Slashdot Mirror


PDF Vulnerability Now Exploitable With No Clicking

SkiifGeek writes "With Adobe's patch for the current PDF vulnerability still some time away, news has emerged of more techniques that are available to exploit the vulnerability, this time without needing the victim to actually open a malicious file. Instead, the methods make use of a Windows Explorer Shell Extension that is installed alongside Adobe Reader, and which will trigger the exploitable code when the file is interacted with in Windows Explorer. Methods have been demonstrated of successful exploitation with a single click, with thumbnail view, and with merely hovering the mouse cursor over the affected file. There are many ways that exploits targeting the JBIG2 vulnerability could be hidden inside a PDF file, and it seems that the reliability of detection for these varying methods is spotty, at best."

206 comments

  1. Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by forand · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This vulnerability is not inherent to PDF but to Adobe's implementations.

    1. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by OpenGLFan · · Score: 4, Informative

      Adobe's particularly horrible implementation.

      Right now, on my laptop, I have two VirtualBox sessions running images pretty close to the servers at work. I'm testing out some simulation. I've got slashdot open in Firefox, and I've got Adobe's PDF reader open to a reference manual.

      The PDF reader is using more memory than the two virtual servers combined. That's a ridiculous amount of bloat, and it doesn't even count the "Adobe Updater" software that runs all the time.

    2. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by gravos · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you use Windows try this alternative implementation: Sumatra PDF Reader. It's Open Source, less than half the size of Foxit (1/15th the size of Acrobat) and has search, text-read, copy-paste, and plenty of keyboard shortcuts. It's very quick and streamlined and makes Foxit look bloated in comparison. And naturally it's not affected by this vulnerability.

    3. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by hey! · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's kind of a flaw that is endemic to the commercial software development model. This is not to say that that model is useless or F/OSS doesn't have its own problems.

      The root of the problem is how we "add value" to a piece of software. Since with F/OSS, software development has a service model, you mainly add value by adding services: documentation, support, consulting. You can't "add value" by adding features to the software, at least if you try to you only get paid once for doing so.

      A proprietary software developer can get paid multiple times for adding a piece of value into the software. For software that is sold, this is driven by market segmentation. The least pernicious form of this is the ubiquitous "bronze/silver/gold" model where they try to maximize their return from cheapskates, pragmatists and spendthrifts respectively. If you are cheapskate who needs a feature in the "gold" edition, you're out of luck. In the worst case, it drives a bewildering proliferation of "products", as vendors try to find the division of features that maximizes their returns (which is an instance of the NP-Complete "integer programming problem", only approximations are practical). From a customers standpoint, it sometimes looks like a whirlwind has picked up all the features and dropped them into random pigeonholes.

      The "value adding" imperative still applies to free as in free beer proprietary software. In such cases, the developer still is looking to get paid, only in different coin, e.g. control of formats and the market power that comes with it. Adobe benefits from PDF being a non-proprietary format because it encourages adoption, but it is risky because they wouldn't benefit if they did not control the dominant implementations of PDF technology. And they try very hard, I think, to have the best implementations, which leads to the old problem of adding value by adding features. The hope is that by adding features nobody has asked for, when those features are missing from a different implementation, that implementation will be seen as less complete and polished. I think this often works, but it leads to this kind of blowback siutation: security flaws introduced to users systems along with features the user never asked for.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    4. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by jjackalb · · Score: 3, Informative
    5. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It also has fewer features than xpdf.

    6. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Hmph. Doesn't surprise me. The Adobe Acrobat Reader setup pinned my CPU for a solid 5 minutes and consumed more memory than Firefox consumes even at its worst.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    7. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Dwedit · · Score: 1

      Sumatra Reader can't select text.

    8. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by richlv · · Score: 1

      and the yellow page design hurts my eyes.
      i couldn't find a feature list, but i assume that saving filled forms (or form support at all ?) isn't available.
      while it has potential, feature parity and exceeding will be required to gain some serious marketshare.

      --
      Rich
    9. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by electrosoccertux · · Score: 1, Informative

      Eh, it's buggy. I just installed it, and after 4 seconds figured out I can't even scroll with PDFs on "Facing" mode (how I primarily use PDFs).

      Also there's no toolbar buttons like in Acrobat for changing the view.
      I think I'll stick with Reader 7.0.x + ARSpeedup for now.

    10. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Piranhaa · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      It's also included with the PortableApps bundle. It makes for one hellova tool to carry around with you on a flash drive. At less than 1.5MB, you can't go wrong.

    11. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this isn't new at all, really. Due to default application settings in browsers, Acrobat will start right up when they server passes back the pdf.

    12. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Well, by default it will.

      Firefox: Add-ons, Plugins, Adobe Acrobat, Disable.

      Internet Explorer: Internet Options, Programs, Manage Add-ons, Adobe PDF Reader Link Helper, Disable.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    13. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Well, cancel that... the Firefox fix works, but IE still loads PDFs internally. I can't find a setting to stop that from happening. Somebody else have any idea?

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    14. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Threni · · Score: 1

      I don't understand this whole PDF thing. It's like a protected format. How can something be an open format if you have to pay to get an app which handles the format and which can do stuff like let you save, print, cut/paste text etc. I use Foxit because it's not as ridiculous as Adobe's app, but Foxit doesn't do enough (perhaps the non-free version does, but I want a free version).

      Failing that, perhaps a pdf-html converter would do the trick. Essentially I just want to read text and view images. What's the problem here?

    15. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      PDF is a published ISO standard. Prior to that, Adobe documented the PDF format and gave a royalty-free license for their PDF patents. That's why it's an open format. Maybe open source programmers are too lazy or dumb. Apple didn't have a problem implementing PDF support.

    16. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by BrokenHalo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Essentially I just want to read text and view images.

      That's all PDF is for. I've lost count of the number of hours I've spent on the phone to users who imagine that editing PDFs with Acrobat Professional is going to be easy. The whole point of PDF is that it is an end-point document, viewable on screen or printable with a consistent format. It was never intended to provide a format designed for being edited.

      That's where OpenOffice (or NeoOffice) has it right - providing a nice handy button to click to export your document as a PDF, but not leaving you under any illusion that that has anything to do with the real document.

    17. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      as vendors try to find the division of features that maximizes their returns (which is an instance of the NP-Complete "integer programming problem", only approximations are practical)

      Deciding four-colorability of planar graphs is O(1)---that's the famous Four Color Theorem---so it's in P so it's in NP so it reduces to SAT, integer linear programming and god knows what else.

      Does that mean that only approximations to "bool fourcolorable(graph_t *G) { return true; }" are practical? Return true some of the time? I think it looks perfectly practical. In fact, it scales perfectly to any number of graphs ;-)

      If you're claiming that integer linear programming reduces to "Vista Segmentation" and thus is NP complete (rather than just being in NP), I'd like to see a proof. No [citation needed], on slashpedia you can submit your own original research :)

    18. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      I don't understand this whole PDF thing.

      That's the reason for your problems. Really.

      Read it up. PDF is just PostScript in an envelope. Which is a very open and stardardized printer document language.
      And it is text too. Although it embeds binary images, fonts and so on, too.

      But you can open it with a text editor, and change stuff, just like you would do with HTML or TeX. Try it on an OpenOffice generated one, because the ocred/printed ones are often a horrible mess.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    19. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by ladybugfi · · Score: 1

      You are mistaken! Open source implementations also got it wrong, it isn't just Adobe. See for example problems in poppler here. Since there are apparently different problems in several independent JBIG2 format implementations, maybe the format specification isn't as clear as it should be?

    20. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      It's kind of a flaw that is endemic to the commercial software development model.

      Yup, the true price of bloat.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    21. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe if you looked at Sumatra for another second instead of immediately going to slashdot to complain, you would have found the "continuous facing" mode under the view menu that lets you scroll with the mouse or keyboard arrows.

    22. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Your+Pal+Dave · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not obvious, but if you hold down the control key while mousing text is selected and automatically copied to the clip board.

      Once you get used to it this is actually quite convenient.

    23. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by interiot · · Score: 4, Informative
      For Windows, there are others:

      (yes, there's a ton of good PDF freeware available now)

    24. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Your+Pal+Dave · · Score: 2, Informative

      Inside Adobe Reader (version 8 at least) under Tools|Preferences|Internet uncheck "Display PDF in browser" in the "Web Browser Options" group.

    25. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by CodeBuster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've lost count of the number of hours I've spent on the phone to users who imagine that editing PDFs with Acrobat Professional is going to be easy.

      The problem is that people do not understand the difference between a text editor or word processor and a print layout or typesetting program. Acrobat is more like the latter and less like the former. If people understood a bit more about the different goals of these different programs then they would not be as surprised that it isn't easy to use a professional print layout tool just like they would use a word processor.

    26. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by maxume · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with View->Continuous facing?

      (I still use Reader9, but you got modded up...)

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    27. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by maxume · · Score: 1

      Except the people who point out that it is now possible to embed the OO.org document inside of the pdf, to enable editing of the original document.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    28. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by clone53421 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's really stupid that IE doesn't let you manage its behaviour when downloading a PDF.

