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Competition For the App Store Is Mounting

MojoKid writes "Right now the only real 'competition' to Apple's App Store is the Android Market. Presently, anyone using an Android-based phone can download applications from the Android Market, which first started offering free applications in October '08. A drawback to Android application developers, however, is the fact that the potential Android Market user base is fairly small right now, as there is presently only one Android phone available, the T-Mobile G1. However, in the coming months we're also going to see more app stores come online for additional smartphone platforms. Nokia will officially launch an app store for its Symbian OS-based smartphones at Mobile World Congress on Monday. Microsoft is also getting in the game for smartphones that run the Windows Mobile OS, with Steve Ballmer delivering the keynote speech at Mobile World Congress as well."

136 comments

  1. Third-party app stores are coming, too! by radimvice · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The company I work for launched a public beta of our third-party app store this week, called Xpressed (the site is brand new, so feedback is welcome). Unlike the app stores mentioned in this article, it's a true "third-party" app store meaning that we're unaffiliated with any device manufacturer or carrier, and so we plan to support any and all phones out on the market that allow applications to be downloaded and installed from non-proprietary websites. Right now this pretty much means most of the Java-based phones on the market (several hundred current phones, plus the hundreds more old and obsolete devices).

    It will be interesting to see which model wins out after all of the industry players have their say in this growing application space - whether manufacturer-supported app stores (presumably) integrated with the devices themselves will continue to dominate, or whether third-party app stores like Xpressed will be able to find a footing, especially among developers targeting their apps across multiple platforms.

    1. Re:Third-party app stores are coming, too! by alsutton · · Score: 1

      "Right now this pretty much means most of the Java-based phones on the market"...

      If you think it's limited to J2ME 'phones then have a look at AndAppStore.com who've been offering Android apps for months and aren't Google affiliated in any way.

    2. Re:Third-party app stores are coming, too! by Animaether · · Score: 3, Informative

      Although I would say that your 'app store' isn't so much an 'app store' as a 'game store', I think my biggest beef with all of the 'app stores' out there is that they already existed in one form or another.

      One of the biggest sites for mobile downloads, for example, is Handango. It carries utilities, tools, games, etc. for all of the open platforms (e.g. no iPhone, obviously).

      So the availability has never been a problem, and opening a new 'app store' that does much the same isn't going to make things much better.
      ( I will say, though, that judging by the flashy banners, you guys are at least offering a little extra (e.g. the subscription plan and the app that will let users keep an eye on apps from their own mobile device )

      The reason the Apple app store is as successful as it is, is because you can manage everything from that single site - browsing, buying, downloading, installing. Once installed, it's also guaranteed to *work* on your mobile device; yes, I know, that's rather easy since there only really is 1 'device', but if you keep in mind how many of the apps for, say, Windows Mobile come in at least 2 different flavors just to deal with square display vs 4:3 display devices, not to mention the resolution separation, then a user easily gets lost.

      Thankfully, you were smart enough to add a filter-by-phone so that only compatible games are listed... but then you have to make absolutely sure you get (or collect) the correct information and you have to keep up-to-date on all of the different phone models out there... that's nearly a day-job for one of your staff.

      Anyway - good luck with the site, it looks polished (I'm not a big fan of the animated bits, but I know your target audience is), the featureset and what-does-it-offer-extra-over-other-sites looks pretty good (for those who missed it - click on a game, there's a good chance you can play it on-line for 10 minutes so you can decide whether or not it's something you'd like to actually buy... that's brilliant), it's a bit slow to navigate at the moment but that might just be other slashdotters eating your bandwidth a bit.

    3. Re:Third-party app stores are coming, too! by rolfwind · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The reason the Apple app store is as successful as it is, is because you can manage everything from that single site - browsing, buying, downloading, installing. Once installed, it's also guaranteed to *work* on your mobile device; yes, I know, that's rather easy since there only really is 1 'device', but if you keep in mind how many of the apps for, say, Windows Mobile come in at least 2 different flavors just to deal with square display vs 4:3 display devices, not to mention the resolution separation, then a user easily gets lost.

      Well, if Apple ever wants to upgrade its iPhone's display resolution for play with the form factor, hopefully the API can handle that easily enough without most apps having overlapping elements and the like. But I'm sure that apps will eventually have compatibility icons for which versions of the iPhone its guaranteed to work with (when there are more versions in the future).

      Truth be told, I'm surprised Apple doesn't ship an App Store with regular OS X computers by now. It would basically be their version of a repository, so reduce possibilities of malware by going to 3rd party sites plus I know enough people who have problems installing Apple programs (yes, they are that computer illiterate). It would make the newbs completely comfortable with buying, downloading, installing, and deciding whether to have the icon in the dock (with a checkmark) in one shot. Plus, it probably would drive some extra life into developing for the Mac - especially if developers don't have to bother with their own website and can expect decent payback.

    4. Re:Third-party app stores are coming, too! by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      Well, if Apple ever wants to upgrade its iPhone's display resolution for play with the form factor, hopefully the API can handle that easily enough without most apps having overlapping elements and the like. But I'm sure that apps will eventually have compatibility icons for which versions of the iPhone its guaranteed to work with (when there are more versions in the future).

      It's been a while since I was reading about the iPhone SDK but IIRC it's both possible and recommended to write your apps in a resolution-independent manner although I'm sure there are people out there doing things that would make Apple's engineers wonder if they're deliberately trying to make sure their apps AREN'T resolution independent...

      /Mikael

      --
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    5. Re:Third-party app stores are coming, too! by wampus · · Score: 1

      Me too! Wait, what? Shouldn't you be shitting this out on CNN or NYTimes or something at least tangentially related to your little copypasta screed?

    6. Re:Third-party app stores are coming, too! by Tacvek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Handango is currently severely broken, now that it requires you to specify which mobile device you are using, even if all that is relevant is what version of the OS you are using.

      I should be able to specify that I want to see All applications compatible with Windows Mobile 6 PPC (as opposed to Windows Mobile Smartphone which ironically refers to phones without touchscreens (i.e. what most people would call dumb-phones)), including the applications that require the presence of a phone.

      As it is right now, if I go to select my device it is listed in the system under two different names (same phone hardware, but different branding, and small case-only differences). Both of these are include only a subset of all compatible software Handango sells, and more annoyingly both names for the same phone do not result in the same list of applications.

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    7. Re:Third-party app stores are coming, too! by radimvice · · Score: 1

      If you think it's limited to J2ME 'phones then have a look at AndAppStore.com who've been offering Android apps for months and aren't Google affiliated in any way.

      Java != J2ME. The Android platform is most certainly also Java-based, even though it's a little different from Sun's CLDC/MIDP/J2ME platform, and third-party app stores can definitely support those devices as well, as we also have plans to down the road.

    8. Re:Third-party app stores are coming, too! by davester666 · · Score: 1

      What kind of cut does the developer get to keep, if they sell their game through your store?

      What about returns/refunds?

      There doesn't seem to be any information about the developer-side of your store.

      --
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    9. Re:Third-party app stores are coming, too! by radimvice · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the comments, and yeah I should have mentioned that we're focusing on games specifically for now. The site is still very beta so we're still trying to figure out the best parts to focus on building and improving.

      I think my biggest beef with all of the 'app stores' out there is that they already existed in one form or another.

      Well, sure, but in a much lesser form. There have always been sites that can put up a bunch of Java games for sale, but I wouldn't consider those sites to be the same class of store that Apple first introduced, and that all of the upcoming 'app store competition' will offer. The huge difference is the level of integration with the device and with the user. You maintain an account with the App Store where you can manage all of your purchases, downloads and payment information, rather than just perform a one-time download of a file off a website. You also have a customized catalog application on the phone itself that makes it much more convenient to find and download new applications. Apple also included a very usable developer SDK which really paved the way for small, independent developers to start making applications themselves.

