Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Dell Selling Dual-Boot Laptops

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the hey-wait-a-minute dept.

rsmiller510 writes "The EE Times reports this week that Dell has released a hybrid laptop running both Linux and Windows clearly aimed at business travelers. Linux for quick tasks and Windows for more intensive ones, but will such a machine really fly in the business world?"

26 of 289 comments (clear)

  1. Will it fly? by erroneus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    NO!

    Rebooting is a chore. Once people start up, they don't want to shut down to start up another application. It's not what they are used to. On the other hand, if this were done as a VM where the Linux machine were to boot and they installed Windows XP in a VirtualBox or some other VM, then that might be acceptable. Then they would have their safer, virus-free environment for email and web browsing and then a VM to host the applications they need to run. This stuff works really well.

    1. Re:Will it fly? by Yvanhoe · · Score: 5, Funny

      It will fly, but you have to leave the laptop out of the bag for security check. Have a nice flight sir...

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    2. Re:Will it fly? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I agree. And you can even suspend/hibernate/resume and both OSes will retain their state. This is what I did for my wife's laptop. She occasionally needs Windows for a few things (like loading/converting other people's Microsoft Publisher or Visio files), and it works great. Just make sure you buy lots of RAM.

      --
      My blog
    3. Re:Will it fly? by jandersen · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What they should do - what I am sure someone will do at some point - is to make an "LPARable" PC/laptop after the same general principle as IBM's newest pSeries servers. The system would come with a VM hypervisor in NVRAM, as the "BIOS", and all other systems would run under that, concurrently.

    4. Re:Will it fly? by dokebi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If the ARM side has access to the hard disk and wireless, I'll definitely be running it in ARM mode for 10x the battery life.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, articles before post read *you*!
    5. Re:Will it fly? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That'll change. 64-bit OSes are now mainstream -- and even VMs are becoming mainstream -- so it's only a matter of time before chipset and mobo manufacturers push the limits of more and more of their consumer-grade commodity stuff beyond the previous '4GB barrier'.

      --
      My blog
    6. Re:Will it fly? by chaim79 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The new 17inch Macbook Pro's have an 8gb limit.

      Dell XPS line of laptops also have an 8gb limit.

      It may take a while for that standard to trickle down to the lower end laptops, but the trend at least has started.

      --
      DEMETRIUS: Villain, what hast thou done?
      AARON: Villain, I have done thy mother.
      Shakespeare invents 'your mom'
    7. Re:Will it fly? by kimvette · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hmm, a Linux laptop would also fly if it were in Ballmer's presence and he ran out of chairs. . .

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    8. Re:Will it fly? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wouldn't write this one off too soon. This isn't a simple dual boot which, I admit, is largely pointless in this context. This is a setup where you can either run Linux on an embedded ARM core, or Windows on the main x86. The Linux option won't just be for a slightly shorter boot time, it will be for vastly longer runtime, which could well be interesting to a fair few people under many circumstances.

    9. Re:Will it fly? by causality · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes, Linux supports NTFS. You've referenced the right module NTFS-3G. Ubuntu has had this module included by default since version 7.10: gutsy gibbon. Prior to that, it had to be manually installed.

      I run a windows XP / Ubuntu 7.10 dual boot setup at home & the NTFS support is great. Ubuntu can read and write to both windows & linux partitions flawlessly. All of your windows files are accessible in the linux mode. I think that there is a slight performance hit (10% or so) for using linux rather than windows to write to the ntfs partition.

      The sole downside to that arrangement is that it does not provide any facility for fsck-type maintainance of the NTFS filesystem. The NTFS-3G userspace driver unfortunately does not come bundled with anything of the sort and I've had difficulty trying to find a standalone fsck.ntfs type of program. You can find good programs to read, write, and resize an NTFS filesystem but no Open Source software seems able to repair one. I'd love to find out I'm wrong about this. A friend of mine used a setup like this and eventually experienced a small amount of data loss after unexpected shutdowns (power failures) that were not immediately repaired like Windows would have done on bootup.

      If anyone does know a reliable way to repair NTFS filesystems under Linux without actually running Windows, please let me know. Otherwise I'd recommend staying away from NTFS filesystems if at all possible or considering an alternative like FAT32 (as terrible as that may be). If you don't mind Windows having read-only access to your data, you may want to try the EXT2/3 driver for Windows as an alternative.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    10. Re:Will it fly? by SnarfQuest · · Score: 4, Funny

      But, will it blend?

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    11. Re:Will it fly? by lmfr · · Score: 4, Informative

      ntfsfix is the equivalent fsck.ntfs

      It comes in the package ntfsprogs.

    12. Re:Will it fly? by causality · · Score: 3, Informative

      ntfsfix is the equivalent fsck.ntfs

      It comes in the package ntfsprogs.

      I appreciate you pointing this out but I looked into it and unfortunately it looks like a partial solution.

      From the output of "man ntfsfix":

      DESCRIPTION
      ntfsfix is a utility that fixes some common NTFS problems. ntfsfix is NOT a Linux version of chkdsk. It only repairs some fundamental NTFS inconsistencies, resets the NTFS journal file and schedules an NTFS consistency check for the first boot into Windows.

      Regretably, that does not make me feel very confident. Filesystem integrity is one of the few areas where I really must insist on a complete solution. I don't take that position because I want to but because it's dictated by necessity. Preventable data loss or even the possibility of such is simply not acceptable to me.

      Just my personal opinion, I don't really consider trying to play catch-up with Microsoft's proprietary standards (or even when the standards are published, their proprietary implementations) to be a sound idea especially when truly open alternatives are readily available. I just feel like you're always going to have problems like this that you can never completely overcome because you're playing someone else's game. Considering the inherent difficulty of this task, the progress that Open Source has made is really quite amazing but I just don't consider this to be anything like an ideal solution.

