Slashdot Mirror


Red Hat Hit With Patent Suit Over JBoss

An anonymous reader writes "A small software company is claiming that Red Hat's JBoss open source middleware violates one of its patents and is asking a court to stop Red Hat from distributing the product. Software Tree LLC claims that JBoss infringes on its database patent for 'exchanging data and commands between an object oriented system and a relational system.' Software Tree's partners include Microsoft, and that the suit was filed in Eastern Texas, which is known as a plaintiff's paradise for patent actions."

33 of 201 comments (clear)

  1. Civil Procedure Question by GPLDAN · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If the company you are suing is incorporated in one state, and you, the plaintiff, is in another - can you sue in a third state that has no party resident within it, just because it's a "paradise", full of hang-em-high judges?

    IANAL, as you may suspect.

    1. Re:Civil Procedure Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      They can, because RedHat is selling/offering their software in that state.

    2. Re:Civil Procedure Question by deathy_epl+ccs · · Score: 4, Funny

      They can, because RedHat is selling/offering their software in that state.

      Note to self: When I start selling my software, refuse to sell it in Texas.

  2. Untied States Patent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Untied States Patent #078957284370958240976548037689725, Method and Apparatus for Initiating a Loud Communication Between a Liberal and a Conservative:
     
    The Liberal says, "The government should pay for it!" The Conservative says, "Throw grandma down the stairs and out into the street!" A loud communication thus begins between the two.

    I am going to sue every liberal and conservative in the country and seek an injunction to prevent them from talking to each other unless they pay me royalties.

  3. LOL marketing speak by Ninnle+Labs,+LLC · · Score: 5, Funny

    According to its Web site, Software Tree specializes in "providing superior software infrastructure that shifts the application/database integration paradigm."

    Well if nothing else they've definitely got the marketing speak down.

    1. Re:LOL marketing speak by von_rick · · Score: 5, Funny

      Its got what market craves. Its got electrolytes.

      --

      Face your daemons!

    2. Re:LOL marketing speak by Fozzyuw · · Score: 4, Informative

      Really? I was thinking it was from Idiocracy. Though, they were both written and directed by Mike Judge, I don't recall "electrolytes" being used in that film.

      In Idiocracy, the future is dumb and they replaced all forms of water (except the toilet) with Gateraid(tm) like product and frequently promote it as better because it has "electrolytes". Including watering plants with it. Which happens to be destroying the crop population and no one can figure out why... except Luke Wilson, smartest man in the world. =P

      Happily bought this film for $6 for my show of support. =)

      --
      "The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth." ~1984 George Orwell
    3. Re:LOL marketing speak by retchdog · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, the narration explains that he wasn't smart enough (or, more accurately, educated enough) to figure out/know why. He just had a different tradition, one from an average ~105 IQ society instead of the miserable future.

      Rather amusingly, Idiocracy is itself a dumbed-down and toned-down adaptation of the short story "The Marching Morons" (1951): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons, which I recommend reading.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
  4. Fishy by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the Fscking Patent:

    One problem existing in the art is that there are no systems and methods to bridge the gap between the programming paradigm used for object-oriented systems and the programming paradigm used for relational systems.

    O RLY? They honestly want us to believe that they invented O/R mapping? Then what is this ACM paper from 1996?

    Object-relational mapping by Scott Amber

    Either somebody didn't do their homework and their patent is going to fall under a weight of prior art, or they're just plain patent trolls. Given that they waited until 2009 (9 years after the patent was issued!), I'm leaning toward the latter.

    1. Re:Fishy by smallfries · · Score: 4, Informative

      ObjectStore came out in 1988. The version that we used back in 1998 definitely performed this mapping for C++ code. I don't know if it counts as prior art because I can't remember how it handled the schemata for the mapping.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    2. Re:Fishy by ckaminski · · Score: 5, Informative

      Disclaimer: I worked for ObjectStore for a while and for Progress (owner of ObjectStore) today.

      ObjectStore is NOT ORM. It is an OODBMS. Probably not quite what you want for prior art.

  5. Yay for selective quoting! by Slothrup · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Software Tree's partners include Microsoft, IBM, Borland, and Sun"

    Fixed that for you.

    --
    The difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
    1. Re:Yay for selective quoting! by duplicate-nickname · · Score: 4, Informative

      Good catch. On top of that, as long as a company meets a few small requirements for developing on a Windows platform, they can become a Microsoft partner. It is not some secret club that goes around suing OSS companies on behalf of Microsoft.