      Finally, there's the huge task of creating an easy to use system through which developers can submit and publish their own paid applications, and receive a split of the proceeds. Setting this up is actually the biggest challenge in my opinion, as well as one of the biggest draws that will bring publishers to these new stores (and I assume that this is why Google took so long to open up the Android store to paid applications).

      If these features are not present in the upcoming competition then it wouldn't be fair to even put them in the same category, since this is precisely what distinguishes these new efforts from the existing third-party application portal sites that have already been around for years. If all we're going to see from these is just more of the same sort of pre-App Store mobile application portals, then that would definitely be a step backward.

    10. Re:Third-party app stores are coming, too! by samkass · · Score: 1

      The current iPhone SDK makes no assumptions about screen size, and Interface Builder lets you specify how things shift/squeeze as the screen size changes. That being said, there are third-party game libraries that encourage such assumptions that may take some tweaking. But not much. Moving to alternate screen sizes is going to be pretty easy, and Apple already has an app compatibility mechanism so apps can declare their compatibility.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    11. Re:Third-party app stores are coming, too! by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      It's been a while since I was reading about the iPhone SDK but IIRC it's both possible and recommended to write your apps in a resolution-independent manner although I'm sure there are people out there doing things that would make Apple's engineers wonder if they're deliberately trying to make sure their apps AREN'T resolution independent...

      That's practically a definitive. One thing that's a truism in the developer world is, developers are stupid. They will do things you don't wnat them to. Windows has a huge pile of application patches (yes, Windows may patch binaries!) in order to make it run, because the developer does something stupid. It's so bad that Microsoft has teams dedicated to testing applications because developers are so bad. And that's not including stuff like i18n compatibility.

      Apple has the same issue, but their traditional stance is basically "if you're doing stupid things, you deserve it when things stop working". They will make sure that if you do things properly, it should go fine, but taking shortcuts or not doing stuff you need to do, and they won't bend over backwards to make it work.

    12. Re:Third-party app stores are coming, too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are absolutely right about the 'guaranteed to work' aspect of the mobile experience. Having a lot of content for a lot of devices while important is only part of the equation. Users need to be able to quickly find out what a given site has available for either the device they have (most cases) or the one they may be considering.

      Creating a simple yet reliable system for consumers to help them automatically identify the device they have (because most of them simply don't know the exact model numbers) is key for any 'App Store'.

      The other aspect which you noted there was the subscription plan. That's pretty interesting in itself. Given relative expense of individual games having an all you can eat plan gives users lots of options (hopefully the catalog of games will grow over time as well). The other thing it gives the operator of the store potential bonanza of metrics on how, what, when the users play. That data could be very interesting to developers who may discover that on some devices typical per session play time on any game is say 4mins.

  2. Not because there's only 1 by beelsebob · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A drawback to Android application developers, however, is the fact that the potential Android Market user base is fairly small right now, as there is presently only one Android phone available, the T-Mobile G1.
    No, there's only one iPhone too... the drawback is that no one wants a G1, because it's a cheep plasticy lump of crap.

    1. Re:Not because there's only 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      iPhone 3G vs. iPhone 2.5G

    2. Re:Not because there's only 1 by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      Eh, I have one. It's really not that bad. Anyway, you neglect to mention that the G1 has only been available for 4 months, and in two countries - contrast with the iPhone which has been around since 2007 and has had international presence for much longer.

    3. Re:Not because there's only 1 by alsutton · · Score: 1

      My problem with the G1 is it just "feel" right. I have a G1 and a Sony Ericsson c702 and I find I use the c702 all the time, and the G1 only sees the light of day when someone asks me what it's like.

      It's bulky, there no virtual keyboard so you need to pop the keyboard to type anything, it's camera is pretty poor, and Android is sluggish on it (sometimes I need to tap two or three times to get a response to something, and I know the phone has detected the press because the icon flashes).

      But who knows, but the time Android is right for the prime time, we may all have bought Nokias :) :) :)

    4. Re:Not because there's only 1 by ivucica · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I for one extremely dislike virtual keyboards. It's quite clumsy to type on them, unless you have a stylus, and even then I'd prefer Graffiti. I don't mean Graffiti-like method, I mean Graffiti; both Graffiti2 from Palm and Letter Recognizer from MS are bad. Transcriber may be interesting ... if I only wanted to enter English text. In full. All the time.

      I use acronyms, I use Croatian language, I use programming language keywords and variable names. I don't enter plain English text.

      Graffiti is the best entry method to date, seconded by physical keyboards of any format.

    5. Re:Not because there's only 1 by wfWebber · · Score: 1

      I'm the other way around. I bought a developer phone (basically an unlocked G1) to see if it would be a reasonable platform to develop for. I switched from my HTC Touch HD (which I thought was one of the best phones around) and haven't looked back since. This is the phone that feels great. It's fast, it has a shitload of great little apps and hasn't let me down once so far. I've tried Symbian, WinMo and all kinds of other stuff, but Android really works best. Of course the G1 has issues; the battery sucks big time and it could have been half it size. The moment that's fixed, the competition really has something to watch out for.

      --
      Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum
    6. Re:Not because there's only 1 by smilindog2000 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've had an iPhone, and currently own a T-Mobile G1. In short, Android is a solid competitor (the only competitor IMO) to the iPhone OS. The actual G1 phone however, sucks big time, as GP suggests, though he didn't get close as to why:

      - The speaker slot gets clogged with lint, and now I have trouble hearing the phone
      - While the camera has auto-focus and more pixels than iPhone, HTC screwed up with a crappy lens that ruins all photos
      - There's no headphone jack. Instead, HTC provides crappy headphones using a non-standard extension to the micro-USB jack
      - The phone is too thick, and not nearly as sleek or well designed or packaged as the iPhone
      - The battery is tiny in comparison to the iPhone.

      Basically, some US company (Qualcom? T-Mobile?) must have said "Here's the specs for you, HTC", and then HTC delivered on the specs, but screwed up the phone.

      While there are fewer users of the G1, there are proportionally fewer developers. Many of the best application spaces are already dominated on iPhone, while they're still open on Android. I believe that future Android phones will gain in market share vs iPhone, making development for Android a wise choice.

      --
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    7. Re:Not because there's only 1 by binarylarry · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One important thing for developers is that you can develop on any platform for the G1 with the G1 dev kit.

      You have to purchase an Apple computer to develop for the iPhone.

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    8. Re:Not because there's only 1 by blind+biker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I for one extremely dislike virtual keyboards. It's quite clumsy to type on them, unless you have a stylus, and even then I'd prefer Graffiti.

      Not to mention that they are impossible to use by blind people, and hard to use by visually-impaired people.

      Sure, I know Slashdot readers don't give a fuck about the needs of impaired people - but it's a minority that has otherwise great potential. I'd love to see manufacturers targeting specifically blind and visually-impaired people as part of their strategy.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    9. Re:Not because there's only 1 by EvilNTUser · · Score: 1

      I'd love to see manufacturers targeting specifically blind and visually-impaired people as part of their strategy.

      They're called "keypads". You may have heard of them. Most phones even have voice dial.

      OMG blind people can't use all technologies! Society is putting someone down AGAIN!

      --
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    10. Re:Not because there's only 1 by Rutefoot · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Blind and visually impaired people are a small fraction of the population. There is a much larger market being neglected with many touch screen systems.

      People who don't live in sunny California who have to wear gloves for part of the year. It's actually been the deciding factor around our Toronto office when coworkers have been picking their new smart phone. Most have been opting for non-touch screen phones, or the Blackberry Storm. The inability to use the iPhone without hassle while you're on the go has ruined its chances of entering the business market.

