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Handset Vendors Plug Micro-USB Charge Ports

Posted by timothy on from the kicking-and-screaming-to-the-briar-patch dept.

ketan324 points to a Register story touting an agreement among several phone makers to settle on Micro USB for their phones' charging ports, writing "It's about time for these cellphone manufacturers to wise up and design a universal phone charger. Although many manufacturers have already 'standardized' to a mini-USB interface, there are many more out there who use proprietary adapters. I wonder how Apple will feel about this? Will they finally realize that their oh-so-special adapter is nothing more than a fudged USB interface?" No legislation required.

24 of 363 comments (clear)

  1. And why the hell do I need a driver for this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have working USB on my computer. Why the hell do I need to install a Motorola XP driver to charge my RAZR?

    1. Re:And why the hell do I need a driver for this? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 5, Informative

      Often the standard USB current isn't enough to charge a device, so you must install a driver which does nothing more than increase the USB power output.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    2. Re:And why the hell do I need a driver for this? by corsec67 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Voltages. The driver has to tell the computer what voltages it uses. It's from the USB spec,IIRC.

      No, USB Vcc is +5 volts.

      Per the USB spec, the device isn't supposed to draw more than 100mA from the port without authorization from the computer.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
    3. Re:And why the hell do I need a driver for this? by damaki · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Because that when the device is not identified by the OS, the power output is capped to 100mA. When identified, it can go up to 500mA.
      The evident solution would be to use a standard passive driver.

      --
      Stupidity is the root of all evil.
    4. Re:And why the hell do I need a driver for this? by swillden · · Score: 5, Funny

      I have working USB on my computer. Why the hell do I need to install a Motorola XP driver to charge my RAZR?

      Because Windows sucks.

      You didn't expect a different answer from slashdot, did you? ;-)

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    5. Re:And why the hell do I need a driver for this? by corsec67 · · Score: 4, Informative

      In Linux, it seems like the power negotiation is part of the USB driver, not the specific device driver, since every device should do that the same way.

      (So, even if there is NO Linux driver, or with the driver not loaded, the power negotiations can occur)

      Which is a good idea, really.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
    6. Re:And why the hell do I need a driver for this? by Why2K · · Score: 5, Informative
      From the USB standard, section 7.2.1 (emphasis mine):

      A unit load is defined to be 100mA. The number of unit loads a device can draw is an absolute maximum, not an average over time. A device may be either low-power at one unit load or high-power, consuming up to five unit loads. All devices default to low-power. The transition to high-power is under software control. It is the responsibility of software to ensure adequate power is available before allowing devices to consume high-power.

    7. Re:And why the hell do I need a driver for this? by damaki · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not about not charging, it's about charging slowly.

      --
      Stupidity is the root of all evil.
    8. Re:And why the hell do I need a driver for this? by frieko · · Score: 4, Informative

      Clearly Motorola is either (a) being careful to comply fully with the USB spec, or (b) being dicks.

      I would say there's about a 50/50 chance of each.

    9. Re:And why the hell do I need a driver for this? by PitaBred · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Windows USB functionality is severely backwards... why is my damn phone a different device when I plug it into a different USB port? Does the port address somehow magically make it behave differently? Can you tell that it's annoying having to plug every new device into every single port on my computer and installing the driver so that I don't have to worry about that when I actually want to use the device?

      Glad I only use Windows for gaming and to update my Blackberry's software.

      --
      My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
    10. Re:And why the hell do I need a driver for this? by Aczlan · · Score: 4, Informative

      Though I've got no actual hard evidence to back it up, I seriously believe there's some sort of ultra-cheap DRM built into the chargers and phones to prevent you from buying reasonably priced travel/home replacement chargers.

      It APPEARS that the difference is that some USB chargers put out 5.2 volts instead of 5. The phone likes 5.2V. It doesn't appear to like the 5V, but I think it is charging ok anyway. I've never run it down far enough to know for sure, so I can't swear that it does.

      Everything else I charge on both warts charges ok, so I just swap the two if the green light on the phone doesn't come on.

      The "Cheap DRM" is almost correct, the issue is that the "OEM Motorola" chargers have a resistor between pins 2 and 3 (center pins) of the mini USB plug, no USB communication (from a computer), or resistor and the phone wont charge.

      Aaron Z

      --
      "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote
    11. Re:And why the hell do I need a driver for this? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There is a very simple solution to this that does not involve any drivers - USB HID devices.

      I create my own USB devices (http://denki.world3.net) and almost always use HID instead of a special driver. Even if the phone is not a "human interface device", you can just create a special kind of HID device that the computer will basically ignore. You can still do any custom communications you like but the device will install on Windows/Linux/Mac without the need for a driver, and you can specify the amount of current you want.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    12. Re:And why the hell do I need a driver for this? by justzisguy · · Score: 4, Informative

      You certainly can pull 500 mA from a port without the device asking politely, but it won't be compliant with the spec. From the USB 2.0 spec, 7.2.1, "Devices must also ensure that the maximum operating current drawn by a device is one unit load (100 mA), until configured."

      The 5.0 V rail, VBUS, does not monitor the sourced current, making sure that no devices are drawing more than what they've politely asked for. The current limiting is done to protect against a direct short, often limiting a single port to 1 A (or more for ganged ports higher)

  2. oh-so-special? by nine-times · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder how Apple will feel about this? Will they finally realize that their oh-so-special adapter is nothing more than a fudged USB interface?"