      --

      ÕÕ

    2. Re:Yay for selective quoting! by INeededALogin · · Score: 4, Funny

      Not sure what you are trying to say. Nobody here has an anti-Microsoft agenda.

    3. Re:Yay for selective quoting! by benjymouse · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Only their website doesn't even mention Microsoft as a partner. IBM, Borland, Sun and Oracle are mentioned as partners, though, with contact details.

      What was the intention of mentioning Microsoft and leaving out those partners? Is Microsoft a business partner at all?

      I hate software patents. But summaries like this blatantly trying to skew facts to weasel in hints of a grand Microsoft conspiracy does the fight against software patents disservice.

      What a crook. Bad! I had to look twice because I fully expected this to be a "kdawson". Not this time, though.

      --
      Reading slashdot one-liner: (irm http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot).rdf.item | fl title,desc*
    4. Re:Yay for selective quoting! by Ninnle+Labs,+LLC · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What a crook. Bad! I had to look twice because I fully expected this to be a "kdawson". Not this time, though.

      I'd put money down that the "anonymous reader" that wrote the summary was actually kdawson.

    5. Re:Yay for selective quoting! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Informative

      What was the intention of mentioning Microsoft and leaving out those partners? Is Microsoft a business partner at all?

      It's on the company info page:

      "Software Tree is an ISV partner with Microsoft."

      Of course, all you have to do to get that status is to write software that works on Windows, and most shops that develop Windows software and sell it are registered MS ISV partners.

      Of course, the guys are also:

      "Software Tree is an IBM Solution Developer Program partner."

      "Software Tree is a technology partner with Borland."

  6. East Texas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    East Texas is a hell hole.

  7. Patent mentioned in article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    6,163,776

    Link to US PTO United States Patent: 6,163,776

  8. Wasn't Bilski supposed to have stopped these??? by BUL2294 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm no lawyer but wasn't the Bilski decision supposed to put an end to these software patent lawsuits & (essentially) invalidate software patents? Software patents don't deal with "machines" or "transformations", so I'm confused as to how these continue... Or is the Bilski case waiting to have their day in front of the US Supreme Court and such cases will continue until a ruling comes down from SCOTUS...

    --
    Windows 3.1x calc: 3.11 - 3.10 = 0.00
    1. Re:Wasn't Bilski supposed to have stopped these??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, that was simply the fevered hope of many open source criminals who seek to profit off the hard work and innovation of others.

    2. Re:Wasn't Bilski supposed to have stopped these??? by uncreativeslashnick · · Score: 3, Informative

      Biliski was about the patent office rejecting a patent appliation, not an invalidation of any existing patent. As such, Biliski stands for the proposition that the Patent Office can reject certain types of patents that are like the one considered in Biliski. Apparently the patent in question in TFA was filed and granted long before Biliski came out, so Biliski has no practical effect on that patent directly.

      Indirectly, one might argue that the patent should be invalid because of its nature, i.e. it never should have been granted. But that has to be done on a case-by-case basis for patents already granted.



      So the short answer is, no.

    3. Re:Wasn't Bilski supposed to have stopped these??? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it's closed source DMCA protected software. There's no way law abiding programmers could see the source code and most of the key developers in these cases have too little time to reverse engineer other people's products.

      In short a person "skilled in the art" saw some trade magazine article about a products general function and recreated it without looking... that's pretty much the definition of "general knowledge" as applied to patents.

  9. Prior art? BO vs. Cognos by H0p313ss · · Score: 4, Informative

    "exchanging data and commands between an object oriented system and a relational system."

    This sounds familiar... hmmm.... ah.

    Business Objects' United States patent number 5,555,403 entitled "Relational Database Access System Using Semantically Dynamic Objects."

    Fight fire with fire...

    --
    XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    1. Re:Prior art? BO vs. Cognos by H0p313ss · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Furthermore... they seem to be trying to patent what TopLink was already doing prior to 1996.

      For those who care, TopLink has now been opensourced as EclipseLink

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
  10. No ORM? In 1998? Yeah, right. by Bazzargh · · Score: 3, Informative

    In the patent application (dated 1998) they stated:
    One problem existing in the art is that there are no systems and methods to bridge the gap between the programming paradigm used for object-oriented systems and the programming paradigm used for relational systems.

    (from here on in you know there's going to be no prior art submitted that does exactly that, when in fact there was plenty.)

    Liar liar pants on fire.

  11. NeXTStep Dbase, Enterprise Object Frameworks by tyrione · · Score: 3, Interesting

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_Objects_Framework

    NeXT, now Apple has patents on this stuff predating this with DBKit.

