Slashdot Mirror
Australian Police Given Covert Search and Hacking Powers
An anonymous reader writes "The NSW government of Australia has quietly introduced new police powers for covert home searches and covert hacking of computers. The suspect may not be notified of the covert activity for up to three years. These new powers are similar to those given to the UK police earlier this year. The new warrants can only be issued in the Supreme Court for suspected serious offences punishable by at least seven years jail — which includes computer crime offences."
I KILL YOU
Like putting a single eyelash on the door to see if it's been opened. But the better trick is the ol' bucket of water on top.
What?
As a first step, the cops should target one of their own for secret investigation. Will they do it?
How would Peter Costello or Nathan Rees react if they were targeted for such an investigation?
Why don't the politicians confiscate the super annuation of corrupt politicians?
What prevents them passing such a law?
And last of all, why are politicians around the world so intent on destroying the last shred of privacy of the Common man under the guise of terrorism?
First USA (thanks Bush), UK, Australia, Germany and lastly even Canada.
Why?
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
Oh wait, I forgot.
These new powers have been put in place to allow the police to intercept message-carrying kangaroos, a long time lifeblood of the criminal underworld. In response, crime syndicates have begun equiping their kangaroos with laser beams.
..for about three years.
I usually get upset when I hear about new powers being granted to the U.S, U.K, and Australia. However, all of those involve searches that violate the 4th amendment (U.S) and our privacy and do not have the checks and balances provided for by the judicial courts.
They seem to be asking for warrants, and at a high level. That does not seem so bad, and in fact is all that I am really asking for. Checks and balances.
This is a positive step AFAIK.
Australia will so misuse this.
/. readers want to understand what was done in my state:
Any computer internet use will be a "computer crime".
Also recall the total force wide corruption. In Australia it *was* not who is corrupt, the only question *was* anyone not corrupt.
If
Political surveillance and the South Australian Police
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/lcj/wayward/ch7t.html
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
This is a state law, not a federal one. The headline is misleading in that it contains the words "government of Australia" in that order. It still sucks, but it's not a national law.
besides what do you expect them to do, walk up to your front door with a mega phone and annouce "PREPARE TO BE COVERTLY SEARCHED!!!!"?
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
When will people finally realize that they are not as free as they believe they are?
The powers given to police will only increase as they government attempts to gain an increase of control over the population.
No one will stop them and no one can stop them. Roll with it and just enjoy life as much as you can. If you don't want to contribute actively and selflessly to your community then you deserve to loose your privacy.
Some may say that this attitude is what fuels the fire; however, I would vigorously argue the opposite.
It won't take long to whittle away that seven year requirement.
As has already been pointed out, it's under the same type of arrangements as other Australian agencies are subject to: Court ordered warrants. Not just any court, but the Supreme Court of NSW.
When applying for a warrant, the police must provide convincing reasons to the judge, and the contents of these warrants come out in court if a prosecution results. Somehow I don't think "he looks funny" is going to cut it.
I think this is a reasonable use of police powers, with suitable checks and balances in place
Does possession of child porn carry a seven year sentence in Australia? If you have a computer, and an internet connection, you just might be downloading kiddie porn, so.... I guess they've covered pretty much anyone they want.
I wonder what kind of "hacking" this will entail, and if they took computers with decent security into account. Owning a typical default-user-is-root-and-runs-MSIE Windows box is not very difficult, but I would like them to see them try that on a well secured Linux or BSD box with a competent administrator. Without root access, the police aren't going to get very far.
"It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
"...suspected serious offences punishable by at least seven years jail â€" which includes computer crime offences."
So, they want to catch computer criminals by using the same tricks that they use?
Do the government seriously think that hackers are going to have an insecure network?
The closest they'll get to catching hackers is catching a whole bunch of script kiddies, who could be caught without needing to hack their computers.
And when court-sanctioned hacking becomes common, organized crime groups will employ hackers to secure their networks to counter the threat.
It's only going to be a short-term fix. After that, hackers will become the new guards for organizations ranging from illegal to corporations where they don't want the police snooping around without due cause.
Funny how this legislation could generate legitimate income for criminals.
And I'll leave the other members to bring up the ethical and legal issues around it.
Our culture doesn't get smarter, it just finds new ways of being retarded.
that has to be some of the worst advice ever given. I can't even begin to list the number of problems and false assumptions in your post.
to have Kangaroo Courts for real?
What?
Everyone's a tough guy on the Internet. Why don't you try killing the next person who comes into your home uninvited and see where you end up.
Why don't you try killing the police when they come into your home uninvited but with a warrant granting them the ability to do so. See where you end up.
