more software diversity, which will in turn encourage more infrastructure openness.

    11. Re:money is not the way by v1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The entire department would love to stop using Windows, but the headache of teaching the faculty how to use it would drive us insane.

      That's a tradeoff. Do a cost analysis, see how much money would be saved, and how much it would cost to say, double your staff? Be practical about it, and make sure they understand that the increase in staff is absolutely necessary, that there's no way to cut tech costs without increasing staff somewhat. Even if what looked like a 90% drop in cost only turns out to be a 20% drop in cost, that's still justified.

      And then once you've made the jump, after a year or two, your staff can relax out of Panic Mode and quality of service will go up. (or you can lay off a couple staff)

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    12. Re:money is not the way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Also look at external offerings. Why run your
      > own mail server, when you can do google apps

      Right, why be Microsoft proprietary and have *SOME* control over your destiny when you can be Goolge proprietary and have *NONE*.

    13. Re:money is not the way by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is huge and vastly underestimated. Your goal should not be to transition to open source--that's just as bad as an all closed-source ecosystem. Your goal should be to transition to infrastructural openness so people can use what they want. If they want to use Office, great--just make sure that their documents save in ODF so everybody can access them, etc. etc.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    14. Re:money is not the way by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But it is not free-libre.

      Nobody whose opinion matters actually gives a shit if it's OMG FREE-LIBRE.

      (No, this isn't trolling. It's simply the truth. Free software is not a goal of a university's IT department, getting a quality system is. The two may intersect or they may not as the case may be. In this case, GMail is a poor solution, but not because it's not open source--it's a poor solution because it doesn't effectively allow for horizontal integration. But most open source solutions suck at this, too.)

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    15. Re:money is not the way by York+the+Mysterious · · Score: 3, Informative

      Do your research on migrated to Google first. Gmail looks fantastic from an end user standpoint, but their hosted e-mail solution is a real joke. My university considered a migration from an old UNIX server to hosted Gmail last year. Not a chance. You can't do the simplest things like remove a user from the global address book, or create complex mailing lists. It lacks the features that Exchange had when it still ran on NT 4. I really hope that Google pulls it together, but at the moment Gmail doesn't cut it even for a small sized University (were were 8000 students). I'd say look into Zimbra, but the OSS version lacks clustering and you really want to cluster for fault tolerance.

      --

      Tim Smith - Ramblings from Nerd Land
    16. Re:money is not the way by crispytwo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On top of that, I would start with a free FOSS DVD that all students and staff get with the most current software builds on it. People are amazed at what is free but often don't know how to get it or even what it's for.

      Many people are grateful to have OpenOffice or GIMP when they don't have something like that already. Especially when they realize the same software is released is on Windows and OS X, etc. and won't have trouble sharing with their peers.

      When people start demanding compatibility with FOSS, then the University will implement tools that follow.

      Start the Movement!

    17. Re:money is not the way by GrigorPDX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seconded. You'll never get anywhere driving it from the top down with mandatory "we're switching to XYZ campus-wide" decrees. Make it optional. Introduce voluntary users to a good OSS tool in a non-critical area - clubs, non-credit courses, etc. - where the stakes are lower. Make sure they have a good experience by having lots of in-person help. If it goes well for them, word of mouth will become your friend. "Hey, Dr. SoAndSo did this really interesting thing with ..." "I wonder what Prof. ThisNthat is doing that has her students so engaged and excited?" Your early adopters become advocates for the cause. They can also help other users on campus get going with the new tool(s).

      It's very similar to grass-roots organizing: start small and build momentum.

    18. Re:money is not the way by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just thought I'd throw in there, the reason there's hardly any information available is mostly because the sweetheart deals come hand in hand with non-disclosure agreements. Microsoft is evil, not stupid...

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    19. Re:money is not the way by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For the students it is of great value, if they are able to work efficiently with open source software.

      Why? Variations on this argument are common on Slashdot, but rarely backed up.

      Students can work with OSS anyway if they want to, without any help from the university beyond supplying a broadband Internet connection.

      Meanwhile, students cannot necessarily work with industry standard commercial software without the university providing it for them, even though such software is:

      1. usually more powerful and able to produce better results than the OSS knock-offs, and
      2. much more widely used in industries where graduates may need to get jobs.

      (I'm assuming we're talking about things like Microsoft Office, Outlook/Exchange for e-mail, Adobe Creative Suite for graphics and DTP work, and similar applications where OSS really have no competition to offer, not things like programming tools, multimedia players and TeX.)

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    20. Re:money is not the way by Ihmhi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hypothetical: They ditch their Office Licenses and replace Office with OpenOffice. They save $100,000/year. That $100,000 a year could be used to hire 15-20 techs part time around the year, who can work to ease the transition.

      You employ 15 people (likely college students) and get rid of Office. Win/win.

