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The Future of Google Chrome

TRNick writes "Lars Bak, who heads up development of Google Chrome's cornerstone javascript engine, talks about why Google is so focused on in-browser javascript performance, the role Chrome has played in driving up javascript performance in other browsers, and why it's taking so long to introduce support for third-party extensions. 'The web is becoming an integral part of the computer and the basic distinction between the OS and the browser doesn't matter very much any more,' he says."

29 of 294 comments (clear)

  1. I know the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Being uninstalled?

    1. Re:I know the future... by Kagura · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Being uninstalled?

      Until they get support for Firefox addons or get a base of addons equal to Firefox's, it won't be going on my computer anymore. ;*( I used it for about two weeks after its release, and then switched back to Firefox and never looked back.

    2. Re:I know the future... by Ninnle+Labs,+LLC · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because not everyone in the world is a programmer?

    3. Re:I know the future... by 0xABADC0DA · · Score: 4, Insightful

      if you really so sick of getting that noscript/adblock add-on, why not develop one yourself and contribute back to the project?

      Time to develop extensions support and equivalent noscript add-on: six months, full time
      Time to complain about lack of extensions in Google Chrome: <10 seconds

      Your question is why people don't give up 6 months of their time instead of complaining why Google released a browser without modern features? That's madness. Developers work on open source for free when they feel like it, so unless some developer is really excited about reinventing NoScript they are going to complain instead.

      And I'll go even further and turn the tables on you. If you are so sick of people complaining about lack of extensions why haven't you fixed it yet? And even if you are contributing to the project, why are you taking your free time to complain about everybody else instead of working on plugins? The chromium code is right there, so get back to work.

    4. Re:I know the future... by crf00 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Because not everyone in Slashdot is a programmer?

      Now fixed that for ya.

    5. Re:I know the future... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because not everyone in the world is a programmer?

      I'm a programmer. But that doesn't mean I don't have better things to do than play with web browsers.

      If I wanted to work on yet another solution to an already solved problem, I would write accounting software for fun.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    6. Re:I know the future... by BIGELLOW · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think it is important to add that Google Chrome already supports add-ons (well, user scripts)... the types that block ads... customize sites... etc... I use these user scripts all the time, and these weren't ones I wrote myself... these are ones written by others.

      What Chrome does not yet have is the ability for non-techies to easily find and install these user scripts. That is definitely coming, but everyone just needs to be patient. Also what is coming is the ability for such add-ons to modify and tweak the UI.

  2. As we've seen. by stonedcat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As we've seen with Windows and IE.... the distinction between browser and and OS matters quite a bit. That is if you don't want to get accused of being and evil monopoly.

    --
    You can't take the sky from me.
    1. Re:As we've seen. by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It was truly an odd thing for Google to say just days after they joined the EU antitrust case against MS over the this very distinction.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    2. Re:As we've seen. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are fairly clearly two different senses of "distinction" at work here.

      The lawsuit concerns the question of whether or not a web browser is structurally distinct from the OS or not: is it an integral component, or an instance of bundling of two essentially unrelated things.

      This interview concerns the developer's observation that people's use of the browser doesn't draw much of a distinction between the browser and the OS(in that they consider the computer broken if web access isn't working, and in that they consider webapps to be on par with native apps).

      It is also quite possible that, shockingly, an individual developer, speaking semiformally about his project, has a slightly different view than does Google's legal department, speaking on behalf of Google's official position.

    3. Re:As we've seen. by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      in that they consider the computer broken if web access isn't working

      I suspect that will be MS's essential defense of bundling a default brower (IE) with Windows. People EXPECT any modern OS to come with a default browser. Most of them don't even realize the browser is a distinct program from the OS itself. The argument against MS not bundling a browser with their OS is a relic from the 90's. These days it would be suicide for anyone to release an OS without built-in web capability right out of the box.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    4. Re:As we've seen. by Tarlus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Buzzwords like "cloud computing" and "online OS" don't change the fact that this is not a paradigm shift

      And "netbook."

