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Utah Senate, House Pass Jack Thompson's Game Sales Bill

Ars Technica reports that the Utah State Senate and House have both passed Jack Thompson's proposed legislation that would stiffen penalties for the sale of M-rated games to minors. Oddly, on its trip through the state legislature, amendments rendered it largely ineffective; retailers are in the clear if the employee who sold the game goes through a training program, or if the minor misrepresents his age. It's also possible that the bill could cause some retailers to simply take down their ESRB-related advertising. Thompson's statements about the bill put the focus on advertising, but discussion on the Utah Senate floor had a familiar ring, touching on the story of a Grand Theft Auto player who killed two policemen in 2003. The ESRB wrote an open letter in opposition of the bill, saying it could undo the efforts they've made to popularize their rating system. The bill's sponsors fired back, questioning the industry's overall commitment to ratings, and now it awaits only the governor's signature before becoming law.

29 of 200 comments (clear)

  1. why are people... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    STILL listening to Jack Thompson? He's already been certified crazy, disbarred with extreme prejudice (out of a cannon, into the sun) and will probably never practice law ever again.

    Besides, we all know Jack Thompson died when Penny Arcade was honored by Washington.

    1. Re:why are people... by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Um, this is Utah.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:why are people... by besalope · · Score: 4, Funny

      Um, this is Utah.

      Yeah, silly AC thought the constituents of Utah were people.

    3. Re:why are people... by Ahnteis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Insightful?

      It's getting as bad as Digg around here.

      How about this: Politicians (UT or otherwise) are idiots who will do anything they *think* will make them popular. Right now fighting the evil scourge of video games is a popular choice.

      The fact that they're doing this all over the nation should teach us several things -- none of which is "Um, this is Utah."

  2. Jack Thompson by unlametheweak · · Score: 5, Funny

    Didn't Jack Thompson die?

    1. Re:Jack Thompson by FroBugg · · Score: 5, Informative

      He was disbarred, which is sort of like dying for a lawyer. But he's still out there, sort of an undead lawyer now.

    2. Re:Jack Thompson by davester666 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I always thought that you need to give up your soul and become undead to pass the bar.

      Being disbarred is kind of like being rejected by Satan...

      Note: IANAL :-0

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    3. Re:Jack Thompson by Gerzel · · Score: 5, Funny

      Undead Lawyer == Politician?

    4. Re:Jack Thompson by beav007 · · Score: 4, Funny

      He was disbarred, which is sort of like dying for a lawyer. But he's still out there, sort of an undead lawyer now.

      He still might be able to get a job with Morcombe, Slant and Honeyplace...

    5. Re:Jack Thompson by st0rmshad0w · · Score: 5, Funny

      Undead Lawyer == Politician?

      No worse, lobbyest, you can vote out politicians.

    6. Re:Jack Thompson by tftp · · Score: 4, Funny

      Didn't Jack Thompson die?

      It doesn't matter, Jack Thompson saves frequently.

    7. Re:Jack Thompson by DanielKerr · · Score: 5, Funny

      $ ps -A | grep "jack"
      4092 ? 00:27:00 jackd
      6248 ? 00:00:00 jackthompson
      $ kill -9 6248
      $ ps -A | grep "jack"
      4092 ? 00:27:00 jackd
      6248 ? 00:00:00 jackthompson

      :(

      --
      --Vector
  3. The gist by Shin-LaC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From skimming a selection of the linked sources, the gist is that they're using a false advertising angle: if a retailer says "we won't sell M-rated games to children" (like most do), and then sells them anyway, they will be fined; however, if a retailer makes no such claim, they'll be unaffected. So the safest choice for a retailer is to simply drop their voluntary policy not to sell M-rated games to minors, to avoid liability in case they ever make a mistake.

    1. Re:The gist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      From skimming a selection of this post:

    2. Re:The gist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Null reference exception.

    3. Re:The gist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

             

  4. GTA prevents cop kills by bugi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Only three GTA players have killed cops? GTA must make people less likely to kill cops. After all, think of all the killing of cops not associated with GTA players.

    Hmm, perhaps an occasional game of fake-blow-shit-up would make disaffected youths less likely to really-blow-shit-up? It is all about the kids, right?

    1. Re:GTA prevents cop kills by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ah, but what if those 3 players would not have otherwise killed cops?

      Catharsis is a myth; no research supports it. All we've ever learned from psychology research about violence is that it is largely a learned behavior. Kids will learn it mainly from family and friends but they also learn violence from strangers, TV, movies, music, and games. Now, violent media may not explain a lot of the variance in violent behaviors but it is completely naive to say that it does not have an affect. There are some people who can drink alcohol and never become alcoholic; there are others who try alcohol once and become alcoholic very quickly. It's the same with violence. Just because violent games may not generally lead to increased rates of violence in a society, does not mean that they don't for some people.

      I'm not calling for a censorship of violent games. I'm not even sure I like this legislation (I'd have to read the full bill to form a good opinion) and I'm certainly not in favor of a government doing the parenting that parents should do but kids don't need to be playing some of the games that they play.

  5. Friggin' Utah. by DurendalMac · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You couldn't pay me to live there. The funny thing is that I know some Mormons who feel the same way. I guess Utah Mormon is a bit of a different breed than Mormons from almost everywhere else. It must be the effect of any one group having a majority. They get to be assholes.