    21. Re:money is not the way by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you assume that the needs of the users are being met, all open-source has *many* advantagess that closed-source doesn't (auditability, ease of maintenance, transparency, lack of vendor lock-in.)

      Because I don't assume that the needs of the users are met. I do graphics work. I've used both the open and closed ecosystems' products. The open ecosystem's products, to be pretty frank, suck.

      If they were as good, great, use it. But they are not, and realistically speaking, almost certainly never will be. Ignoring that in favor of ideology is stupid.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    22. Re:money is not the way by the_B0fh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dude, MS Office sucks, but for the most part it only sucks when you start doing things beyond typing up a memo. Say, futzing around with tables and so on.

      OO.o sucks in other ways. Part of it may be due to my perception since the StarOffice days (when it tried to take over your desktop - how freaking obnoxious). But definitely opening a word or excel file is far faster than doing it in OO.o. Additionally, if you open anything other than a "calc" or "excel" file, it'll open it in writer, instead of giving you a chance to say, import it into calc as a comma or some other delimited file.

      And I have used quite a few word processors in my life: AppleWorks (the original Apple II version), WordStar, WordPerfect (DOS/VMS/others), Wordperfect 6.0 (Linux), etc etc. Does OO.o suck as much as some of the others? No. But is it as good as it can be? Not close.

    23. Re:money is not the way by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think this is the problem with the Ask Slashdot Question.

      This is how I read it: "Dear Slashdot. I don't use Word, Excel, Photoshop or any other proprietary software in my day to day work. But on the occasion that I need to crop a photo or graph a single column of data OSS seems to be just as good as the software I never use. How do I switch everyone else out despite their obviously ignorant desire to be held captive by giant evil corporations?"

      The answer might be: "Dear Slashdot Questioner. Before you try and pry the closed source software out of your user's hands... perhaps you should remember that you're just an IT help monkey and might not be the best person to evaluate the merits of Open Office Calc vs Excel for the business department. You might not be able to judge the various merits of Photoshop and Gimp in the graphic design department. Or you might be completely clueless as to the relative value of Blender vs 3dsmax and Maya. Please leave tool selection to the various department heads. And we'll leave your decision between a Cisco router and a Netgear router to you.

      Cordially,
      The Educational Faculty.

      P.S. We know where you live.
      "

    24. Re:money is not the way by wik · · Score: 2

      File a bug report on it. .tsv files renamed to .csv work as you might expect.

      --
      / \
      \ / ASCII ribbon campaign for peace
      x
      / \
    25. Re:money is not the way by jlarocco · · Score: 2

      If you assume that the needs of the users are being met, all open-source has *many* advantagess that closed-source doesn't (auditability, ease of maintenance, transparency, lack of vendor lock-in.)

      I don't think he was saying there's anything wrong with being all open source.

      His point was that the "goal" isn't using open or closed source software. The goal is to let the end users get their work done in the "best" way possible. Limiting options to open source when there's closed software that does the job better is just as silly as sticking to closed software when there is open software that does the job better. In other words, the goal isn't openness, it's getting the job done.

    26. Re:money is not the way by the_B0fh · · Score: 2

      sometimes, there are stupid interfaces, and other times, there are stupid users.

      just saying.

    27. Re:money is not the way by Gob+Gob · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Seconded. You'll never get anywhere driving it from the top down with mandatory ....."

      I agree, but you could go one step further. Bring in your old laptop of min specs XYZ and we will install the latest and greatest Linux of choices A,B,C at no cost.

      Don't give people bats but not balls.

      If someone thinks their old laptop of desktop can come up to scratch then they are likely to be a supporter of the idea.

      For the record: We did this with our staff and branch network at work.

  3. Here is at good way to start by jmorris42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Go for the two easy wins first.

    Cut your costs on licensing. Get ALL of the decison makers together and get them to put out a 100% unified front. Announce a total conversion to open source for the 2011-2012 year so as to be plausible. Then wait for your Microsoft rep to show up and offer the incentives. Take them.

    Now you are a hero to everyone in the university who is in on the con you just pulled. This will be useful to you as you slowly do the real conversion.

    The other easy win is to cut the costs to your students. Office and Blackboard.Mandate ODF for any document that crosses the barrier between the school and the students. This relieves them of the requirement to obtain Office and YOU the cost of buying that big site license out of the student fees that is the real reason the students get those low low prices in the bookstore.

    You of course continue to offer Office Student at the regular student rates for those who want it because your Microsoft rep is sniffing around. You also be sure to have OpenOffice.org 3.1 DVDs hanging at the register for $5. Be fuzzy about just where those came from, but heck in this economy it sure does save the students money. It's just too popular to pull off the counter.

    Blackboard is a never ending cause of cross platform pain (at least it was a couple of years ago) so ditch it. It not being a Microsoft product you can probably get away with it while running the con above. You tell them that will be your token (picked because it IS no visible) conversion to be able to 'claim victory' on your previous grandious project.