      Thank you for writing this post, it really nails my opinion of the matter on the head as well. This whole new webapp craze has created such a stink in the IT world because so many people assume that it's going to phase out good-old-fashioned binaries. This is simply not the case. Like any tool, webapps are extremely useful for the right job. Regular binary programs are extremely useful for the right job. Writing a document with a webapp that is OS-independent and stored remotely is a nifty idea (especially if your laptop dies or is stolen, your data is safe), but the thought of something like MatLab, number-crunching or large spreadsheets using Javascript makes me cringe. Of course, people out there are still going to try doing this, and that's the crappy part about webapp popularity.

      The two approaches just need to find a balance and coexist. There will continue to be a distinction between webapps and the local OS because there will continue to be different people who have different uses for their computers. Average Joe will not know or care what OS is on his Eee as long as he can use his Google Mail and Google Calendar and Google Documents... and as long he knows that when the Eee is pickpocketed or dropped and broken, he can still get his data back from Google using another computer. IT Dude Tarlus (me) will continue to be anal-retentive about my OS, my software and the more advanced applications I have for them. I admit that I have written and use webapps, but only because they're the best tool for the job at hand. But I'll stick with a native word processor. (And no vasectomy, please.) =)

      --
      /* No Comment */
    5. Re:As we've seen. by pixelcort · · Score: 5, Informative

      Too late. Google Docs is already here, a JavaScript word processor with real-time collaboration features.

      --
      http://pixelcort.com/
  3. The whole point of Chrome by LeDopore · · Score: 5, Insightful

    is that its future per se doesn't matter.

    What Google cares about is that there is a least one standards-compliant browser out there with fast javascript. Sure Google might have a slight preference for people using Chrome over another browser with fast javascript (like, say, Safari), but what really matters to them is that they are able to deliver web apps that are fast enough to be reasonable competitors to traditional desktop apps.

    Chrome is a combination insurance policy/open-source soapbox whose purpose is to make sure that Google apps (and other web apps) will always have a browser to run on.

    --
    Expected time to finish is 1 hour and 60 minutes.
    1. Re:The whole point of Chrome by Aladrin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think it's more important that it's a challenge to the rest of the 'market' to catch up on Javascript performance. I don't think they -really- expect their browser to be the best or even have a decent market share... They just need something to point to and say 'See, it's possible. Why haven't you done it yet?'

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    2. Re:The whole point of Chrome by Deag · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It is interesting the while javascript is being more and more heavily used, it is in a way like development tools have been reset 10 years.

      Maybe I have been blind, but I have yet to come across a decent IDE for javascript development. All the nice features like code completion and even syntax checking are now no longer a given.

      Even some decent syntax checking would be nice. I would like to know how much time is lost now on developers looking for typos in their js code. The only way you discover them is to run the code. And even then, the errors generated are not always helpful.

      And debugging is getting more complicated. Stuff like venkman and firebug work for basic standard linked javascript, but the newer libraries use so many shortcuts in declaring objects that no debuggers just can't seem to keep up.

      A lot of this is with any script that is weakly typed. So many libraries and scripts take advantage and abuse this.

      Now these same libraries are abstracting so much of what is hard browser differences and the like out. So that is good. But with this only really being at the start of being heavily used. I can see some real ugly legacy applications around in five years time.

      And this type of scripting is popping up everywhere, I see servers now that have javascript running on the server, and other devices using them for UI.

    3. Re:The whole point of Chrome by Artifex33 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'd suggest you check out IntelliJ's IDEA 8.0. I've been developing interfaces for the web for ten years now, and I've come across nothing with such comprehensive and accurate support for js coding. Both your complaints about code completion and syntax checking are handled by IDEA accurately.

      Some other developers in my group swear by MyEclipse's js handling, but I haven't had any personal experience with it in the past couple of years. My last impression of it was that its color-coding wasn't as detailed as IDEA's. Still, MyEclipse is open-source, so check it out first and see if it takes care of your needs.

