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Steps Toward a Universal Flu Vaccine
Plasmoid writes "The NYTimes is reporting that scientists have starting developing what could turn out to be a 'universal' flu vaccine. They created antibody proteins that can neutralize different strains of the influenza virus, including the deadly H5N1 bird flu, the virus behind the 1918 epidemic, and common seasonal strains. These new antibodies target part of the virus that is shared between different strains and thus appear to be broadly effective. However, some experts question whether a universal vaccine of this kind is even possible, since the human body has been unable to come up with an antibody solution. An article on nature.com describes the work further."
There was a talk about this at TED. Turns out the same ideas of shared virus parts can be used to identify and diagnose, or even as this article suggests, cure various diseases very quickly.
So either evolution is perfect and has already done it or it can't be done?
Keep in mind that every single vaccine out there merely uses your natural immune system. All vaccines do is present the immune system with a target, then the immune system does it's work. That's it. Vaccines absolutely rely on the immune system. So yes, if the immune system absolutely can't make you immune to every flu virus, then we can't make a vaccine that could.
A non-vaccine based approach might work, like the antiviral cocktails used to treat AIDS, but that's horribly inefficient, would require constant medication, and could end up making superflu. Really the best solutions all end with priming the immune system to do the dirty work.
You're right - the researchers don't make that claim at all.
From TFA in Nature (emphasis mine):
It seems to me like both sides of the disagreement over whether or not this could lead to a "universal" influenza vaccine are running their mouths without much data.
I was fortunate enough to be working with general practitioners during the bird flu scare, and between high school biology and the catch-up courses being run for the doctors about bird flu at the time I have a decent working knowledge of the subject.
In brief: please provide links for your paranoid delusions, I'd enjoy the read.
The flu variant believed to be responsible for the 1918 pandemic killed by causing a cytokine storm (wiki it yourself) - the host immune system overreacts and kills the host. Of course this is most effective against otherwise healthy people with a strong immune system that can really kick some ass... against their own body.
Yes it is. It's widely studied. All flu viruses are of avian origin and most of them can't even infect pigs and humans, the secondary carriers. The ones that can can be very deadly against humans because while human-specific diseases can't be deadly enough to kill their hosts often or the virus won't have anywhere to live, avian flu can persist as a minor annoyance in bird populations then leap out to massacre some humans from time to time.
You suggest that the pharmaceutical industry has duped the entire medical profession into believing in a disease that doesn't even exist, and will inject the entire population with a potentially lethal disease causing agent, causing massive global economic collapse simply because they can get paid for every unit they produce? No comment.
.evom ton seod gis eht
"However, some experts question whether a universal vaccine of this kind is even possible, since the human body has been unable to come up with an antibody solution. "
Using this logic we shouldn't have come up with vaccines for smallpox, polio or rabies either.
We were able to come up with vaccines specifically because the body can come up with an antibody solution. Those vaccines (all vaccines) work by stimulating the production of the same antibodies it would produce to fight an infection.
The challenge here is to develop a vaccine that causes the body to produce antibodies that it would NOT produce in response to an infection. This vaccine must cause the body to produce antibodies that are more general than those it would produce for any specific flu, but still specific enough that they won't attack anything beneficial.
I'm not a doctor. But I did take health in 9th grade.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
"However, some experts question whether a universal vaccine of this kind is even possible, since the human body has been unable to come up with an antibody solution. "
Using this logic we shouldn't have come up with vaccines for smallpox, polio or rabies either.
Actually, people do come up with "antibody solutions" to smallpox and polio - at least the ones that survive do. If you came down with smallpox or polio, and you survived it, you'd never contract it again, even if you were exposed later. This is due to the antibodies your body generates against the viruses. That's how we came up with the idea for vaccines in the first place - people knew that giving young kids smallpox prevents later infections (assuming they don't die the first time around) - all Jenner did was realize that you could use cowpox to the same effect, with less of the "die the first time around" bit.
Rabies is a little different, as it is uniformly 100% fatal unless treated - but that's really because the disease acts faster than the immune system can. The immune system can produce antibodies against the virus, it's just that rabies kills you before they can do their job.
The quoted argument is that if it was possible to get immunity by targeting antibodies to the stalk, a significant number of people who survive one strain of the flu should develop such a "universal" immunity (because in developing antibodies, our bodies try out stuff randomly - and in a random search someone should find any viable solution), and thus never come down with *any* flu strain ever again. That's not what we see though - even if you get immunity to one flu strain, you're still susceptible to the rest. Ergo, the universal immunity probably doesn't work as well as you would think.
They have never been toxic, ever.
The mercury was about 3-5 Nano Grams with a half life of 4 days. Completely undetectable in 30 days.
Just an FYI
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on