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DHS To Use Body Odor As a Lie Detector

The US Department of Homeland Security is studying lies, damned lies, and smells. They hope to prove that human body odor could be used to tell when people are lying. The department says they are already "conducting experiments in deceptive behavior and collecting human odor samples" and that the research it hopes to fund "will consist primarily of the analysis and study of the human odor samples collected to determine if a deception indicator can be found."

16 of 206 comments (clear)

  1. Best reply by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "I take the 5th amendment" or "I choose to remain silent"

    Don't give the government anything, else they will use it later to entrap you or jail you. The right to free speech also includes the right to be quiet.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    1. Re:Best reply by xelah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, okay, but here's the simple fact: DHS pulls aside for additional questioning or searches fewer than 10% of all passengers. If you don't want to be searched or questioned, simply don't give them a reason to do so.

      That may be OK individually, but generally (not just with smells and aeroplanes) it's a dangerous route to go down collectively. Only a few are questioned, so everyone tries to conform to what they think the authorities consider normal. So the authorities lower their thresholds and then everyone becomes even more conforming, etc. It leads to everyone 'self-censoring' their behaviour to some degree to please government and security guard's prejudices.....it's far better for people to feel secure against unreasonable harrassment. It's not that your suggestion is necessarily bad - but if you can be bothered with baking soda then you ought to also be bothered opposing it politically.

  2. A pack of dogs by mc1138 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just looking to smell the fear on you. Will it be able to tell if someone is actually lying or just really nervous that they're being questioned by a federal agency?

    1. Re:A pack of dogs by yttrstein · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It won't be able to reliably tell anything about anyone, except perhaps that they were a little bit nervous about something, just *exactly* the same way current lie detectors do.

      The problem with lie detection, as quite a number of people have said endlessly over the years, is that the assumption is made that a lie is something that somehow the body has a physiological problem with. Clearly this is swan songs of morality, as amorphous and dynamic as they are, being applied directly to the human nervous system, and somehow people are surprised to discover that there hasn't been a lie detector in the world that's been proven unquestionably to work at all.

  3. A little joke to make you think by fmachado · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Brazil and Argentina have historical disputes over who is the "best" on South America. Obviously it leads to some funny jokes on either side.

    One closely related to USA auto induced paranioa state of mind says that an "argentino" and a "brasileiro" found a lamp. The argentino rubbed the lamp first but the brasileiro hold the lamp for him to do it. A genius emerged and saw the problem immediately: he could not grant 3 wishes, one of them would get 2 wishes and other 1. So he granted 2 wishes, one for each of them. Since the argentino rubbed the lamp first, he wished a great wall would appear on all Argentina frontiers so they could be isolated from the bad interference of their neighbors, being Argentina the greatest nation of all. Wish granted, the genius made a wall one mile high around all Argentina. Next the genius asked the brazilian what was his wish. He asked the genius before anything if the Argentina's wall was really high and resistant. The genius answered that nothing could break that wall. The brasileiro asked immediately: fill it with water.

    USA is almost asking for problems when they think all the world want to attck them when USA is the most common attacker or influencer on all wars from World War II and later. They must take care with what they wish: it can be granted.

    Disclaimer: I'm brazilian, so the joke is biased.

  4. Beanz meanz fartz by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If they want odour, let them have it, full throttle. Eat chilli beans with garlic and cream cheese (or whatever supercharges your afterburner) a few hours before boarding a flight.
    "I fart in your general direction! In fact, I fart uncontrollably in all directions!"

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  5. Same as always by aepervius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Polygraph, and other assorted gadget do NOT detect lie. Ever. What they possibly detect is stress, (fear and its little cousin nervousness for example) which in some case may or may not be correlated to a lie. It is all based on putting the idea that "it works" in the mind of people it tests, and indeed sometimes law enforcement get confession from people (they CAN use the confession but may not use any lie detector crap, and recently even that was put under fire). There isn't really a good scientific background on it The Lie behind the lie detector.

    Using odor instead of breathing heart beat and so on will not bring anymore science is this than pissing into a violin and expecting a concerto.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:Same as always by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lie detectors of all types detect if you think you are lying and are stressed by this more than you were in the "control" part of the test ....

      So if a lie is detected you could be
          a) lying
          b) think you are lying, but mistaken
          c) more stressed for other reasons

      and if a lie is not detected you could be
          a) telling the truth
          b) think you are telling the truth, but mistaken
          c) as stressed for other reasons as in the control
          d) no worried that you are lying, and so not stressed
          e) using one of the anti-lie detector methods that have been shown to work ...

      Note an operator has to be trained to use a polygraph because they have to use subjective assessment to avoid false positives and negatives: i.e. the testing is a subjective opionion

      Most studies of lie detectors are done by lie detector manufacturers, and surprisingly they all seem to come to the conclusion they are reliable and foolproof

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    2. Re:Same as always by TheSpoom · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The DHS doesn't care. They just want a pseudoscience that can be used to detain people who don't do what they want.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    3. Re:Same as always by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If the suspect thinks it works, it mgiht be useful for that reason alone.

      Police put the words "He's lying" in a copy machine, and stuck a colander with some wires on a suspect's head, and pressed the copy button whenever they thought he was lying - and got him to confess!

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
  6. Re:detection speed by rabbitfood · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Depending on the sort of molecule they're sniffing for, and the detection method, traces in the parts-per-billion range can be detected almost instantly. The limitation is often the speed at which you can get a billion bits of air through your nozzle - or the wind-speed your detection method can withstand. Honeybees, for example, make good detectors in some circumstances, but get miffed in moderate breezes and refuse to work at all if you blow their antennae off.

    However, even if they have to parcel up the smells and post them to a lab in Wisconsin, it'll still be quicker and probably cheaper than six years in Cuba.

    As for usefulness, I don't think that's the point. It's not meant to be useful, it's meant to give the government a justification for the presumption of guilt. Although the Bill of Rights and the Majesty of the Law are worthy of respect, they are historical throwbacks that aren't always appropriate for a fast-changing world. Any device that can improve the efficiency of justice, even indirectly, must be welcomed by hard-pressed taxpayers.

  7. Re:Consumer version, please ... by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    99999 - "*I* *did* *not* *have* sexual relations with *that* *woman*!"

  8. Re:Should be cheap! by silentsteel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Um, no. Every creature on earth has an unique scent. Scent will actually come out of a human being, or other "game" in cone shaped form. This is why search and rescue units will work a patch of land moving in the expected cone shape (based on what the dog picks up) when trailing a victim in a search. I have done search and rescue and that is the logic they use because it works. The first thing they do when a new volunteer comes on is show them how it works. Tracking, what you were referring to, also uses the same concept but, with the individual scent being left by brushing against the ground itself.

    In a nutshell, this scares the hell out of me.

    --
    I cut it three times, and it's still too short.
  9. DHS has too much money by Intron · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If they have enough money to do this project, why haven't we cut their budget yet?

    --
    Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
  10. Re:Consumer version, please ... by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    99999 - "*I* *did* *not* *have* sexual relations with *that* *woman*!"

    So you think that Clinton's lie about a blowjob was more than 150 times as bad as Bush's lie about WMDs?

    Dear God.

    --
    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  11. Re:Consumer version, please ... by bdenton42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, yes it was. Clinton is smart and knew he was mincing words. Bush has never shown such adeptness and may have been completely clueless about it rather than deceptive.