      Inside Adobe Reader (version 8 at least) under Edit|Preferences|Internet uncheck "Display PDF in browser" in the "Web Browser Options" group.

      I'm seeing Preferences under Edit, not Tools.

      Unfortunately, it still launches the PDF in Adobe Reader. That's no fix at all: malicious PDFs will still be opened automatically. There's apparently no way to have it prompt you to find out if you want to open, download, or not.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    29. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Now we just need a way to embed the PDF inside the OO.org document so we can get infinite recursion. Yay!

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    30. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Foxit is my personal favorite.

    31. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by uniquegeek · · Score: 1

      I guess I would call Adobe's pdf software a prime example of feature creep.

      At home, I just use it for reading, so free Linux versions are just fine... though the one feature I sorely miss in non-Adobe versions is the lack of Extracting and Combining pdfs & pages.

    32. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by digitig · · Score: 1

      And it is text too.

      Except when it isn't. If it's encrypted it's still PDF but you're not going to get much joy out of it with a text editor.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    33. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simple: Uninstall Adobe Uninstall IE8 (May have to wait for Windows 7: http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/04/2321224&from=rss) Find quality replacements. Sleep well at night.

    34. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Or just don't use IE to browse the web. If you use Firefox and disable the Adobe plugin, it asks you what to do with the PDF exactly like it ought to (unless you define a default action – needless to say, the default action shouldn't be "Open with Adobe Reader"). If you've disabled the shell extension, you could even allow it to save by default, since the PDF could then safely be deleted if you didn't trust it.

      'Course, you're still stuck with the possibility that an application might ignore your default browser and launch IE. I do know Windows Media Player files can spawn popups – although I do think it respects the default browser choice, at least. (Aside: applications which launch things like this go into immediate disuse on my PC – if I don't uninstall them – and I find a replacement that doesn't have this "feature".)

      It does come pretty close to the point where you just uninstall Adobe Reader.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    35. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Slumdog · · Score: 0

      Foxit is my personal favorite.

      My gripes:
      1. It wants to install ask.com as a default search engine (I have nothing against ask.com, but why involve another company?)
      2. Installs a foxit toolbar.
      I guess, I'll go back to using acrobat 5.5 now.

    36. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Slumdog · · Score: 0

      Well, by default it will.

      Firefox: Add-ons, Plugins, Adobe Acrobat, Disable.

      Internet Explorer: Internet Options, Programs, Manage Add-ons, Adobe PDF Reader Link Helper, Disable.

      Someone will mod you up quite soon.

    37. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice theory. You must have missed the discussion of the "awesome bar" going on in the firefox thread right now.

    38. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 1

      No, we just need to give Acrobat Reader the ability to send EMail, and then it will be done.

      --

      help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

    39. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by maxume · · Score: 1

      In (at least) Reader9, there is an "Attach to email" item in the file menu. It does use the system email client rather than sending itself, so we could argue about whether it is really sending email.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    40. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by scientus · · Score: 1

      run reader 5.5, it was the only remotely decent release, and everything works with it.

      I use linux and use evince, and it works excelland and is not a hog.

    41. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by hey! · · Score: 1

      I'm talking about the problem of finding the economically optimal assignment of feature to product. Since a feature is either in or not in a product, it's an integer programming, assuming we can express marginal profits as linear equations, which would be the easiest case.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    42. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by hey! · · Score: 1

      Well, that's the same motivation: an institution that wants to gain market share. However if users don't like that feature, the developers who agree with them will fork.

      It's a bit like how quantum computing is supposed to work. Only so many developers can work on a project before diminishing returns sets in; a good controversy can be addressed by a good schism, where the question can be resolved by two more optimally sized teams.

      What's surprising is that it doesn't happen more often.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    43. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by rkanodia · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, dawg. Xzibit is on his way; he's heard that you love PDFs...

    44. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      'Course, you're still stuck with the possibility that an application might ignore your default browser and launch IE.

      Not in OpenSuse 11. :-)

    45. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by lamapper · · Score: 1

      ...Open source implementations also got it wrong, it isn't just Adobe. See for example problems in poppler here [vupen.com]. ...

      Good post. I am assuming that your research is true as that is not the reason I am posting, rather I had another thought.

      How open source developers often choose to implement open source applications, widgets, plug-ins, etc....

      Too often they choose to implement a new feature in the way that Windows does it...huge mistake. Why adopt an inferior implementation from an inferior product that runs on an inferior platform on an inferior operating system that bloats out your system, denies you the ability to control JACK on your system and results in this kind of activity happening to you. All could be avoided by not using the junk and adopting a superior open source solution.

      Assuming your assumption is correct, I am not going to bother to check as my point goes to other open source apps and NOT just popular. Anyway, could this problem with poppler specifically, be because they are attempting to implement a feature in an open source application / widget / plug-in etc... that works LIKE WINDOWS works?

      While it is nice to be able to do some things in Linux with Windows applications (nod to NdisWrapper and Wine as two that come readily to mind); Why bog down a superior operating system that runs faster, more efficiently with less memory and fewer system resources by forking into it Windows (or other proprietary vendor: ie. Oracle, Adobe, Nvidia) bloat.

      Why not force the vendors to give you their product in a format that works out of the box with Linux, Mac OS and Unix. And if they refuse, fine, do NOT buy their products.

      I do NOT want to work like Windows....geez. I want control, freedom and net neutrality.

      About freedom, if your choice of freedom denies anyone else their freedom, you are wrong, stop it, wake up! Stop the FUD, FUD denies freedom!

      Just find an open source only solution to the problem (Linux is my choice, yours may vary); thus the problems (too many to list) with Windows (in the case of this article, Internet Explorer NOT letting you control settings on what the browser does and does NOT do with the .PDF file) are minimized and most likely eliminated.

      Either you are in control of your IT environment or YOU ARE NOT. To be FREE (some might say to be American, i.e. FREE as in Freedom that many have fought and died for...; you MUST be able to control your computer (PC, Cell Phone, Hand Held, net book, etc...), your Browser, your Router/Firewall, your Bandwidth (no throttling), all of it.) you must have CONTROL. You MUST have NET NEUTRALITY. You must have at least three or more choices, if you have less than three choices, you do NOT have a choice (nod to our pathetic two party political system here in the US, where neither party resembles what they use to represent, what they use to be, but people continue to ac

      --
      Is your Internet Throttled? Install DD-Wrt, OpenWRT or Tomato to learn the truth! Google: 1Gbps/1Gbps: 5 Communities
    46. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      does anyone on /. use any Adobe PDF software ? Shame on them if they do.

    47. Re:Not PDF vulnerability ... Adobe vulnerability by redxxx · · Score: 1

      I have nothing against ask.com, but why involve another company?

      Because it takes time and money to develop software and sometime people want to get some of that back.

      Ask.com gives them money.

  2. Does it affect other platforms as well? by guruevi · · Score: 1

    Since PDF is Portable, does it affect other platforms as well. Or is it Windows specific? Does it affect other libraries than the Adobe ones? And why the fsck does a freakin' DOCUMENT have scripting in it? I can understand form elements but not something akin to shell scripting.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    1. Re:Does it affect other platforms as well? by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      Adobe [PDF] Reader for Windows, Linux, and OS X are all vulnerable.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    2. Re:Does it affect other platforms as well? by Camann · · Score: 3, Informative

      does it affect other platforms as well. Or is it Windows specific?

      Yes and no respectively. It only affects Adobe Reader. All other PDF software is unaffected, I believe.

      --
      I can't believe you don't know what a Hasemalphaginnojinglanaporphomism is.
    3. Re:Does it affect other platforms as well? by Aladrin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "And why the fsck does a freakin' DOCUMENT have scripting in it? I can understand form elements but not something akin to shell scripting."

      Can I assume that you're upset about HTML having all this stupid Javascript stuff, too? I mean, it's just for displaying and linking to information. It doesn't need 'something akin to shell scripting'.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    4. Re:Does it affect other platforms as well? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      and installing and using adobe reader speedup or adobe reader lite that has all the bloat stripped out solves the problem as well.

      Honestly Adobe reader went downhill ever since 5.1 was released... 5.0 was the best after that they only have added in garbage.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re:Does it affect other platforms as well? by Lord+Jester · · Score: 1

      It comes into play for forms control.

      You can dynamically control the document, available elements, behaviors, etc based on object states.

      It is also used to pre-populate data (not fdf) for eForms.

    6. Re:Does it affect other platforms as well? by maxume · · Score: 1

      9 is quite a lot better than 7 and 8.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    7. Re:Does it affect other platforms as well? by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      I will take the risk and tell it. Adobe Reader 9 is one of the best performing and low CPU using PDF readers out there and I am writing this from a 1.42 Ghz G4 Mac Mini with 1G RAM installed.

      It is real sad that because of the bureaucrats and some idiots at Adobe, one of the most serious multi platform security vulnerabilities happened just when Adobe Reader was heading right direction both in performance and UI wise.

