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Russia Aims Towards Mars
Iddo Genuth writes "Russia's Federal Space Agency (Roscosmos) has announced its intentions to build a low-orbit space station which, according to the agency, will support future exploration of the moon and Mars. There's also a suggestion to extend the operational lifespan of the International Space Station by five more years, resetting its retirement date to 2020. The project proposal is already on its way for review by the Russian government. Some Russian sources also reportedly proposed the (rather ludicrous) idea of converting the ISS into some kind of an interplanetary transport vehicle, which would serve as the 'ultimate mother ship' in manned planetary missions to the moon or even Mars."
The Reds are going to the Red Planet!
Anybody want my mod points?
Moving the ISS is not such a crazy idea at all, and it's been proposed already by some smart people as a way to increase moon mission payoffs and reduce mission risks. A series of orbit boosts could eventually lead to a transfer orbit and lunar orbital insertion. Once in lunar orbit it would be at reduced risk of damage from orbital trash. Yes, sending up resupply and crew swapouts would be more difficult, but remember we would already be doing that for manned lunar operations so it's really not that much of a stretch.
Moving it to mars... Now that's a bit of a stretch but it might be possible with a propulsion efficiency breakthrough that could be powered by existing solar arrays or a bolt-on reactor. Still though, I think the idea of using it to support lunar operations might be an interesting idea especially as an alternative to letting it die after such a slow and expensive build-up with gross under-use as a science platform since it's been manned due to problems with the shuttle program.
The big question is: Once the shuttle is out of the picture, why keep the ISS where it is? Why not just put it wherever it is the most useful?
I suppose *some* people would be upset if a Russian booster rocket took the ISS out of orbit without telling anyone, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it ludicrous. If the U.S. doesn't pay Russia to boost the ISS during the shuttle's downtime, Russia may have no choice but to pull a repo job on it.
In space, no one can hear you... nevermind.
You can't send a takedown notice to an already printed newspaper.
Mars, ever eager to fight, aims right the fuck back.
If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
Russia is ALWAYS announcing things like this - Klipr, manned Mars missions, etc. I've lost track of how many times they've "announced" they're going to Mars, or some other huge project.
The reason why this keeps happening is because in part we in the west are misunderstanding the way the Russian space program works.
They don't announce plans in the way for example NASA would. In Russia, they continually plan these things, then float out the ideas to see if they can get support and funding - and in the last 20 years or so, international investment.
If they DON'T get funders to sign on, it goes nowhere, and in a year or so they trot out another proposal.
This is NOT an announcement of a plan, it's a marketing pitch. They're saying "we could do this, anyone out there wanna pay for it?"
This space available.
In soviet space, you can hear no one screaming...
(!)
but sometimes they hit Georgia.
It's just as well though. Think of how disappointing it would be if they did launch something all that way only that have it collide with the polar orbiter upon arrival...
It's quite ironic that it looks like the only thing that will save US manned spaceflight & planetary exploration from becoming a sacrificial lamb on the altar of pork & payoffs by short-sighted, corrupt US politicians may well be a re-emerging, hostile, and aggressive Russia.
It looks like it may be more effective for US citizens who are in favor of NOT letting our manned spaceflight capabilities die from neglect to, rather than contributing money to any US politicians or organizations, donate money to the Russian spaceflight program instead.
It seems that US politicians have so abandoned any pretense of doing the will of the people, of upholding & defending the US Constitution, and acting in the countries' best interests, that we may in future find it much more effective to donate money to our various enemies and rivals like Russia, Al Queda, and Ahmadinejad to preserve our freedom and prevent our politicians from doing things like de-funding NASA and the US military to fund their pork-filled, quid-pro-quo/payoff-laden, "bridge to nowhere" projects and social-engineering experiments designed to increase their voter-base.
Cheers!
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
Basically, RSA is already not well funded. It is not likely that they will get funding for more when Russia is losing money and their economy is crashing HARD.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Thats pretty much the same for space programs in the west.
"Podmates! A new threat from the wretched third planet has presented itself!" roared K'breel, Glorious Elder Speaker of the High Council, the his gelatinous tendrils quivering with excitement. "The detestable ape-people of the Northwestern Continent, having failed pitifully in their invasion of our homeworld with their pathetic wheeled war vehicles, have now attempted to enslave the population of an old adversary to construct their monstrous interplanetary weapons of destruction. Fortunately for our cause, due to the design faults of their primitive neurological systems, and in no small part the assistance of our hidden operatives, their economies have collapsed as a result of their insatiable lust for accumulating worthless structures of planetary rock and decayed photosynthetic matter! They have turned against one another in their uncomprehending rage, bringing the hour of our ultimate victory within sight!"