    11. Re:Not because there's only 1 by quacking+duck · · Score: 1

      Take a modern smartphone, with physical buttons for every letter. A blind person could feel his way around the buttons to type something, but how often are they going to? Why send SMS back and forth, only to have the phone use text-to-speech to read it out, why not just call the person in the first place?

      Someone who's merely visually impaired might actually be better served with a virtual keyboard; the iPhone's keys are not only larger than the Blackberries I've seen, it zooms in on the key you're pressing so you see what's about to be typed (if it's wrong, keep pressing while you move your finger to the correct key).

      There are lots of impaired people with great potential, not just the blind, but not everything can be adapted for every impairment. In most places blind people also cannot drive a car. Stephen Hawking will never be able to use an iPhone or other smartphone practically.

      The size limitations of the typical smartphone, never mind the all-visual iPhone, severely hampers their utility to the truly blind. And there are already mobile devices specifically for them

    12. Re:Not because there's only 1 by lunartik · · Score: 3, Informative

      I have a G1 and an iPod touch. If I am somewhere with wifi I find myself using the iPod to surf the net or check email. I thought I would prefer the G1 for the keyboard, but I don't think it's interface is that great, the apps I get are either buggy, not very useful or not very well done and it seems to hang a lot.

    13. Re:Not because there's only 1 by lunartik · · Score: 2, Insightful

      People who don't live in sunny California who have to wear gloves for part of the year. It's actually been the deciding factor around our Toronto office when coworkers have been picking their new smart phone. Most have been opting for non-touch screen phones, or the Blackberry Storm. The inability to use the iPhone without hassle while you're on the go has ruined its chances of entering the business market.

      I live in a cold weather area and I have never owned a cellphone that I could use properly with gloves on.

    14. Re:Not because there's only 1 by FrostDust · · Score: 1

      While it'd be impractical (or, at least, undesired) to use a QWERTY for that hypothetical user, I'm wouldn't say every vision-impaired user loathes texting. Also, every phone I've seen with a keypad has a little nub on the 5 key, so that you can dial without looking at the keypad. Voice dialing isn't perfect, and touch screen only phones don't have a way to physically represent where a number key is.

    15. Re:Not because there's only 1 by oakgrove · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You say the G1 phone "sucks big time". And I suppose for you, that's the case. However, I feel exactly the opposite about mine.

      I don't mind the thickness, as I vastly prefer the tactile response of the slide-out keyboard vs. the on-screen only iPhone.

      As far as the camera, I haven't taken the first picture, I have a real camera for that.

      The headphone jack dongle doesn't particularly bother me though, I do admit, I'd like to be able to charge the phone and listen to tunes at the same time.

      As far as the battery, you're right on. The phone should last at least twice as long per charge.

      Though you didn't mention it, some people take issue with the little blackberry-esque trackball. Personally I love it. Again, it's the tactile response I like. It's great for browsing the web and I also think it works well for games.

      For the overall design, it isn't the greatest but I've seen much worse on some Windows Mobile devices. It's just the bar was set so high by the iPhone, it's hard to come up with something to top it. As a side note, the bend in the bottom where the trackball and buttons are, is perfect for protecting the trackball when your phone is in a case so I think it was better to put it there than to just leave the phone straight, aesthetics be damned. Some may disagree.

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    16. Re:Not because there's only 1 by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I have only briefly played with the demo Storm in the store, but given that you have to click for the button to count, it would be trivial for the keyboard to be updated so that it said the key that was selected (but not yet clicked). The blind could easily run their finger across the screen and stop when they got to the letter they wanted. Then click. So, touch phones certainly can be made to work for the blind. The gloved will be a harder minority to serve.

    17. Re:Not because there's only 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not true. You can develop on 3 platforms on a computer with an x86 CPU. That's hardly any platform.

      The imbeciles won't even accept patches to fix their broken software (endianess issues and so on)

    18. Re:Not because there's only 1 by LittleBigScript · · Score: 1

      Why would blind people buy a phone which is nothing but a large screen? There are other phones on the market which serve there needs, right?

    19. Re:Not because there's only 1 by rtechie · · Score: 1

      I'd love to see manufacturers targeting specifically blind and visually-impaired people as part of their strategy.

      Remember that these devices have the big screen largely to play video. Visually-impaired people are almost explicitly excluded by design. By the same token, MP3 players aren't very useful for deaf people (hard of hearing people complain they're not loud enough). Designing UI for smartphones is tough enough, especially when the same interface has to work in English and Chinese. Designing with handicaps in mind would really hurt time to market for negligible returns.

      Stay away from Apple. It's very unlikely Apple will abandon the virtual keyboard model and with one "flagship" device at a time I seriously doubt they're going to fork the product line anytime soon.

      With the relatively open platforms of Android and Windows Mobile third-parties can pick up the slack. I know there are "visually impaired" interfaces for Windows Mobile. Also, Windows Mobile has been around a lot longer has has more highly-specialized applications like this. YMMV.

    20. Re:Not because there's only 1 by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      but iPhone lacks basic features

      --
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    21. Re:Not because there's only 1 by dbcad7 · · Score: 1

      Strange that you say nobody wants it, and yet T-mobile keeps running out of stock of them. They are in limited stock today, but a week ago when I checked they were out.

      --
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    22. Re:Not because there's only 1 by maxume · · Score: 1

      Why the vitriol?

      I'm all for blind users having something that works well, but aside from doing business with a hypothetical a single company that is head and shoulders above the rest in addressing that market, I don't see what my needs and choices have to do with it.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    23. Re:Not because there's only 1 by toriver · · Score: 1

      ... such as?

      MMS is not a "basic feature" it is a hack for low-bandwith, no-email-client phones.

    24. Re:Not because there's only 1 by cdunworth · · Score: 1

      I don't think most folks can push tiny, tightly packed hardware keyboard buttons easily or accurately with gloves on.

    25. Re:Not because there's only 1 by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Video calling.

      --
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    26. Re:Not because there's only 1 by HeyLaughingBoy · · Score: 1

      Do they work outside a lot? I ask this because although I live in Minnesota, it never occurred to me. The only time I have gloves on is if I'm working outside (I live on a farm) whether it's winter, or I just need to protect my hands, and I don't remember ever getting a call when I was wearing gloves. Then again, if I'm home, my phone is normally indoors, so...

    27. Re:Not because there's only 1 by RotHorseKid · · Score: 1

      the drawback is that no one wants a G1, because it's a cheep plasticy lump of crap.

      Ever used one? It's the only phone out there with a real QUERTY layout, with the ability to type CODE (yes, goddamn CODE) without synchronously hitting 7 keys, it has a trackball, so you can actually HIT the links in webpages, IT'S BATTERY CAN BE USER-REMOVED (I have two now, becoz it really is too small), the GMail/GCalendar/GAddressbook integration is completely transparent, theres literally thousands of free apps for it. But sure, if it ain't shiny and expensive, it's crap. Stay with your user-unfriendly manager toy, whether it's called an iPhone or a Blackberry.

      --
      Nobody writes jokes in base 13. - DNA
    28. Re:Not because there's only 1 by Rutefoot · · Score: 1

      I'm not even just referring to emails and text messages. You can't even answer a phone call on an iphone with gloves on. The way their touch system works it only picks up your touch when your bare skin touches the surface. So normally accessible buttons like Send and End actually become impossible to press without first taking your gloves off. (Or buying an expensive pair of ridiculous looking iphone gloves. Example)

  3. Malware sites by Macrat · · Score: 3, Informative

    And how long before the malware stores pop up for the unsuspecting?

    That's at least one benefit to a manufacturer run app store.

    1. Re:Malware sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because everyone wants to buy iphone/googlephone apps from porn.com.

  4. RIM has its own App Store, too by javipas · · Score: 4, Informative

    The company announced some months ago its own version of the App Store for BlackBerry, the BlackBerry Application StoreFront

    1. Re:RIM has its own App Store, too by rgelb1 · · Score: 1

      I signed up for it and was approved, but it is not yet opened. I couldn't get a solid date either.

