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You Are Not a Lawyer

Paul Ohm is starting a new "very occasional" feature on the Freedom To Tinker blog called You Are Not a Lawyer — "In this series, I will try to disabuse computer scientists and other technically minded people of some commonly held misconceptions about the law (and the legal system)." In the first installment, Ohm walks through the reasons why many techies' faith in the presence of "reasonable doubt" is so misplaced. "When techies think about criminal law, and in particular crimes committed online, they tend to fixate on [the 'beyond a reasonable doubt'] legal standard, dreaming up ways people can use technology to inject doubt into the evidence to avoid being convicted. I can't count how many conversations I have had with techies about things like the 'open wireless access point defense,' the 'trojaned computer defense,' the 'NAT-ted firewall defense,' and the 'dynamic IP address defense.' ... People who place stock in these theories and tools are neglecting an important drawback. There are another set of legal standards — the legal standards governing search and seizure — you should worry about long before you ever get to 'beyond a reasonable doubt.'"

29 of 693 comments (clear)

  1. Ohm's Law? by loshwomp · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sounds like the piece should be called "Ohm's Law".

    1. Re:Ohm's Law? by lastchance_000 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'll start a feature called "You are not a techie."

      My first entry? Make sure your webserver/webhost is up to snuff before letting /. loose on it.

    2. Re:Ohm's Law? by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 5, Funny

      Years ago I saw a US Air Force training document refer to "Ohm's Three Laws".
      V=IR, I=V/R, and R=V/I. :P

    3. Re:Ohm's Law? by FalseModesty · · Score: 5, Funny

      (2) Academic lawyers generally have a slanted view on the world

      As opposed to ACs?

    4. Re:Ohm's Law? by 3dr · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think he's going to get a lot of resistance fighting the current of Techie Law Knowledge.

    5. Re:Ohm's Law? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You think that's bad - My parents are worse.

      I mean, with the last name Coward, who in the hell names their kid Anonymous?!?

    6. Re:Ohm's Law? by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 4, Funny

      A couple of considerations...

      Here is one more:
      (4) If you are not in the US, US law does not apply.

    7. Re:Ohm's Law? by Repton · · Score: 3, Funny

      But what about Ohm's Fourth Law, V/IR=1?

      --
      Repton.
      They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
  2. Pfft, lawyers by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Funny

    Difference between them and us?

    • Techie: If you don't know how to do what I do, then learn.
    • Lawyer: If you don't know how to do what I do, pay me $500 an hour or your children will die penniless in the gutter.
    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    1. Re:Pfft, lawyers by JustinOpinion · · Score: 3, Funny

      Problem is IT guys are whores. we give up our craft for free at the drop of a hat.

      Whores don't give anything away for free. Sluts do.

      Techies are sluts. Lawyers are whores. Personally I prefer sluts to whores, but YMMV.

  3. IPBIC* by paiute · · Score: 5, Funny

    IANAL
    YANAL

    then who the hell is a lawyer?
    TWTHIAL?

    WWJD?
    JWRTFM!

    *I post because I care

    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    1. Re:IPBIC* by fan777 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Jesus would ride the fucking motorcycle?

      That doesn't make any sense.

  4. YANAL by shma · · Score: 4, Funny

    Y not?

    --
    I came here for a good argument
  5. Is Paul Ohm a Lawyer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    It sure does not sound like this guy is much of a lawyer based on that craptacular display of writing. He does not seem to back up any of his arguments with things a lawyer usually includes in a law article such as citations, jurisprudence, and you know, actual evidence.

    I guess law school + blog = expert

  6. Oh praise ...whatever! by Samschnooks · · Score: 2, Funny
    I can't wait until he goes into Civil Torts and IP law especially about the GPL - I hope. I really hate it when I have a question and some IANAL chimes in with an opinion and says that "it's right there in the GPL in black and white" and how can I be so stupid as to not understand it! But yet, folks get into trouble with it all the time without any intent on malice. The GPL is all legalese that I don't understand and therefore, I will not use it or software under it for commercial use without advice from an IP attorney and since I can't afford one, I will not use the GPL.

    I guess I'm too stupid to use GPL software.