I can tell you in both cases you'll have a hard time not winding up locked in with the sodomites.
I drink to make other people interesting!
I don't know how Australian law approaches this, but in the US, you'd be guilty of reckless endangerment, and anyone, even a criminal who breaks into your house, who is injured by your traps can sue you for damages in civil court. He would, of course, have to show intention on your part (i.e., if you make the trap look unintentional enough, you might be OK, as long as no one who knows you testifies that you kept the situation dangerous for long periods of time).
A quick search leads me to "the law in England and Wales, .... There 'Offences Against The Person Act 1861 s 31' makes it an offense to set up a mechanical contrivance calculated to destroy human life or cause grievous bodily harm."
I think a better "trap" would be to have your computers automatically erase all the encryption keys in memory and shut down, the minute any intrusion is detected. Unfortunately, this won't help you against the police planting hardware keyloggers and other unpleasant stuff.
Australia will so misuse this. Any computer internet use will be a "computer crime". Also recall the total force wide corruption. In Australia it *was* not who is corrupt, the only question *was* anyone not corrupt.
Just picking on your popular hyperbole at random, not you in particular. The corruption in SA you point to was exposed 10yrs ago. In the 80's there was exposure of corruption amoung high ranks in NSW, in the 90's QLD, last couple of years in Vic.
How does exposure of corruption equate to "total force wide corruption"? Doesn't the exposure itself indicate that "good cops" are doing their job? Or are you asserting the "total force wide corruption" was behind these exposures and it was really the "good cops" who were thrown out? What if no corruption was ever exposed, does that mean there is none? - or does it indicate they are really good crooks?
In otherwords for anyone who subscibes to that kind of hyperbole, there is no way for the cops to win. Not to mention the courts would also have to be "totally corrupt" under this (state) law and would not be interested in issuing warrants that might expose high ranking corruption as they have done in the past (see your own link).
Disclaimer: I have a couple of relatives/friends in the Vic police, some have served more that 20yrs. Personally I will start worrying when corruption is NOT being found.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Question 1 Please demonstrate the correct police procedure for gathering evidence from the rogue website "www.nastyTerrorPaedophiles.org".
Your answer
freedom4all:~$ nmap -A -T4 www.nastyTerrorPaedophiles.org
.
.
.
.
.
Interesting ports on www.nastyTerrorPaedophiles.org:
Not shown: 1688 closed ports
PORT STATE SERVICE VERSION
22/tcp open ssh (protocol 2.0)
freedom4all:~$ ssh root@www.nastyTerrorPaedophiles.org
root@www.nastyTerrorPaedophiles.org's password:[britneyspears]
Permission denied, please try again.
root@www's password: [poshspice]
Permission denied, please try again.
root@www's password: [thepiratebay]
Last login: Mon Mar 2 22:58:01 2009 from disarray.nastyTerrorPaedophiles.org
root@www:~$ ls -l
total 13
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2009-02-27 09:01 My_Terror_Plans
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2009-02-27 09:05 My_Child_Porn_Movies
drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 4096 2009-02-27 09:09 My_BitTorrent_Files
This message was scanned by European governments and contains no terrorism.
when you are the target of an investigation. When you suspect you are being monitored,
Make absolutely sure you don't break the law.
If you want to try to keep your personal computer secure use a netbook or a palmtop and keep it with you 100% of the time. Run something non-standard and OSS so you can track changes.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
I don't know how Australian law approaches this
A quick google found this page. Unfortunately I can't see an obvious way to cut and paste from it so you will have to follow the link.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Can they not change the (DNS) servers from which your Linux / BSD downloads updates, such that those updates contain a back-door?
Or are all updates signed? (certificates, etc)
It would be a mistake to assume that the police (even NSW police) are unable to find somebody to do this. They can always go to a university and get advice from Comp Sci professors, etc. This happens a lot in technical cases.
Having to be root won't stop them if they can get at the hardware, any more than it would stop me.
For an attempt at security buy a palmtop or netbook. Install netbsd and use the cryptographic disk driver on all volumes. If you have material on there which can put you away hide it with Steganography. Make sure there is plenty of innocent stuff on the CGD volumes.
Use secure channels for transmission of sensitive material but remember that increasing your cell beyond three people pretty much ensures that you will be working side to side with a spy.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
"Attention! This is the thought Police.
Come out with your keyboard clearly unplugged and above your head. Don't try anything with that mouse either or it's probable cause for you.
Do not attempt to delete those mp3s as we will be sharing those ALLLLL around once we get those drives back to the lab and imaged off.
We've been tracking you're collection for months, don't turn this into wasted time or it's off to the pen where their idea of Internet access is deciding on which rope climb you'll be scaling today."