    After this step students should be able to use whatever the heck they want. Many will probably be using netbooks in this down economy, thus they can buy the really cheap Linux ones. The college bookstore can be encouraged to stock with this in mind. Linux and open source would then be in a position to bubble up.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
    1. Re:Here is at good way to start by h4rm0ny · · Score: 3, Insightful


      If they're smart, they'll call bluffs selectively. Assess those likely to fail in a highly public manner if they all shift across to MS's competitors and use them for publicity. Academia is pretty word of mouth and the odd disastrous migration is worth more to Microsoft than the odd lack of licence fees. It's a risk, but it's probably what I would do on select cases. A good salesman should be able to suss out likely disasters. And lets face it, even if the software you are moving to is better (however you define that), you're going to see big problems in demand for support, data migration, etc. just by virtue of the move.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    2. Re:Here is at good way to start by dave562 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's what I am waiting for. It seems to be taken on faith here on /. and to some extent in the larger tech community that "threatening Microsoft with OSS conversion" is a way to extract concessions." It has become a meme at this point. It is only a matter of time until the Microsoft rep shrugs and says, "Good luck with that. We wish you the best. When you want to talk again in a few years, I'll be able to work out a, 'used to be a good customer' discount for you." Given the current economic climate, it is probably coming sooner than most people anticipate.

      Slightly off topic, I work for a 501c3 non-profit and we get ridiculously good deals on Microsoft software. My understanding is that the education market receives similarly great deals. The non-profit sector specifically, and the education market in some cases are always notoriously strapped for cash. Those are the markets that are most likely to switch based on licensing cost, and it seems that because of that, those are the markets with the lowest licensing costs.

      I'm also right on the front lines of the OSS/Microsoft debate. We have a new CFO whose background is centered in internet startups. He likes Linux and OpenOffice and has been making noises about conversion. I welcome the discussion, because I'm always open to efficiencies and better ways of doing things. However what I'm almost 100% certain he will release is that there are a lot of proprietary, MS-centric applications that are necessary tools for the work we do. Even beyond that, for being an OSS supporter, he still uses Office, and specifically Excel for all of his financial analysis. The guy is all into OSS though. Our first conversation involved him saying, "Where I used to work, we used SSH and VNC." to which I said, "Here is your VPN client and RDP software." I don't have anything against SSH and I like VNC. But the discussion highlights the main thing that keeps people who are on MS from switching to OSS. MS provides all of the functionality that people need.

      The place that MS fears OSS is emerging markets. Those people aren't already locked in. They don't have ten or twenty years of business processes built on top of the MS stack. OSS offers similar, or in some cases, exact, and in a few cases, better functionality than the MS offering. Nearly always it come at a fraction of the upfront cost. Just look at the netbook market. I know that there are a lot of people at MS losing sleep over what HP just did with their customized Ubuntu distro. The place to fight the MS beast is on the front lines of the emerging markets, not at a university or in corporate America.

  4. Surely by Jamamala · · Score: 5, Insightful

    if you don't know how much your site licenses cost, then you aren't in a position to influence future software purchasing decisions.

    1. Re:Surely by ivoras · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Speaking from experience: Microsoft site licenses for its products for academic institution cost $0. What's not available for free with MSDNAA

      is negotiated to be as if it were.

      Any discussion starting with licensing costs in academic environments will be shot down on these grounds.

      The OP probably needs to find something in OSS that's qualitatively better (it will be tough).

      --
      -- Sig down
  5. it's called a cost analysis by alen · · Score: 3, Informative

    i did one recently to justify the purchase of a new backup system. i got the purchase orders and added how much it all cost over the last 3 years for support, maintenance, offsite tape storage, etc. then compared to a new LTO-4 and estimated a few years out. put everything in a nice easy to read PPT to show how buying a new tape library will save a lot of money going forward.

    Same here. get all the costs associated with whatever you run. You might need to ask your boss of finance department. estimate the costs of transition and running the new solution and compare the two.

    MS licensing is a nightmare and there are a bunch of programs depending on how much users you have and which program you buy into. ask your finance people to pull copies of the purchase orders.

    I work in a 95% MS shop. Reason MS rules is 90% of all MS software is stupid little scripts to make things easier. like the box to create a new user in AD. With Open Source you need to customize a lot of it and it may cost money for the consultants, extra support, etc. I help manage 30 or so SQL servers and in the last 2 years our support costs were around $1000 for a few support cases. In all cases MS released a hotfix after we opened a case. No need for custom coding.

    we do have a lot of internally depeloved apps and it's like Quake point releases with them. constant updates and fixes.

  6. Site licenses by proxima · · Score: 4, Informative

    Unfortunately, I can't find very good information online on site licenses for proprietary software. How much does a site-license for Endnote cost? What about a site license for MS Office for 2,000 computers?

