Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Psion Accuses Intel of Cybersquatting

Posted by kdawson on from the yer-mother-wears-combat-boots dept.

Save the Netbooks writes "We discussed Psion sending C&Ds late last year over international trademarks held on the term 'netbook' and Dell accusing Psion of fraud last week. Since then Intel has joined in by suing Psion in federal court. On Friday Psion counter-sued Intel (court filing, PDF). SaveTheNetbooks.com has an analysis here. Psion has demanded a jury trial, profits, treble damages, destruction of material bearing the mark 'netbook' and the netbook.com domain (among other things), claiming that they are still actively selling netbooks despite also revealing sales figures showing a minuscule market share. It seems that declaring victory may have been a little premature as it will be months before the dispute plays out in court."

29 of 116 comments (clear)

  1. Britney Spears School of Publicity by stewbacca · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hey, if you can't make it with the quality of your product, just make sure you are in the news a lot.

    1. Re:Britney Spears School of Publicity by FlyingSquidStudios · · Score: 5, Informative

      Psion actually did have high-quality handhelds back before they became so commonplace. Unlike a lot of their competitors, they actually included a compiler right on their devices so you could program or modify existing programs. Of course, this is back in the '90s, before even the Newton...

      --
      http://twitter.com/OLDTELEGRAM
    2. Re:Britney Spears School of Publicity by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I actually think Psion might have a case here. They registered the "netBook" trademark years ago, and have been selling "netBook" branded subnotebooks continually over the last decade.

      At this point, I think "Netbook" has become generic, but not through a failure of Psion to protect its trademark. Intel, while not selling a device of its own, improperly appropriated Psion's trademark for its own commercial ends (selling Atom processors to subnotebook manufacturers among others). If Sun decided that "J2EE Server" wasn't going to win any adopters, and decided to call them "Websphere servers", that would be clearly be improper, even though they weren't using to refer specifically to their implementation.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    3. Re:Britney Spears School of Publicity by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think this is an example of how a large corporation can away with almost anything they want.

      Intel's use of "netbook" is just as wrong as if I started selling tissues called "kleenex". It's stealing someone else's name. But right & wrong doesn't matter. What matters is who has the deeper pockets, so Intel will ignore the cease-and-desist letters and just drag this in court until Psion goes bankrupt. It's a lot like what Microsoft did throughout the 90s.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    4. Re:Britney Spears School of Publicity by david.given · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have a Psion Netbook. It's a stunningly nice machine, with a really good keyboard (I mean, really good; it's got full sized keys and is extremely comfortable to type on), a decent touch-sensitive colour screen, PCMCIA, CF and a huge battery life with no moving parts.

      Unfortunately by today's standards it's pretty antiquated. It runs EPOC, which may have been good then but is pretty useless today, and the 32MB of RAM isn't quite good enough to run anything else on (although you can hack Debian onto it, you wouldn't want to do real work with it). Connectivity is lousy: no wireless, no USB, no ethernet, and the only expansion is a single old-fashioned PCMCIA slot. The two or three models of 16-bit wireless cards that EPOC supported are now landfill. The only alternative is to use a PCMCIA USB card --- but PCMCIA (not Cardbus) USB cards are like hen's teeth. It's got infrared which I've never made work and RS232 for which you can't get the cables.

      So I've never actually found anything useful to do with my Netbook yet. If it had wireless it'd be great as a remote terminal. Alas, without it, it sits uselessly at the back of a cupboard...

    5. Re:Britney Spears School of Publicity by kimvette · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They may have registered "netBook" years ago but the only "netBook" product they list is in their discontinued product page. One of the requirements for maintaining a trademark is to actively use it.

      Their focus seems to be vehicle-mounted computers, appropriate for police and delivery vehicles, and their handheld units are appropriate for managing stores (inventory control) and delivery personnel, not the target market for netbooks.