  5. Microsoft might have a chance, but... by mlts · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can see MS making an app store, but the rub is to get people to be using Windows Mobile based smartphones. So, the key is to get Nokia, LG, and other cellphone makers who are using JVMs on their low end phones to move to WM as the OS of choice. These are the cellphones that people obtain for free with a one or two year service contract, such as Motorola RAZRs. The trick is to get the phones out there in volume. I don't know if this can be done, though.

    Once WM is very common, as opposed to now where it pretty much is in a limited selection of phones, both Microsoft, and the WM app makers would benefit. Windows Mobile is a decent platform to write code on. It does require signed code for smartphones for the most part (less with PocketPC devices), but app makers can buy their own certificates and do the distribution themselves.

    1. Re:Microsoft might have a chance, but... by Shag · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Once WM is very common, as opposed to now where it pretty much is in a limited selection of phones, both Microsoft, and the WM app makers would benefit

      Same question I posed to the guy who said things would change once Android gained market share: what circumstances are going to change that will cause WM to gain market share?

      Also, OS X is in a very limited selection of phones. Ditto Android. I can name those phones, as can probably all Slashdotters and I suspect a decent number of people on the street who don't even have smartphones could, too. What phones run WM? Uh... I think some Palms do. Other than that, I have no idea. And my life doesn't seem less rich and fulfilling for not knowing.

      --
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    2. Re:Microsoft might have a chance, but... by timmyf2371 · · Score: 2, Informative

      If Nokia's low-end handsets were powerful enough, they would be running S60 with full multi-tasking. Not S40 and certainly not Windows Mobile.

      --

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    3. Re:Microsoft might have a chance, but... by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Middle-range ones are getting there, E50 for example, which can be had for 100 now, new, without contract. Or practically free with one.

      As for the TRUE low-end...remember that's not a typical phone that people in the western world get with their contracts; they're getting middle-range. Low-end means Nokia 1100, 1200, 1208, etc. And I kinda like them the way they are... (exceptionally good not only if all you need is phonecalls & sms, also for second/emergency phone/backpacking)

      --
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    4. Re:Microsoft might have a chance, but... by __aapspi39 · · Score: 1

      Palm make great wm phones - treos are tough as hell

      the best thing about all wm phones (especially wm6) is that the battery life is superb, even if you're listening to music a lot. this is my main priority really.

      i had an iphone(3g) for about a week before it went back to the shop - lovely animations but it seemed to drop calls and ran out of juice too soon. not really practicable as such.

      once a better range of android phones emerges i might have to try one.

    5. Re:Microsoft might have a chance, but... by timmyf2371 · · Score: 1

      By low-end I suppose I was really referring to those handsets which currently run S40. But you are correct - there are even more low-end/"basic" handsets which are exceptionally good for battery life & basic voice/text usage.

      --

      Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
    6. Re:Microsoft might have a chance, but... by CountBrass · · Score: 1

      I think you're wrong.

      The kind of people not prepared to pay for a premium 'phone are unlikely to be prepared to pay for apps.

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
    7. Re:Microsoft might have a chance, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A ton of phones run WM (a bunch from HTC, some from LG, Sony Ericsson etc.). My HTC TyTN II runs WM, and can also run Android :D

    8. Re:Microsoft might have a chance, but... by Tacvek · · Score: 1

      AIUI the android support for any HTC devices is currently limited. On the Titan (a.k.a. 6800 or Mogul) (not to be confused with the TyTN), the system runs, but is basically not usable yet due to lack of drivers for a fair amount of the hardware, but phone calls do work.

      Also HTC is nearly the exclusive manufacturer of Windows Mobile PPC phones, (as opposed to the touchscreen less Windows Mobile "Smartphones"). I'm aware of no more than five Windows Mobile PPC phones made by other companies.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
    9. Re:Microsoft might have a chance, but... by GaryPatterson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Once WM is very common...

      After about ten years with Microsoft pushing CE/WM and using whatever resources it could to gain adoption and marketshare, if it's not very common by now there's no chance it ever will be. I could be wrong, but I don't think so in this case - there's no sign of anything amazing in the pipeline from Microsoft, and the upcoming cuts to their staffing are all but killing development in many areas.

      If Microsoft couldn't do it by now, what makes you think they'll ever do it?

  6. Call me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when I can just do an "apt-get install" to my smartphone.

    1. Re:Call me... by migla · · Score: 3, Interesting
      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    2. Re:Call me... by thetartanavenger · · Score: 1

      The freerunner has issues. A friend of mine has one and the most notable thing is I can barely hear him because of the interference it causes/picks up permanantly.

      --
      Who need's speling and grammar?
    3. Re:Call me... by ptx0 · · Score: 1

      The iPhone jailbreak process installs Cydia, which is a GUI frontend for aptitude, which was ported to the platform by Jay (Gordon) Freeman. Once Cydia's installed, you can install Terminal.app to have a command prompt and 'apt-get' to your heart's desire.

    4. Re:Call me... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      You can also install Debian on the unlocked G1, or on one of the locked models if you have the firmware with the root exploit.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  7. Welcome by UnixUnix · · Score: 1

    I have been happy with my BlackBerry for years, and no, I have not been tempted by iPhone. As Android phones come of age and become competitive, however, I'm sure I'll give them a look.

  8. Is it? by dancingmad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't really have a dog in this fight - my brother owns an iPod Touch and I have a Blackberry Curve - but it doesn't seem to me that there's much competition on any front for Apple's App Store. For most of the smart phones I wouldn't even consider buying software (I don't think my Curve delivers an experience that I want - I would rather use other portable devices to do what software could do).

    The one thing that may be able to mount a challenge is the DSi's app store - but here in Japan where the DSi is already out, I am not really getting the impression that it is a must have feature.

    Until someone is even mildly successful in the area, no one competition is really "mounting" for the app store.

    --
    "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
  9. Only one Android phone? So what by Servo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There is only one iPhone, but App developers haven't stopped producing. I like the G1 better than the iPhone since it includes a slide-out keyboard and still packs in all the other features of an iPhone. Once the G1 has been around for longer and Android gets more market share I expect the Android Market to go head to head with the App Store.

    --
    A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
    1. Re:Only one Android phone? So what by Shag · · Score: 1

      Once the G1 has been around for longer and Android gets more market share I expect the Android Market to go head to head with the App Store.

      The G1 being around longer seems likely to happen, but I don't know whether that necessarily translates to Android getting more market share. Not saying it won't - the increasing popularity of smartphones is a rising tide that lifts all boats - but I'm not sure what circumstances will change to make it dominant.

      --
      Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
    2. Re:Only one Android phone? So what by Servo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Dominant and competitive are two separate beasts. The G1, or Android in general, need not dominate the market to be successful.

      --
      A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
    3. Re:Only one Android phone? So what by ducomputergeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is only one iPhone, but with some 12M users plus iPod Touch owners as well is a much larger customer base. We've been looking at support for mobile smart phones recently and hands down the iPhone became the priority 1 application to develop for followed by a generic mobile version of our site for everyone else.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    4. Re:Only one Android phone? So what by mrjohnson · · Score: 1

      iPhone sites work great on the Android. :-)

    5. Re:Only one Android phone? So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a very Google answer. Sure, you don't need to be dominant, but market share is important if you want to make any profit off the R&D you put into the phone. I don't believe that all the R&D will be paid off if you end up with 3% of the smartphone market share or whatever. How else does the phone benefit Google, by encouraging mobile browsing and openness? There are plenty of other open platforms now (Nokia, Palm, etc) and plenty that browse the web (most notably iPhone).