    It doesn't surprise me that you can't find good information about this. Even if you found valid pricing for a medium-sized business, I doubt that universities have the same pricing. Universities themselves also negotiate directly with Microsoft (at least the larger ones do), leading to differences in pricing and terms. Unis also often negotiate to obtain student pricing on products like Office. For example:

    University of Wisconsin Office 2007 Enterprise: $72
    University of Michigan Office 2007 Enterprise: $47

    The real question is, if you're "in a position to potentially influence future software purchasing decisions", how do you not have access to the current expenditures on software licensing? What you really need are current expenditures and knowledge about when the current contract expires.

    --
    "The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." --Carl Sagan
  7. Re:Remind me not to send my kid there. by Toe,+The · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A university is supposed to educate a child as to the world of software

    Really? Maybe you are thinking of trade schools. A university is supposed to provide a well-rounded education. Indoctrinating into the world of Microsoft might be helpful in getting a white-collar-grunt job, but it is not in any way vital to a liberal arts education.

    And anyway, a large percentage of universities use *nix and/or Macs. Are they all failing in their educational mission as well?

  8. Firefox by Rinisari · · Score: 3, Informative

    Getting Firefox on all university-owned machines is a great first step. Install the IETab extension on Windows machines as a transition measure for those pesky sites which work better in IE (Blackboard, for example).

    Next, get OpenOffice installed in the same manner.

    Then, do the con suggested in this comment. Get MS to shower you in free licenses for things just so you can see how much you'd save if things were free.

    Next up is policy. Move towards a policy which favors open, published standards, not just open source. For instance, that comment says to make ODF the official format of college-student communications because it is the most accessible format (since it doesn't virtually require an expensive program to read). If any university staff so much as utters something like, "We should use whatever format we like. Students should expect to make purchases in order to advance their education," you need to combat that mentality promptly with something like, "We're in a position to lower the cost of education in both visible and transparent ways by offering better choices to our students, we need to do that."

    The last step I'll talk about is to work on the professorial end. Get professors to send documentation in ODF and PDF and require submissions in those formats. Get graphics teachers to do a week or two on open source graphics tools. Get a professor to teach a class or hold lunch-time discussions on the use of TeX for research documents and proposals and such. There are very few science majors who would not benefit from instruction in TeX.

    1. Re:Firefox by Rinisari · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are pretty much correct, and primarily because I was not sufficiently specific.

      Graphics design and media art majors should waste little time on GIMP, Krita, Inkscape, and the like. You are correct--these packages are not as robust as Photoshop and Illustrator and probably won't be.

      However, 100 level classes which out-of-major students might take to fill credits or get some kind of liberal arts visual performance credit could talk a little about these options. It's unlikely that an English major is going to drop hundreds of dollars on Photoshop to crop pictures and remove red eye when they could do it for free with GIMP.

      What's more important, though, is teaching the theory behind the methods instead of teaching the software.

  9. Re:Remind me not to send my kid there. by aztektum · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes! Exactly! Your argument is so wonderfully persuasive. You've totally discouraged me from open source software! I will only send my children to universities that support convicted monopolists and their patent/copyright law abusing corporate pals. Also, I 100% agree that free as in speech OR beer software shouldn't exist to insure the enrichment of these companies.

    It is of UTMOST importance that I spend two years of wages on an education designed to give my kids painstakingly detailed, precise instruction on where to point-click in MS-Word to make pretty charts! And to help cover the licensing costs, I will GLADLY support and requests to raise tuition. After all, it would be down right un-American to not work my ass off to help cloth and feed a bunch of rich assholes!

    --
    :: aztek ::
    No sig for you!!
  10. Pay attention to what your users need by John+Whitley · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You can do it by paying attention to what your users need, not just what you want. OpenOffice.org may be an acceptable substitute for MS Office apps in your organization. Or, you may hobble the faculty because they're required to submit Word documents for various publications, using Word templates. It's bad enough having to suffer through this in Word, but having to manage this with another layer of indirection sounds utterly intolerable. That situation sucks, but you aren't going to change it by unilateral decree.

    Likewise, using the GIMP vs. Photoshop may be great for some of your users. But if they're using features daily in Photoshop that aren't supported in GIMP, soon they'll be GIMP'ing up dartboards with your face on it.

    Simply put, users care about applications that meet their needs and organizations should too. If you are truly in a position to influence these decisions, then your responsibility is to understand and meet those needs, not serve your own ideology. Working contrary to users' needs is a terrible way to promote the OSS software cause; you'll make more enemies for OSS than friends.

