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Drug Deletes Fearful Memories

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on from the also-the-memory-that-you-paid-your-bill-already dept.

Al writes "Technology Review has an article about a common drug that seems to 'delete' painful memories related to a fearful experience. Experiments carried out by neuro-scientists at Emory University show that propranolol, a drug commonly used to treat high blood pressure, can suppress the emotional part of a fearful memory. The results, published in Nature Neuroscience, suggest a new way to treat anxiety disorders. In recent years, scientists have discovered that the simple act of remembering a past experience requires that the memory be consolidated once again. And both animal research and some human studies have shown that during re consolidation, long-term memories — once thought to be fairly stable — can be more easily meddled with."

31 of 247 comments (clear)

  1. A boon to higher education by mbstone · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now they can make money re-educating the same students they educated before! Think of the student loan debt!

    1. Re:A boon to higher education by lucif3r · · Score: 5, Funny

      Nice, now I can touch the stove again!

    2. Re:A boon to higher education by flyingsquid · · Score: 4, Funny

      You guys should not be joking about this. Deleting painful memories is an incredibly dangerous thing, as I can tell you from experience, and in the long run it will only make things worse than they were before. The reason why it's so dangerous is because... ah hell, I can't remember. But anyway, I'm pretty sure it's a bad idea.

    3. Re:A boon to higher education by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'll stick to the old methods, I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy...

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
  2. PropranoLOL by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Any relation to propofol, a.k.a. milk of amnesia?

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    1. Re:PropranoLOL by reverseengineer · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nope, propofol (2,6-diisopropyl phenol) likely works by increasing the response to inhibitory neurotransmitters, and acts as an anesthetic. Propanolol is a non-selective beta-blocker, which blocks the beta-adrenergic receptors (receptors for epinephrine and norepinephrine). As the summary notes, the most common pharmaceutical use for this is to lower blood pressure, which it does by preventing the release of renin. Its effects on memory are completely coincidental to those on blood pressure.

      In the brain, a part of the brainstem known as the locus ceruleus is the site of norepinephrine synthesis, and it is activated by stress to send norepinephrine to the amygdalae, the brain's "emotional memory association" centers. It is in the amygdalae that memories are associated with emotions, with the ultimate result being that it is easier to form long term memories of experiences that associated with strong emotions. In blocking norepinephrine transmission to the amygdala, beta-blockers most likely are acting to uncouple the connection between a stressor and its associated memory, such that the brain no longer considers it important enough to keep in long term memory.

      --
      "FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
    2. Re:PropranoLOL by reverseengineer · · Score: 4, Informative

      Oh, most definitely- it's still an off-label use of the drug in the US, but people are certainly taking beta-blockers to treat performance anxiety, as well as to prevent nervous fine motor tics. At the most recent Summer Olympics, one of the medalists in pistol shooting had his medals taken away after testing positive for propranolol.

      --
      "FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
  3. Drugs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    propranolol

    So this will turn your fearful memories into hilarious ones?

  4. Ahh... by XPeter · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now I can finally forget the day that ruined my life. It took me away from schoolwork, friends, family...it was horrible.

    Now I can finally forget the day I joined Slashdot.

    --
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits" - Albert Einstein
  5. And this is a Good thing!? by sjvn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You know one does learn to avoid making many mistakes in life--I really cant fly, fire is pretty but it does hurt--by pain.

    Besides just the idea of tampering with memory being a *bad* thing, the notion of fooling with one of the fundamental ways we learn strikes me as a really bad idea.

    Soma anyone?

    Steven

    1. Re:And this is a Good thing!? by woolpert · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You speak as if our brain's software is without bugs. If you had seen the suffering and disablement that intense, often unreasonable, emotional pain can inflict on some people even years after the traumatic event, perhaps you would be less dismissive of an attempt to patch this particular bug.
      Expose X people to a horrific event and a high percentage of them will show the ability to get over it. There is that outlying group, however, who (despite honest effort and therapy) seem to have an overactive emotional memory system which prevents them from ever coming to terms with what happened.

    2. Re:And this is a Good thing!? by bipbop · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're right, to an extent. Living without pain is very hard--some individuals born without the ability have hellish lives as a result. But sometimes, pain teaches us lessons that aren't so good, like "I should never touch anyone for the rest of my life," because touching is so strongly associated with pain. How people with this sort of thing varies from one individual to the next, but for someone with a deeply ingrained irrational fear based on some painful experience, maybe removing the memory could be a good thing.

      Another way of looking at it is this: if you are raped, and the idea of sex is permanently distorted in your mind by the memory, then this memory is a punishment for something that isn't your fault, haunting you and messing up your life to this day. Wouldn't it be a good thing to allow the *option* of removing this weight from one's shoulders?