      Microsoft created NTFS, they own it, they can "upgrade" or change it on a whim, and they have no interest in anyone else being able to work with it. That's the nature of the situation and it's beyond our control. Therefore, to me, NTFS compatibility is very much like a dual-boot setup; it is to be avoided unless truly necessary.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
  2. Re:I could see this making sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Once they innevitably complete botch their windows partition: I could imagine some people trying linux.

  3. Isn't this a dupe? Not just dual boot... by argent · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hasn't this already been seen, a couple months ago when Dell announced it?

    It's not just dual boot, the Linux boot is on a low power ARM CPU, so not only does it boot fast you should get significantly more battery life when running Linux.

  4. Dupe? by Bearhouse · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's not dual-booting really, you either run Linux on an ARM, or Windows on a Core2.

    Link at end to the original EE article, rather than gushy blog.

    Did we not cover this earlier this week?

    http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=3TF41VYEZTQY0QSNDLRSKHSCJUNN2JVN?articleID=213402554&printable=true&printable=true

  5. Bassk askwards by LittleLebowskiUrbanA · · Score: 4, Funny

    Should read Linux for intensive tasks and Windows for Powerpoint.

    --
    This guy is way out there
  6. Re:I could see this making sense by erroneus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Wooo! Now That is a perspective that had not entered my mind! Suddenly Windows becomes "broken-slow" mode and Linux becomes "Reliable Backup" mode.

    A Linux "spare tire" might well be a good way to prove its reliability to the average user/consumer.

  7. Bad for Linux by Jahf · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The author seems to think that exposure to Linux here might convince people to leave Windows. I strongly disagree.

    I used to be in technical marketing for a desktop Linux distro. People listen to the marketing message especially when it is negative. What does that mean? Well lets look at the implied marketing message that is given by this system:

    "Linux is good enough for your quick tasks like firing off an email but you need Windows to do your heavy hitting."

    ANY corporate non-techie is going to see that if they have to boot Windows to get their big tasks done they obviously don't want Linux on their main system.

    Now let us think about the actual environment you get with each:

    Linux - Arm processor ... limited applications. The non-techie won't know that they've been artificially limited by the laptop manufacturer. They're just going to know that "Linux is slow" and "I can't download new apps in Linux".

    Windows - Intel processor ... full applications and no limit on downloading new software.

    Seriously ... things like this are the WORST thing possible for getting the idea of Linux as a desktop replacement out to the mass market. They not only have to fight the current battles regarding custom apps not being written for them but they add artificial misperceptions about the limitations of Linux.

    Sometimes no exposure -is- better than bad exposure. If you look only at the bullet points it is cool that a laptop is shipping Linux. And if you can keep your bosses from ever reading the parts about using Linux in a limited way (and NEVER let them touch one of these) then it would be good. But you can't. And you can't control the perception that Linux is limited once they start using it in a stunted environment like this.

    --
    It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
  8. Re:This is new? by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is different because the Linux install does not run on the relatively power-hungry x86 chip.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  9. Re:Honestly by Falstius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You can run your installed windows partition under a VM and avoid having to reboot at all.

  10. Easily enhanced by johnw · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Surely the obvious thing to do with this is to scrub Windows and install Linux on the other processor too. Then you can have low-power instant-on Linux for long battery life and quick tasks, then a fairly transparent transition to high power Linux when you want to do something requiring more grunt. It would be interesting to see whether you can have both running at the same time and communicating with each other.

    1. Re:Easily enhanced by i.r.id10t · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Interesting... share your home directory (diff partition) between the 2 oses, and you wouldn't even need to move settings around... Boot the ARM version for long battery life, boot the x86 side when you want lots of speed.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
  11. Linux is ready for business - Why use Windows? by doodlebumm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My Dell Latitude D820 is loaded up with Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex. My co-workers use Windows. Yesterday I got our department Sprint data card. They told me it would probably take me a bit to get it working on the laptop (because it took them a while to get the driver installed and setup to run). So I took the card and inserted it into the PCMCIA slot. In about 20 seconds (without my doing ANYTHING else) it was connected to Sprint's network and I was using it like the laptop was born to use it.

    I use it for doing every task that I have to do for work. There are over ten thousand windows users here at work. We went through a big change from Groupwise to Exchange and Outlook. I use Evolution, and I get complete access to everything I need - scheduling, email, the works.

    When people say that Linux is not ready for business use, they smoking somethin' that making them see the world in a false and distorted way. I'll never go back to Windows.

  12. Summary is bad (as usual) by drsmithy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Linux install is actually running out of a little embedded ARM card, not the main system. Dell call it Latitude ON, and it's activated by a dedicated button near the power button.

    Since suspending/hibernating (rather than sleeping) a Windows laptop usually means you got through much of the boot process anyway (where this thing can kick in), it *might* have some practical value.

    Unfortunately I got my E4300 before Latitude ON was available, but I was under the impression that when it was finalised, I'd get the necessary upgrade for free.

    Might have to give my Dell rep a call...

  13. Problem with "Dual-Hibernate" by yet-another-lobbyist · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I once thought this "Dual-Hibernate" (suspend-to-disk) was a great idea. However, I ran into real trouble as soon as I wanted to exchange data between the two partitions. Trying to mount an NTFS partition in Linux that was left hibernated by Windows can create a real mess. More generally, think of file systems in which you do not really have control at what time the data is actually physically written onto the disk. Having all the data on a third partition that is unmounted before hibernating in either of the two OSs could work, though.

    I have no idea how a "Dual-Suspend" would work if you mean "suspend-to-RAM"! How can you even start the other OS while one is in suspend? How do you tell each OS to only use a part of the memory?