  11. Microsoft Licensing by ScytheBlade1 · · Score: 4, Informative

    With Vista (and "above" - 2k8, win7), Microsoft changed the way they do site licensing. Instead of having one key for every computer, every client does a DNS lookup for a Key Management Software Server (KMS server), which then simply activates the client computer. It does not keep a record of how many activations you have used, only the last 50.

    Likewise, you just call them up, tell them how many computers you have, and they give you a price. A few minutes and many thousands of dollars later, you have a key to plug in to KMS. Magically, every Vista+ box that you have on site is licensed and activated. This can include student computers if you wish. The activations 6 months, after which time they *must* talk to the KMS server again.

    http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/resources/vol/default.mspx

    Now look. I run centos/debian/openbsd/gentoo/xp/vista/server 2008. I really hate (operating system) licensing. I hate the simple concept. But KMS is really the way to go. It takes right next to no system resources. In the KMS docs, they say that most 100k+ client customers are perfectly content with 2 KMS servers (with the same key). Next to zero system load.

    Second, Office.

    http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/suites/HA101080191033.aspx

    There is also their Software Assurance program.

    http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/sa/default.mspx

    Software Assurance has one big downside, and one big upside. The downside is that it is a yearly fee. It is more or less a subscription. The upside is that you are entitled to free upgrades of "the product" as long as you keep paying. This means that if you purchased SA on Office 2003 a year before 2007 was released, your 2003 license can be automatically upconverted to 2007 free of charge. The same applies to... all of their products. XP --> Vista --> Win7, SQL 2000 --> 2003 --> 2008, Visual Studio, the works. It is not a required upconversion either - you choose if and when you upgrade.

    As a result, buying your weight in gold worth of Software Assurance also gives you 24/7 software support. It more or less gives you everything. Tech support, upgrades, technical resources... it is essentially the equal to a Red Hat Enterprise Linux subscription in terms of the support you get, the products that you get, and the upgrades.

    Really, your best bet to understanding MS licensing is to contact one of their reps. Gather everything that you can find before hand, and give them a call. Grill them endlessly. Ask questions, and don't let them leave until you know everything you needed.

    What is the benefit of open source/free software? EVERYTHING ABOVE IS ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT.

  12. Give up now. Pick your spots intelligently. by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am being 100% honest here. I too work at a univeristy, a bit larger but same deal. You are shooting yourself in the foot big time, but well intentioned.

    There are far too many individual needs in this setting to do what you propose. Instead identify and choose a few specific spots where open source actually makes sense and offers a huge advantage (there are a couple) and make it happen. Start small and be smart about it. If it goes smoothly and shows real savings and improvements you may have earned the chance to do the same in another area.

    Openoffice sucks. Period. Large-scale monitoring and maintenance can also suck. Sometimes Mac OSX is even the best choice. You have to take off the rose-colored glasses and think critically about everyone's real needs not just your pie-in-the-sky dream.

    --
    http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
  13. Don't shortchange the whiners... by HerculesMO · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In most organizations, it takes only a small group of whiners to transition the whole of an IT focus to something else. Trust me, I've been through this battle.

    Make changes where it *makes sense*. Microsoft Office currently is best of breed, no offense meant to OpenOffice but seriously... it's not even in the same realm. Windows on the desktop obviously goes side by side with this.

    Where you can make arguments are on the backend where users don't really have a say. Say you want to launch some web servers -- go *Nix and Apache instead of MS and IIS. Want a database cluster? Go *nix and MySQL. These are changes that *can* happen.

    I have seen far too often that 'techies' get involved and just because the technology is more superior (in some way) they totally discount the business benefit from having it set up that way. What is your roadmap for the future of IT? What paths are you looking to cross? Say the CIO wants to invest some money into Sharepoint, or wants to use WIM (standard image format) for deployments, or wants to lock down users better (AD Policies). These things are *windows specific*. You can make the argument, but if you can't look at it from a business perspective, then you are already on the path to failing at your argument.

    Usually the cost of changing everything, retraining users, and getting them to be AS PRODUCTIVE as they were before is far more expensive than to keep technology the same and use branches into other things to accomplish business tasks.

    And don't say you're an educational facility... you're a business first, and any good business is in the *business* of making money or showing results. That's what you call an organizational unit :)

    Good luck to you, but make sure you have your ducks in a row before you go making arguments of vast change, because if you don't know what the future holds or what the goals are, you will just look like an idiot.

    --
    The price is always right if someone else is paying.
  14. Heh, good luck getting rid of Blackboard by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There are basically 2 choices out there, Blackboard and WebCT. Both of them rot, and there are certainly other FOSS applications that are better, but which one is used is NOT anything IT has the slightest bit of influence over.

    The factors involved are mostly related to the faculty and administration of the school. Instructors have LARGE amounts of time and energy invested in learning whichever platform they're on now. Most of them are not amazingly competent in the computer field, and they have high demands on their time already.