He orders a beer. Bartender brings it over, "That'll be ten dollars... Hey, you know we never got any talking kangaroos in here before." Kangaroo replies, "And at these prices you won't see any more of 'em."
What?
It's all very well to say that it is because the voting public let them get away with it, but the voting public are not given a vote on the legislation. All they can do is vote for a representative - who then usually proceeds to represent the interests of business rather than the voter.
Voting only gets you what you want if there is a candidate who will carry out your wishes.
kangaroo steak is yummy
(loading gun)
here skippy here skippy .....
Even having physical access doesn't mean they have access to the system *if the system is secured against such access*. Remember, a tiny trembler switch inside the case and a small explosive device using it as a trigger and any advantage gained from physical access is moot. Trouble is you would probably get labelled as a terrormarist and dissappea
.
.
* CARRIER SIGNAL LOST
Just wait - the other states and the Feds will all move to harmonise their laws with NSW.
Most Australian state police forces have *people* who where classical trained on staff 24/7.
Unix/Linux* or BSD box would be no problem for men and woman who passed CS from good Australian universities in the 1970's-80's.
If the Australia federal gov thought it was wise to track its cash flow in real time, why not track the 'interweb' usage too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Transaction_Reports_and_Analysis_Centre
So yes most states do have the smart people to run small scale tracking on the web 24/7 as needed.
And they know their Linux or BSD real good.
* "When you go to the bookstore and look in the UNIX section, there's books on 'How to Program UNIX'
but when you go to the Linux section and look for 'How to Program Linux' you're not gonna find it, because it doesn't exist."- Darl McBride
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
A society permitted to own guns are called citizens.
A society not permitted to defend against their government are subjects.
I think you know where I'm going with this...
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Just checking in from hell. Seig Heil Australian komrads. It's taken 70-y for you to get-the-picture. But, Unkil Joe and I are well pleased at the progress. Between simpering Oxbridge faggots and snarky yoobs you're well on the way to a modern lifestyle. Your palsy //AH.
Why don't intelligent libertarians get modded up these days?
Yeah, go ahead mods. Gimme all you got.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
Many sites (The Pirate Bay being a high-profile example) get by because their actions and services are not illegal in the country in which they operate. However, since the internet connects everyone, if those actions or services are illegal in anyone's country they can still use them because they can connect to the foreign country with no problem.
Great, so everyone knew that already. The question is, can this same tactic be used by law enforcement and government? What I mean is, even if the FBI hacking your computer is illegal in the U.S., could they go to a friendly government where hacking isn't illegal, get them to do it, and then give the information back to the FBI through some friendly diplomatic process?
I would appreciate it if a lawyer chimed in here, but would that evidence be admissible in any court? Even if it isn't, the tactic could still open up a number of doors. For example, it's probably easier to get a treaty saying international evidence is permissible than it is to convince your population to let you spy on them. Furthermore, internationally obtained evidence might make it easier to get a warrant. Also consider that it would be evidence about something happening in the U.S., so even if it is obtained in another country it must count for something here. Finally, even if the law can't legally use it, the journalists probably can. Any other ideas?
So the same bit of legal reasoning that lets people in the U.S. use The Pirate Bay, "it's not illegal over there" might come back and bite us in the ass.
The eyelash is a distraction, the real trick is to put a pencil lead on the door hinges to see if the door has been opened. if the eyelash on the door is on the floor, you don't need to worry, it was your mom cleaning your bedroom.
But if the eyelash is still in place, and the pencil lead was broken, it's the IPOL who searched your room.
Now if you excuse me, I have to buy some apples for my shinigami friend.
- Yagami Light.
Man, I just finished watching a movie called The Lives of Others, about the Stasi in East Berlin before the wall fell. They had these same powers, they could search/bug peoples homes on mere suspicion alone.
If the supposedly "democratic" and "free" societies are heading in this direction I wonder how the world will ever recover from it.
Slashdot: "The NSW government of Australia has quietly introduced new police powers..."
TFA: "The Government says new legislation, to be introduced into Parliament today...
"Introduced into Parliament" doesn't mean "Introduced into law". It means the bill has been introduced into the legislature and it has to be voted on.
Now, it takes a really special kind of idiot to not see the difference, so I have no reason to think this is not intentional fearmongering.
Slashdot did the exact same thing when this kind of thing was introduced in the UK. I don't think it has made it through Parliament yet there either. Now, if it DID, and UK police do have this kind of power, I didn't hear a word about it, which is the really bad part.
Teh interwebs get all spun up when a bad law is proposed. Then, if it actually passes, it goes unnoticed because everyone has already huffed and puffed and forgotten about it.