  10. Just give it up... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't see why companies even bother. In the US, Apple completely dominates the market, forcing Blackberry and Windows Mobile to be bit players at best. Outside the US, it it just a matter of time before Symbian and other platforms join PalmOS as interesting historical tidbits.

    Its just like the MP3 player market. There is the iPod with almost all the market. Then there are players fighting for the scraps Apple left behind.

    1. Re:Just give it up... by ptx0 · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Usually it's not so much the 'scraps' left behind by Apple as the groups that either dislike Apple, or have such a hardon for open-source software and standards that they won't succumb to it.

      For instance, whenever asking someone why they have X brand audio device instead of Apple, the answer is "Apple is too expensive", "it doesn't play OGG", "Apple sucks".. Sure, Apple likes to maintain tight control on everything they sell. Sure, Apple likes profits, but who doesn't these days?

      Once Apple realises that they can make even more money and have greater market share by reducing prices (maybe drop the price of every computer by $1000, and every audio device/phone by $200), then their marketing will be that much more effective. The problem with Apple vs. Microsoft is justifying spending $2000 on an OS. That's all you're doing. Any Apple machine can be found in Microsoft land with similar specs for 1/4th the cost.

    2. Re:Just give it up... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      That's all you're doing. Any Apple machine can be found in Microsoft land with similar specs for 1/4th the cost.

      Show me another machine with the specs of the MBP that is as thin and cool.

      Apple has many flaws, but they do make some nice hardware.

      With that said, the low-end Apple machines are overpriced, but the high-end machines are priced about right for their functionality.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Just give it up... by alsutton · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Outside the US, it it just a matter of time before Symbian and other platforms join PalmOS as interesting historical tidbits."

      Ever seen some sales figures? Symbian currently is the OS on around 50% of all 'phones sold (and 40% of all smart phones) around the world. Thats more than the nearest 4 competitors combined (and that includes apple).

      The US market is very limited and isolated in some senses because US patent laws restrict what can be sold in the US. In the free world we have the ability to buy 'phones which offer equivalent functionality and not pick 'phones based on who has the most patents.

    4. Re:Just give it up... by ptx0 · · Score: 1

      I was mostly referring to desktop or server hardware, but notebook-wise, it's still a huge rip-off. Here are two alternatives:

      It's not 1/4th the price, but it is also not $2799; How about the Voodoo Envy? Or the Dell Studio ($799 CAD)?

      If by "thin and cool", you mean "trendy fashion statement that runs OS X", then no, these machines are not for you.. I mean, they might run OS X. But if you meant a machine that has a favourable price per performance ratio, forget the MBP. It's just not worth it.
      If you don't mind using a 15.4" LCD instead of 17", the Lenovo T61p is a nice machine (Oh, and it includes firewire!)

    5. Re:Just give it up... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All Macbook Pro's have Firewire800.

    6. Re:Just give it up... by Shag · · Score: 1

      It's not 1/4th the price, but it is also not $2799; How about the Voodoo Envy? Or the Dell Studio ($799 CAD)?
      If by "thin and cool", you mean "trendy fashion statement that runs OS X", then no, these machines are not for you.

      Let's leave the ill-defined "cool" out of it, and just go with the first two-thirds of the AC's request:

      "Show me another machine with the specs of the MBP that is as thin..."

      The Voodoo Envy 133 is a 13.3" laptop, which makes it more of a would-be competitor for the MacBook Air, not the MacBook Pro.

      The Dell Studio 17" ranges from 1.18" (30mm) to 1.69" (43mm) thick, compared to the 17" MacBook Pro's 0.98" (25mm), and starts off more than a pound heavier.

      So you suggested a system that clearly doesn't have anything resembling the specs of the MBP, and one that clearly isn't as thin... did you misunderstand his request? ;)

      --
      Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
    7. Re:Just give it up... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      How about the Voodoo Envy?

      I don't know, they don't seem to have a picture of it. Does it exist?

      Or the Dell Studio ($799 CAD)?

      Genuine Windows Vista® operating system

      Seriously, though, that thing is as huge and thick as my HP/Compaq Mobile Workstation. The MBP is slim. You have failed to read or perhaps just to understand my comment. Please try harder.

      If by "thin and cool", you mean "trendy fashion statement that runs OS X", then no, these machines are not for you..

      I don't much care about OSX, although I won't run Vista. But by "thin and cool" I meant physically. The MBP generates less heat than my laptop (less graphics, to be fair, but even I don't need a quadro) and is WAY WAY THINNER and gets WAY BETTER BATTERY LIFE and oh by the way is MORE DURABLE. My machine has the same specs as a first-gen MBP, but it's no fucking Apple.

      Apple has made their share of shit hardware, and in the 68k days I messed around with them for a while, then threw up my hands in disgust and went with PCs. Now Apple makes PCs, and they make nice ones. They are not more expensive than other machines like them, because there are no other machines like them. And you may claim that wanting a thinner, lighter laptop is a cosmetic decision, but you're wrong. It also takes up less space in a bag meaning you have to carry less shit. Also, many of the PC laptops (including my Lemonesque nw9440 which HP is finally replacing with a 8730w) that are actually as capable really should never be run without their dock or a stand as they produce too much heat. Finally, FW800 FTW!

      Lenovo has been ratcheting back quality since the IBM handoff, and I don't think I'd actually buy their shit now (not that I would buy an HP, either.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Just give it up... by jaseuk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apple's biggest cock-up is restricting carrier choice. I own an iPod touch and the platform is excellent, I'd love to have an iPhone but the UK Operator 02 has notoriously bad reception in my area. For business use we have established contracts and call rates as well as supporting infrastructure to reduce the cost of our calls from office to mobile. We are not going to change all that simply to get a new phone. We pay around £300 for our SmartPhones, hardware cost is not really the issue.

      Jason

    9. Re:Just give it up... by ptx0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just to clarify, I'm not anti-Apple; I'm anti-Jobs. His wishes to keep Apple extremely exclusive are what is killing the company. I have an iPhone. I don't see how anyone could use the device if it weren't jailbroken due to the number of things you can't do with it (On the iPhoneOS vs. Android issue: who gives a damn?) due to Apple's restrictiveness. You can't even sync an iPod Touch or iPhone using Linux anymore unless you jailbreak, SSH in, and change a config file to revert to an old DB version that doesn't have their hash check.

      Back to the topic though, the iPhone would be awesome, and certainly less made fun of, if Apple would get off of their high horse about their products.. But the customer attitudes probably fuel this.

    10. Re:Just give it up... by ray_mccrae · · Score: 1

                   Voodoo Envy                Dell Studio 17                17" MacBook Pro
      CPU            1.6GHz                    2.16GHz                        2.66GHz
      FSB            800Mhz                    667Mhz                        1066MHz
      Cache          4MB                        1MB                            6MB
      Memory          2GB DD2                    2GB DD2                        4GB DD3
      Hard Drive      80 GB                    250 GB                        320 GB
      Graphics    Intergrated Intel X3100    Intergrated Intel 4500MHD    NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT

      Price         $1,899.99                $799                        $2,799.00

      In what possible sense could these be called equivalents. This whole clam of PC's being 1/4 of the price of a Mac is all smoke and mirrors and that's even before you consider other innovations that apple has built in like the uni-body and the 8 hour battery life.

    11. Re:Just give it up... by ptx0 · · Score: 1

      And the DRM, and the kill switches, and the FUD..

      I really do not see how that MBP is worth $2800.

    12. Re:Just give it up... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What DRM and kill switches on the MBP?
      It's not an iPhone.

    13. Re:Just give it up... by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Plus, taking further the example of mp3 players that original poster used - in many places iPods are almost nonexistent.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    14. Re:Just give it up... by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Show me another machine with the specs of the MBP that is as thin and cool.

      Usually when people say this they have a very specific feature - or combination of features - that are unique to Apple machines in mind. Which ones are yours ?