    1. Re:Friggin' Utah. by DurendalMac · · Score: 5, Funny

      Meh, only in southern Utah.

      Then again, there be lotsa slutty Mormon girls who will do everything but vag...

  6. Good use of public money by arekusu_ou · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I love how state after state try to pass this exact same bad law, only to have it shot down in the courts and they have to pay legal fines.
    Great to know they're doing something productive.

  7. Training programs? by Dogun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    'Training programs' sound like a money-maker for the videogame censorship movement.

  8. Re:Wow.... legislators in Utah by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is no different than the war waged by the religious fanatics (and yes, folks, Utah is filled with them) against fantasy roleplaying games. They latched on to something of an urban myth surrounding James Dallas Egbert III. Religious fanaticism, ignorance and intense dishonesty go hand in hand with these types.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  9. Revenge! by b4upoo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Picture the sales clerk saying OK kid! You must first misrepresent your age before I am allowed to sell you this game!

  10. Re:Wow.... legislators in Utah by British · · Score: 4, Funny

    How is some disillusioned kid thinking D&D is real any different than thinking someone can be crucified, rise from the dead & turn water into wine?

  11. Re:Come Again? by dosun88888 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fact that a law is unenforceable doesn't mean that it should be there on the books just for shits and giggles.

  12. Re:Wow.... legislators in Utah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...someone can be crucified, rise from the dead & turn water into wine?

    Wait, what does David Blaine have to do with any of this?

  13. No, Congress MUST ban this deadly chemical, DHMO! by Doug52392 · · Score: 4, Funny
    The US has banned numerous chemicals due to their deadly effects, but one chemical is in EVERY PERSON'S HOME! It's called Dihydrogen Monoxide, and it poses a substantial threat to everyone!

    Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) is a colorless and odorless chemical compound, also referred to by some as Dihydrogen Oxide, Hydrogen Hydroxide, Hydronium Hydroxide, or simply Hydric acid. Its basis is the highly reactive hydroxyl radical, a species shown to mutate DNA, denature proteins, disrupt cell membranes, and chemically alter critical neurotransmitters. The atomic components of DHMO are found in a number of caustic, explosive and poisonous compounds such as Sulfuric Acid, Nitroglycerine and Ethyl Alcohol.

    Each year, Dihydrogen Monoxide is a known causative component in many thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions of dollars in damage to property and the environment. Some of the known perils of Dihydrogen Monoxide are:
    • Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
    • Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
    • Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
    • DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
    • Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
    • Contributes to soil erosion.
    • Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
    • Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
    • Exposure decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes.
    • Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.
    • Given to vicious dogs involved in recent deadly attacks.
    • Often associated with killer cyclones in the U.S. Midwest and elsewhere, and in hurricanes including deadly storms in Florida, New Orleans and other areas of the southeastern U.S.
    • Thermal variations in DHMO are a suspected contributor to the El Nino weather effect.

    Not to mention the fact that DHMO can be connected to almost EVERY murder in the United States! All those people dead because someone was allowing this compound into his or her body.

    Just look at some of the uses this deadly chemical is used for:

    • as an industrial solvent and coolant,
    • in nuclear power plants,
    • by the U.S. Navy in the propulsion systems of some older vessels,
    • by elite athletes to improve performance,
    • in the production of Styrofoam,
    • in biological and chemical weapons manufacture,
    • in the development of genetically engineering crops and animals,
    • as a spray-on fire suppressant and retardant,
    • in so-called "family planning" or "reproductive health" clinics,
    • as a major ingredient in many home-brewed bombs,
    • as a byproduct of hydrocarbon combustion in furnaces and air conditioning compressor operation,
    • in cult rituals,
    • by the Church of Scientology on their members and their members' families (although surprisingly, many members recently have contacted DHMO.org to vehemently deny such use),
    • by both the KKK and the NAACP during rallies and marches,
    • by members of Congress who are under investigation for financial corruption and inappropriate IM behavior,
    • by the clientele at a number of bath houses in New York City and San Francisco,
    • historically, in Hitler's death camps in Nazi Germany, and in prisons in Turkey, Serbia, Croatia, Libya, Iraq and Iran,
    • in World War II prison camps in Japan, and in prisons in China, for various forms of torture,
    • during many recent religious and ethnic wars in the Middle East,
    • by many terrorist organizations including al Quaeda,
    • in community swimming pools to maintain chemical balance,
    • in day care centers, purportedly for sanitary purposes,
    • by software engineers, including those producing DICOM programmer APIs and other DICOM software tools,
    • by popular computer science professors,
    • by the semi-divine K
  14. Re:Wow.... legislators in Utah by nabsltd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They latched on to something of an urban myth surrounding James Dallas Egbert III.

    Egbert was pretty messed up long before fantasy roleplaying came along.

    Like many gamers, he was a very smart kid (he graduated high school at 14 or 15), and he really just wasn't ready for the real world. He was two years older than me, but 3-4 grades in front of me, so I didn't know him personally, but my parents knew his parents moderately well.

    The stories in the papers were pretty sensationalistic, because at the time, D&D was just really catching on, and (like you said) a lot of people wanted some ammo against it. Anybody who did any research would have known that he had been on thin ice for a long time, but nobody dug deeper and the lie the investigator told stood for years. Despite his book, nobody remembers the real story.