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FTC Warns Against Deceptive DRM

Jane Q. Public writes "At the Federal Trade Commission's Seattle conference on DRM, FTC Director Mary Engle started off by referencing the Sony rootkit debacle, and said that companies are going to have to get serious about disclosing DRM that may affect the usability of products. She also said that disclosure via the fine print in a EULA is not good enough, and 'If your advertising giveth and your EULA taketh away, don't be surprised if the FTC comes calling.' Transcripts and webcasts are available from the FTC website." Update 18:13 GMT by SM: as Jane Q. Public was nice enough to diplomatically point out, the webcasts are no longer functioning, but transcripts are still available.

42 of 159 comments (clear)

  1. Isn't all DRM Deceptive? by quangdog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is there any DRM that is not deceptive at some level? It seems that the makers try very hard to gloss over what the DRM actually does/restricts when they are trying to sell you their stuff.

    1. Re:Isn't all DRM Deceptive? by palegray.net · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Digital Rights Mismanagement

      Doesn't seem too deceptive to me, pretty descriptive actually.

    2. Re:Isn't all DRM Deceptive? by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Digital Rights Mauling

      as in the DRM software mauls your digital rights.

      --
      Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    3. Re:Isn't all DRM Deceptive? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Funny

      Digital Rights Mauling

      as in the DRM software mauls your digital rights.

      Ah, I thought that was when you make an unapproved use of the media and a bear comes and mauls you.

      That's about the only way DRM could be worse. On the plus side, that would totally get Colbert on our side of the fight.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    4. Re:Isn't all DRM Deceptive? by corsec67 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Digital Restrictions Management.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
    5. Re:Isn't all DRM Deceptive? by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course DRM is deceptive since it's impossible to design "good" DRM. This is the four factor test for fair use:

      1. What is the character of the use?
      2. What is the nature of the work to be used?
      3. How much of the work will you use?
      4. What effect would this use have on the market for the original or for permissions if the use were widespread?

      DRM does not know the character of use, because you can copy the whole by parts it does not know how much you'll use and finally it has no way of determining the market impact of your use. It's not in any way possible to make DRM that could support fair use. So you can err on the side of the consumer or the copyright holder, and erring on the side of the consumer was the old way - no DRM, but if you did something that was not fair use they could take you to court. The other is to err on the side of the copyright holder, disallowing any use that might be used for nefarious purposes. That means blocking you from doing many things that you want and that would be fair, because a machine could never make that determination and even if it could, what you use it for can only be determined after the fact. Designing "good" DRM is therefore a theoretical impossibility.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    6. Re:Isn't all DRM Deceptive? by ameyer17 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Fair Use Circumvention Kit?

      Acronym's so much better.
      "I got FUCKed when Microsoft shut down their FUCK servers."

    7. Re:Isn't all DRM Deceptive? by Locklin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1: DRM has nothing to do with Rights. It can enforce restrictions that are, or are not covered by copyright equally well.

      2: The software is being used(run) by customers, not publishers. Therefore, the software is restricting it's user.

      --
      "Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
    8. Re:Isn't all DRM Deceptive? by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well in fact the use of it is a complete lie. DRM attempts post sale theft from the consumer. Any attempt of DRM that is used has to be made clear at the point of purchase. Any attempt by any DRM device that attempts to damage or impinge upon the use of devices owned by the consumer is in fact a criminal act under numerous cyber crime laws, where said actions where carried out with out the consumers fore knowledge "prior' to purchase.

      So in reality as it is currently being used DRI is more appropriate, as it is digital rights infringement.

      Unless it is clearly stated at the point of purchase, what damage the content I am purchasing will do to devices upon which I install that content, including spinning up of CD-DVD drives - basically unfair wear and tear, forced online registration - theft of internet bandwidth, theft of rights of resale - limited number of installs, installation of undesired software - theft of hard disk storage space, loss of computer performance - unwanted drivers making use of CPU cycles, you are stealing from me.