      They abandoned it, and let it fall into common use, becoming a genericized trademark. I would buy a "netbook" like an Aspire One or eee PC, but I would not buy a "NETBOOK PRO" from Psion even if it were to be brought back into production.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    6. Re:Britney Spears School of Publicity by el_$corpio · · Score: 3, Informative

      I also have a Psion Netbook and have been using mine every day for years. What it lacks in connectivity it makes up for in speed, battery life and applications that do what they should and carry no bloat. The Agenda is still the best calendar app I've used. For example, you can create an entry and then add a (Psion) Word document containing information about the entry, including images, etc.

      It turns on instantly. That alone puts it above any of the subnotebooks that are currently calling themselves netbooks. You can pop the CF cards in and out without causing the OS any confusion. You can even get a Windows like front end.

      Wireless network cards can be got from eBay without too much difficulty (I've got a couple). You normally get an RS232 cable with the Netbook but it's easier to copy all of the files on the C: drive to a CF card and then copy the CF card to a PC.

      Oh, and infrared works fine here - can use it to connect to the internet through my mobile phone and send and receive files.

      And the Psion 5 (or 5MX) is completely compatible with these, so you can carry all of this around in your pocket if you don't want to lug around the Netbook.

      Stunning machine at the time, still brilliant now (if you accept it's limitations) and a name well worth defending IMHO.

    7. Re:Britney Spears School of Publicity by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If Psion had trademarked the name, and they were still using it (apparently they WERE still selling netbooks, even if only a few), then they probably have rights to the name. It doesn't matter than Intel is a much larger company. If Psion had a trademark on the name, and Intel did not check to see if the name was already trademarked, then they DID steal the name.

      Whether Psion's product "caught on" in the market is irrelevant, as long as they were still selling them. You can't exactly let Intel void their trademark just because Intel is a bigger company! That's why we have trademarks in the first place.

    8. Re:Britney Spears School of Publicity by 2short · · Score: 2, Interesting


      Legally, you are probably right. But in judging Intel ethically, it matters to me whether they started saying "netbook" with the intention of stealing the name and trading on the reputation of Psions product. They clearly did not.

      The real clincher (in the court of my opinion) would be whether it was even Intel that started calling them that. This is not clear to me. Certainly I first became aware of "netbook" as a generic descriptor of the class of machines, with no particular tie to Intel.

      It's a good name fro a class of machines that needs one, and it seems considerably too late to put the genie back in the bottle.

    9. Re:Britney Spears School of Publicity by hattig · · Score: 2, Informative

      When the entire article is about how they didn't abandon it, and indeed sold large numbers through 2006 and still sell remaining stock and supplies, how can you claim that they abandoned it?

    10. Re:Britney Spears School of Publicity by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Informative

      >>>But Intel didn't steal their name.... and "netbook" is kind of catchy.

      That's fine. They mistakenly used a trademarked name. No problem. HOWEVER now that they've been informed that the name is trademarked, via a cease-and-desist letter, they are obligated to stop. Since Intel is refusing to stop, they are in violation of the law, and can be sued for damages.

      >>>Psion made a product that didn't catch on; that doesn't get them the right to keep the name for all eternity

      Not eternity, no, but they can continue trademarking the name for several decades, so long as they continue paying the appropriate license fees to the U.S. government. Take the name "Oldsmobile". Even though that car no longer exists, General Motors still holds the right to the name for many years to come. Intel can't just along and setup an oldsmobile.com website, and then try to claim that GM no longer holds the rights. It doesn't work that way.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    11. Re:Britney Spears School of Publicity by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Informative

      >>>One of the requirements for maintaining a trademark is to actively use it.

      Bzzz. One of the requirements is to actively ENFORCE it, by protecting it from infringement. That is what Psion did when they sent out cease-and-desist to Intel. Intel is obligated to acknowledge the letter and comply with its demands, otherwise Intel is violating trademark law.