Welcome to democracy in the age of 15-second attention spans.
-1, Flaimbait by some dumbshit who lacks foresight.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1149507&cid=27074505
But, the EFF story:
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/05/0410245
then follows a day later...
The point *i* am making is about RAGE. PURE, UNADULTERATED.... RAGE that illigetimate spying on people.
*Talking about* (rather than *planning*) booby-trapping and setting up backdoor detection is about expression of RAGE. Anyone who takes a cursory glance at random samplings of my posts can see that i am reasonably intelligent enough to not ACTUALLY SET an illegal boobytrap of the explosive, burning, dismembering or similar kind.
Now, we have the EFF releasing a tool to do the LEGAL side in work, deed, expression and act.
But, instead, people see only the dangerous side of my expression, not the symptom or cause of WHY i tend to express this way. SOMEtimes raw, sharp, vicious speech serves a purpose without carrying into act. This serves to prompt others to find the safer, more acceptable alternative. EFF may have been for a long time working on this. It's just coincidental that my anger is expressed a day before we hear they released a(nother) tool users can hopefully count on.
As for kicking ass of an intruder, there are few reasons for anyone to be **IN** a home that is not theirs: guest or intruder. Intruder includes drunkards, or ANYONE entering the domicile even in good faith. Once their mistake has been made clear, they need to clear out, even if they think they have power to just stick around and turn the place upside down just showing that THEY are in command, not the tenant.
How would any of YOU feel if you inadvertently discovered your computer was bugged, and every time you cleaned it, a new less obvious method popped up, and every time you swept your home, your calls, your e-mails, your vehicle, your clothing, your friends and family... ALL turn out to be tapped. Every new contact you make... marked because *some*day they could be the unforseen crucial link.
That is where we are, and as long as we accept it, we cope. But, sometimes some investigators go too far. Some are not even empowered, authorized agents... some are petty instigators who happen to be commissioned to exploit technology to harass others, dig up dirt for future use, and just to aggregate knowledge.
Open your minds people: I may dwell on the negative, but for the more "reasoned" of you to just respond to the negative with negatives instead of admitting the negativity i exhibit is a light on a bigger negativity....
As for the virii traps, like i said, if the information transfer technology protocols say that your computer should not transmit unless YOU initiate the response/transmission, then anyone on the outside commanding traffic you didn't initiate IS FAIR GAME. If they happent to be a zombie, or a federal agent fishing around, they are TRESPASSING. If i can have a lock on my door, i can have a lock on my computer. If i can use a hammer or a gun or a taser within my home against an intruder threatening me, then i can disable or mark for traceability anyone trying to penetrate my infrastructure. If in the process i *out* some super-stealth or clandestine organization, then those masters of the universe must have become sloppy. I know in MY heart i've done or said some crazy, interesting, perplexing, or maybe questionable things that may instigate a wiretap, but i have not broken any laws (real or in draft) warranting a wiretap. So, if i defend my property to the death, that's my personal decision.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Who modded this flamebait? Australia DOES have bloody awful internet service, compared to the rest of the Western world. SLow speeds, download limits, not to mention the proposed filtering that has received so much press. In fact, right now, I'm browsing slashdot of dialup. Remember dialup? I have recently upgraded from my previous data plan which involved kangaroos with pouches full of punched cards and other cliches.
I'm not passed out drunk though, which nobody laments more than myself.
sustainable living
"What are you suggesting that they get denied there right"
This sentence could be read two different ways. Firstly as "What, are you suggesting that they get denied there, right?" or alternatively as "What, are you suggesting that they get denied their right?".
When I first read your diatribe, I read it as the first possibility, and had to reread it a couple of times to understand that you meant the second.
Most of the finer points of English grammar exist to express pauses and stress that are obvious in spoken English, but are missing when it's written. The sentence above is a great example of this.
"Did you understand the meaning or did some noise get in the way? "
No, I didn't understand the meaning at first.
I agree that English can be a pain to learn, and it seems that it's not your first language. However, grammar rules are there for a reason, and if you want to express yourself clearly in writing, perhaps you should learn some instead of writing snarky replies.
Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
At least now everybody knows. Can start getting those alarm systems and video surveillance setups running. And if they get caught at it and killed, I'm pretty sure "Defending myself from the guy with a gun who had broken into my house" is a valid reason for lethal force.
That's not police power, THIS is police power..
Big Brother is now very definitely watching you and police powers have been abused in the past in this country. What is to stop N.S.W. police planting evidence in computers and houses they do search covertly? Life just got a whole lot more dangerous even if you are a "good law abiding citizen" that is unless you are using cyberforcefield its the only way to keep the snoops and hackers out