      I assure you whether you steal a little bit from everyone or a lot from just a few people you are still a crook, a pirate stealing what does not belong them, a criminal waiting to be prosecuted for stealing from millions of people. So get your legal facts straight and learn to recognise who the real criminals are for a start it is not the customers who buy you content.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  2. Does this have anything to do with... by MrEricSir · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...when a certain US president accidentally bought some region 1 DVDs for a certain UK prime minister?

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    1. Re:Does this have anything to do with... by flaming+error · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mod parent up.

      Awhile back I was trying to explain to a stickler-for-the-rules nothing-to-hide trust-the-system colleague why dvd regions were stupid. He didn't see the problem. Until he brought back some DVDs from overseas.

      If our heads of state and legislators actually experienced DRM for themselves, DRMs days would probably be numbered.

    2. Re:Does this have anything to do with... by Chyeld · · Score: 4, Informative

      The ironic thing here is that while it is also something of an attack on the consumer, region locking is a completely seperate issue from DRM.

      Region Locking = You can only use content on devices sold in or for the same region you purchased the content in.

      DRM = You can only use content if you agree to give up certain rights you otherwise had and agree to allow the company selling the content to place technological locks in place on your property to ensure your compliance.

    3. Re:Does this have anything to do with... by Ihmhi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Perhaps we should go buy a particularly popular film on DVD - say, Bolt - but get it in a region that won't work in the States. Then give it out as a gift to Senators.

      Could put a little note in there that says, "If there's any problems with getting this DVD to play, please go to [website]" where we'll have info on how regions work and why that new movie won't play for them.

    4. Re:Does this have anything to do with... by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Region Locking may have more of an effect than you think. It prevents us (in North America) from even considering buying, for example, a Japanese or European video. Like Anime? Want to see the original Japanese cut of "Ghost in the Machine"? You're going to be hard put to find it in any shop in your city. Your only real choices are:
      1. obtain a bootleg copy,
      2. Buy it Direct from Japan -- which would also require a Japanese-region DVD player.

      Thus it is that most people don't even think about option 2, unless they're seriously considering building a large library of Japanese video...

      The effective result is that most people don't even consider option 2. Either they get a bootleg copy, find (and limit themselves to) americanized version of foreign movies or they forget about buying foreign DVDs altogether.

      In terms of cross-culture polination, it simply sucks.

      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  3. Be 0wnz0r3d by DVD by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    'If your advertising giveth and your EULA taketh away, don't be surprised if the FTC comes calling.'

    Does this include, "Own it on DVD"?

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    1. Re:Be 0wnz0r3d by DVD by Belial6 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Please let it include "Own it on DVD". I can accept the idea that I only "Own" that one copy, but watching commercials telling me that I can "Own" a movie, then listening to MAFIA agent and those that believe them, explain how I don't own the movie, but only "licensed" it, just grates my hide.

  4. Well, well. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm absolutely delighted to have the FTC's assurance that regulatory capture could never ever happen to them.

    In fact, I would argue, it already has. Let's be real clear here: what Sony, for instance, did with their rootkit was a crime. If I had done it, I'd probably still be sharing a cell with Bubba. Because it was done by a corporation, under a layer of legalistic obfuscation, to "consumers" it was treated as a fairly minor civil matter. Sony handed over some money, offered to replace a few CDs, and mumbled something about being sorry if anybody was offended. Pathetic.

    1. Re:Well, well. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Gangs are also imaginary beings and somehow we manage to work past that and charge the humans inside them. One or more people inside Sony decided that criminal conduct was a good idea; they should be rotting in jail. If we actually cared, we could certainly do this(probably more easily, in fact, since gangs probably have worse email retention than corporations).

    2. Re:Well, well. by Anonymusing · · Score: 2, Funny

      If I had done it, I'd probably still be sharing a cell with Bubba.

      "still"?

      How is Bubba doing these days, anyway?

      --
      Liberal? Conservative? Compare perspectives at Left-Right
    3. Re:Well, well. by swb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What needs to happen is that the chief officer of a company or the chair of the board needs to be the one that is physically accountable should the corporation be convicted of a crime. "I didn't know" or "they didn't tell me" won't be excuses for lack of oversight or management involvement.

