Facebook Scrambles To Contain ToS Fallout

Ian Lamont writes "Anger over Facebook's ToS update has forced the company to scramble. Yesterday, a spokesman released a statement that said Facebook has never 'claimed ownership of material that users upload,' and is trying to be more open to users about how their data is being handled. Mark Zuckerberg has also weighed in, stating 'we wouldn't share your information in a way you wouldn't want.' Facebook members are skeptical, however — protests have sprung up on blogs, message boards, and a new Facebook group called 'People Against the new Terms of Service' that has added more than 10,000 members today."

Comments

Oh, that's all right then

[Scutter]

As long as they promised, there's nothing to worry about, right?

Re:Oh, that's all right then

[DanWS6]

Yeah, I for one would trust Mark Zuckerberg completely.



I couldn't even type that with a straight face. lol.

Re:Oh, that's all right then

[Bieeanda]

Absolutely, especially after they proved themselves during the Beacon fiasco. Proved that they can't be trusted not to stab with one hand while they stroke with another, that is.

Re:Oh, that's all right then

[at_slashdot]

The problem is that people already use Facebook and they are invested in it (they have friends, pictures, etc) and this is a change in TOS that you can't refuse, if you just leave Facebook the TOS says (from what I understand) that they have control over your info... so what use to leave now?

Re:Oh, that's all right then

[chaoticgeek]

Actually it was easy for me... I found all the people I actually cared about on the site. Which happened to be all my friends because I did not add everyone under the sun. Told them how to get in touch with me, then proceeded to delete everything I had uploaded in the first place. Started removing all information about me, which was not much because I was never very fond of putting up all my info on there anyways. Then closed the account. So they can have my schools email and that I play guitar and like anime but that is about it. Sure they may have backups but screw it I'll live. And I don't mind not having facebook anymore either.

Re:Oh, that's all right then

[malkir]

Exactly true - at the beginning of 2008 I got fed up with the site and deleted my account.

Peer pressure and boredom brought be back 3 months later and I remade an account with the same information - to my suprise my ENTIRE account was restored, I mean EVERYTHING. Every picture, every comment, every message, every tagged photo... everything you do on Facebook is stored away for good.

Re:Oh, that's all right then

[Anonymous Coward]

There's two kinds of people in this world: People who have been fucked over by Mark Zuckerberg and people who will be fucked over by Mark Zuckerberg. More like 1.5, since he takes douchebag viagra and will gladly fuck you over again.

True story -- I saw him at a bar about a year ago, in the men's room of all places. (No, this story doesn't involve eating shit). He was acting like a douchebag, cock of the walk and all, taking a piss and talking on his phone. I punched him in the back of the head as I was leaving. He dropped his blackberry in the fucking urinal, but I didn't stick around to see his reaction.

Re:Oh, that's all right then

[squidinkcalligraphy]

This sums up all that's wrong about facebook 'protest' groups and 'causes'. You join a cause, then get a warm and fuzzy feeling that you've actually done something. YOU HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING APART FROM CLICKING THE MOUSE! It's even more useless than email petitions. Want to make a difference? Write a letter to your politician, go to a protest, start a boycott, strike, blockade, start a campaign group, talk to people in the street, stand on a soapbox, fuck some shit up. But it's gonna take a hell of a lot more effort than joining a facebook group.

Re:Oh, that's all right then

[Hordeking]

Boycotts aren't supposed to be easy. Neither is any other passive protest. Ghandi didn't go "oh well shit, this is hard, you win".

If you really want Facebook to pay attention, start letter writing campaigns to their advertisers. Start boycotting their advertisers

Better solution: Also harass them, using the phone lines. Jam down their lines.

Facebook, Inc.
156 University Ave or 471 Emerson Street
Palo Alto, CA 94301

Phone: 650-543-4800
Fax: 650-543-4801
Press: 650-543-4811
Unknown: 650-853-1300âZ
http://www.facebook.com/

Re:Oh, that's all right then

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, so now I understand what happened that night.

Just minding my own business and some jerk punches me in the back of my head. You owe me for a Blackberry. What kind of anonymous coward punches you while you're pissing?

Glad you can ID people from the back of their heads.

Re:Oh, that's all right then

[TubeSteak]

Proved that they can't be trusted not to stab with one hand while they stroke with another, that is.

I don't understand why they even bothered with that blog posting.
Nothing he said contradicts the new TOS and his post generally boils down to:
"trust us not to enforce the plain language of the TOS."

Re:Oh, that's all right then

[omglolbah]

Pictures are never deleted off disk. Their storage infrastructure doesnt do it as they use a custom filesystem (There was a talk about it published a while ago).

Re:Oh, that's all right then

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like the blog was taken down. Here it is in full (Google cache still has it stored):

A couple of weeks ago, we updated our terms of use to clarify a few points for our users. A number of people have raised questions about our changes, so I'd like to address those here. I'll also take the opportunity to explain how we think about people's information.

Our philosophy is that people own their information and control who they share it with. When a person shares information on Facebook, they first need to grant Facebook a license to use that information so that we can show it to the other people they've asked us to share it with. Without this license, we couldn't help people share that information.

One of the questions about our new terms of use is whether Facebook can use this information forever. When a person shares something like a message with a friend, two copies of that information are created--one in the person's sent messages box and the other in their friend's inbox. Even if the person deactivates their account, their friend still has a copy of that message. We think this is the right way for Facebook to work, and it is consistent with how other services like email work. One of the reasons we updated our terms was to make this more clear.

In reality, we wouldn't share your information in a way you wouldn't want. The trust you place in us as a safe place to share information is the most important part of what makes Facebook work. Our goal is to build great products and to communicate clearly to help people share more information in this trusted environment.