      Intel could have easily said, "Ooops sorry," and that would have been the end. But instead it's clear Intel intends to steal somebody's else's trademark through force (an army of lawyers).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    12. Re:Britney Spears School of Publicity by Klintus+Fang · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is true. Intel and the other companies currently using the term netbook to define this class of devices could have said "Ooops sorry" and that would have been the end of it.

      If Psion had made their move to protect the trademark back when the Intel first started encouraging the use of this term in the media then that surely is what would have happened. But psion, in their own statements, said they waited until the latter quarters of 2008 after it was clear to them that the use of the term netbook for this general class of devices was spreading across the industry.

      That I think is a key distinction. They waited. I'm not a lawyer of course, but it seems relevant to me.

      Of course if Psion had sent out the CDC orders sooner, before the term caught on in the media and in the marketting departments of Intel, Dell, and others, then they would have nothing to gain. Psion had already discontinued their netbook line and would have gained nothing if they stopped the industry from using the term before it caught on.

      Now look at the position Psion is in. If they succeed, they will now have exclusive rights to a trademark which has value because of the dollars spend by the big players in the industry to push the term as the definition of a general class of device.

      It's unfortunate that these companies ended up using a term that was also a trademark for a discontinued psion product line. But it seems highly disengenuous that psion waited until after multiple companies had spent large amounts of marketing cash pushing the term to send their CDC orders. Seems like they waited for these other companies to breath life into the dead trademark before choosing to exercise their claim to that trademark.

      --
      In a minute there is time For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. -T.S. Eliot
    13. Re:Britney Spears School of Publicity by 2short · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "This is the law."

      No, this is slashdot. As I have tried to make clear, I am more interested in whether I personally think Intel are being evil bad guys here than in the details of the law involved. Call me arrogant if you like, but the law does not determine my opinion.

    14. Re:Britney Spears School of Publicity by commodore64_love · · Score: 2

      >>>the law does not determine my opinion.

      Which is why you would make a lousy judge. You'd probably demand I give-away my $300,000 savings to help my neighbor pay his mortgage because "in my opinion it's the ethical thing to do". Fortunately we run this country by law (a Republic) not your "personal feelings". My money is my property. Same with Psion:

      Psion has property rights to the name "Netbook". Psion told Intel to stop using the name. Intel arrogantly ignored the letter and continued using the name, therefore Intel is the wrongdoer. There is no other way to interpret the law for those of us who use our brains. The name belongs to Psion not Intel.

      The end.

      (pounds the gavel)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  2. The term 'netbook'... by Nursie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I thought it originated (in its current incarnation, not the Psion one) in the tech press and tech community, not as a marketing term from Intel or Dell.

    Also, are Asus not involved and if not, why not? They kicked this thing off.

    1. Re:The term 'netbook'... by Hozza · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've seen several references in the press that it was Intel that re-invented the netbook term to go with the Atom marchitecture, other manufacturers and the press have just followed their lead.

      I have to say I'm with Psion on this one, their competitors have released a near-identical product and used their brand name, of course they're pissed. Legally speaking the size of their market share has zero relevance.

  3. Re:Yep. by WegianWarrior · · Score: 2, Informative

    They did register it in the US, way back in '96; see http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=75215401 for details. Off course, that won't stop a couple of other companies trying to take the trademark away from Psion... Psion also have an interesting statement at http://www.psionteklogix.com/documents/com/specSheets/Psion_Netbook%20_Trademark_%20Statement.pdf

    --
    Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
  4. Echoing Ars Technica... by ghostis · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Looks like netbooks may need a new name, for now... I recently did a whois search across all the prefixes and suffixes I could think of for small laptops (mobile-,mini-, -top, -book, etc.: net,com,org) All the .coms, .nets, and most .orgs were taken. Would one of you who has a short catchy one of these domains step forward to offer the name to the community?