      For debugging, Firebug is still your best bet, though I believe IE's debugger has been making huge strides lately, and is better than Firebug for automatically handling breakpoints--in Firebug, you have to search through your .js files in order to manually place a breakpoint, and then that can get weird if you have iframes to deal with.

  4. Re:annoyed by Stormwatch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Am I the only one annoyed by "Google are..."

    That is UK-English, it seems TechRadar is a British site. I agree, it sounds really strange and illogical if you are used to US-English.

  5. <script type="text/python"> by PetoskeyGuy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I would rather have the browser guys work on getting something OTHER than javascript into the browsers. Javascript is getting better, but you only polish a turd so much.

  6. JavaScript assembly language by radarsat1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    With compilers like GWT, Pyjamas, and HotRuby, I sometimes wonder if JavaScript is starting to emerge as a "portable assembly language" for dynamic languages, the way C is often used by higher-level language compilers. I mean, when it comes down to it JS is basically just hash tables and closures, some of the basic elements required for dynamic language execution.

    Given a fast-as-C javascript engine, you could have a pretty decent VM to share between several dynamic languages, and due to JS's dynamic nature compiling these languages to JS is fairly trivial.

    I mentioned this once on reddit and someone called it a 'braindead' approach. That may be true. I'm not sure. He also pointed out that many things you'd have to do to get languages like Ruby running in JS would require passing the context as a function argument, which he claimed would probably bypass any potential optimization by the JS compiler. Not sure about that either.

    But I find it really interesting (and cool!) that JS's heavy web presence is giving it such attention in both the "compiler backend" and optimization departments simultaneously. Whether it's a braindead approach or not, it sure seems to be drawing a lot of interest lately.

  7. Re:annoyed by daybot · · Score: 4, Funny

    it sounds really strange and illogical if you are used to US-English

    Yeah, the normal and logical may seem that way if you're used to something so strange and illogical as US English - putting 'z' in almost every word, and I mean, MM/DD/YYYY? come on!

    Just kidding... we love how you've butchere^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hembraced our language :)

  8. If the browser is the OS... by MobyTurbo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How come it's Windows-only still if the browser is all that matters and the OS isn't, Google?

  9. Re:annoyed by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Funny

    We embraced during the colonial period. After the revolution we extended(and had Noah Webster ram our extensions through a standards body to give them an air of legitimacy).

    Don't worry, nothing bad could possibly happen next.

  10. Re:annoyed by john.wingfield · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To be fair, we've butchered Latin as well as German.

  11. Re:annoyed by m.ducharme · · Score: 5, Funny

    incidentally, you may be unaware of the distinction made in the UK between pants and trousers, i.e. that pants are what one wears under trousers.

    --
    Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
  12. Re:How Many People Even Use Chrome? by jitterman · · Score: 5, Informative

    Call me ignorant, or rash, or just living on the edge, but I actually use it on a daily basis for *almost everything. I haven't installed FF on this (brand new) machine and don't plan on it simply due to its bloat and slowness - things it didn't have when it was introduced.

    Chrome introduced features which IE and FF either have since included as well or are planned for future releases. I am certainly aware that Chrome is quite limited in some areas, but in the end its speed, flexibility, small memory footprint, and physical layout (minimal intrusion into the web page display area) make it my first choice despite its drawbacks. Feel free to correct me where I may be ignorant (seriously, no sarcasm intended).

    *Every now and then I find a web app that's just not well coded (mostly due to funky CSS that's poorly formed) that works or at least displays properly in IE but not Chrome. C'est la vie.

    --
    For conscience is the wound, and there's naught to staunch it
  13. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  14. I disagree by brunes69 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The problem is people still fail to grasp the difference between Javascript and DOM and CSS manipulation....

    All Javascript engines have been ECMA compliant for 5 years now. Javascript incomparability is not the problem, it is the DOM and CSS incompatabilities.

  15. Re:annoyed by teh+kurisu · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is why Superman dresses as he does. He landed in America, and was told to wear his pants on the outside.