    Even a HINT of a suggestion that the faculty would have to say switch over all their classes to a new system would provoke instant rebellion, and in a struggle between IT and a faculty department head or dean, there is a 0.0000000% probability of IT winning.

    Not to say change is impossible, but it has to come out of admin/faculty. IT is pretty powerless in a University environment.

    --
    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
    1. Re:Heh, good luck getting rid of Blackboard by h4rm0ny · · Score: 2, Insightful


      We moved from Blackboard to Moodle at our institution. I am responsible for it and we have a very much larger installation than yours, even. But the GP is right - the instigation for the move came from a department that engaged and dealt with the academic departments. The drive did not come from the University's IT services and nor would it. IT in a university is a supporter, seldom a driver.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
  15. Re:Have you ever tried to re-seed a lawn? by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You'll need to organize training for everyone. Twice. And you'll need a kick-ass help desk for everything from copying files to equivalents of obscure Excel formulas.

    He's never prying Excel out of the hands of his accounting professors and to try to do so is fucking retarded. They simply won't do it and will continue to mandate Excel, which shoots holes in this entire game that the submitter wants to play.

    He's not going to be doing this. I get the feeling that he's a helpdesk monkey with delusions of competence, though, seeing as how he doesn't even know the cost of his Microsoft licenses...

    --
    "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
  16. Not to be negative... by mongoose(!no) · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But if you're not in a position to know how much your university spends on software and be able to compare it to how much revenue the university has, you're not in a position to really make a change to open source. Second, thinking of my dealings with fellow university students (I'm an OSS using university student as well), I know many of them would rather use the MS/proprietary version that just works than deal with often buggy open source software that's not always compatible or has bugs left and right. Your university has to deal with the outside world, which is still deeply entrenched in MS Office, unless you're going to show all your students how to export from Open Office to an MS Office format, expect a lot of complaints. Granted, Open Office isn't as buggy as some things, but if you have engineering students who need a good CAD program, don't count on finding a good open source program for them. I wish you luck, but you're really fighting the tide here.

  17. Re:Have you ever tried to re-seed a lawn? by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A "nothing but open source" policy is as terrible as a "no open source" policy. Use what's best for the job, not what fits your ideologies.

    New media departments, for example, aren't going to switch to whatever bullshit the OSS world flogs when they have Maya/3DS Max, Photoshop, and Illustrator. Blender's good but nonstandard and nobody really uses it, the GIMP sucks for all the reasons everybody already knows, and Inkscape simply does not step to Illustrator.

    It seems like most of the posters here have missed the point. Open source software at a university is not an end in and of itself. Getting the job done is.

    --
    "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
  18. *NOT* free for the *Students* by DrYak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You won't be able to win this with the money argument. Microsoft will swarm all over you, giving free stuff away. They have a fund just to give away free licenses to anyone who's even thinking about trying open source.

    They give free license (or outrageously cheap site license) for universities. *BUT* not everyone is getting the softwares for free !!!!

    No, since you're a university, the way to approach this is to let the undergrads explore.

    Also undergrads *DON'T* benefit from all softwares. Most often the students ends-up torrenting their office suites off pirate bay.
    Does the University really wants to indirectly encourage software piracy ?!?

    Usually, the licensing agreements with stuff like MSDNAA are :
    - University gets a dead cheep site license as part of MSDNAA.
    - Professors, teaching staff, etc... *DO GET* the right to obtain all these softwares *also for home*.
    but
    - Students *DO NOT* obtain license for MS-Office for home/personal laptops. They officially have *TO PAY* to get the same software that everyone else is getting for free and that everyone has declared necessary. (Usually, the students actually end up pirating it).

    MS-Office is the critical point here.
    Microsoft think that, as long as they have seeded the nest (the university) and the important influencial figure (the people giving the lessons), MS-Office will get automatically adopted as the de-facto standart and every body will start using it.
    Student will probably get pirated copies anyway, so there's no point in trying to give them free licenses. At least they are getting used to it, they get brainwashed into the notion that there's nothing else worth beside MSO (like all other sheeple), and probably 5-6 years down the line when they finish studying and enter the professional world, they will ask at their workplace to use whatever is the then MSO du jour.

    The strategy to bring open source into the university should work on two points :
    - not only going open source can save licensing money in the long run.
    - open source is also a way for the *students* to get the necessary software for home.

    Currently OpenOffice.org is functionally equivalent to MSO. (And is indeed used as a replacement in several public administrations here around in Europe)
    At least, even if the university refuses to switch open source, the *students* might be interested getting it for home because it's free, it's compatible with MSO to open university's documents, is functionally equivalent, and even is currently EASIER to migrate to from older MSO 2003 than migrating to MSO 2007, as the OOo's classical interface is closer, unlike 2007's criticized ribbons.

    So even if the university refuse to change its stance you have a way to encourage a significant part of the university's population to switch to open source.