      I know what you mean by version 5 and I actually have it installed in a Quad G5 (via Tiger's Classic support). It was just getting fixed in 9 and this junk happened. I bet they will add some junk like UAC of Vista pre SP1 making people even more mad instead of fixing the root of problem.

    8. Re:Does it affect other platforms as well? by mmontour · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Can I assume that you're upset about HTML having all this stupid Javascript stuff, too?

      I can't speak for the original poster, but I'm certainly happier since I installed the NoScript extension in Firefox. Slashdot was one of the main reasons that I installed it, as there was some script on the front page that used to freeze my browser for a few seconds for no good reason.

      In a PDF "document" I sure as hell don't want any active scripts beyond the ones that are needed to generate the pixels I'm looking at. I can see a use for interactive forms and similar scripted things, but they should not be lumped into the same category as read-only documents.

    9. Re:Does it affect other platforms as well? by anss123 · · Score: 1

      Thought macs had a built in PDF reader. Why bother with crapware? Even version 9 install plugins and shell extensions all over, as if it's the most important app on the system. Fortunately there are efforts like Sumatra on the PC - even if it's slow to render and lacks forms, plugins and whatever Adobe thinks of next.

    10. Re:Does it affect other platforms as well? by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 1

      Doesn't OSX Tiger have build in pdf support? Why install Adobe Reader?

  3. So, don't use Adobe Reader by Shaman · · Score: 2, Informative

    Use Foxit! Reader on Windows and something else on other operating systems, such as Okular.

    --
    ...Steve
    1. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by symes · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sod it - I'm going back to plain text and ascii art.

    2. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Fuck it! Every single Adobe vulnerability article (for there are many) and someone says use Foxit.

      Foxit is bad software. It comes with an opt-out shitty toolbar. It comes with opt-out ebay link.
      Finally once its installed it has a shitty inline advert bar.

      Face it, there isn't a good PDF reader for windows.

    3. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by jbn-o · · Score: 1

      Jumping from one uninspectable, unmodifiable proprietary PDF reader to another is not wise. Better to run more free software, not less. Pick a free software PDF reader for all of your computers so you can see what it will do, change it to meet your needs, and share your improvements with the community. Better still, run a free software OS so you can enjoy the benefits of free software for all of your programs not just a PDF reader.

    4. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by bemenaker · · Score: 1

      The only problem I have with FoxIt is we use some PDF forms at work and FoxIt can't do the digital signatures. Other than that, FoxIt is great.

    5. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many times have you actually looked into the source code and analyzed exactly what it was doing? Just because its open doesn't mean its not vulnerable.

    6. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by Thiez · · Score: 1

      > Jumping from one uninspectable, unmodifiable proprietary PDF reader to another is not wise.

      I don't have the time, the knowledge, and the motivation to inspect and modify my PDF reader. Few people do.

      > Pick a free software PDF reader for all of your computers so you can see what it will do, change it to meet your needs, and share your improvements with the community.

      Keep in mind that the vast majority is not going to read the source code. 'You can read the source' is irrelevant 99% of the time; if I would read the source of every program/OS to check for bugs before I started using it, I could start using linux in a decade, and maybe even run a browser a few years later. Sure, others could read the source for me, but only very populair open source projects will have enough readers for the advantage of the 'many eyes' to become significant. Most 'yet another open source ' projects will only have the source read by a very small number of people; such software will not be significantly more 'inspected' than closed source software.

    7. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'You can read the source' is irrelevant 99% of the time

      Sure, but "some third party, somewhere, can audit the code" is relevant to many people. I trust GPG doesn't have a back-door, not because I have audited it myself, but because (presumably) someone would have found it by now. It's not perfect, but it's better than simply trusting the people with obvious conflicts of interest.

    8. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How many times have you actually looked into the source code and analyzed exactly what it was doing? Just because its open doesn't mean its not vulnerable.

      I bet 99% of OSS monkeys never look through the source code of the software they're using. You see, they believe that "someone else" is looking at the code and checking to make sure it doesn't do anything nasty. What if everyone's thinking the same thing and no-one's really checking for malevolent code?

    9. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because *YOU* don't have the skills necessary to view and modify source code, don't ASSume the rest of the world is as ignorant. There are plenty of stories of end-users turned programmers who didn't like how a feature worked in an OSS app. They pulled up the source code, found where the feature was, learned how to change it, and submitted their first ever patch.

    10. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by ArsonSmith · · Score: 4, Informative

      'You can read the source' is irrelevant 99% of the time;

      The point is that someone, other than the original author, can and most likely has.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    11. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am intrigued... What is this "Okular" operating system of which you speak?

    12. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      If one has at least KDE shared libs installed, kpdf could be a nice full feature open source replacement. I know there are lots of different alternatives exist but I was amazed by the performance and display quality of kpdf on OS X (installed via fink). We already have state of art quartz pdf renderer and it is hard to impress people on this platform.

    13. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by frudi · · Score: 1
      Being able to view and edit the source of a program is very low on my priority list and for a simple tool like a PDF reader it's total non-issue. What I do care about is:
      • price; Foxit is free, so that's a check
      • features; Foxit does what I want it to do. I can read and print PDF's, display two pages at once, select&copy text and search. That covers 99% of my PDF needs, so that's a check
      • speed and memory footprint; Foxit loads instantly and uses 5MB + about 0.1MB per cached page of memory, that's also a check
      • reliability; Foxit has yet to crash on me, so that's another a check
      • size; Foxit's < 2MB installer and < 5MB disk use after install is fine with me, so check this also

      Bottom line - Foxit does it's job well enough for me. I'm sure a better alternative exists and if someone serves it to me on a plate, I would switch to it. But actively searching for it just doesn't seem to be worth the time.

    14. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by corsec67 · · Score: 1

      What about compiling a program for something other than x86, like x86_64?

      That uses source code, and is an advantage for people that use something other than x86.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
    15. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being able to view and edit the source of a program is very low on my priority

      Why is that fat boy? How do you know that the code doesn't contain something nasty?

    16. Re:So, don't use Adobe Reader by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      Interestingly enough Foxit supports javascript in pdf files too and its enabled by default (disclaimer: last I checked).

  4. Getting it out there by Colourspace · · Score: 0

    Why aren't stories of this nature ever tagged 'Streisand effect'? Surely drawing attention to the wider blackhat doesn't help? Then again, keeping it quiet probably doesn't either... So who is doing the cost/benefit analysis of broadcasting this sort of info?

    1. Re:Getting it out there by sydneyfong · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Black hats don't read slashdot to fish for new exploits.

      --
      Don't quote me on this.
    2. Re:Getting it out there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a dream!
      That one day we will stop judging a man by the color of his hat
      but by the content of their charector

      ~Modified Martin (the racist anti semite) King

  5. Ninnle Protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...already exists for this threat. People will learn, and mod this down at your peril.

  6. DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by Gothmolly · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Executable code should not be embedded in documents, the format should not allow it, and document readers should not execute code.

    How fscking hard is this?

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by johnsonav · · Score: 1

      Executable code should not be embedded in documents, the format should not allow it, and document readers should not execute code.

      Sorry, but you lost this fight a long time ago. Even emacs supports embedded executable code in documents.

      --
      ... and that's when the C.H.U.D.'s came at me.
    2. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by gzipped_tar · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Basically there's no difference between executable code and non-executable data by nature. The problems is caused by a buffer overflow error in the program, which allows arbitrary code execution, bypassing the usual, intended input validation (if any).

      So, this has nothing to do with the document format standard. Even if the standard forbids executable code (whatever that means), a coding error could render this kind of protection futile.

      --
      Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
    3. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by Altreus · · Score: 1

      If the commerical software companies followed the could've would've should'ves of good software design it'd be a hell of a lot more difficult for these exploits to have any disastrous effect when they did, inevitably, arise anyway.

      --
      74.117.115.116 32.97.110.111 116.104.101.114 32.80.101.114 108.32.104.97 99.107.101.114
    4. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sorry, but you lost this fight a long time ago. Even emacs supports embedded executable code in documents.

      And don't forget Postscritpt. And LaTeX.

      At the ICFP08 conference, there was a student who'd written an autonomous (simulated) robot controller, in LaTeX.

    5. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Without executable content in documents, how can we make them smart and clickable and do lots of stupid things? If we did as you suggested, we'd only be able to read the document. BORING!

    6. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by myxiplx · · Score: 1

      And if you really, really have to allow some kind of code in documents, for the love of all that's holy, don't allow anything to execute by just hovering your mouse over it.

      I don't know who to shout at more for this. Adobe for having such a stupid bug. Or Microsoft for allowing people to modify windows explorer in such an unsafe way.

      If you're going to allow extensions to such a fundamental part of the OS, surely they should be sandboxed and isolated, to guard against exactly this kind of thing?

    7. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by ledow · · Score: 1

      Remember WMF?

      A graphics file format that basically relied on calling Windows primitive functions to draw itself and (for a long time) allowed arbitrary binary code inside them to be executed whenever they were displayed?