When one journalist timidly asked of K'breel to confirm the rumors that a new Great Speaker had arisen among the citizens of the Northwestern Continent, who had been prophisized to lead the ape-people to final victory in the interminable conflict, K'breel ordered his gelsacs to be pierced on the spot.
the ISS needs the earths magnetic field to protect it from solar radiation... the 2 most reliable defenses against it are 1.. about 6 feet of lead to shield from it or 2. create a magnetic field large enough to protect the ISS once it out of earths magnetic field, i am not sure if we have this technology yet and if we did... it would be HUGE so not very likely to fit on the ISS anyway. Another problem assuming the first is fixed.. is fuel... rockets would be a waste of money... would be better off with a newer technology(like deep space one had, ion propulsion) might take a bit to get up to speed but if you are only going to stick it in an orbit around the moon it wouldnt take much with a slingshot from earth. its only about 200k miles anyway.(also dont forget how much fuel you would need for each type of propulsion system... rocket fuel isn't very efficient for long distances and it would take up a LARGE LARGE LARGE amount of space and add weight that you just cant have for this type of thing) It would be more effective to build a spacecraft thats actually designed for interplanetary travel and use the ISS as a "hub" for the spacecraft or something... there are plenty of uses for the ISS beyond 2020, but having it be a manned interplanetary spacecraft just doesn't seem like a viable one.
Nerd.
I realize that this particular robot cannot fly without air. What I meant is that small robotized machines can research hostile places better, cheaper and faster. They can be sent to the planet by rocket 100 times smaller that needed for a human to fly. And they do not need air to breath.
Low orbiting space station would be also useful for watching over the american military forces. I think it's the main reason. Cold war never ends! And as for me cold war is good for technical progress
In 50 years, manned space flight will be easy even if we don't invest a dime in it until then, because a lot of necessary technologies will have been developed for other uses.
What you're overlooking here is that it isn't *just* hardware & tech that's involved here. It's learning how humans themselves react to long periods in space and how best to make sure the people not only arrive at their destination, but arrive alive, healthy, and sane. There is no way to reliably model or simulate how humans may react to long interplanetary journeys or how to protect them far outside the protections of Earths' Van Allen belts and gravity well.
We have learned little that is relevant to the future of manned space flight because developments in material science, propulsion, biotech, and AI are making the technologies that our manned space program has been built on so far obsolete.
No, we have been slow in acquiring the knowledge because we haven't had the manned spaceflight occurring in the first place (outside of LEO). You can have all the materials science, propulsion, and biotech theoretical knowledge you want, but it's the practical application that proves or disproves viability and safety and improves and perfects the theoretical ideas.
(unmanned drones and satellites)..they are cheap, effective, and can do anything a human can do--and better.
They cannot think outside their programming. They cannot adapt to unforeseen problems and emergencies (see: Apollo 13). They are unable to interpret what they encounter, and change to meet new and unexpected circumstances.
The facts plainly contradict your position. You just don't see it because you are evidently ignorant of the history of science and the economics of innovation. You're apparently being driven by some kind of Star Trek fantasy.
So far, I don't see where you've backed up any of your claims. I'm quite familiar with the history and science of spaceflight, and how knowledge and skills in this area are gained. I worked in aerospace for many years. Your repeated attempts to label me as some kind of Sci-Fi crackpot only hurts your position, as it makes clear you have nothing to back up your assertions with.
It's quite apparent that you have no practical knowledge on this subject or you wouldn't be making such obvious errors. Unless, of course, you have a political/ideological agenda that has nothing to do with spaceflight. Which at this point, considering your blind belief that somehow we can learn to send men on interplanetary voyages with no practical experience in how to do this successfully, I feel is the likely reason for you to stubbornly fly in the face of all previous knowledge and experience in how a manned spaceflight program is accomplished and what it requires.
I see that there's no reasoning with you on a rational, logical basis as your beliefs are political/ideological in nature, and therefor are immune to logic and factual arguments.
I leave you to bask in the light of your own political/ideological blindness and ignorance.
Good day, sir.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.