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Will Obama's DOJ Intervene To Help RIAA?
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "In SONY BMG Music Entertainment v. Cloud, a Pennsylvania case in which the RIAA's statutory damages theory — seeking from 2,200 to 450,000 times the amount of actual damages — is being tested, the US Department of Justice has just filed papers indicating that it is considering intervening in the case to defend the constitutionality of such awards, and requesting an extension of time (PDF) in which to decide whether such intervention 'is appropriate.' This is an early test of whether President Obama will make good on his promises (a) not to allow industry insiders to participate in cases affecting the industry they represented (the 2nd and 3rd highest DOJ officials are RIAA lawyers) and (b) to look out for ordinary citizens rather than big corporations."
but I think not...
Let me get this straight. Obama, the man of the people, has a Dept. of Justice filing an amicus brief in order to HELP the extortionate RIAA win their case?
Oh Lord, I wasted my vote.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Come on, really?!? Believing Obama isn't in the pockets of Hollywood (incl. the MPAA and RIAA), trial lawyers, and the unions is as naive as believing Goerge Bush wasn't in the pockets of Wall Street, big oil, and the bible-thumpers.
Every politician is someone's bitch. Hollywood most assuredly produced the carton of cigarettes to buy Obama. And you can bet that they expect results.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Going to various Obama web sites where public submission of comments are facilitated is exactly where people should go to voice their view on these matters. If it is clear to Obama that people are watching and responding, he will have a much more difficult time ignoring the situation and the people and will have an even more difficult time going back on his word. People are still up in the air about Obama's credibility and one negative is worth more than a hundred positives and I know he is well aware of that fact. This early in his presidency, he cannot afford to let his credibility slip. He can't make excuses. He has little choice but to respond as he would be expected.
You can track the progress of Obama's many campaign promises at http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/ - its pretty interesting.
I can only hope that Obama steps in, because this sets a dangerous precedent of things to come.
The musings of just another geek and his junk.
Just because the US federal administration argues that something is constitutional does not necessarily mean that they think it is a good or fair policy.
Atheism is a religion to the same extent that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Obama repeatedly made sure that we knew that his campaign was funded entirely by us the citizens, not lobbyists or businesses. Therefore he should be using the DOJ to protect us from the RIAA, not the other way around. I sure hope he can fix the economy, because this is a strike against him.
Yes I know they worked for the RIAA before. But do they still do so?
If they don't also still work for the RIAA are we sure these lawyers actually even give a damn about the RIAA? Unless they have stocks and shares or whatever in the RIAA companies then what's in it for them if they no longer work for them?
It is possible that these lawyers were just doing it for the money and don't actually give a damn about the company they were working for.
Does anything have anything more damning than that they used to work for the RIAA? do they still? are they receiving money or incentives still from the RIAA?
politifact.com: owned by St. Petersburg Times
St. Petersburg Times: owned by the Poynter Institute
The Poynter Institute is a journalism school well know for its uncommon (in today's world) approach of unbiased reporting and the primacy of fact over sensationalism.
Gotta say, props to you for linking to a neutral site, when there are so many sites "Obama broken promises" sites maintained by partisan hacks.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
A politician lied?
Why is anyone surprised?
You actually were dumb enough to expect different?
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
In SONY BMG Music Entertainment v. Cloud,...
So they've finally done it. The RIAA's legal expertise has lead them to sue the internet.
What do you think of that treaty that is being negotiated in secret? (the one that has popped up in 2 or 3 slashdot stories over the past half year)
Obama isn't being open about that one.
...seeking from 2,200 to 450,000 times the amount of actual damages...
I've only seen up to 8000, anything over 9000 would just be ridiculous.
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Oh yes, because the Republicans have done so much to help the little people from the big business RIAA. Both parties are on the side of the RIAA. If you thought a vote for Obama would change the RIAA legal battles, you were sadly mistaken.
Well we know that the Bush DOJ was anxious to intervene on the RIAA's behalf. We don't yet know that about the Obama DOJ. This will be an interesting test.
Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
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Doesn't matter, there's an implied conflict of interest in intervening on behalf of former employers.
the problem I see is that Bush while supported corporations seemed truly to protect the country and did what he thought best. So far all I see is Obama ceding authority and decisions to others. He seems adept at not taking action himself or taking responsibility. He is after face time and "credit" but credit without owning anything. The stimulus bill was handed over to Pelosi and Reid and he flew around campaigning with doom and gloom if it wasn't signed. Bush just stayed either out of sight or just said it was going to be done and did it.