    3. Re:And this is a Good thing!? by flyingsquid · · Score: 5, Funny

      On the other hand, previous experiences suggest this might not be such a bad thing. It didn't actually do much damage last year when a secret biowarfare lab accidentally released the Mnemonivirus and we had a global Amnesia Plague. Remember that?

    4. Re:And this is a Good thing!? by jamesh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Besides just the idea of tampering with memory being a *bad* thing, the notion of fooling with one of the fundamental ways we learn strikes me as a really bad idea.

      Now suppose that you and your family were kidnapped from your home at gun point, and you had to watch while unspeakable things were done to them and to you.

      One thing you would 'learn' (and have a terrifying anxiety attack in response to) is that sitting around in your own home with your family is an unsafe thing to be doing, because something really bad happened one day when you were doing that. That response would be completely useless and would make your life an absolute misery.

      That's the sort of thing this drug could be useful in 'editing out'. 'editing out' the sort of 'that hurt me last time I did that so I won't do it again' memories is a stupid idea and I don't know why anyone would bring it up.

      The nature of most people on Slashdot appears to be to figure out a way that a certain product could be used badly, assume that that is the only way it could be used, and then post a whole lot of comments to that effect.

    5. Re:And this is a Good thing!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wrong. No one just "get[s] over it." Every individual, based on their prior experiences will take a given situation and either adapt to it to the best of their abilities, perhaps by adding it to their experience or by "moving on" and ignoring it even though the effect is still with them at a subconscious level. And the really poorly off people break; they have something happen to them so traumatic that it shatters their emotions. While they are the most obvious "victims" of an event, if they can't find help with dealing with the problem, either through talking it out with someone, taking a step back from life and doing some reflecting on their life, or finding some other way to overcome their emotional burden, they will forever go through life not only with the scars from the event, but the inability to cope with other problems, regardless of their magnitude.

      You can't tamper with the learning process of gained experience because nature doesn't breed it out of the gene pool anymore. Modern medicine has, in my opinion, overcome the acceptable boundaries of emotional science without considering the long-term health effects of just throwing pills at people.

      Learning to adapt and overcome is far too important to let us forget. No matter the cost.

    6. Re:And this is a Good thing!? by uniquegeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There would be a difference between using this on someone who encountered stressful things and had a hard time getting over it, versus someone who has PTSD or PTSD-e and is virtually incapacitated by the affliction.

      Having bad days and dealing with depression is one thing. Having recurring nightmares of terror and constantly reliving every bad encounter in your life is another.

    7. Re:And this is a Good thing!? by woolpert · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So in an attempt to create a "quick fix" you are advocating the permission for people to bury their heads in the sand and let life pass them by because they got hurt and don't want to feel bad?

      As I previously said, there is a group of people who, despite honest effort and therapy, do not recover from traumatic events. There is no support for a quick fix anywhere in my earlier comments. Stop attempting to straw-man this.

      I think you ought to either drop the programming analogy or realize that there are no "bugs" in our "software." Humans can't "upgrade their firmware" to overcome "short-sighted design" or development. They either adapt at a conscious level or a subconscious level; the former has a much more obvious affect on their abilities, while the latter is harder to actualize, but can be just as potent

      Bullshit. There are clearly innate and instinctual functions of our brain our higher processes wish they could override. We have an onion of a brain with layer upon layer of functionality, but also layer upon layer of cruft.
      Flinching when you know the person isn't going to hit you. Accelerated heartbeat when you know it is only a movie. Goosebumps when you know you have no hair to fluff. Even the annoying sensation of cold when you know you are able to maintain core temperature. All of these are examples of where, despite conscious will, our base programming still rules.

      It sounds to me that you are letting people suffer through ignorance and allow them to experience the same things later, which they will then also need to be treated for.

      You're assuming these people can learn. I'm arguing there is a class of case where normal brain function has been so disrupted by an overactive response to an emotional event that learning from the event is impossible. Despite your insistent wish to believe that isn't so.

      Do I think that emotionally damaged people deserve a second chance? Sure, but with the proper tools and in the proper environment, not through the use of a one-size-fits-all memory supplement (or otherwise)...

      Who says this is a one-size-fits-all solution? Not I. It appears to me that there is either a reading comprehension problem or a desire to straw-man again.

      ...that doesn't solve the victimization problem of the event from reoccurring.

      A non-functional personality can solve no problems. Either we do what we can to restore advanced functionality (and maybe this will prove an effective tool to do so) or we accept the person as a loss. Many really are just that far gone.

  6. Eternal Sunshine by sexybomber · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Admittedly I didn't RTFA, but is this specific to just painful memories? I mean, I'd love to delete some memories I have, but I wouldn't want to run the risk of overwriting, say, my acceptance to law school, or memories of particularly good sex, for example. (Yes, strangely enough for a Slashdotter, I have had some.)