We still have work to do to communicate more clearly about these issues, and our terms are one example of this. Our philosophy that people own their information and control who they share it with has remained constant. A lot of the language in our terms is overly formal and protective of the rights we need to provide this service to you. Over time we will continue to clarify our positions and make the terms simpler.

Still, the interesting thing about this change in our terms is that it highlights the importance of these issues and their complexity. People want full ownership and control of their information so they can turn off access to it at any time. At the same time, people also want to be able to bring the information others have shared with them--like email addresses, phone numbers, photos and so on--to other services and grant those services access to those people's information. These two positions are at odds with each other. There is no system today that enables me to share my email address with you and then simultaneously lets me control who you share it with and also lets you control what services you share it with.

We're at an interesting point in the development of the open online world where these issues are being worked out. It's difficult terrain to navigate and we're going to make some missteps, but as the leading service for sharing information we take these issues and our responsibility to help resolve them very seriously. This is a big focus for us this year, and I'll post some more thoughts on openness and these other issues soon.

Re:Oh, that's all right then

[Orlando]

The best way to hit them is NOT TO USE THE DAMN SITE! How simple can it be?

Re:Oh, that's all right then

[MrAngryForNoReason]

The irony of creating a facebook group to protest about the actions of facebook seems to be escaping a lot of people....

Serves you right

[Gothmolly]

Its enormously popular, and (to some) provides a lot of value... and its free. What did you THINK they were going to do with the info you have up there ? It's a massive social engineering/data mining study, and you're taking part in it.

Re:Serves you right

[Jim Robinson Jr.]

Agreed. Someone went to a lot of effort, and spends a huge stack of cash every month to keep FB operating and providing those free services. Very little in life is truly free... and this is no different.

They provide us with an entertaining and occasionally useful service without any cash changing hands, but that doesn't mean there isn't a cost involved.

Don't like that they can re-use your "private" data? Don't post it. Want to post it? Regardless of whether your talking about Facebook, some other social site, or even just old-fashioned web pages, as soon as you post it... it's publicly available and there is nothing you can really do to prevent it.

My advice to FB users (that includes me) is to use the same common sense you should be using everywhere: don't post something your mother couldn't read. It's corny, but that perspective could keep a lot of people out of trouble.

If you really want something private, don't use a public social site to post it. There are plenty of web hosting companies to choose from, and for just a few dollars every month you can have space for a web page and stored files. Just find a secured template... and remember that nothing is ever - EVER - truly secure if it is publicly accessible.

Cheers, and happy Facebooking!

Jim

And begat the Fed Trade Commission complaint...

[strredwolf]

Facebook Privacy Change Sparks Federal Complaint

For those who don't like long reads: Promises aren't enough. EPIC wants it reversed, and is filling a Federal Trade Commission complaint.

People Against the new Terms of Service

[Lank]

Here's a link to this group:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=77069107432

Re:Facebook has had an evil ToS for awhile

[TuaAmin13]

Don't forget, it's not unified protest either. There'll be a dozen groups "protesting" the same thing because someone didn't think about using the search feature.

If you don't believe me, look for groups against duplicate groups.

Good thing I'm safe

[JeanBaptiste]

I only use myspace, gmail + other google services, LinkedIn, and twitter. They certainly don't fit your description, so I'm good.

how have you committed digital seppuku?

[JeanBaptiste]

You posted a comment on slashdot, with your homepage set to techiehelplist.com, which a whois shows is registered to a Jamie B*****n with complete address in a state south of Idaho. It took less time to find that out than it took to type this comment. (If it's _not_ you, it's a pretty good start).

I don't know how to commit digital seppuku myself, but I think you're doing it wrong ;-P

(all in fun)

Re:how have you committed digital seppuku?

[gandhi_2]

I did it with this.

What's funny is the delete form now says:

Deleting due to change in Terms of Service

Are you deleting because you are concerned about Facebook's Terms of Service?

This was a mistake that we have now corrected. You own the information you put on Facebook and you control what happens to it. We are sorry for the confusion.

- The Facebook Team

Re:The biggest problem == no exit strategy

[mixmatch]

I think Gmail is the same; do they provide a way to export your email so that you can upload it to some other provider? Yeah, I didn't think so.

You mean like by using IMAP or POP?

CNN Used My Facebook Info

[maj0rm0j0]

I'm thinking this is the biggest reason for the ToS change. Rick Sanchez is on CNN every weekday between 3-4PM. Those of you that have seen his show knows that he takes questions from people on Facebook, Twitter and MySpace. I posted a question on Rick Sanchez's facebook page and was watching the show and *BAM* there is my full name, picture, and question live and full screen on CNN. The question was answered by the 3rd most powerful congressman in America. I never received any notice that they were going to post it and I've been trying for days to get a copy of the episode for my own collection. Rick won't reply to my messages and I haven't been able to get a copy going the suggested route by CNN through a company that handles purchasing episodes for them. They won't reply either... Go figure.

So?

[Ender_Wiggin]

Am I the only one who read the article?

One of the questions about our new terms of use is whether Facebook can use this information forever. When a person shares something like a message with a friend, two copies of that information are createdâ"one in the person's sent messages box and the other in their friend's inbox. Even if the person deactivates their account, their friend still has a copy of that message. We think this is the right way for Facebook to work, and it is consistent with how other services like email work. One of the reasons we updated our terms was to make this more clear.

That makes sense to me.

Re:Lawyers with too much power

[caitsith01]

IAAL, and I disagree. We don't spend our time making stuff up and convincing our client's it's what they want.

You can rest assured that this is exactly what Facebook was after, and that their instructions to their reflect it. If you tell lawyers to make something as favourable as possible, that's exactly what they'll do.