      However, one excellent alternative to the MBP is Dell's E6400. You can even attach it to a docking station, which for my money is an infinitely more important feature than a tenth of inch more thickness (particularly for the price).

      I will admit they're not as pretty, however.

    15. Re:Just give it up... by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the previous poster was trolling. If not, then they are just engaging in wishful thinking if they believe Apple can drop prices hundreds or thousands of dollars and make it up in volume.

      Show me another machine with the specs of the MBP that is as thin and cool.

      This is exactly what starts yet another in the unstoppable chain of price and feature comparisons between Apple and other vendors and it is pointless in the extreme. No one here is going to do a comprehensive look or be able to find machines that are truly comparable not only in bullet point features but in hardware reliability, included support, and integration all of which are important to the value of the end product.

      There have been studies performed on this topic already. I wish I had a good one handy. The best was the Consumer Reports one, but you need a subscription. In any case, the verdict is in. Macs cost more than the average PC by about 15%, which is to say about the same amount as other "premium" vendors like Sony, but Apple manages to win on reliability and support every year by a significant margin. (It's up to the individual to decide if that is worth it to them and hey, props to Dell for the massive improvements to their laptop reliability in the last year.) Apple undercuts other vendors a little bit on the low end and overcharges a bit more on the high end and on upgrade parts.

      Now people need to get over it. Whether you are a fanboy or a hater, just give it up. Digging up prices and stats online, once is useless. You can't get a large enough sample size to be useful, you can't properly compare features that don't show up in the marketing literature, and your results will vary widely based upon when in the release cycles you make the comparison.

      Please never, ever, ever, ever again ask someone to show you another machine that compares to MacFoo from Apple. It just leads to another long, pointless thread.

    16. Re:Just give it up... by DanJ_UK · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Killing the company??

      Apple made a net profit of $1.14bn (£683m) in the 3rd quarter last year, compared with $904m for the same period the year before, and their market share has just topped 10% for their whole product base.

      How exactly are they, killing the company??

      --
      - Dan
    17. Re:Just give it up... by shmlco · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Apple is running back-to-back-to-back record quarters, in spite of the economy. Yeah, Apple is definitely on its last legs...

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    18. Re:Just give it up... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Exclusive to what? I hate to break it to you but all cell phones are exclusive in some regard. First of, the network matters. Your GSM phone won't work on CDMA. Some carriers have phones that you can't get on other carriers. You might argue that Motorola makes the same phone work on different networks but you would be wrong. For example, the CDMA RAZR on Verizon is completely a different model than the GSM RAZR that works on AT it just happens to look the same. Also your AT&T phone may not work on T-Mobile if it cannot be unlocked. Now Apple could design a CDMA iPhone but that would go against their strategy of keeping a simple product line.

      I don't see how anyone could use the device if it weren't jailbroken due to the number of things you can't do with it (On the iPhoneOS vs. Android issue: who gives a damn?) due to Apple's restrictiveness. You can't even sync an iPod Touch or iPhone using Linux anymore unless you jailbreak, SSH in, and change a config file to revert to an old DB version that doesn't have their hash check.

      You are making the iPhone do things for which it was not intended. It is very clear on the packaging that the iPhone works in Windows or OS X. Linux is not supported. You can't complain that it requires you to do things above and beyond standard procedure when Apple has said what you are doing is not supported.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    19. Re:Just give it up... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Depends on what you want. It's very hard to compare laptops as every manufacturer has a slightly different configuration than every other. For the most part, MacBook Pros are pricier. But they are generally more reliable and come with more software and features. It's like comparing cars. If the Chevy Malibu sedan is a good fit for you then buy it. But if you want more and are willing to pay, you can get an Acura TSX. What people don't understand is they will take one or two aspects of each car and compare them. "Bah, the TSX is a ripoff. It has the same size engine but costs more!"

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    20. Re:Just give it up... by rtechie · · Score: 1

      Macs cost more than the average PC by about 15%, which is to say about the same amount as other "premium" vendors like Sony, but Apple manages to win on reliability and support every year by a significant margin.

      The first part of this statement is a well-established fact (15% more), the second is highly-controversial(better reliability and support). On reliability, I'll just say "no". I've seen nothing to convince me Apple has significantly lower hardware failure rates than other boutique vendors. "Support" is highly subjective and it depends on what kind of support you need. My colleague had Alienware write a custom driver (at no additional cost) to solve a problem with his laptop. Does Apple do that? I suspect your studies specifically excluded other boutique vendors and compared Apple to Dell, Acer, or Sony. Their real competitors are Pugent, Falcon Northwest, Alienware, VoodooPC, etc. And Dell, etc. offer premium support for additional fees. Does Apple do onsite repair? Dell does. If you buy cheap hardware from Dell (or anyone) don't expect it to be as reliable as more expensive hardware from Apple (or anyone).

      The real issue is support for Windows. There isn't much of an "escalation path" to get you from an OEM to Microsoft with an issue, you have to handle this ad hoc. And the OEM will tend to blame MS and MS will blame the OEM. Apple's main support advantage is that they don't get to make this argument as they're a single vendor. That, plus a relatively small application and peripheral pool (and the most popular apps are made by Apple) means that Apple has a lot "less" to support. So if someone calls Dell and says "X application is crashing on my laptop" Dell will probably tell them to contact the application vendor, if someone calls Apple and says "X application is crashing on my laptop" Apple will probably respond with "We know about that, the fix is X" because it's probably THEIR application.

      This is the real advantage of Apple: Single-vendor support if you stay in the sandbox.

      Now people need to get over it. Whether you are a fanboy or a hater, just give it up.

      I'd agree with this wholeheartedly. The real issue here is the software, not the hardware.

    21. Re:Just give it up... by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      The first part of this statement is a well-established fact (15% more), the second is highly-controversial(better reliability and support). On reliability, I'll just say "no". I've seen nothing to convince me Apple has significantly lower hardware failure rates than other boutique vendors.

      Okay. So every study I've seen including those from independent reviewing companies says otherwise. Upon what are you basing your assessments of reliability?

      "Support" is highly subjective and it depends on what kind of support you need.

      True, which is why it is important to rely upon objective studies of it rather than trying to find justification for prejudiced beliefs. You rely upon easily verified facts and numbers from support data.

      My colleague...

      I'm not interested in anecdotes. Everyone has them. Rational people base their evaluations on data.

      I suspect your studies specifically excluded other boutique vendors and compared Apple to Dell, Acer, or Sony.

      First, Alienware is a division of Dell these days. Second, why would you make such an assumption? Consumer Reports usually covers about 10 brands in their big studies (with Alienware being included in Dell's numbers for a few years now).

      The real issue is support for Windows. There isn't much of an "escalation path" to get you from an OEM to Microsoft with an issue, you have to handle this ad hoc. And the OEM will tend to blame MS and MS will blame the OEM.

      That doesn't have anything to do with hardware failure numbers or the dozens of other criteria in the average study. In the Consumer REports study every year, for example, software including the OS counts as one of the ten criteria, not nearly enough to affect their numbers one way or another.

      This is the real advantage of Apple: Single-vendor support if you stay in the sandbox.

      I agree that can be an advantage, but you certainly haven't shown that is Apple's only advantage.

      The real issue here is the software, not the hardware.

      Apple has handily won on hardware reliability in every study I've read for years, from a variety of sources. Can you find any where they don't win? I still don't see why you would think Apple's hardware reliability is not better based upon any of the data I've seen.

    22. Re:Just give it up... by rtechie · · Score: 1

      So every study I've seen including those from independent reviewing companies says otherwise.

      I've been doing this kind of IT and support for a long time and I'm not quite sure how you would engineer such a test. It strikes me that very small changes in methodology would have a dramatic effect on the results.

      The problem with most of these tests is that the engineers hide their methodology because they aren't following one. Usually they just ask the vendor and write down whatever they say.