  12. Crack down on forum shopping by davidwr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That court, and all federal courts, should start rejecting all suits from or against companies where neither party's main presence is in this court's jurisdiction.

    Unless one of the party's principal business is in the Eastern District, the court should say "have you tried the courts where you and the defendant are principally located first?" and accept only cases where

    1) those courts rejected the case for whatever reason and
    2) the case would not be rejected if the companies were located in the Eastern District of Texas.

    This would allow limited forum shopping in cases where "local" courts dismissed the case out of hand, but would not allow shopping just to get a more favorable jury or judge.

    In the alternative, simply dismiss all cases that aren't the principle address of either party. However, that might take an act of Congress.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Crack down on forum shopping by Bobb9000 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      While it doesn't go that far, there's a bill just introduced in Congress that would make forum shopping like this more difficult. The Patent Reform Act of 2009 would mean, in part:

      Patent Litigation Venue: "A party shall not manufacture venue by assignment, incorporation, or otherwise to invoke the venue of a specific district court." Venue is only proper were (a) defendant is incorporated; (b) defendant has its principle place of business; (c) where the defendant is permanently located and has committed substantial acts of infringement; or (d) where the plaintiff resides if the plaintiff is a nonprofit or individual inventor. The court should transfer venue to avoid evidentiary burdens when transfer can be accomplished without causing undue hardship to the plaintiff."

      (From Patently-O)

      --
      Bobb9000 - raised by the wolves,
      Oxford education as phrased by the wolves.
    2. Re:Crack down on forum shopping by domatic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not sure that would help. All of the patent trolls would simply re-incorporate in East Texas.

  13. Why doesn't this threaten everyone? by ggraham412 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've been writing custom data access layers since 2001, and they all have components that vaguely resemble this: http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/week15/OG/html/1329-2/US06163776-20080408.html. There needs to be a test that goes beyond "prior art" for software patents. Namely, if a software solution is obvious given the problem and the tools, then it should not be patentable. Otherwise, patent law does not advance the common good, it merely makes programming more expensive/less productive.

  14. A Trend, TomTom, RedHat Guitiarez by omb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There is a distinct sense of __non__coincedence__ in the air, the stink of M$ and rotten US corporatism and lack of effective regulation and enforcement of honest transparent business practices.

    In spite of what Rob Endele has said this is enemy action, "Once is coincedence ..."

    The US legal system, as I have said before, needs to brace up and get its act together on vexatious corporate litigation and to adopt the 'Costs in cause' rule so small defendants with a strong case will always defend. I look to senior academic lawyers, and the appelate benches of the Federal Appeal Circuit and the Supreme Court, which does not require legislation or a specific case but can be delt with by practice direction, to take a lead on this.

    Those responsible for business competitiveness, especially in the EU need to do more. At minimum re-opening the M$ anti-trust investigations which I hope TomTom press for, from the Netherands. The State Attorneys and US Justice Department should also re-open the Anti-Trust suit compliance issue, especially after the discovered and proven complicity of M$ in the meritless SCO litigation.

    The EU should also raise this as a WTO issue. Indeed the rational reaction is to say to US "We will hold all enforcement and co-operation on IP issues until you have reformed your broken Patent and Copyright systems" and stand firmly against term extension as the rest of the world needs the innovation effect of time limited IP rights. We should no-longer tolerate the East Texas fiasco and put as much back pressure on the US to end this legal corruption, which is, by no-means, too strong a description.

    This can be effected by amicus-curia briefs by Commerce and Justice and by making it clear to these judges that all their decisions will be appealed until they resign or retire. They have done enough damage.

    And no, after the Economic Crisis largely created by US corporate malfeasance, greed and lack of transperency the rest of the world needs to say 'enough' loudly, and refuse to toady or further pander to the economic nonsense, from the lunatic right, in Washington, which has done so much to damage the world economy.

  15. Re:TopLink by Ninnle+Labs,+LLC · · Score: 5, Informative
    Actually this same company already filed suit against Oracle claiming that TopLink violated their patents. http://www.setexasrecord.com/news/210664-recent-patentcopyright-infringement-cases-filed-in-u.s.-district-courts

    Software Tree claims that Oracle has infringed the '776 Patent through products including the Oracle TopLink.

    "Defendant has actual knowledge of the '776 Patent, and actual knowledge that the Oracle product known as Oracle TopLink product, and all other Oracle products that include TopLink, infringe the '776 Patent," the original complaint states.