    Oh, like Apple is just using the dock connector to be "special"? It's true that the dock connector is *mostly* USB, but it also can carry audio and video so that, with only a dock, you can output to a stereo or TV. Also, the audio put out through the dock is supposedly different from what comes out of the headphone jack (I believe they aren't amplifying the audio from the dock), meaning you can get better quality for outputting to a stereo.

    So I don't know why the submitter has to turn this into an Apple-bashing thing. Apple actually uses standards pretty often. And often, when they do stray from a standard, it's in order to provide specific functionality-- and even then they often release the specs for their version, allowing others to adopt it. For example, I believe they released the specs for their custom "mini display port" that they're using without requiring any kind of licensing fees or anything.

    1. Re:oh-so-special? by Theaetetus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So I don't know why the submitter has to turn this into an Apple-bashing thing. Apple actually uses standards pretty often.

      Apple was the first to push widespread adoption of USB, IEEE1394, 802.11n, and MPEG-4, among many other standards.

    2. Re:oh-so-special? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      On the other hand, they specifically implemented an authentication chip that prevents video output on newer ipods if you use anything but officially blessed cables. There are certainly reasons for the dock connector; but that doesn't change the fact that Apple's approach toward accessory makers has pretty much been "flip over and shake until money stops coming out".

    3. Re:oh-so-special? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's a line level signal as opposed to headphone level signal. There's a difference. If you're running the signal through an external amplifier, you want line level.

    4. Re:oh-so-special? by Logic · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Excellent point. Just to head off other people talking out of their ass (wishful thinking, I know), the pinout for the iPod/iPhone connector ought to be required reading before commenting on what it can and can't do. That connector provides interfaces for USB and Firewire, audio in/out, video out (composite and s-video), serial, and dedicated power.

      It's not an ideal situation, but a single cable covers just about every possible use case. That's a big deal, ergonomically, and it means Apple can standardize internally on an interface across multiple product lines.

      It's unfortunate: the knee-jerk reaction to "we need a universal charger" will miss the opportunity to standardize on a SINGLE interface cable for mobile devices, rather than using USB for power and data, a headphone jack for audio output, and who knows what proprietary arrangement for audio input and video output.

      --
      -Ed Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.
    5. Re:oh-so-special? by bucky0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      [Citation Needed]

      I have a new iPod touch that works fine with some handmedown generic cables.

      --

      -Bucky
    6. Re:oh-so-special? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This and this are examples of the genre.

      I've yet to see much in the way of technical breakdown of the issue; but it is unequivocally the case that they, deliberately, added proprietary secret sauce to the iPod video out process, in order to capture a larger percentage of accessory revenue.

      This article is also worth a look. I doubt that they are doing anything illegal; but Apple is anything but a fuzzy friend of standards with respect to the dock connector.

  3. No legislation required.... by try_anything · · Score: 5, Funny

    The threat of legislation was enough.

    I'm sure the handset makers are deeply saddened by this. Clearly, this unwelcome meddling by government will hurt consumers by ending competition in this vital technical matter. Why, instead of buying the latest high-tech replacement cable custom optimized for advanced synergy with their handset, people might replace a lost cable with an abandoned, misbranded, maybe even second-handed cable from an older handset. This could cost consumers literally incalculable amounts of synergy and innovation. Why won't the government just let capitalism work?

  4. Re:data, audio, and power by nine-times · · Score: 4, Informative

    iPhones don't need RGB or S-Video

    They do if you have movies on them, and want to output those movies onto a TV screen. People probably don't do that very often, but you can do that.

    Audio input and output do not (or at least should not) use the same plug as power/data (otherwise you can't charge your phone and use the headset at the same time).

    iPods and iPhones have 2 different audio outs-- one being the headphone jack, which on the iPhone can also be used for headsets. So you can use that headphone jack while charging. The other audio out is in the dock connector, and it makes it so you can drop the iPhone into the dock and have the dock connect to a stereo. If not for that audio out, you'd have to drop it into the dock and then plug an additional cable from your stereo into the headphone jack.

    Not only would that be slightly annoying and inconvenient, but it's my understanding that the audio from the dock is also handled differently than the headphone jack. I'm not a real audiophile, so I don't remember what the deal is, but it's something like the dock connector not running the audio through the iPhone's built-in amp. The idea is you're going to feed it into a stereo and have volume control through that stereo anyway, so it shouldn't need to deal with that. Instead you (supposedly) get cleaner audio out to your stereo.

  5. Mod parent as +5 VDC by Rayban · · Score: 4, Funny

    And 500 mA of good idea.

    --
    æeee!
  6. Re:Voltage and current by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Posting as AC because i can't log in from work, so i hope this gets seen. I have a USB modem from novatel wireless that has a small amount of memory onboard, and when plugged in mounts itself as a cdrom drive under windows or mac, and pops up to install it's own drivers. (under linux it uses the standard kernel driver for CDMA modems, no extra driver needed). I think it's a pretty cool idea, no matter what OS you're using, two clicks at most from plugging it in and it just WORKS, no driver cd, no needing to download drivers, nothing.