    Now you can try to use these arguments with the university :
    - if they go with MSO, not only do they have to pay (a small) site license, but they are using a solution that WON'T be accessible to the students outside the computer labs (and everyone has seen how currently there are lots of laptops everywhere. Modern students tend to use much more a laptop they carry everywhere, rather than going to the uni computer labs).

    - if they go with OOo, the licensing is cheaper (free). They also will be offering a solution that absolutely everyone can use : teacher, staff, university computer labs, students at home, on their laptops... all this regardless of the system : Windows, Mac OS (very popular on student laptops in some richer region) or the customized Linux wich are the latest craze in the netbook segment.
    *AND* as an icing on the top of the cake, the current version of OOo will require much less retraining as it looks much more like classical MSO than latest MSO. This is a really ironic argument given the fact that usually Microsoft have always been fast to point retraining as "hidden short-term costs" against ope

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  19. Re:Remind me not to send my kid there. by tjstork · · Score: 4, Insightful

    After all, it would be down right un-American to not work my ass off to help cloth and feed a bunch of rich assholes!

    So, while we are at it then, do you want to do something about universities owning huge patent portfolios paid for by your tax dollars, while at the same time raising tuition faster than even the price of gasoline?

    --
    This is my sig.
  20. Re:Remind me not to send my kid there. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Your first statement is 100% correct. The rest of your post just screws the pooch. Example: I have three sons. Son #1 attends college, and takes something called "computer science". The kid can do a lot of magic - on a microsoft machine, IF it is set up for him. He has little concept of hardware, how the operating system works, or how to fix stuff when it's broken. Put him on a *nix box, and he's lost. Son #2 has no pertinence to this discussion. Son #3 is _almost_a_nix_nut_ That is, he likes windows, sometimes, for certain things. But, he GENERALLY prefers open source alternatives. He can field strip a laptop (blindfolded?) in no time at all, R&R faulty components, reinstall anything, configure it, and hand it back to the user, ready to run. Believe me - I strongly question the value of Son #1's higher education. I feel he has been turned into precisely the sort of proprietary zombie that Microsoft loves.... In summary - it is the duty of the university to EDUCATE students in COMPUTER SCIENCE, then let the kid run with what they learn. They shouldn't be sheltering children from the REAL WORLD where advances are happening constantly.

    --
    "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  21. Thank samba for diversity by psydeshow · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why does an organization or enterprise need to be all one OS or another? Do you really want to be responsible for the fate of an entire university's computing infrastructure?

    The "transition" to open source at your institution is already happening. Get in touch with faculty and grad students using open source tools. Encourage them to request open source software and services from the University. Work with anyone and everyone you can to make sure that the websites and application they are responsible for work with Firefox and WebKit.

    Use open source tools in your office, and document how you made it work with the University's services. Work with the IT folks when you can (cooperation is your friend!) but when you can't, or they are dragging their feet, quietly find some other way to do it.

    Unless you have a mandate from administration and funding for your own shop, you can't actually force any kind of transition. Bide your time, keep in touch with other users, and use your expertise to help out where you can.

    If you want to propose something to the administration, providing professional and secure PHP and Ruby-on-Rails services to students and faculty will do more for open source adoption than just about anything else I can think of.

    1. Re:Thank samba for diversity by psydeshow · · Score: 2, Informative

      Also, remember that rdesktop is an excellent compatibility layer for those times when only Windows will do.

  22. Re:open or closed ecosystems by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I tried CinePaint back when they still called it Film Gimp. It was a lot better than the Gimp in its core features, but it inherited its predecessor's shit UI and shit workflow. I haven't heard anything to suggest that that's changed, so I haven't spent any time with it. If I were going to be using nothing but Film Gimp I might consider it, but I actually use my tools in a novel (to OSS, anyway): in concert. I expect my tools to benefit my workflow, not hinder it by switching up everything and anything when I jump from (say) Photoshop to Illustrator.

    Inkscape - meh. Yes, it's the SVG reference implementation for all intents and purposes--good for it, I don't care about its features if it sucks at presenting them. It's a clunky tool with a poor UI and--surprise surprise!--little to speak of in terms of horizontal integration. It'd be fine if I could do everything in Inkscape without any other tools, but that's a very rare occurrence.

    Blender - eew. Internally it's not bad. The feature set is nice and it's a solid program. But...again...shit UI, shit workflow. No horizontal integration to speak of. I mean, hell. For example: I can modify a texture in Photoshop and see its effects propagate right to my textured 3D model in Maya. It's easy there. Such integration needs to be the standard with open source apps if they want to be taken seriously and it simply is not.