    8. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      You mean, even LaTeX is not safe against Viruses? What should we use then? Or should we just abstain from writing documents altogether...

    9. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by Gothmolly · · Score: 1

      No, the yutzes who allowed emacs to execute code lost the fight.

      --
      I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    10. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as the gif exploit reminded us not so long ago.

    11. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by HideyoshiJP · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should not constantly worry about viruses written for a piece of software very few people use and cross the bridge of dealing with such a virus when it happens.

    12. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1
      Well, more and more people are using LaTeX, as they become worried about viruses...

      Just let's hope that the bridge won't be a toll bridge when it'll be finished...

    13. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by HideyoshiJP · · Score: 1

      As I cannot disagree with your point, I feel it merely comes down to a philosophical issue. Does one not cross the street for fear of being hit by a car?

    14. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1
      Well, crossing the street would be an individual choice, at least you won't put another person in danger.

      Writing documents with or without LaTeX is a different matter, because you always have to think about the health of your partner to whom you'll send your documents too. Of course, all this becomes moot if you only exchange documents with a single person (you'd only sent back viruses to where they came from in the first place), but after a while it'd be rather boring.

    15. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by johnsonav · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, the fight was lost when we first decided to use ones and zeros to represent both code and data. There is simply no significant difference between the two. Indeed, you can't have data which does not alter the execution of code.

      --
      ... and that's when the C.H.U.D.'s came at me.
    16. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by deraj123 · · Score: 1

      No, one would still cross the street. However, one SHOULD be sufficiently worried about being hit by a car to ask the right questions and obtain the proper knowledge required to avoid that happening to the best of one's ability. "Crossing that bridge when it happens" is rather undesirable when we're talking about being hit by a car - I'd prefer to address the issue as best I can before it happens. I feel the same way about viruses.

    17. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2, Funny

      You mean, even LaTeX is not safe against Viruses? What should we use then?

      LaMbSkIn?

    18. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      That's indeed a more natural form of Word processing. Whether it is better at protecting against viruses than LaTeX is open for debate.

    19. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by zindorsky · · Score: 1

      And don't forget Postscritpt. And LaTeX.

      At the ICFP08 conference, there was a student who'd written an autonomous (simulated) robot controller, in LaTeX.

      I thought latex was supposed to protect us from viruses!!

      I guess I'll just throw away all those condoms ...

      --
      If the geiger counter does not click, the coffee, she is not thick.
    20. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by The+name+is+Dave.+Ja · · Score: 1

      ... but if you crossed the street or bridge

              in a car,

      then you'd be okay and the analogy would too!

      An open-source car, of course.

    21. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by maxume · · Score: 1

      Just recompile your Latex environment without support for scripting.

      Then you don't have to worry about it.

      Or use plain text.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    22. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by maxume · · Score: 1

      For a long time, there was a prevalent attitude that sandboxing was less important than user convenience (this attitude relies on everybody worrying about security, so you get crazy vulnerabilities like this).

      The good news is that it is straightforward to disable the plugin (I wanted to say that it is easy, but it isn't easy unless you have lots of otherwise useless, Windows specific knowledge and experience).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    23. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by steelfood · · Score: 1

      Just because you can put executable code in a document, doesn't mean the document reader should execute it.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    24. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sandboxie!

      http://www.sandboxie.com/

    25. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by V!NCENT · · Score: 1

      No, the fight was lost when people started going online, or even before that; share digital information from and to a device that computes information.

      --
      Here be signatures
    26. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

      Just because you can put executable code in a document, doesn't mean the document reader should execute it.

      True, but at least with LaTeX and Postscript, some code must be executed just to render the document. So for some document formats, precluding all document code execution makes the rendering program useless.

    27. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by pacinpm · · Score: 1

      Executable code should not be embedded in documents, the format should not allow it, and document readers should not execute code.

      Do you realize that PostScript document is de facto a program? I play a devil's advocate here because PDF vulnerability has nothing to do with graphic content but with embedded JavaScript. Nevertheless you are wrong. Being a document is not opposite to being a program.

    28. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by HideyoshiJP · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, I don't think I clarified what I meant by "crossing that bridge." The point I was trying to make was that from a user standpoint, it is unreasonable to stop using a piece of software solely because vulnerabilities may present themselves. I am not advocating that nothing be done to address the vulnerabilities before viruses are written, nor do I advocate doing nothing to protect yourself from said viruses.

    29. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, I don't think I clarified what I meant by "crossing that bridge." The point I was trying to make was that from a user standpoint, it is unreasonable to stop using a piece of software solely because vulnerabilities may present themselves.

      O, and I naively thought that by the "bridge" you meant a cure for AIDS. Silly me...

      I am not advocating that nothing be done to address the vulnerabilities before viruses are written, nor do I advocate doing nothing to protect yourself from said viruses.

      Hmmm, but what can we do to protect ourselves, if LaTeX doesn't? :-)

    30. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure many people would agree with the "one tool one job" of just reading ebooks. That said some people wanted to create proprietary and secure forms where citizens may fill in government form information from within Adobe Acrobat Reader. That's where all this pdf inline activex/java scripting stuff originated. i.e. "What you fill-in and see is what you print" instead of "What you see is what you print".

    31. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      Strangely enough - I can't think of a document viewer outside of notepad (and programs like it) that doesn't support embedded code...

      But then even VI and Notepad have had arbitrary code execution vulnerabilties...

    32. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      If a textual document format allows for embedding executable code, then any text editor should be able to do so. If the format does not allow such code, how can emacs embed it?

      Or do these textual documents have nontextual elements?

    33. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by johnsonav · · Score: 1

      If a textual document format allows for embedding executable code, then any text editor should be able to do so. If the format does not allow such code, how can emacs embed it?

      You can embed Emacs Lisp into a document which will be executed when the document is opened in Emacs. It's not machine code, but is pretty powerful nonetheless. Potentially, the Lisp could exploit a buffer overflow in Emacs and would open it up to arbitrary code execution, just like Acrobat.

      --
      ... and that's when the C.H.U.D.'s came at me.
    34. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      What executable code is in

      \documentclass{book}
      \begin{document}
      Hello, World!
      \end{document}

      ?

      I've used LaTeX for quite some time, and I don't recall ever embedding executable code in it.

    35. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What executable code is in

      \documentclass{book}
      \begin{document}
      Hello, World!
      \end{document}

      ?

      I've used LaTeX for quite some time, and I don't recall ever embedding executable code in it.

      There are some documents that don't require explicit programming, and some that do.

      If you look inside many LaTeX macro implementations, such as "\section", I think you'll find code that sets and reads variables for things such as section number.

    36. Re:DONT CROSS THE STREAMS by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      By that standard, using \psplot in PSTricks would also count. Oops.

  7. PDF and Viruses by abigsmurf · · Score: 1

    I caught my first ever virus using Firefox thanks to some sort of PDF exploit. Was browsing normally, got a popup that flashed up for a brief second and I saw it was a PDF of sorts. My hdd started thrashing and my anti-virus started giving me dozens of warnings.

    Managed to make sure there was no trace of the virus on my system but it serves as a warning to people who assume Firefox is perfectly safe providing you are careful.

    1. Re:PDF and Viruses by John+Hasler · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you allowed a popup to occur you were not being careful.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:PDF and Viruses by MadKeithV · · Score: 1

      If you allowed a PDF to occur you weren't being careful either. I've set noscript to block PDF until clicked, all the time.

    3. Re:PDF and Viruses by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      Best way to prevent these is to disable the PDF plugin that allows for automatically opening documents in the browser.

    4. Re:PDF and Viruses by Thiez · · Score: 2, Informative

      Does it matter? GP could also have have been tricked to click a link that leads to the same page as the popup. Disallowing popups would not have saved him in that situation. The problem is not allowing popups, the problem is that his browser was not secure.

    5. Re:PDF and Viruses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disallowing popups doesn't disallow popups anymore. The advertisers have ways around it. The only way for the GP to have been safe is to disallow all javascript which will disable an increasing number of websites, and even then a file might be loaded from plain HTML like in an iframe.

    6. Re:PDF and Viruses by Renraku · · Score: 1

      This type of exploit has been around for a while, actually.

      I had certain common malware installed because a banner on a popular site carried a PDF that I didn't even have to click on.

      --
      Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
    7. Re:PDF and Viruses by V!NCENT · · Score: 1

      If I [you] put a timed bomb [PDF] inside of your car [FireFox] then is the model of your car [Firefox] per definition not safe?

      --
      Here be signatures
    8. Re:PDF and Viruses by abigsmurf · · Score: 1

      You'd like to hope if you put unleaded petrol in a diesel car that it wouldn't explode in a huge fireball causing you a painful death.

    9. Re:PDF and Viruses by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      I caught my first ever virus using Firefox thanks to some sort of PDF exploit. Was browsing normally, got a popup that flashed up for a brief second and I saw it was a PDF of sorts. My hdd started thrashing and my anti-virus started giving me dozens of warnings.