Yeah you wasted your vote but don't feel bad. We didn't know jack shit about the guy other than he wasn't a Republican (I did not vote for either of these two so maybe I wasted my vote by not voting against him but no good conservative could vote for McCain like we could not vote for Obama).
Look, what little of his voting record existed should have told you his stance. We had two poor choices and after seeing the stimulus bill and the fear mongering used to push it I know we got it wrong. But hey, its America, there is only so much damage that can be done. Will we recover, certainly, will it be hard, yes. Yet we made this choice as a country and we as a country will bear it.
Who knows, he could suddenly wake up and realize that being President means living up to the hype and promise of his campaign. Its early. The stimulus bill was strike two (Geitner & related were strike one). Lets see where he goes from here. As they say, we can only go up - and I hope that is true.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
look out for ordinary citizens rather than big corporations
Just because Party A is an "ordinary citizen" and Party B is a "big corporation" doesn't mean that Party A should be able to harm Party B with impunity.
NewYorkCountryLawyer, for all the good work he is doing, seems to include verbiage like this in almost every post that makes it to the front page. Over and over... the industry is suing "ordinary folks"... they should stop suing "ordinary folks"... evil big corporation vs. noble, innocent ordinary folks...
I happen to be in the camp that the historical reasons for copyright are no longer extant and that massive reform should be done. But this verbiage disturbs me.
Our legal system should provide facilities for party A to address grievances with party B, whether B is big and A is small, or vice versa. It shouldn't be the goal (as the verbiage seems to suggest) that the legal system should be rigged to favor the smaller party in a dispute.
So you're ok with people having to pay $1200/song if they got caught downloading? You don't have a problem with the DOJ supporting overly harsh punishment?
Believe it or not the now overturned Jammie Thomas verdict was for $9250 per song file. Even the presiding judge has pointed out how ridiculous it was.
Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
Here's how I understand the motion. Can a lawyer comment if the DOJ's request is just standard procedure? On October 29, 2008, the Defendant (Denise Cloud) challenges the constitutionality of the statutory damages section of 17 U.S.C 504c. Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 5.1a says that the Attorney General can intervene in any constitutional challenge within 60 days. This motion requests more time for the DOJ to study whether they should intervene beyond the 60 days. The DOJ may have 3 outcomes: They can reject the challenge. They can allow the challenge to proceed and not interfere. They can also support the challenge.
It is a new administration so we can't be sure which way they will lean. However it maybe that this administration is just more diligent and attentive than the previous administrations to this issue. The Bush administration seemed to be more focused on other legal issues.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
ACK! ACK ACK ACK!
Living in Clearwater (and having the St. Pete Times as my newspaper), I assure you that they are NOT neutral in any sense of the word.
In addition to their editorial page being constantly slanted left, they regularly spin their new stories in the same way.
I have been following the politifact.com site since I found it weeks ago. In fact, I subscribe to the RSS feed here: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/feeds/updates/
My main problem with this site in particular is that they count broken promises as "in progress" or "compromise", and they add new promises all the time. This doesn't just track promises made during the campaign: if he says (as president) he'll do something next week, and then he does it, it counts as a "Promise Kept". This ensures that their numbers always skew to the "Promise Kept" side.
That said, I find the site entertaining, if irritating. I just hate the idea that anyone things it's "Fair" or "Neutral".
When the republicans hoist up someone who has a plan for their office besides attacking abortion and gays...
Citation please.
OK, Republicans are against abortion, and for the most part, always will be. You see, we see it as killing babies. You may not think it's a baby, but a simple DNA test will prove that it really is a separate human than either the mother or the father. So, yeah, we see it as killing babies and will continue to stand against it. Neither a mother, nor anyone else should have the "right" to kill anyone else that is no threat and has committed no crime.
Besides, after eight years of a Republican president, many of those with a Republican controlled congress, we still have abortions and gays. So....
Citation please.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
You have two lawyers with proven track records of a) using evidence that was obtained illegally, and b) suing people with no evidence at all, c) suing the wrong people, and d) participating in a campaign of frivolous litigation.
