Slashdot Mirror
US Nuclear Sub Crashes Into US Navy Amphibious Vessel
Kugrian writes "Showing that it's not just the British and the French who have trouble seeing each other on the high seas, a US Nuclear submarine yesterday crashed into a US Navy heavy cruiser. The USS Hartford, a nuclear-powered attack submarine, was submerged as it crashed into the USS New Orleans in the strait of Hormuz, resulting in the spillage of 95,000 litres of diesel fuel. Both vessels were heading in the same direction when the collision occurred in the narrow strait and were subsequently heading to port for repairs. A spokesman for the 5th Fleet said that the USS Hartford suffered no damage to its nuclear propulsion system." According to the USS New Orleans' Wikipedia page, it's actually an amphibious transport dock.
I'm an ex-submariner who served with some of the guys on the Hartford (not my boat, but I went to school with them). This kind of thing is extremely unfortunate, and it really sucks for the whole community when accidents like this happen. I was relieved to find out that nobody was killed, and my thoughts are with the crew as they deal with this mess.
Yes, this is the result of human failure. That's not up for debate, and I'm not trying to excuse the mistakes that led up to this event. I'm trying to reinforce the idea that this kind of work is inherently dangerous, and that the men who serve on these vessels accept a lot of risk to do their jobs. Please consider this before launching an overly heated reply. Thank you.
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
The USS New Orleans isn't equipped with a sonar suite, perfecting underwater stealth technology sufficiently to hide from her isn't much of an accomplishment.
Just quit while you're behind
I believe that's fake, or at least drawn out since the dawn of time. http://www.snopes.com/military/lighthouse.asp Still amusing I guess.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_transport_dock
From the name, it sounded like the ship was actually "land and sea" capable. In fact, it ferries copters and truly amphibious vehicles close to shore. This is a ship only and does not appear to intentionally embrace the beach.
Live Long and Prosper - Thanks Leonard. You are missed.
Also, in the straits of Hormuz the water is sufficiently shallow that you don't get any thermal masking. While the 100,000 HP diesels aren't standard ICE motors (they are turbines), and surface ships do have significant noise masking technologies, the sub should have been able to hear them. Further, the transits are supposed to be coordinated and executed via preplanned-intended-movement (PIM) track. One of the skippers is going to get fired of this.
Now that we're done with the disclaimer, here's what I can say about your questions:
I hope these answers help give you an appreciation of the complexity of these operations. My initial reply was intended to get you to stop and think; sorry if I came across too hot. Thanks for your interest.
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
Both parties, actually. But the Sub will be held to a higher standard. Because the surface ship is expected to not see the boat.
30' below the surface isn't nearly far enough down to make the sub invisible, even at night. But, in general, we don't expect surface ships to see our subs unless they're snorkeling.
Two things:
New Orleans only has 40,000 HP engines.
The anechoic coating on a submarine makes it pretty hard to hear anything going on inside from the outside, and pretty hard to hear anything going on outside from the inside.
On the other hand, we usually expect the sonar guys to hear this sort of thing.
On the gripping hand, you won't be trailing your tail in the Straits of Hormuz, and aren't likely to hear something overhauling you until it gets really close. By which time dodging is impossible in restricted waters.
Probably. The real question in the business is who was overhauling, and who was being overhauled. There's no excuse for a sub bumping a diesel-powered LPD from behind. There's a lot more excuse for the boat being run over by the LPD in tight waters, which these were.
I should note that the last couple paragraphs of TFA were completely unnecessary, and serve no other purpose other than to contribute to anti-nuclear hysteria - the presence or absence of nuclear weapons had no effect on the collision between the French and Brit boats, and there was ZERO chance, even if both boats had been sunk by the collision (basically impossible unless both boats were running at flank speed, and damn unlikely even then), of any of the nuclear weapons on board being a "catastrophe narrowly averted".
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
From the hi-res pics published by the Navy, its seems the New Orleans struck the sail of the Hartford at an extreme angle (60-90 degrees) from the port side. The sail has been kinked by at least 10 degrees. Reports from the sub indicate an 82 degree roll was taken at the time of impact.
It's merely unfortunate.
95,000 liters is 95 cubic meters, which is less than 5 meters on a side. In the ocean, that counts as small. Very, very small.
(It is still not something that we should make happen everyday, but it isn't something to worry about when it only happens occasionally)
(Also, 95,000 gallons would still only be just over 7 cubic meters on a side)
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Current plans call for a fleet of 314 ships or so in a few years... up from our current fleet of 280.
The problem is that the number is a pipe dream because of rising costs. A number of new and current ship programs have simply gone off the rails in terms of costs, and the Navy is going to have to make some hard choices. All dollar figures below are referenced from the CBO when possible, and reputable news outlets otherwise.
The Littoral Combat Ship program; originally the Navy's "cheap" solution to getting more ships in the fleet, these controversial (lightly armed, aluminum hulls) have doubled in cost per unit, from $225 million apiece, to over $500 million per piece.
The Virginia Class Submarine; a "cheap" alternative to the $2 billion apiece Seawolf class, the Virginias... smaller, and less capable than the Seawolfs in most respects... are now even more expensive than the ships they replaced, at $2.3 billion a pop.
The Zumwalt Class Destroyer; the Navy's White Elephant. An all-things to all-people design with cutting edge tech in every nook and cranny, and the price tag shows... $7 billion per ship (that's per unit cost, folks, not including development costs). The Navy orginally wanted 7, canceled the program, and Congress is forcing them to build 2 anyway, and possibly 3. To put this price into perspective, these destroyers cost more apiece than a Nimitz class carrier.
The VH-71 Kestrel Helicopter; the Navy's replacement for the President's current Marine One fleet, the Kestrel is as effed-up a defense program as you'll ever find. It's basically a European helicopter built in America... except the prime contractor (excuse me, systems integrator), Lockheed Martin, has precisely zero experience building helicopters. After all of the subcontractor price markups, this helicopter now costs more per unit than Air Force one. That's a right, a helicopter that costs more than a tricked-out 747.
The Joint Strike Fighter; again, supposedly a "cheap" way to put airplanes on Navy and USMC decks, most realistic estimates put the cost for the Navy and USMC versions at over $100 million apiece and climbing. One CBO report claims the initial production run will be closer to $200 million apiece because of production line start-up costs. This for a plane that in many cases is inferior in some modes of performance to some of the planes it'll be replacing (the F-16, A-10, F/A-18C).
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Quiet diesels? Have you ever been in a diesel engine room? Evading submarines is also pretty low on the design priority for LPDs, as evidenced by the fact that they went with diesel engines over almost any other propulsion option. Diesel plants are many times noisier than gas turbine plants, and significantly louder than even a conventional steam plant. Amphibs still get diesel engines because they get good fuel economy compared to the other options.
Yeah:
Here's #1 and
#2 and
#3.
I'm not crazy,I'm actively irresponsible.