      Managed to make sure there was no trace of the virus on my system but it serves as a warning to people who assume Firefox is perfectly safe providing you are careful.

      So there was a security vulnerability in Firefox's PDF rendering engine?

    10. Re:PDF and Viruses by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      No, Firefox doesn't have a PDF rendering engine. Adobe wrote the Firefox plugin, and when he installed Acrobat Reader, it assumed he was ok with installing the plugin in Firefox (actually, it probably asked and he probably gave it permission... but I digress).

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    11. Re:PDF and Viruses by smoker2 · · Score: 1

      And when exactly was the last time you did that ? honestly, call a spade a spade !

      you seem to want browser manufacturers to pre-guess their users browsing prefs. ! AKAIK, they still show the url of a link in the status bar.

    12. Re:PDF and Viruses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hurr durr Firefox is not secure because of PDF exploits.

    13. Re:PDF and Viruses by V!NCENT · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but then again petrolium is open source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum

      --
      Here be signatures
  8. Adobe Reader sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PDFs are a crappy format, Adobe Reader sucks. It's slow and bugs you repeatedly about updates.

    Personally, I prefer using Preview (it's a program on Mac OS X) to view PDFs. It's a lot faster and the interface is much better.

  9. Non-install alternative for Windows by Morris+Thorpe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I stopped using Reader long ago - not because of vulnerabilities, but because it was so slow and bloated and it installed stuff I did not want.

    I've been using Sumatra for a very long time and it has done well by me (http://blog.kowalczyk.info/software/sumatrapdf/index.html)
    Download the zip file for a no-install, single-file exe. Minimalistic but more than enough for 90 percent of pdf's I ever need to open (the rest, I open through Google docs.)

    1. Re:Non-install alternative for Windows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thanks for the link! I've long been searching for a Fox-it replacement on Windows and this looks like exactly what I wanted.

  10. Re: change it to meet your needs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Dearest Joey

    I have finally managed to make it display knitting patterns, so I updated the master source on sourceforge.

    All my love,

    Granny

  11. Whoa by ledow · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So when I click once on a file, executable code is run from the program associated with that file?
    When I view a file in Thumbnail mode, executable code is run from the program associated with that file?
    When I hover to get a filename, executable code is run from the program associated with that file?
    How many other daft, unnecessary executions of programs are there?

    Not surprising because this is Windows we are talking about but holy crap - what a way to design a file browser / operating system. The problem here is NOT Adobe, or PDF or anything else, the problem is terminally-shit operating system and file browser design - executing entire programs to perform unnecessary tasks (e.g. add a column to explorer, generate a small bitmap, provide some hover-text). My next question is: in which user context is that code run? Please tell me that it is AT MOST the current user and not SYSTEM or some other built-in account. This sort of stuff should be found by a series of regexp's (which the program supplies) on the file data, NOT letting the program run just to tell you that Fred wrote this particular file. Then you can execute those to your heart's content in a secured area that benefits from global security upgrades if anyone finds a way to compromise the regexp. A bit like using "file" on *nix... just supply it with a regexp for a particular file extension and let the regexp extract the date, time, author, etc. in a safe environment.

    No. Not MS. Every bit of freeware, every crappy game, anything that associates itself with a filename (which is almost impossible to stop on a home PC, only possible to detect/undo if you know how) is constantly run everything you view explorer in Thumbnail mode, or hover, or click on a file.

    It reminds me of a little bit of trickery I did back in school... given the task to "hack the school network" on a computer course, we managed it within minutes by running exploit programs. Being the brightest IT student back then, I was asked to help prevent a repeat... my solution was to misuse the Windows 3.1 file associations in the global WIN.INI so that .exe, .com, .bat, .pif were associated with a tiny program that everyone had network access to. Anytime anyone ran a program, it was sent as a command-line parameter to this "security program" instead.

    From there, the *program* would decide if the requested executable was actually valid and allowed (i.e. correct path, correct hash, put there by the network staff etc.) and if so, it executed it. If not, it popped up a message to deny access. It was surprisingly secure, given the state of multi-user networked Windows 3.1 back then, and even from an Administrator account we found it virtually impossible to get around provided other, more ordinary security was in place on WIN.INI (we even had to reset the admin account once because it managed to lock us out when we misconfigured it... fortunately, we had spare, unaffected accounts because we couldn't find any practical way around it!). Back then, though, you had to double-click, or File... Run... or whatever to make a program execute from the Windows shell... it even caught program execution from within Word macros that the network manager had been fighting for months ("A=Shell("Z:\game.exe")")... though not from a DOS shell, IIRC but we already had DOS Shells disabled by preventing the command.com from running except in specific contexts!

    How easy it would be to write a piece of malicious code that associated itself with all executable file types and executed BEFORE the executable... so even when you try to run Remove_Sasser.exe or Install_Antivirus.exe, it would be intercepting and denying those requests. Obviously this has always been possible to do when somebody double-clicked on a executable, but now the associated program gets run just by LOOKING at any file with the right filetype. Make that executable a self-replicating virus and it's basically unstoppable (Yes, if you're

    1. Re:Whoa by clone53421 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not surprising because this is Windows we are talking about but holy crap - what a way to design a file browser / operating system. The problem here is NOT Adobe, or PDF or anything else, the problem is terminally-shit operating system and file browser design - executing entire programs to perform unnecessary tasks (e.g. add a column to explorer, generate a small bitmap, provide some hover-text).

      That's strange, because the last time I booted up a Kubuntu live cd, the file explorer created preview bitmaps for all the PDFs in any folder I opened.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    2. Re:Whoa by Rary · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your +4 Interesting (at the time I'm writing this) rant against Microsoft completely fails to take into account the fact that this vulnerability is not limited to Windows, but in fact affects all platforms.

      Now, please write your rant 100 times on the blackboard, substituting "Linux" for "Windows", then write it 100 times more substituting "OSX" for "Windows".

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    3. Re:Whoa by ledow · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'll think your find that *this* vulnerability affects only Adobe products but I haven't seen any mention of anything saying that non-Windows platforms are vulnerable... I just checked CVE, secunia, etc. and the only disassembly I can find of it is for Windows. I'm not saying that bug doesn't exist on other platforms, but that's not my point... my point is that it's executing a program with (at least) user privileges to draw an icon, or a tooltip. WHY?

      I haven't seen another platform where Adobe Reader is executed to show a thumbnail of a PDF.

    4. Re:Whoa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly, that post will be continually modded up simply because it's anti-MS. Slashdot ain't interested in facts.

    5. Re:Whoa by ledow · · Score: 2, Informative

      What did it use to create those previews? Adobe Acrobat Reader (the associated program for that particular user on that particular system) or a program that has been specified specifically for that purpose? Or even it's own internal renderer? I don't think it's sitting there loading up Acrobat Reader for Linux for every thumbnail, somehow, which is apparently what Windows does. I think you might find that konqueror internally decides to use libpoppler, no matter what file is associated with PDF mimetypes (but I could be wrong there - google can be misleading). Thus, it's konqueror itself and it's built-in libraries that are doing the preview, not some random associated executable. Thus, new and "interesting" mimetypes don't execute even more external programs for no reason when you view them, they just don't have previews.

      Other file managers may differ.

    6. Re:Whoa by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Granted it's not loading up Adobe Reader (at least, we both hope it isn't, because that would be immensely stupid). It's still linking in another library, which was essentially what you were ranting against. If the library is buggy, you could introduce security holes.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    7. Re:Whoa by Rary · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Adobe advisory indicates that it affects all platforms, and others in this thread have also pointed it out (some with links).

      The second link in the summary also explains that the preview functionality is added through a shell extension installed by Adobe, as opposed to default Windows functionality, although obviously Windows provides the API to make it possible. Similar functionality exists in the Linux and OSX worlds.

      This is not the fault of bad Windows design. This is the fault of unnecessary preview functionality available on all systems (and not written by Microsoft), combined with yet another bloody buffer overflow (also not written by Microsoft).

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    8. Re:Whoa by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      ...and I don't know yea or nay, but the relevant question here is, does Konqueror allow installed applications to provide previews for "new" mimetypes? If the PDF preview library is "secure" and it's impossible to extend the preview feature to add libraries that preview new file types, then it's pretty secure. However, you've lost the flexibility of previewing new file types, probably unless someone updates Konqueror itself, since it doesn't trust your library.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    9. Re:Whoa by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Yes, but do other operating systems use an Adobe shell extension to preview the file, or do they use an internal library? If you open the file with Adobe Reader, then sure, you're at risk. However, if the Adobe shell extension is opening the file to create the preview, you can execute the payload just by opening the folder containing the malicious PDF, whereas if a library that doesn't have this security flaw is used to preview the file, you'd have to actually open the file in Adobe Reader before it could do its dirty work.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    10. Re:Whoa by maxume · · Score: 1

      The shell extension should be running with very limited rights (I can't really think of a reason that the shell extension should be able to write arbitrary data to disk, or execute an arbitrary process).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    11. Re:Whoa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you understand? It doesn't matter where the code that executes comes from. The problem can happen with any code that looks at an external file.