    -Ghostis

    --


    Computer Science is all about trying to find the right wrench to bang in the right screw. -T.Cumbo?
    1. Re:Echoing Ars Technica... by samj · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Psion have essentially given an amnesty to bloggers and journalists using the term "netbook" (which may prove reason enough in itself to take the trademark off them since any licensing must include quality assurance). That includes blogs with advertising as explained here:

      "where a blogger uses context sensitive advertising that is completely outside of its control (so it has no knowledge at all whether a 'Netbook' related advert will be placed in its blog site), then we're taking the view that we need to focus on working on persuading the featured retailer to adopt a term other than 'netbook'."

      This is why we believe the amnesty doesn't go far enough.

  5. Re:Just call it something else. by PIBM · · Score: 5, Informative

    They are not there to sue
    From Psion themselves:

    Is Psion looking for financial compensation?

    Although taking someoneâ(TM)s trademark is a serious matter, we have simply asked retailers and
    manufacturers to transition to a different descriptive term over a 3 month term. We have not
    sought compensation at all from any party contacted. We have no intention of selling the
    âNetbookâ(TM) trademark registrations either, valuable as they may be, or of licensing them on a
    for-profit basis. We simply wish to continue use of our âNetbookâ(TM) trademark, and to be free to
    use it on our future products.

  6. If the sales figures are true ... by hattig · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Assuming around 15,000,000 netbooks were sold in 2008 at a conservative $200 per unit (and that our calculations are correct) Psion had a "netbook" market share of two thousandths of one percent in 2008 - rather low for a company claiming to hold a monopoly over the mark."

    and absolutely irrelevant, especially as the sales in 2005 and 2006 show massive amounts of sales, and as they were the sole player in that market then, a 100% share. Within the past 5 years. And Intel's abuse of the trademark led to the Psion share of the netbook marking shrinking.

    Psion have this one all wrapped up.

  7. Industry should cave - and capitalize on it. by dschuetz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think the industry should all stop using the Netbook name, immediately. And then take out multiple advertisements to "clear up the confusion," pointing out how much better their fully-functional micro-laptops are.

    Tag line: "Why buy a Netbook(TM) when you can have a Dell?" (with proper attribution for Netbook, naturally).

  8. Really,Yep. by tjstork · · Score: 2, Informative

    Looks to me like they are entitled to the trademark. They registered it, they used it. Intel's actions in this regard seem like they are trying to hijack a term.

    --
    This is my sig.
  9. Anybody else think it's funny.. by topham · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Since Netbook has NO MEANING anyway?

    Psion will lose because they aren't an American company. Not because they don't have a case.

  10. netbook.com by jackspenn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The fact that Psion themselves didn't register the netbook.com domain name and instead Intel did years later, suggests Psion itself didn't take the term netbook seriously until others gave it value.

    --
    Respect the Constitution
  11. Bonsai Laptop by jolyonr · · Score: 2, Funny

    Keep trimming off the peripherals, CPU, etc, and it will remain small.

    --


    Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
  12. Small == wrong? by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    claiming that they are still actively selling netbooks despite also revealing sales figures showing a minuscule market share.

    So, what the submitter is saying is that because Psion has a small player with "minuscule market share", the big guys should be able to ignore Psion's trademarks.

    More hypocrisy from the /. crowd.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  13. Re:Just call it something else. by hattig · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Psion came up with the term.
    Psion got the trademark.
    Psion made good sales up until 2007 - note this is well within the five year trademark term before it's not in use.
    Psion indeed still sell remaining stock.
    Intel started using the term 'netbook' in 2008 to describe the systems they were pushing that were in the exact same format as the Psion Netbook and Netbook Pro.
    Psion only wanted the websites, bloggers and companies to stop using the term 'netbook' for non Psion products.
    Intel's now gone too far, and Psion have had to file suit.
    For other entities, they have respected the trademarks - Google has put the term on the banned list for advertisements, for example.