    The capabilities of these programs are fine (CinePaint is head-and-shoulders better than the GIMP, which is probably praising with faint damns), it's just that their workflows all suck enormous amounts of donkey cock and I don't see their workflows improving anytime soon. Don't get me wrong: it's not that I can't do what I want with the open source tools, it's that doing it sucks with the open source tools. It takes longer and is more of a hassle. And, for burgeoning professionals in a university environment, having them not use industry-standard tools is mindfuckingly stupid. People always trot out CinePaint as "oh, look, people are using this IN INDUSTRY!"--great, go CinePaint, may you someday have all the success there is. But a hell of a lot more professionals are using ProTools, Premiere, After Effects, and other proprietary software packages, so it's pretty stupid not to teach what's actually used.

    --
    "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
  23. Replace Blackboard with Moodle by MacColossus · · Score: 2, Informative

    It even runs on Windows and Mac OS X if they won't let you run it on Linux. It imports Blackboard courses. The lowest Blackboard product for our 1,200 student school was $15,000 per year. For the cost of a server and the same amount of time it takes to upgrade Blackboard you are there. Step by step documentation was so slick I set it up on Ubuntu Linux with little prior Linux server admin experience. I did have prior Mac OS X Server experience.

  24. From a faculty member... by kklein · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am an assistant professor. If you came to my office and told me to use anything, I'd kick your IT-fiddle-monkey-ass to the door.

    Here's something I really want university IT guys to get through their thick skulls:

    You work for us. Not the other way around.

    If I want to use a Windows machine, you need to figure out how to let me. If I want to use a Mac (which I do), you need to make sure I can get to my servers. If I want to use Linux (which I hope to be doing one day--when the software I need to do my research is available on the platform), I expect your support there, too.

    In the specific case of what you're proposing--moving to OSS for all everyday tasks, I have to be totally clear and honest here: You are wholly unqualified to make that call. It's not your job; it's not your responsibility; it's none of your damned business. You don't even know what I do; how could you know what I need?

    Finally, let me say this: My first jobs in academia were in IT support, and I, too, got drunk on the power. I, too, was young and full of myself, and I, too, ran around telling people what they should do, instead of listening to what it is that they needed to do, and helping them do it. Now that I'm on the other side (and older and less full of myself), I see why I pissed people off so much in those days. I sucked at my job.

    If you try to meddle in your customers' business, you suck at your job, too.

    1. Re:From a faculty member... by brainee28 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I am an assistant professor. If you came to my office and told me to use anything, I'd kick your IT-fiddle-monkey-ass to the door.

      That's because you have little respect for others based on the tirade you just posted.

      Here's something I really want university IT guys to get through their thick skulls:

      You work for us. Not the other way around.

      I'm not sure what it is that you teach, you didn't mention that; however something you may need to get through your thick skull is that professors, doctors, lawyers, and other professionals are good at their profession. They suck as any authority for IT work. They need to stop acting as if they have any experience dealing with IT whatsoever. I don't tell you how to teach your class, don't tell me or him how to run my network or his workstations

      If I want to use a Windows machine, you need to figure out how to let me. If I want to use a Mac (which I do), you need to make sure I can get to my servers. If I want to use Linux (which I hope to be doing one day--when the software I need to do my research is available on the platform), I expect your support there, too.

      No, you run what the university deems as the most cost effective, safest software they can use. Your needs are of a lower priority than the security, safety and reliability of the University's IT department. They are entrusted with that, not you. They entrust you to provide knowledge and experience to students; stick to that.

      In the specific case of what you're proposing--moving to OSS for all everyday tasks, I have to be totally clear and honest here: You are wholly unqualified to make that call. It's not your job; it's not your responsibility; it's none of your damned business. You don't even know what I do; how could you know what I need?

      That may be true. He may be unqualified to make the final call. But IT's is responsible for your network stability, security, and support. It should be their call as to how to handle this, as university professors do not know enough about computer networks and systems to be qualified either. You're a rarity in a bunch of academics that have no more training than the average office worker.

      Finally, let me say this: My first jobs in academia were in IT support, and I, too, got drunk on the power. I, too, was young and full of myself, and I, too, ran around telling people what they should do, instead of listening to what it is that they needed to do, and helping them do it. Now that I'm on the other side (and older and less full of myself), I see why I pissed people off so much in those days. I sucked at my job.

      If you try to meddle in your customers' business, you suck at your job, too.

      You seem to forget that yours and others workflow is based upon a device given to you for your use by the university. These are their tools; not yours. Your workflow needs to conform to their standards of operation for IT, not how you would run things.

      It is unprofessional to suggest that you, an academic, should be the deciding factor in how IT infrastructure is run. Again this is like me coming into your classroom and telling you how to run your class; I wouldn't do it, so where's your justification for why you see fit to tell IT how to do their job?

      How you choose to run your computers and/or networks at home is your business, but at a business or at a university, you run your system the way the business or university designates it, and if IT designates that you run using certain products, then you'll run them that way. If you were running on my network, you run what I say you can run, end of story.