      If your PDF-thumbnail-rendering library has an exploitable bug in it, somebody can create a PDF that will exploit it and send it to you. And if you think your PDF-thumbnail-rendering library itself is secure, what about the libraries that it pulls in to do decompression, image decoding, rendering, and so on? A bug in your system's zlib library could make an exploitable hole in your PDF-thumbnail-renderer.

      dom

    12. Re:Whoa by jayp00001 · · Score: 1

      The software check you did in windows 3.1 is available in windows ( as well as with various 3rd party addins) Details on the native version can be found at http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457006.aspx

    13. Re:Whoa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note that the preview functionality in OS X is provided by the system (which has an internal PDF implementation ... try opening the PDF in Preview), and the preview functionality in Linux is provided by a library.
      Yes, it is the fault of bad Windows design, as well as bad application design. In OS X and Linux, the code that does PDF preview is extremely bare-bones without support for such 'features' as executable code. But it does the job.

    14. Re:Whoa by Rary · · Score: 1

      Note that the preview functionality in OS X is provided by the system (which has an internal PDF implementation ... try opening the PDF in Preview), and the preview functionality in Linux is provided by a library. Yes, it is the fault of bad Windows design, as well as bad application design. In OS X and Linux, the code that does PDF preview is extremely bare-bones without support for such 'features' as executable code. But it does the job.

      The vulnerability is the result of a buffer overflow. You don't need executable code in the document to fall prey to it. In this particular case, it is easier to exploit the vulnerability if you use scripting in the PDF, but not necessary. Nevertheless, if this particular shell extension does happen to also execute scripts in the PDF, that's still not Microsoft's fault, since they didn't write the shell extension.

      The libraries used by Linux and OSX are not immune to buffer overflows. If the libraries they use don't have this flaw, they still could, and it would be the fault of the library developers, not the developers of OSX and Linux.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    15. Re:Whoa by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Why? It's a trusted element of the operating system. Sandboxing it would be too much trouble.

      Oh wait, a buffer overflow? Shit...

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    16. Re:Whoa by RulerOf · · Score: 1

      Yes, but do other operating systems use an Adobe shell extension to preview the file, or do they use an internal library?

      I'm entirely certain that Windows would have built in PDF support if Adobe wouldn't drag Microsoft's ass into court over it... which is the reason I can't print to PDF in Office 2007 without downloading an extension.

      --
      Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
    17. Re:Whoa by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      I'm not commenting on whether an internal library would have been better/worse. I'm just pointing out that Adobe's library happens to have a buffer overflow exploit.

      Personally, I'd just assume use a PDF print driver over having individual applications support integrated print-to-PDF. That way, anything that can be put on paper can just as easily be made into a PDF.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    18. Re:Whoa by cstdenis · · Score: 1

      Those actions don't run the program. They load a dll provided by the program developer registered by the program's install program in the registry for whatever events they want to provide meta-data for. Most commonly adding items to the right-client item. It is loaded by Explorer so it runs in whatever security context that explorer instance runs in (which I think is the user in this case).

      This isn't really a security hole in windows. This is windows being modular and extendable. The problem is adobe (and many other developers) writing crappy dlls that are insecure and slow (lagging down explorer on every mouse-over or right click). Or adding these extensions to explorer for no good reason.

      --
      1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.
  12. Following to the MSDN by BuhDuh · · Score: 1

    article pointed me to [HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Folder\shellex\ColumnHandlers\{F9DB5320-233E-11D1-9F84-707F02C10627}] @="PDF Column Info"
    Hoping to mitigate the vulnerability, I deleted the key after exporting it. However it does not cure the idiocy of Adobe allowing executables in something supposed to simply describe a document.

    --
    Enlightenment? It's just a flush in the pan.
    1. Re:Following to the MSDN by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

      Not enough - if you click the file, and you have the Explorer status bar showing, it will call the PDF shell extension to fill the status bar details.

      so you probably need to do something with this as well:
      HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.pdf\ShellEx

    2. Re:Following to the MSDN by maxume · · Score: 1

      ShellExView makes it pretty easy:

      http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/shexview.html

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:Following to the MSDN by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      TFA's author suggests:

      This is probably the easiest way: Nirsoft has a Shell Extension manager
        http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/shexview.html

      Search for the PDF Shell Extension and disable it.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  13. Hold on by rockbottoms · · Score: 2, Funny

    My Adobe PDF is loading. I'll let you know if it's safe or not in about 5 minutes

  14. Workaround for Security Hole by Lothsahn · · Score: 0

    If you're like me and have full Adobe Acrobat installed (Sumatra doesn't fill your needs and you don't own Foxit), there's a very easy way to workaround this security hole until it is fixed. Go to the edit->preferences menu, go to "Javascript" in the menu and uncheck the box that says "Disable Javascript in Adobe"

    This should workaround the problem sufficiently until Adobe releases a patch.

    More information here:
    http://www.shadowserver.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Calendar.20090219

    --
    -=Lothsahn=-
    1. Re:Workaround for Security Hole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why in the world was this marked "Informative"??

      The three exploits that Didier shows in his blog do NOT use javascript!!!

      This "fix" won't work with these exploits.

    2. Re:Workaround for Security Hole by icydog · · Score: 1

      Sumatra doesn't fill your needs and you don't own Foxit

      Isn't Foxit free (as in beer) though?

    3. Re:Workaround for Security Hole by daveewart · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not '+1 Informative', this should be '+1 Misleading'. Disabling javascript is *not* sufficient to protect you against this exploit.

      --
      "If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it." --- Arthur Kasspe
    4. Re:Workaround for Security Hole by clone53421 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not correct.

      As to JavaScript, itâ(TM)s possible to exploit the /JBIG2Decode vulnerability without using JavaScript, and there are samples of this found in the wild.

      —here.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    5. Re:Workaround for Security Hole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mod parent up.
      Disabling javascript is *not* sufficient to protect you against this exploit!!

    6. Re:Workaround for Security Hole by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      It was originally Javascript thing which could be fixed just by disabling javascript.

      I think the person you replied to has good intentions and can't imagine the issue is that bad and fscking Adobe still wonders around without patching it.

      If it was a government created such a security issue for a country, they would resign.

    7. Re:Workaround for Security Hole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you give some more details? I've disabled JS in Acrobat and want to know how vulnerable I am.

    8. Re:Workaround for Security Hole by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Apparently it's a buffer overflow condition and it doesn't require scripting to cause it.

      Solution:

      1. If you haven't already, stop using IE. Use Firefox. (IE opens PDFs automatically and AFAIK there's no way to prevent this.)
      2. Disable the Adobe Reader plugin for Firefox (Tools, Add-ons, Plugins, Adobe Acrobat, Disable) so it won't open PDFs in the browser. Do not specify to open them with Adobe Reader by default, obviously.
      3. Disable the Adobe shell extension (http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/shexview.html is apparently the best way to do that) to prevent the no-click exploit.
      4. Don't open PDFs if they come from untrusted sources. If the shell extension is disabled, even if you download a malicious PDF, it won't be able to run its payload – unless you open it.

      Or, uninstall Acrobat Reader entirely and use something else.

      I'm pretty sure the no-click exploit in Explorer also wouldn't work if you close the "Details" panel, turn off file tooltips, and turn off the Status bar. I'd personally go the safe route and just disable the shell extension, though.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    9. Re:Workaround for Security Hole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you! I've posted your information for our employees. I only wish I had mod points ... +N insightful!

  15. Tin foil hat by mlwmohawk · · Score: 0, Troll

    I get alternately frustrated and paranoid about these sorts of things. How on earth can a DOCUMENT format have an exploitable code problem. How stupid do you have to be to create this monster.

    Then the paranoia sinks in. People can't be this stupid. Really, seriously?

    There are a lot of positives for "corporate amerika" (read anti-consumer) if we are all paranoid about our systems. if nothing is safe, you can bet someone will be trying to sell safety. In my best "tin foil hat" thinking, the people who perpetrate the insecurity in the first place and sell you additional safety, are not to be trusted.

    There are lots of examples of "corporate amerika" teaming up to get you. RIAA and MPIAA are the more slashdot recognizable. A little paranoia may be just good thinking.

    We need to remember that the computer is a revolutionary platform that continues to introduce disruptive innovations. "Corporate amerika" really really dislikes that which disturbs the status quo. The computer is too much of a money maker to destroy like they did DAT recorders. They are teaming up to make the computer more like a VCR or DVD player and less a platform of innovation.

    Linux and free software is a problem for them because they can't control it. All they can control are the avenues through which we use our computers. The media formats, the services, etc. are all ways to leverage "corporate amerika's" assets against everyone.

    I know this is all paranoia, but I don't think there needs to be an actual conspiracy for it to be true. "Corporate amerika" is anti-freedom, I think we can all agree that this is most always case. They don't have to intentionally work together, but a group entities with basically the same objectives may behave in concert toward an objective without conscienceless knowing it like a thousand ants from a single ant hill.