The only way the administration could have done worse was to appoint Jack Thompson.
They're using their grammar skills there.
The DOJ is just asking for some more time in which to decide whether intervention is appropriate. That is a good thing, not a bad thing. The more time they have to make up their mind, the more likely it is they will make the right decision and do the right thing, which in this case would be to do nothing and take no position and leave it up to the Judge to sort out whether the RIAA's theory is unconstitutional.
Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
I would like to add that what I see in in republicans, or rather conservatives, being against abortion is not so much about [not] killing babies but rather about having a sense of personal responsibility. "Life" could be the ultimate responsibility of sexual activity and could serve as the ultimate deterrent to pre-marital sex. As long as there is abortion there is little at stake.
Not that I prescribe to such a system but I can appreciate the argument.
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As someone who lived inside the city limits of Cleveland when 'Dennis the Menace' told off CEI and thus set the stage for Cleveland's default, I can categorically classify him as an idiot. The 'competition' that was 'provided' by Munincipal Light was a few cents cheaper than CEI's rates, but it pissed CEI off bigtime because they were forced by law to supply Muni Light with all their electricity below cost. Don't think the guys in the back rooms didn't keep that in mind when reassessing Cleveland's bond rating. 'Kicking CEI's ass' won him votes in the next election, but it did nothing to fix the streets.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
This is the dark side of the Obama candidacy in my opinion, completely predictable from the moment he chose Joe "Media Industry Lacky" Biden as his running-mate.
If the Bush administration was pandering to the energy industry, this one will be pandering to the traditional media industries. What will be most interesting will be seeing how this administration balances telecommunications and new media interests versus more traditional media interests. I predict they'll tie themselves in knots even the most adept contortionist couldn't imagine.
the Justice Department has to support the laws as written before the courts
Yes but every member of the Justice Department, and indeed every attorney, takes an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States. Not a particular provision, or interpretation of a provision, of the Copyright Act. I.e., while we are bound to protect and defend "the law", the chief "law" we are bound to protect and defend is the Constitution of the United States. The United States Supreme Court has held that punitive damages which exceed by more than nine times the actual damages are presumptively unconstitutional. The United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, the Northern District of California, and the Eastern District of New York have held that statutory damages may well be subject to the same principle. No cases have held to the contrary. And two excellent law review articles have argued forcefully that the statutory damages scheme of the Copyright Act, providing for MINIMUM damages of $750 per infringement, is in fact unconstitutional as applied to the micropayment p2p file sharing cases -- i.e. if each 99-cent song file creates a $750 to $150,000 liability.
Indeed the RIAA's damages theory is not even consistent with basic tenets of copyright law, of long standing, that statutory damage awards are required to bear a reasonable relationship to the actual damages sustained.
So the DOJ should stay far away from defending this nonsense. They have much more important things to do than to ensure that college students be exposed to damages which even the courts recognize are ludicrous. See, e.g., the last 3 or 4 pages of Judge Davis's decision in Capitol v. Thomas.
Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
Anyone think that's it's a bit too coincidental that this was announced on the same day the stimulus bill was signed and troops were ordered to Afghanistan? Pretty much guaranteed to not get a single lick of major press.
Moderation is not supposed to be used as an indicator of agreement.
To NYCL: Thank you for putting a relevant ad on your page (the one to the independent download shop). That was the first internet ad I've intentionally clicked on in years. We should be so lucky that all sites would do that.
Funny you should say that because just a couple of days ago I decided to take down the Google AdSense ads, which are supposed be directly relevant to my site's content but just aren't, and to start concentrating on ads that are consistent with the subject matter of the blog. Also, I came to the conclusion that the ads for independent music downloads are the most important thing I can feature, since the more independent music that is bought, the sooner the RIAA will go down. Meanwhile, I have the classified ads, which are hosted on a different page, if they just want to help me out by buying stuff through my links.
Thank you very much for the input.
Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
isn't the government obligated to defend any laws that are being called unconstitutional?
No.
Or if they have discretion in the matter, what discretion are they allowed?
Virtually unlimited discretion. They can refrain if they think the statute may indeed be unconstitutional, or if they just don't like it, or if they think they shouldn't intervene in a private dispute, or if they just think they have better things to do with their limited resources than gang up with the RIAA against some college student.
Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful