Slashdot Mirror


Scientists Build an Ark To Save Jungle Amphibians

Peace Corps Online writes "In the 1980s a deadly fungus called chytrid appeared in Central America and began moving through mountain streams, killing as many as 8 out of 10 frogs and extinguishing some species entirely. (The fungus has little effect on any other vertebrates.) Now a returned Peace Corps volunteer and her husband have opened the El Valle Amphibian Conservation Center in western Panama to house more than 600 frogs as chytrid cuts a lethal path through the region. Experts agree that the only hope of saving some of the more endangered, restricted-range species is to collect animals from remaining wild populations, establish captive breeding programs, and be prepared to conduct reintroduction projects in the future. But before reintroduction can even begin, scientists must find some way to overcome the chytrid in native habitats using vaccines, breeding for resistance, or genetic engineering of the fungus. Conservationists are budgeting for 25 years of captive breeding, long enough, they believe, to allow some response to chytrid to be found. 'There are more species in need of rescue than there are resources to rescue them,' says Amphibian Ark's program director. 'When you're talking about insidious threats like disease or climate change, threats that can't be mitigated in the wild, there's simply no alternative.'"

34 of 127 comments (clear)

  1. Nature? by Brimmith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I understand that we dont want frogs to die off in that region but why mess with nature. If we vaccinate these frogs and there numbers swell; what are those consequences going to be? Im sure that the frogs will adapt to the environment and overcome.

    1. Re:Nature? by icebike · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > Im sure that the frogs will adapt to the environment and overcome.

      And if they don't, something else will.

      No tasty bug goes un-eaten for long.

      Nature abhors a vacuum.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:Nature? by Urkki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wacko nature lovers aside, but what you talk about "evolutionists" is pure rubbish. Evolution is a phenomenon, a force of nature, just like gravity. By your logic, if one is interested in natural processes, one should not fly, because it is against gravity...

      No, it's you who is putting evolution on some kind of pedestal, saying it's something we shouldn't mess with it. Our whole culture and civilization is based on messing with evolution! Or how do you think our current crops and livestock became like they are now?

      There is no grand plan that says that for example these frogs should go extinct if they can't develop resistance to this fungus. Either they don't and fungus kills them, or the do and they might survive. There's no "law" that says humans must not help them to acquire resistance, it's not against any scientific or natural principle.

      Survival of the fittest is not a goal or a moral guideline or a law of nature. It's the intermediate result, and nothing more. Those that survived were the fittest at the time, by definition. And that's it. It's not even the end result, since the end result will be that nothing survives (in a few billion years or whatever).

  2. Nature by _Shorty-dammit · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why not leave nature to its own devices? Survival of the fittest, and all that kinda stuff...

    1. Re:Nature by Dystopian+Rebel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because Nature is "insidious" if it is not commensurate with our financial aspirations.

      --
      Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
    2. Re:Nature by migla · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why not save species from extinction if we can?

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    3. Re:Nature by Dr.+Eggman · · Score: 5, Funny

      It is our nature to interfere with nature, and who are we to interfere with nature? Therefore, in order to be true to our nature (and therefore not interfere with nature) we must surely interfere with nature!

      --
      Demented But Determined.
    4. Re:Nature by macraig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How would biologists stay employed, if not for this?

    5. Re:Nature by physicsphairy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Humans are virtually incapable of making realistic cost-benefit analyses of these type of situations. There is so much genetic material phasing into and out of existence, human beings could not begin to comprehend it all. However, a single species is easy enough to comprehend, and so by being considered at all it gets a fairly disproportionate representation in the grand scheme of earth's ecosystem. (and I guess the 'conservationists' are not so sentimental about fungus as frogs)

      I think it is interesting that their long-term solution is either to attack the fungus (basically performing a total reversal of natural selection through human intervention) or to preserve the frogs and provide the frogs with some kind of immunity. Of course, nature *already has* an paradigm for immunity, the principle mechanism of which is to let all the organisms that lack intrinsic biological defenses to be killed off.

    6. Re:Nature by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Informative

      What would have happened if this disease had happened 1000 years ago? The frogs would have died. In fact, 99.99% of all species that have ever existed are now dead. That's the way the planet works.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:Nature by couchslug · · Score: 2

      "There is so much genetic material phasing into and out of existence, human beings could not begin to comprehend it all. "

      That is why we should collect as much as practical for future examination and exploitation. Save the data for when we have much greater power to use it. Every species lost is potentially useful data.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    8. Re:Nature by psnyder · · Score: 5, Insightful

      we're just postponing the inevitable.

      Which is why we go to the doctor.

      You make it sound like postponing the inevitable is a bad thing. Maybe we'll learn a thing or two from these frogs or about these frogs if we keep them around just a little bit longer.

    9. Re:Nature by Thiez · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > Back to frogs - Extinction is a GOOD thing. It's how nature weeds-out the weak. Let them die, and the few that are left behind will be stronger & better.

      What will be left behind is a fungus and a huge pile of dead frogs. I fail to see how that is a desireable state.

  3. Re:How far we've fallen by ElectricRook · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And now they're begging for money to save frogs.

    It seems to me, that here they are begging money to fight evolution...

    Witness Don Quixote in action.

    --
    - High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
  4. Evolution stymied? by icebike · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is this a good idea?

    Preserving species that are not fit for their environment seems the wrong approach to me. The chance of ever totally eradicating this fungus is nil, and if the most numerous amphibian population around is a re-seeded susceptible population you get to re-play the whole scenario in another 25 or 100 years.

    Even trying to bread a frog with some resistance is at best an artificial solution, and one that historically has never worked on any grand scale.

    Nature is not so fragile that the loss of said frogs will not be offset the the advance of some niche dweller to fill the gap.

    We can't even manage our own affairs. It seems unwise and premature to step in and take over from mother nature.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    1. Re:Evolution stymied? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem is that we could be causing this disease to spread. One reason which has been put forward is that frog researchers who go from country to country are spreading diseases. So saving frogs in this instance may be more a case of fixing the damage we have done.

    2. Re:Evolution stymied? by Sidshow · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, researchers likely have caused the damage, but what people forget is that humans are part of nature.

      If the frogs your researching can't handle the act of you researching them then you have just evolved yourself out of a job. These researchers like the frogs in the wild need to adapt, find new work, or perish along with there beloved research subjects.

    3. Re:Evolution stymied? by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 4, Funny

      Even trying to bread a frog ... is at best an artificial solution, and one that historically has never worked on any grand scale.

      I disagree. I've successfully managed to bread frogs en masse, you just have to have a really large fryer. Delicious and crispy!

      Sorry, couldn't help myself.

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    4. Re:Evolution stymied? by couchslug · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Keeping the frogs available for study may help us learn to exploit them.

      The more creatures we "ranch" the more we have available. Think of it as a "seed bank" of sorts. Instead of killing off species, we can retain and manipulate them.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    5. Re:Evolution stymied? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2, Informative

      > The point is, it is not inhabitable (for humans) without technological interventions.

      Go tell your nonsense to the Eskimo populations.

      Ummm, you do know that clothing, houses, harpoons, fishhooks, sleds, and other things like that are, well, TECHNOLOGY?

      Alas, it's not true that technology is appropriate only to describe the products of the late 20th and early 21st centuries. We've been doing "technology" since one of our ancestors first banged two rocks together to produce an edge to cut through a deer's hide.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  5. Re:How far we've fallen by Edmund+Blackadder · · Score: 4, Informative

    Did you read the article you fucking dimwit? This is not a Peace Corps project, and the only connection to the Peace Corps is that one of the people doing it used to be a Peace Corps volunteer.

    He is allowed to do other things I hope.

    Look, I know, being apparently rather stupid and badly educated, you do not like to read articles; I am sure entire articles with all their long paragraphs and sentences and stuff tire you out and are terrible burden upon you. And I am sure it is much easier and more fun to just vent this pent up hatred you have of volunteer organizations. I mean whats not to hate about volunteer organizations -- they try to help people. The bastards.

    But you see, if you are going to start flaming on slashdot, you should try very hard to read the article (you can do it, just get plenty of sleep beforehand). You have to do it just to cover your ass. Otherwise you get flamed yourself. Asshole.

  6. More like frog domestication by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I know I've been looking forward to free-range fried frog's legs that don't let you down in the hallucination department.

  7. indeed by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Funny

    I believe Love And Rockets covered this: "You cannot go against nature / because when you do / go against nature / it's part of nature too".

    Thus confirming the thesis that all major questions of philosophy have been covered by 80s music.

    1. Re:indeed by dov_0 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Thus confirming the thesis that all major questions of philosophy have been covered by 80s music.

      Philosophy maybe, but that still leaves the ethical questions regarding their 80's hairstyles...

      --
      sudo mount --milk --sugar /cup/tea /mouth /etc/init.d/relax start
  8. Re:sentimental fools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is not natural:
    "Due to its extensive use in obstetrics and research, it appears Xenopus laevis has carried B. dendrobatidis with it out of Africa to all over the world, causing chytridomycosis and eventually death in native frogs naÃve to the fungi."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_clawed_frog
    http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol10no12/03-0804.htm

  9. Re:sentimental fools by maxume · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Probably yes. If only because the Gazelles are likely to taste better to humans than the cheetahs.

    (Providing a nice herd for hunting is one of the primary reasons for wolf control in the somewhat less populated areas of North America...the other is that lots of people want to live by trees and grass, but not by big dangerous animals)

    Really, I don't see the problem with getting sentimental about nature, as long as it doesn't cost a lot. It makes more sense than getting sentimental about Paris Hilton or Britney Spears, and there are plenty of people who do that.

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  10. Re:How far we've fallen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How is saving frogs from evolution improving the world exactly?

  11. Re:How far we've fallen by leromarinvit · · Score: 5, Funny

    But you see, if you are going to start flaming on slashdot, you should try very hard to read the article (you can do it, just get plenty of sleep beforehand). You have to do it just to cover your ass. Otherwise you get flamed yourself. Asshole.

    I think you forgot to add "Also, fuck you."

    --
    Proud member of the Ferengi Socialist Party.
  12. Re:How far we've fallen by narcberry · · Score: 2, Funny

    insidious threats like disease or climate change

    I think you missed the part where they worked in climate change. Surely we must to something!

    --
    Modding me -1 troll doesn't make me wrong.
  13. Re:How long by Aladrin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Foreign aid? What about local welfare programs? We already support tons of people who can't support themselves.

    And before anyone goes crazy about what I just wrote, I realize that some people are just down on their luck and need a little help. I'm talking about those shiftless bums who just take the free handouts and don't bother trying, or could never support themselves even if they -did- try.

    As a side note, I used to spend a lot of time thinking about how society has stopped evolution in humans... But then I realized it didn't stop it, just changed its direction. It worried me a lot less after that. (But still a little, as we don't let it remove genetic disease any more.)

    --
    "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
  14. Make room for all of God's creatures.... by PPH · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...on my plate, next to the mashed potatos.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  15. Well I'm going to build an ark to save chytrid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If we're going to save one species, we must save them all.

  16. Re:How far we've fallen by interkin3tic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It seems to me, that here they are begging money to fight evolution...

    Natural selection, not evolution. And people have always been about preventing natural selection. We call it compassion, it's a pretty common trait. I guess it's more comfortable to look at it cynically for some people though.

  17. Re:How far we've fallen by Thiez · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Aye. And it's not just compassion. Suppose some bacterium mutates and becomes extremely lethal to cows, pigs, chickens, etc., and spreads like crazy, and kills every member of these species on earth. Some loony will shrug and say 'oh, evolution/natural selection, nothing to see here, move along', but it is NOT in our best interests to let these animals go extinct.

    Just because evolution is 'natural' doesn't mean we shouldn't fight it when it is screwing us in some way. Dying of appendicitis is natural selection too, yet very few people suffering from such diseases refuse medical attention...