    1. Re:Tin foil hat by erroneus · · Score: 1

      One thing I can add is that we have seen far worse examples of direct attempts at subverting and compromising user/consumer computer systems with their software products in the past. If we have seen worse, it's a lot less unreasonable to guess that this sort of thing is intentional.

      Adobe PDF needs to be shunned in favor of open implementations just as MSIE is slowly being shunned in favor of Firefox.

  16. Buffer overflow - arbitrary code execution? Why? by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 1

    The problems is caused by a buffer overflow error in the program, which allows arbitrary code execution

    IMHO this is the real problem behind today's security problems on popular platforms: the quick progression from [simple programming error] to [malicious code can do whatever it wants].

    Perhaps a better solution would be to move to microkernel-based operating systems. These have a natural tendency to confine breakage to a small area. In contrast to popular systems, that behave more like a water balloon. Microkernels may have had a bad reputation in the past (slow performance), but nowadays that is neither true (see L4 for example), or relevant anymore (with GHz. machines being the norm). Reliable & secure software is what matters now.

  17. Why all the paranoia about executable code by gzipped_tar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One thing I don't understand is the seemingly common paranoia towards "executable code" in the discussions here.

    First, there's no fundamental difference between "code" and "data". It's all binary blob. The .text section in any of your ELF programs is understood as "executable code" by the interpreter (ld.so) but as plain document by objdump. The point is to always interpret the data as how it is intended to be used, and this is hard. This Adobe fiasco is caused by a buffer overflow in the program (which is not even in a function responsible for JavaScript). Buffer overflows are known to be useful for exploits because they allow an attacker to "cheat" the program so that it misinterprets what intended to be document data as executable code. It just happens that the flawed code can be attacked with greater rate of success using JavaScript. (According to this security advisory http://www.shadowserver.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Calendar.20090219)

    Second, embedding executable code in a document is not inherently evil or stupid. It's just an idea that can be either utilized or abused, varying from implementation to implementation. I don't like scripting in PDF either but not for the reason of its alleged insecure nature, but because it bloats the file format.

    Just my 2c..

    --
    Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
    1. Re:Why all the paranoia about executable code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Script code "bloats the format"? LOL...
      Have you actually SEEN PostScript?

    2. Re:Why all the paranoia about executable code by MrNemesis · · Score: 1

      One thing I don't understand is the seemingly common paranoia towards "executable code" in the discussions here.

      TBH, I think you're more in agreement with them than you think - people are up in arms about executable code in documents *because* it's often so poorly implemented and the parsers have problems with it, resulting in vuln after vuln. I'm not against executable code in documents myself, per se - but I'm wary of anything that makes extensive use of it simply because it's been such a huge attack vector on pretty much every major document format/app ever. Since it's Car Analogy Day I'll say it's a bit like people who say cars with electric motors are shit - it's not that they're a fundamentally bad idea in themselves, it's just that most people haven't got the technical details even mostly right yet.

      One thing I've been curious about - on x86, is it possible to use the NX flag for things like embedded code? Obviously it still needs the parser to correctly identify things like "bytes 10-452439 are data, 452440-456375 are code" or whatever but is there any reason it can't be implemented for run-of-the-mill document programs? Does anything implement it already?

      --
      Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
    3. Re:Why all the paranoia about executable code by mmontour · · Score: 1

      First, there's no fundamental difference between "code" and "data". It's all binary blob

      That's true on a von Neumann architecture. A Harvard architecture CPU (used in some microcontrollers) has a stricter separation between the two concepts.

    4. Re:Why all the paranoia about executable code by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Have you ever WRITTEN PostScript?

      Ok, that probably wasn't clear.

      Have you ever SEEN automatically-generated (e.g. DreamWeaver) HTML?
      Now, have you ever WRITTEN, by hand, HTML?

      Now do you see my point?

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    5. Re:Why all the paranoia about executable code by fl1ckmasterflex · · Score: 1

      One thing I've been curious about - on x86, is it possible to use the NX flag for things like embedded code?

      Huh? The NX flag is already used by all the modern operating systems. If you enable Data Execution Prevention on XPSP2+ , the OS will crash any app that tries to execute "data". (A simple Instruction pointer on heap check)

  18. Curse you, von Neumann! by dpbsmith · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I just don't get it. What exactly is so difficult about the concept of a file format containing data only, that is passively rendered by an application?

    In fact, wasn't passive rendering the whole reason from moving from PostScript to PDF?

    Is it that hard to review code and make sure that the interpretation of the format doesn't trigger any conditional branches that cause execution of anything but fixed, static, read-only code within the application? It seems to me you could use a modified version of one of the development tools used for embedded firmware development to guarantee that that's the case.

    Why are software writers so enamored of "extensible" schemes that depend on data being executed?

    I can see how executing data might have seemed like a cool concept in 1997, but this is 2009 and I don't want or need books in which monsters are capable of leaping out of the illustrations and grabbing me by the throat.

    1. Re:Curse you, von Neumann! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I just don't get it. What exactly is so difficult about the concept of a file format containing data only, that is passively rendered by an application?

      The post directly above this post responds so nicely to your post that I wanted to make sure you saw it.

    2. Re:Curse you, von Neumann! by Grail · · Score: 1

      PDF is to PostScript as ZIP (or tar | gzip) is to a file system.

      The reason for moving from PostScript to PDF is that when you give someone a PDF file, it's like giving them the source code for your program along with copies of all the exact versions of the libraries you compiled against.

      There is no such thing as "passive" rendering - PostScript is a programming language which is handled by an interpreter, and PostScript is used inside PDF documents to describe the actual contents. The closest I can think of to "passive" rendering is a bitmap image like GIF, which would never ever have a buffer overflow problem, would it?

      Even in the world of processing text files, there are still opportunities for problems - naive implementations of a CSV parser for example might not handle quotes and embedded commas the same way. This would result in data corruption. Even worse, if the naive implementation tries reading the columns into a particular fixed-size block of memory you could have overrun errors due to the assumption of strings being "small".

      Nothing that happens on a computer is "passive". It's all active, and involves interpretation of a sequence of numbers into some other sequence of numbers in video memory that just happens to look to humans like something to view or read. Along the way there are assumptions made, mistakes can happen, and even a CSV file can turn into a vector for attack.

  19. Do you know a good software for PDF highlighting? by tompiori · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Right now I have to use Adobe Acrobat Professional, because I have a TabletPC, and need from time to time to highlight, or annotate, PDFs. Do you know a better alternative? Thanks a lot

  20. Re:Buffer overflow - arbitrary code execution? Why by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How is a microkernel going to protect against a phenomenon that happens completely within userland?

  21. Code = OK, connect to outside = bad! by jonaskoelker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Executable code should not be embedded in documents

    Why not? Seriously, why not?

    The real problem, IMNSHO, is not that there's code, but that the code is allowed to do other things than to just compute stuff.

    I'm not really sure why you'd want documents to contain code, but I can imagine someone might want to say "the first 20 primes are 2, 3, ..." and have the computation done at "run"-time. Or at least, something else interesting that exceeds the capabilities of easily analyzable language classes (regular, context-free).

    The badness happens when document-embedded code can read my file system, write to my file system, run other programs that are outside its own sandbox, or talk to others via the network.

    (I think the Java security model tried to do approximately this.)

    As a way to attack parts of the problem, perhaps document readers should just run the format interpretation code in a process which drops all unnecessary capabilities?

    At least in principle, being able to compute doesn't mean being able to violate your security concerns.

    In haskell terms, none of the code inside a document should have the type `IO a', and then you'd be safe (assuming of course that unsafePerformIO and the like didn't exist).

  22. Re:Do you know a good software for PDF highlightin by sunami88 · · Score: 1

    As always, Foxit does all that stuff.

    Insert typical: it's also smaller, more efficient, free* and typically immune to these types of attacks.

    * Sure, theres a "pay" version, but the only thing I've ever noticed is when you add text to a pdf it puts a little "Edited using Foxit!" stamp on the top of the page. A small concession IMO.

    --
    Sex. Drugs, and Unix.
  23. Re:Do you know a good software for PDF highlightin by sunami88 · · Score: 1

    I know, I know, I just replied to myself, bad form. But I probably should've linked to the site for Foxit. Here's the download page.

    But ya, worth a try at least, it is free.

    --
    Sex. Drugs, and Unix.
  24. Great News by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    If they infect enough machines, perhaps something will finally be done about it.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  25. Note to Adobe, you don't need SAP for this by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

    As all companies in this economic disaster you will layoff people. I am sure you know which department to layoff and while on it, don't forget the OS X guys which manages to keep Debugger() symbols in World's most popular plugin, Flash.

    Yes OS X people and especially Webkit/Browser developers, that mysterious ''Debugger() was called!'' in system.log comes from Flash 10 plugin because idiots forgot to remove debug symbols! That is a bug which wasn't fixed for months and even in recent security update release of Flash wasn't used to fix it.