      I can guarantee you that should highly placed corporate officers be held personally accountable for criminal actions of the corporation they WILL get involved enough to ensure it doesn't happen.

    4. Re:Well, well. by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So you are saying if I put code in my next software release that opens up a hole into your computer for me, the CEO should go to jail?

      That doesn't seem right.
      The level of involvement they would need would stifle all production.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:Well, well. by Manchot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Since people are so big on having corporations having the same rights as people, I would love to have a justice system that actually treats them equivalently. Did a corporation knowingly break the law? If so, send it to "prison:" revoke its corporate charter for a certain period of time, and prevent it from doing business. Better yet, force it to make license plates for the state.

    6. Re:Well, well. by MasterOfMagic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That must be why the drug cartel leaders personally escort the drugs across borders because they don't care about being shielded from the responsibility for their actions.

      Of course gangs are specifically designed to insulate those at the top from legal responsibility for their actions. That's why there are drug mules that carry the drugs, a chain of intermediaries that carry orders (assumed to be from their boss, but can't be proven legally) to the people executing them. The whole point of being a higher-up a well-run gang is that the people below you get busted and you escape being charged.

  5. Re:SLASHDOT IS BROKEN by al0ha · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Uh - your complaint is what the Bugs link is for, nobody from /. is going to read it here.

    --
    Did you ever wake up in the morning, with a Zombie Woof behind your eyes? -- FZ
  6. Make sure to complain to the FTC by Samschnooks · · Score: 4, Informative
    I once was at a seminar where an attorney from the FTC was there. To make a long story short, it takes quite a bit of complaints before the FTC takes action. So, if anyone comes across a deceptive DRM, file a complaint with the FTC and then submit an article here on Slashdot and everywhere else you think folks would be interested, and tell them about it.

    The FTC won't act unless they know about it and if it's affecting a lot of people.

    Notice how those small time telemarketers who violate the Do Not Call List never seem to get caught even when you file complaint after complaint with the FTC; whereas, the big corps who do it are caught and paraded around the media?

    1. Re:Make sure to complain to the FTC by MrEricSir · · Score: 4, Informative
      --
      There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
  7. TO READERS by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Slashdot editors chose to change my article to state that webcasts are available at the FTC site. They are not. There were live webcasts but (at least on my Mac) the links only worked when the talks were live.

    So if you try to access the webcasts and it doesn't work, please don't blame me. The editors wrote that in.

  8. FTC Comes a Callin' by davegravy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    don't be surprised if the FTC comes calling.

    Sony: "Hello?"

    FTC: "Hi, this is the FTC, you have some deceptive DRM in your latest product"

    Sony: "Oh?"

    FTC: "Yeah, so we're just calling to let you know"

    Sony: "I'm not surprised that you're calling"

    FTC: "Wonderful. Have a good day, sir. Goodbye."

    1. Re:FTC Comes a Callin' by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sony: "I'm not surprised that you're calling"

      ITYM Sony: "We'll send someone over right away with a big bag of money and a van full of hookers and blow."

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:FTC Comes a Callin' by langelgjm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except instead of the FTC, it's the Minerals Management Service, and it actually happened.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
  9. about. darn. time. by swschrad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    they should require a prominent logo of a broken CD if DRM is in use.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  10. Punishing corporations by qbzzt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem appears to be that corporations being imaginary beings and not physical are rather hard to put in a jail.

    Put the highest level manager who cannot produce written proof this was ordered by somebody higher up the chain in jail. Next time, the CYA chain will go all the way to the CEO.

    --
    -- Support a free market in the field of government
    1. Re:Punishing corporations by qbzzt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So line managers will have to decide between risking their jobs and risking jail time. It sucks for them, but it will reduce the chance of corporations performing crimes.

      --
      -- Support a free market in the field of government
  11. Sounds great! by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So when are they going to kick the arse of all the movie studios?

    They advertise "OWN IT TODAY" on all their dvd releases. Yet they claim in courts and elsewhere that you dont own anything but are merely licensing it.

    I want them forced to advertise "Get your limited, conditional and revokeable without warning license to view it today!"