      I've never read what I would consider to be a well-designed study to analyze support from major Windows vendors vs. Apple. The only one I've seen was some time ago from PC World and compared Dell, HP, Acer, and a few others based on some well-defined critera. While I think HP "won" the study, if you looked at the raw data it was basically a wash with Acer being slightly inferior.

      Upon what are you basing your assessments of reliability?

      Personal experience. I've worked in IT for about 15 years now. I've used Apple computers from the very beginning. I've personally used the first Apple computer, met and spent time with principles (the Steves, engineers at Apple, etc.) I've worked in the Apple test labs.

      I've also worked in IBM's test labs (for the Thinkpad line) and I've been out to Sony where they do QA. I've worked for and with Microsoft. I've worked for NEC. I've been the head of IT for Samsung Semiconductor.

      Consumer Reports usually covers about 10 brands in their big studies (with Alienware being included in Dell's numbers for a few years now).

      Consumer Report's "studies" have bad methodology. Last time I talked to their evaluators they were morons and I had to baby them through several stages of testing. And while I can't prove it absolutely, I'm pretty sure Consumer Reports bases these results largely on how much money they can get out of the vendor. You do know they have to pay to participate in these tests don't you?

      And according to the most recent survey:

      "Laptop percentages ranged from 20% (Lenovo and Compaq) to 23% (Apple). Dell, HP, and Gateway came in at 22%, while Sony and Toshiba come in at 21%. On the desktop front, percentages ranged from 12% (Apple) to 20% (Gateway). Thus, Apple came in on the high end for laptops but at the low end for desktops."

      In fact, Apple WAS the high end. In the last Consumer Reports survey Apple had the very worst record for laptop repair of the vendors they tested. This was despite the fact Apple doesn't have a super-cheap $500 budget laptop like most of the other vendors.

      So if you consider Consumer Reports authoritative (I don't), Apple laptop hardware sucks.

  11. Nokia will officially launch an app store.. by c00p3r · · Score: 1

    and will fail, because, unlike iPhone, there are no support of that app store in current firmwares.

    1. Re:Nokia will officially launch an app store.. by mvdwege · · Score: 3, Informative

      Apparently you have never used an S60 phone. It already has the basic mechanisms in place in the download section in the main menu. All Nokia has to do is market the server side to developers.

      Mart

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
  12. Mobile World? by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

    Did Ballmer throw any wheelchairs?

  13. Technically it's not compeittion. by Shadowmist · · Score: 1

    The Android store and the App Store at the moment serve two different markets. Android phone users and IPhone users. The store that the user would choose is determined by the phone in posession. Since neither store can offer anything to users of the other kind of phone the title is misleading, or at least premature.

  14. Only one Android phone available by spintriae · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A drawback to Android application developers, however, is the fact that the potential Android Market user base is fairly small right now, as there is presently only one Android phone available, the T-Mobile G1.

    You mean as opposed to the several dozen different phones Apple has on the market? Way to end a horribly fragmented run-on sentence with a cringe inducing logical fallacy, buddy.

    1. Re:Only one Android phone available by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      You mean as opposed to the several dozen different phones Apple has on the market?

      As opposed to the several dozen phones Android has the potential to have on the market in the not-too-distant-future. The G1 has a potential to sharply grow that the iPhone doesn't have since it's unlikely Apple will release more than one phone every year or two.

      Way to end a horribly fragmented run-on sentence with a cringe inducing logical fallacy, buddy.

      not deserving of a mod-point.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re:Only one Android phone available by spintriae · · Score: 1

      not deserving of a mod-point.

      Yeah, I suppose it is too much to ask for more than high school freshman level writing from the largest technology news site on the internet.

    3. Re:Only one Android phone available by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I suppose it is too much to ask for more than high school freshman level writing from the largest technology news site on the internet.

      The technology site didn't write that comment. Besides that, understanding is a more important skill than language parsing.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  15. The key is to charge by Bogtha · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The reason why the App Store has taken off so phenomenally is because they handle commercial applications. This means that any geek who can knock together a mobile application is tempted to do so by potential profits. Think about it, write an app, get it approved, and then instantly make it available to millions of iPhone users who are only a click away from paying you. That's a huge advantage for Apple - because those geeks will be writing their applications for the iPhone and not the other platforms. This is why there are so many applications for the iPhone already. Apple were really smart here. If you look at the numbers, there are more 99c applications than free applications, and taken as a whole, free applications are a minority.

    Android Market is soon going to be rolling out support for paid applications in much the same way as the App Store. Once this happens, you'll see a similar surge in the number of applications available for Android. It won't be as pronounced as the App Store's curve, because Apple have a head-start now, but it will certainly put Android in the game. Although the iPhone has the client numbers, Android has the developer numbers simply because you don't need a Mac to develop Android applications.

    --
    Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    1. Re:The key is to charge by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      Android Market is soon going to be rolling out support for paid applications in much the same way as the App Store.

      Correction: Android Market gained support for paid applications yesterday, although at the moment, it is restricted to developers from the USA and UK, and consumers from the USA, with more countries to follow.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    2. Re:The key is to charge by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      I think you'll see a huge surge. Everybody wants to be the *first* or *original* 'easy to program, easy to profit' application developer.

      If your idea isn't terribly original or difficult to execute you'll be cloned immediately so being first to market is huge.

  16. Potential. by CyberData4 · · Score: 1

    While the app store is a good thing, it's slightly overrated. Unless you consider a "farting" app the pinnacle of mobile development.

  17. I've just ditched my 3rd Windows Mobile by footnmouth · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Over the last 10 years I've had 3 different versions of Windows Mobile and every time initial "shinyness" has worn off very quickly to be replaced by annoyance at stupid, stupid user experience mistakes.

    The worst of these is Windows constant delivery of messages to the user. On a desktop the "you have unused desktop icons" bubble is annoying - on a Windows mobile device, a bubble that takes the user focus away from, say
    • typing an SMS
    • typing a number
    • typing a note
    • accepting a call

    is a serious barrier to usage.

    The other thing that finally caused me to switch to a Crackberry (which is fantastic) was that it would crash on receiving a call occasionally - brilliant. It was the HTC Tytan if anybody cares.

    --
    -- For evil to triumph it is enough that good men do nothing.
  18. Malware? by Jeppe+Salvesen · · Score: 1

    I am hesitant to download free stuff to me mobile that hasn't been checked for malware. It would be wise to require some modicum of accountability from the developers whose app you sell - if you were to spread malware you'd face on huge PR storm..

    --

    Stop the brainwash

    1. Re:Malware? by EvilNTUser · · Score: 2, Informative

      I am hesitant to download free stuff to me mobile that hasn't been checked for malware.

      How about free as in freedom?

      --
      My Sig: SEGV
    2. Re:Malware? by wampus · · Score: 1

      Do you audit all of the open source software you use? Sure, you COULD, but you don't. You probably have better things to do with your time, though I do wonder about some zealots some times.

  19. Only One? by Zero_DgZ · · Score: 1

    Uh, I hate to break it to the detractors of the Android Market, but the Apple app store applies to only one phone as well. And while the iPhone IS the New Hotness status symbol and so forth, there are still a hundred and one Razr/Blackberry/HTC/Envy/Blackjack owners for a single iPhone owner. Despite its popularity, the iPhone is far from ubiquitous.

    1. Re:Only One? by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      there are still a hundred and one Razr/Blackberry/HTC/Envy/Blackjack owners for a single iPhone owner.

      Actually, the iPhone has 1.1% of the entire mobile phone market, not just smartphones. So there's about 90 phone owners for a single iPhone owner.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    2. Re:Only One? by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      Uh, I hate to break it to the detractors of the Android Market, but the Apple app store applies to only one phone as well.