    Look to description: http://www.stinkbot.com/blog/archives/69

    We will end up with Silverlight and Document XPS or something from MS as result, that is what drives me nuts. We live same junk which almost made MS Wmedia standard in 1990s. History repeats itself.

  26. Only 32-bit systems are vulnerable? by dimension6 · · Score: 1

    Considering that Adobe still hasn't fixed the broken thumbnails in 64-bit environments (as of Acrobat 9 with current updates), this exploit seems to affect 32-bit systems. I haven't yet seen working .pdf thumbnails in 64-bit Vista (or Windows 7 Beta, for that matter).

  27. Re:Do you know a good software for PDF highlightin by clone53421 · · Score: 1

    Jarnal. It's a bit obtuse (you'll need to remove the default lined background, then open the PDF you're annotating as a background image – which does mean you can't edit the text, unfortunately), but then, it is free. It's done what I wanted, more or less.

    If all you want to do is highlight (there are several pen tools which can be used to highlight or draw) or annotate (there's also a text tool, which as I mentioned can't edit the existing text in the PDF), it'll probably be adequate.

    --
    Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  28. Re:Do you know a good software for PDF highlightin by B5_geek · · Score: 1

    E-Copy.

    It is not free, but it is an excellent work-flow tool (that uses PDF as the framework).

    --
    "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
  29. Re:Buffer overflow - arbitrary code execution? Why by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 1

    How is a microkernel going to protect against a phenomenon that happens completely within userland?

    • By making practically everything into userland, including hardware drivers, filesystems, GUI's, etc. In most OS'es that's a lot of code, and there are bugs and vulnerabilities in there too, you know.
    • By splitting software components that make up the whole of userland, in much smaller parts than in other popular operating systems, and most importantly:
    • By enforcing strict limitations on what each part can do. In a common OS, malicious code can do everything a normal user can do. In a microkernel OS, that part may have no disk access rights whatsover, and only permission to communicate with a small number of other components. Such restrictions can be enforced strongly, and everywhere throughout the system. That makes breakage much more a local event, with limited damage.
  30. All typesetters must be interpreters by ChrisA90278 · · Score: 1

    To all of those who don't think they want to see "executable code" in a PDF document....

    How else would you implement a typesetting language? There is a big problem with simple bitmapped fonts, they don't scale, no sharp edges unless the scale of the bitmap exactly matches the screen resolution. So we need __instructions__ on how to draw the characters. Also those instructions change if the characters is large or small relative to the screen resolution. You can't make goos looking documents without some kind of interpreter. All good typesetters are interpreter.

    That said you COULD make a safe interpreter by limiting what it has access to.
     

    1. Re:All typesetters must be interpreters by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      That said you COULD make a safe interpreter by limiting what it has access to.

      Until it overflows a buffer that you forgot to safeguard against overflows.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  31. Re:Buffer overflow - arbitrary code execution? Why by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 1

    By making practically everything into userland, including hardware drivers, filesystems, GUI's, etc. In most OS'es that's a lot of code, and there are bugs and vulnerabilities in there too, you know.

    Maybe so, but not relevant to the original topic which was buffer overflows in user applications.

    By enforcing strict limitations on what each part can do. In a common OS, malicious code can do everything a normal user can do. In a microkernel OS, that part may have no disk access rights whatsover, and only permission to communicate with a small number of other components. Such restrictions can be enforced strongly, and everywhere throughout the system. That makes breakage much more a local event, with limited damage.

    That doesn't really have anything to do with the kernel architecture. You're talking about a capabilites-based system, and/or splitting user apps into groups of sandboxed subprocesses, both of which can be done with or without a micorkernel. What you want requires rewriting all end-user applications from scratch, but it could be done with only minor modifications to standard kernels.

    Even Microsoft was able to introduce a limited form of that concept into Vista with their low-privileged IE sandbox.

  32. Re:Buffer overflow - arbitrary code execution? Why by V!NCENT · · Score: 1

    It's even more damaging as microkernel servers are run in userspace too.

    --
    Here be signatures
  33. I must have a special patched version. by The+Cisco+Kid · · Score: 1

    I can't seep to find this 'Windows Explorer Shell' thing in aptitude or synaptic.

    1. Re:I must have a special patched version. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      more like you have a "special" brain that misses relevant details from the article. Its OK though, mental retardation ins't life threatening...

  34. Re:Buffer overflow - arbitrary code execution? Why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    • By making practically everything into userland, including hardware drivers, filesystems, GUI's, etc. In most OS'es that's a lot of code, and there are bugs and vulnerabilities in there too, you know.
    • By splitting software components that make up the whole of userland, in much smaller parts than in other popular operating systems, and most importantly:

    Huh? So remove the existing split of user and kernel and then split it back up again? Are you high? Have you heard of Kernel Ring Levels? Come back after you've taken an intro course to OS design.

    • By enforcing strict limitations on what each part can do. In a common OS, malicious code can do everything a normal user can do. In a microkernel OS, that part may have no disk access rights whatsover, and only permission to communicate with a small number of other components. Such restrictions can be enforced strongly, and everywhere throughout the system. That makes breakage much more a local event, with limited damage.

    That sounds like more nonsense. You have no clue what the heck you're talking about. If you deny any rights to "malicious" code you deny the same rights to "regular" code.

  35. Tagging by smoker2 · · Score: 1

    Please tag either linux AND windows OR windows AND 0Sx, or whatever- thanks.

    you don't run the universe.

  36. really ? by smoker2 · · Score: 1

    I haven't had any issues yet but then again I'm running Fedora 4.

    It looks like a troll, but there are loads of "linux is fine" and "windows is ok if ..." comments.
    Fedora 4 using Xpdf or Gpdf is fine as far as I can tell. But then I don't expect to run a program when I open a document. If you need help just ask, really ...

  37. Excuse me ??? by smoker2 · · Score: 1

    Is this a windows targeted vulnerability , yet again ?

    I would have thought by now, that M$ would have noticed and fixed the issues so as not to be in the news so much. It's only been 15 years!

    1. Re:Excuse me ??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. It's an Adobe vulnerability.

      Adobe Reader on Windows has the vulnerability.
      Adobe Reader on Linux has the vulnerability.
      Foxit reader on Windows does not.
      Evince on Linux does not.

      Note: Adobe Reader includes several browser plugins, that are automatically installed without asking, and not exactly easy to get rid of.

  38. Doesn't bother me by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

    My Windows machine isn't capable of opening PDF files because Adobe Reader is bloated shit and I'm certainly not going to reconsider not after these events.

  39. The million dollar question.....feedback please by lamapper · · Score: 1

    The million dollar question, If I do NOT use Internet Explorer and I do NOT use Adobe Reader (or any software product that uses Adobes PDF implementation, thus allowing the problems to occur), will I still have this problem or not? (Perhaps someone could post the link to an example corrupted file on one of the security websites so that we can test it with the browser we use)

    If you are a web developer, make an alternative PDF formatted file available, if that even makes sense to do. Can you implement the PDF standard without implementing this feature that Adobe has added and Internet Explorer will NOT let you prevent?

    For the open source developers who are developing PDF solutions, this might be a feature best NOT to implement, what do you think? As any software that implements this feature (which is really NOT necessary) is inferior by design.

    Personally I would prefer that no solution that introduces proprietary bloat (whether registry BS, additional memory, additional resource usage on your system, active-anything that-I-can-not-turn-off, etc...) as most likely an open source alternative exists. And if it does not exist, creating an open source alternative that uses less memory, less system resources would be superior anyway.

    --
    Is your Internet Throttled? Install DD-Wrt, OpenWRT or Tomato to learn the truth! Google: 1Gbps/1Gbps: 5 Communities
  40. Adobe Reader is just the latest example. by jbn-o · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'll bet you're right: there's simply too much source code in a modern-day free software OS for any one user to inspect it all, much less change it to suit their needs. But to jump from this perfectly reasonable conclusion to rejecting the freedoms of free software is illogical, ignores the lessons of history, and is therefore most unwise.

    You're always better off with the freedoms of free software even if you don't leverage all of those freedoms yourself. This is one of the great differences between the "free software" movement and the "open source" movement: software freedom (what open source was designed to not talk about) is a good unto itself. I don't buy that the advantages of the open source development methodology are as uniform as I'd like because I know of plenty of programs licensed under OSI-approved licenses which are inferior to their proprietary alternatives or are simply poorly written in a way you can see without comparing to any other program. Instead I choose the software that respects my software freedom, even if it's not the most reliable or powerful, because I know if I need to inspect or improve that program myself, hire someone else to help me, or ask for help from the community I have the permission to do that. Proprietary software takes those possibilities off the table and leaves me to negotiate with a monopolist. Some proprietary software even denies me the freedom to run the program.

    I'm not interested in "OSS" and I've demonstrated my willingness to pay money for my software freedom if need be (unlike some who want free-as-in-cost software, I'm for commercial software development and distribution). I'm interested in the freedom which lets me control my computer to the limits of my efforts, and the freedom to share any improvements I want to share (even commercially). I'm interested in building and defending the community that comes from valuing software freedom for its own sake, so I'm a free software activist.