    How can the drug possibly discriminate between good and bad memories, or for that matter, any memories at all?

    1. Re:Eternal Sunshine by guyminuslife · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The headline is somewhat misleading. The memory is not erased. Rather, the emotions associated it are dampened. As in, "I saw my mother hacked to pieces with a chainsaw. Meh."

      --
      I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    2. Re:Eternal Sunshine by RockWolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The dampening is a temporary one while you are on the drug. Come off of it, and things return as they were before. This is going to be worthless unless they intend to keep the PTSD folks on it the rest of their lives. I've been on it.

      On that note - as you point out, it only works when you're on it. Does that emotion-suppression while you're taking the drug allow a better success rate of more normal therapies, so it is possible to stop taking it and not undo the therapy? Or should I RTFA?

      /~Rockwolf

      --
      February 9th, 2009 8:55pm: Slashdot becomes self-aware.
  7. Dupe? by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've seen this story before. I think.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  8. side effects of propranolol by tyroneking · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "SIDE EFFECTS: Propranolol is generally well tolerated, and side effects are mild and transient. Rare side effects include abdominal cramps, diarrhea, constipation, fatigue, insomnia, nausea, depression, dreaming, memory loss, fever, impotence, lightheadedness, slow heart rate, low blood pressure, numbness, tingling, cold extremities, sore throat, and shortness of breath or wheezing. "

    Lot of patients who I've dealt with who took this drug suffered from impotence and had to be changed to alternative medication - wonder if in fact all that happened is that they forgot what do with it :)

    I vaguely remember being told by a gynae doc that Pethidine had some memory loss effects too

    The article linked above also goes on to say:
    "Kindt's team has already tested whether the propranolol effect lasts longer than three days--a key requirement for therapeutic use--but she declined to give the results because they have been submitted for publication."

    So continuous treatment might be required? Side effects of prop. can be worse than the memories maybe?

    Really, what's wrong with spending money on counselling instead?

    (IANAD - but IWAP)

  9. Buy your expensive drugs by psnyder · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'll keep my alcohol. Years of private studies show loss of fear and suppression of bad memories.

    1. Re:Buy your expensive drugs by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'll keep my alcohol. Years of private studies show loss of fear and suppression of bad memories.

      Yes, but it's like a DELETE statement without a WHERE clause.
         

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
  10. As Roosevelt said, by blakedev · · Score: 5, Funny

    "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself, and now we have a drug for it."

    --
    QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
  11. No one on the entire web has RTFA. by rayd75 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The drug in the study is a beta blocker. They are used heavily to treat high blood pressure, heart rhythm issues, and specific aspects of heart failure. The study indicates that they MAY be useful in helping to dampen the negative feelings associated with traumatic memories when combined with specifically designed therapy. There's no claim that they can actually cause a memory to be forgotten. It's not a potential lifestyle drug poised for widespread abuse. Most links I've seen to this article and others covering the study seem to suggest that simply popping one of these pills will make you forget an entire event at will. It's nowhere near that simple. If it were, I'd be a lot more laid-back than I actually am.

  12. Could be used to justify torture by straponego · · Score: 3, Interesting

    After all, if you can't remember being tortured, and there's no permanent physical damage, where's the harm?

    Also, with this or roofie-type drugs, I wouldn't be surprised if some people were willing to pay to be tortured, as long as they couldn't remember it.

    Lastly, quit referencing Eternal Sunshine. Yeah, it was okay. The original PKD story, We Can Remember it For You Wholesale, was pretty good too. Of course, they never gave credit, just like Idiocracy never credited Kornbluth's Marching Morons, despite being a verbatim copy. Pretty sure Harlan Ellison had a similar story, but I... can't remember right now.

    Oh look, the coffee just hit.

  13. Ugh, can the media stop with the scifi headlines? by margaret · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm sick of these stupid "propranolol deletes memory" headlines. There was even an episode of boston legal or law & order perpetuating this nonsense a year or so ago. The drug does not "delete" a specific memory. The only people who can that are on star trek. The drug simply reduces the emotional significance of the memory, uncoupling it from the autonomic/fear response associated with it. A HUGE difference.

  14. Thank the Lord... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'll finally be able to wipe the image of Goatse from my mind.

  15. Finally! by el3mentary · · Score: 3, Informative

    I can win at the game!

    --
    I reject your reality and substitute my own.
  16. Off-patent varieties by jonaskoelker · · Score: 5, Funny

    So this will turn your fearful memories into hilarious ones?

    Just wait when it goes off-patent. You'll see knock-offs like propanorofl, propanolmao, propanolulz and propanocheezburgar.