  7. Re:Reasonable Doubt. by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    At least people expect the cops to break down your door in the U.S. Nobody expects the...

    Oh, forget it.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  8. Well, at least if you are not a lawyer . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2, Funny

    . . . you won't be among the first against the wall when The Revolution comes.

    Hard skills, like hacking Perl scripts to keep The Leader supplied with porn, will trump soft skills, like litigating about microwaving poodles.

    Beware . . . it IS coming . . .

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  9. I'm not? by iamangry · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hmm, yeah, I guess I forgot I wasn't a lawyer. I'm glad I have /. to keep track of these sorts of things for me. Thanks ./ !

  10. Re:Legal standards of search and seizure by FalseModesty · · Score: 4, Funny

    I never got in trouble as a kid. but then I was aware of my location and had a scanner in my pocket with a earphone in all the time.

    Wow. Just seriously paranoid, or did you commit lots of crimes?

  11. Re:LEARN by metamechanical · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yes, people do have to use an ounce of cation online.

    I prefer to use an ounce of anion, but I guess I'm just a negative kind of guy.

    --
    If I had a nickel for every time I had a nickel, I'd be richcursive!
  12. Re:Legal standards of search and seizure by Paracelcus · · Score: 5, Funny

    Encrypt everything, hide everything, obfuscate everything, always assume that THEY are out to get you. Keep your bags packed at an alternate (undisclosed) location, keep some cash hidden and have an extra passport ready (always lose the first one they send you) in case they confiscate your first. Always pay cash, wear a broad brimmed hat and large dark glasses in public, grow a beard (you can quickly change you appearance by shaving). Use anonymous pay as you go cellphones or be careful what you say over the phone, keep your phone turned off and the battery removed.

      Remember it ain't paranoia if they really are out to get you!

    --
    I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
  13. Re:Legal standards of search and seizure by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Friends that got nailed a LOT and watched their pain. Also I had a brother that got nailed and was ground up through the system.

    when you see it happen and pay attention, you know what happens and what to do to stay away from it. I also was a big protester in college.. I was never arrested because I would not be stupid and dress like the others protesting. I always looked like a innocent bystander on purpose..

    Once when asked by a cop why I was holding a sign I said, "some cute chick over there gave it to me, I dont want to drop it and litter" He took the sign as a favor to me.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  14. Re:Wow! Who ever would have guessed that!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Never mind your fucking Venn diagrams.

    !?

    *squints his eyes*

    You just made a powerful enemy.

  15. Re:Totally off topic now but what the hell by digitig · · Score: 4, Funny

    Two of the Roman Catholic priests in the town I used to live in were Father John Lennon and Father Michael Jackson. To their credit, they never did put on the seemingly inevetable and ultimately disappointing fundraising concert double-bill.

    --
    Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
  16. XKCD by Rei · · Score: 5, Funny

    As always, XKCD has already covered this. ;)

    --
    And I'd like to be the king of all Londinium and wear a shiny hat.
    1. Re:XKCD by DrgnDancer · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's a really big wrench

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
  17. Re:Wow! Who ever would have guessed that!? by Sj0 · · Score: 3, Funny

    PROTIP: Memorizing Latin phrases doesn't actually mean you didn't manage to completely miss the point of the post by quoting the example of his point, then reiterating the point he was trying to make.

    --
    It's been a long time.
  18. Re:You fell victim to one of the classic blunders by russotto · · Score: 2, Funny

    Smart people make mistakes too. More often in areas where they lack expertise. Even though in an abstract way you know all these things, in practice, they elude many people who really ought to know better. Just ask Hans Reiser how well his cunning plan worked out in practice.

    Hans's plan:
    1) Kill wife
    2) Hide body where cops can't find it
    3) Throw up smokescreen in court
    4) Don't testify at trial in such a way that makes me look like a murdering loon.

    You'd have thought 1, 2 and 3 were the hard ones, but sometimes the simplest things trip you up...

  19. Other series for geeks by TheSync · · Score: 2, Funny

    1) "You are not an economist"
    2) "You are not a political scientist or expert in public choice theory"
    3) "You are not a businessperson"
    4) "You are not a pick-up artist"