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Sounds great! by je+ne+sais+quoi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Mod parent up! Along with the own it/license it false advertising, the entire current format for blu-ray media discs needs to scrapped, along with HDCP. The blu-ray java engine just means I need to run windows to play blu-ray discs as they should be and the HDCP means that I can't play my legally purchased discs using my legally purchased blu-ray disc drive except at a crummy resolution. I need to break the law and remove the copy protection just to view them. I would say this is a huge joke, but at $30 a disc, it isn't funny.

      --
      Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
    2. Re:Sounds great! by MasterOfMagic · · Score: 3, Informative

      The flag is called the Image Constraint Token. It is in the standard, but the studios were holding off using it. However, my upscaling DVD changer from Sony(!) refuses to upscale DVDs with CSS except over HDMI with HDCP. Connected only with component video, it only acts as a progressive scan DVD player.

  12. Region locking by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the only difference is, is that it doesn't affects as many people since not too many import videos or go overseas

    Region-locking affects millions of people every day, because it is a barrier to open competition in the markets and allows charging different rates for the same product via artificial means. Perhaps those in the US may be less aware of this because they tend to get things first/cheapest, but don't tell anyone from, say, Europe or Australia that.

    Now, I'm not saying a company shouldn't be free to sell a product in one country at one price and in another country at another price. Sometimes, this may be justified, for example if the costs of manufacture/transportation are different in the two cases.

    However, blocking someone who is willing to buy where the price is lower and deal with any extra logistics themselves has no ethical or legitimate commercial basis. It doesn't even have an economic argument like copyright, unless you believe in protectionism. So why should the law say that anyone who circumvents such provisions is wrong?

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:Region locking by Chyeld · · Score: 4, Informative

      The thing about region locking is

      A: It's trivial in most cases to get around
      B: It actually serves a purpose, just not one that is immediately appearent to the consumer.

      In most cases, region locking is used for one and only one purpose, to allow a producer to find a distributor who is willing to sell the product in a specific region. Very few (if any) companies do their own worldwide distribution. Distributors want exclusivity in a region, and they have good reason for this. No one wants to sign a deal to distribute your product for $X if the guy next door is doing it for 1/2 $X because their area is too poor to be willing to pay $X.

      Because you know what'll happen? Your 'official' distributor will get his lunch eaten by a mob of opportunists who buy the product next door in mass quanities and then sell it in his area.

      And they'll be selling it not for 1/2 $X but $X minus a couple of cents, since they know the folk in his area are willing to pay more.

      Now that's not a defense for region locking as much as the reason why it exists. But frankly I'm alot more tolerant of DVD's that need a region unlocked player than I am of DVD's that require I uninstall programs from my machine and will only install three times before I have to jump through hoops with customer service.

    2. Re:Region locking by AtomicJake · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I call BS. There are many items (and media items) available without region locking and different pricing in different regions - and surprisingly this is working.

      Now, region locks have been invented to bring the movie in one region (US) to cinema, but follow the other regions only 6 months after. What, if those people could get the DVD before the official cinema release? So, in order to support their broken business model, the studios required region codes.

      BTW: I don't own DVDs for exactly those region codes. I know that breaking them is trivial. But why the heck can I only use a tool (DVD player) after hacking it? And then there are those great countries that made it even illegal (that's actually the real joke here).

    3. Re:Region locking by Bert64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The ability of people worldwide to communicate over the Internet is making this model even more broken...
      If they release a movie 6 months earlier in one region than another and it's lousy, the word soon spreads.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    4. Re:Region locking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because you know what'll happen? Your 'official' distributor will get his lunch eaten by a mob of opportunists who buy the product next door in mass quanities and then sell it in his area.

      And they'll be selling it not for 1/2 $X but $X minus a couple of cents, since they know the folk in his area are willing to pay more.

      So? Why should corporations be the only ones to get the benefits of globalization? If they want cheap labor, I want cheap goods.

  13. Re:about. darn. time. by AndrewNeo · · Score: 3, Funny

    Or they could just put physically broken discs in the cases, and be done with it when you open the case.