      There's one big distinction between the App Store & the Android Market. App store also sells apps for the iPod Touch, which helps to extend the number of potential buyers by at least several million.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    3. Re:Only One? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      since when is 1% = 10% im sorry but before you start spouting numbers and fanboyism. Buy a calculator and learn how to stop being so stupid go to apple.com they seem to be calling you back. 1.1% is that there are 98.9 phones for every iphone

  20. App Store anti-Competitive by DallasMay · · Score: 0, Troll

    I can't believe no one else is talking about this. The iPhone App Store is anti-competitive. You can only sell iPhone Apps through it alone. That's bad for developers and bad for consumers. Apple has already abused it's monopoly position by not allowing certain apps that compete with their offerings. This is dramatically different than their Music store/ipod model because you can buy music from anywhere so long as it is DRM-Free. This is not the case with the App Store. Buy from Apple or not at all.

    --
    I've given up on Slashdot's comment scores.
    1. Re:App Store anti-Competitive by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      I can't believe no one else is talking about this. The iPhone App Store is anti-competitive... Apple has already abused it's monopoly position by not allowing certain apps that compete with their offerings.

      You see, this is the Achilles' heel of your argument. Both legally and economically monopolies are defined by markets. You reference Apple's monopoly, but in terms of economics and law, they don't actually have a monopoly (they are close with ipods though I don't think that applies to this discussion). This article is about Apple Store clones popping up to provide similar functionality for all the competing phones on the market. The fact that such competition exists negates the premise of Apple having a monopoly. If they were to gain monopoly influence on the cellphone or even smartphone market, then yes, absolutely it would be an issue.

      Remember, bundling is not illegal. You can sell a package of shampoo and body wash without any problems, right up until you gain monopoly influence on one of those two markets. Apple doesn't have a monopoly on smartphones. Apple doesn't have a monopoly on smartphone apps. Thus, tying their smartphone to their app store is clearly not falling afoul of normal antitrust laws.

      This is dramatically different than their Music store/ipod model because you can buy music from anywhere so long as it is DRM-Free.

      Actually, the Apple specific DRM and tying to the iTunes store is plenty to convict Apple of antitrust abuse... provided they have monopoly influence to abuse. Right now the EU seems to have leaned towards Apple not having such influence in their investigations largely because of the media playing cell phone trend.

      This is not the case with the App Store. Buy from Apple or not at all.

      Yeah it is serious lock in and something a purchaser should consider. It's probably the second thing (after price) dissuading me from choosing Apple as the provider of my next smartphone. That said, it is no more anti-competitive than all the other items sold exclusively through cell phones like crazily expensive wallpaper and ringtones. In order for antitrust laws to apply their needs to be a trust. There are other consumer protection laws in various jurisdictions, but nothing universal that make for a large issue.

    2. Re:App Store anti-Competitive by Dupple · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apple doesn't have a monopoly, you are quite free to buy a phone from someone else.

      --
      Watch those corners
  21. Not even close by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right now the only real 'competition' to Apple's App Store is the Android Market.

    I'm sorry, you can buy iPhone apps on the Android Market? Don't be stupid. That means there is ZERO COMPETITION.

  22. Dumb summary by fermion · · Score: 1
    There is no competition for the Apple app store because without breaking the iPhone there is no way to get an unsanctioned app on the iPhone. Other app stores might provide competition for the iPhone, and now that Apple has shown, once again, that one can sell products at a premium if one offers customer service, it seems that many more are trying to cash in on the deal.

    The advantage of the Apple Store, though, is exactly what most people complain about. Apple vets the software, which means that iPhone users are limited on choice, but have a sense of security. It is unlikely that Apple would let, for instance, malware appear on the store.

    The problem is if the other stores allow anything on the store, then the security is gone. Since there is not that level of customer service, the stores are not the same. In fact, I don't think we need any new stores or sites at all, especially for android. What I would trust most are OSS applications on something like sourceforge. I don't download unknown applications for my computer, why would I do so for my phone.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  23. What Policies? by Trojan35 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm interested what the policies are on all the different app stores. I know everyone here hates Apple's restrictive policies, but I do appreciate how I can download any app from their app store and not worry about it breaking my iphone, spreading viruses, changing system defaults, or worse (like stealing passwords).

    What approval processes and policies do these other stores have?

  24. Application deployment by LoudMusic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The App Store is the most important thing the iPhone has going for it. I have a Blackberry through work and enjoy using it (because it's free!), but getting apps is such a pain in the ass that the only thing I've installed is the Google package.

    It would be nice if desktop OSes had an easy way to find and install new programs as well. Oh wait ... BSD and Linux do have such a place! How has Apple not jumped on that?

    --
    No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
    1. Re:Application deployment by yelvington · · Score: 1

      The web browser's default home page takes you to quite a few free downloads, but it's not a complete listing of the available Blackberry software. Nevertheless, with a bit of searching Twitterberry, Slacker Mobile, Viigo, AP News, etc., were not hard to find.

      The problem with "app stores" is that they're all hardwired to make money and/or extend a totalitarian control model (as in Apple), not make it easy for the user to find software (as in Linux/BSD distros).

      I installed Mobipocket Reader, and it has a built-in bookstore. Nice. Click, buy a book.

      However, it only finds paid-for books; if you want any of the Gutenberg project .mobi books -- available from the Mobipocket website! -- you have to download them to your computer and copy them to the Blackberry manually.

    2. Re:Application deployment by Super_Z · · Score: 1

      It would be nice if desktop OSes had an easy way to find and install new programs as well. Oh wait ... BSD and Linux do have such a place! How has Apple not jumped on that?

      You do have MacOSX repositories as well - macports and fink. They are not integrated into the OS in any way though.

  25. Android Marketplace is cool and all, but... by rgelb1 · · Score: 1

    The Android Marketplace experience from the phone is really slick. However, there is no way to access it from the Internet. I released a really small free app called "That's not Funny" (check it out).

    1. Re:Android Marketplace is cool and all, but... by kwark · · Score: 1

      No way to access it from the internet? Like:
      http://www.cyrket.com/package/com.vbrad.android.notfunny

      If you want your app to be available in any other way from the Android Market, Google isn't going to stop you (they just don't want you to mention other markets in their marketplace).

  26. Apple leads, the rest follow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    no surprises here, please move along

  27. Andriod / Google phone is a failure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Android / Google phone is a failure...as a hardware platform or a software platform which is reasonably open.

    The T Mobile G1 phone is a substandard piece of plastic lacking finish. Better handsets need to appear.

    For a phone / phone software to get popular, the most important factor is not jailbreaking, but unlocking the phone to use with different carriers (iPhone is a good example.) The G1 phone has crazy restrictions for it to work on a non TMobile network.

    I purchased a G1 handset and paid to get it unlocked. Even after unlocking, the phone will work only if it is authorized on Google Servers with a Google account. That happens only through a T Mobile G1 data plan. (Some forums say you can put an AT&T SIM card with a data plan and it will authorize G1, but that did not work for me.)

    I sold the handset. Many like myself are not going to look at a G1 phone or its variants from TMobile again.

  28. sounds cool by ascari · · Score: 1

    "Android Market" sure has a nice ring to it. Like something out of Philip K Dick. Or early Star Wars, come to think of it.

  29. That's Rich by His+Shadow · · Score: 1

    I love how optimistic these stories always are... Such a romantic bunch, thinking everything that comes down the pike is going to knock Apple off of it's current perch.

    --

    Fiat Homos et Pereat Theos

  30. Oh wow an offtopic MS rant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    who could have predicted that. You can put your troll rants in any story now it seems..

  31. Let's not forget... by eigenstates · · Score: 1

    Jailbreaking which even the Woz says is cool. That opens Cydia to you which kills the app store in just about every way- including the install procedure. Apt-get = yes.

    --
    quis custodiet ipsos custodes