Slashdot Mirror


Game Companies Face Hard Economic Choices

Hugh Pickens writes "The NY Times reports that the proliferation of free or low-cost games on the Web and for phones limits how high the major game publishers can set prices, so makers are sometimes unable to charge enough to cover the cost of producing titles. The cost of making a game for the previous generation of machines was about $10 million, not including marketing. The cost of a game for the latest consoles is over twice that — $25 million is typical, and it can be much more. Reggie Fils-Aime, chief marketing officer for Nintendo of America, says publishers of games for its Wii console need to sell one million units of a game to turn a profit, but the majority of games, analysts said, sell no more than 150,000 copies. Developers would like to raise prices to cover development costs, but Mike McGarvey, former chief executive of Eidos and now an executive with OnLive, says that consumers have been looking at console games and saying, 'This is too expensive and there are too many choices.' Since makers cannot charge enough or sell enough games to cover the cost of producing most titles, video game makers have to hope for a blockbuster. 'The model as it exists is dying,' says McGarvey." As we discussed recently, OnLive is trying to change that by moving a big portion of the hardware requirements to the cloud. Of course, many doubt that such a task can be accomplished in a way that doesn't severely degrade gameplay, but it now appears that Sony is working on something similar as well.

30 of 511 comments (clear)

  1. am i missing something? by theheadlessrabbit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    am i missing something, or is the answer to this 'crisis' painfully obvious to everyone?

    stop making these huge, expensive games.
    go back to making small, experimental fun games.

    it seems so simple.

    every game should be a new experience, or at least bring something new to the table. adding a few more polygons, and some better shading algorithms does not make a game more fun.

    --
    -I only code in BASIC.-
    1. Re:am i missing something? by interkin3tic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      stop making these huge, expensive games.
      go back to making small, experimental fun games.

      it seems so simple.

      I agree, you'd think that with the new controller and the lower graphical capabilities, game devs would have thought "well, all we can do with this is make something new and innovative, rather than doing the same thing we did last year with prettier graphics. Spend less money, but put a little more thought into it."

      Most instead went with the tactic of "Lets put out games we already made for older systems with only the control scheme changed.

      When we run out of old games, we'll just

      1. slap something together in 2 hours that will hardly be playable
      2. come up with a silly title like 'ninjabread man'
      3. ??? maybe hope that enough people will accidentally buy our game instead of another game that...
      4. Profit"

      It's not like there's a shortage of good ideas for games on the wii, I honestly don't know why game makers are so resistant to new ideas when their current strategies aren't working.

    2. Re:am i missing something? by D-Cypell · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I am not a expert on the process of game development, but it is possible that what you propose would actually be *more* expensive. If the games companies can reuse their research, graphics libraries and game engine software and use it to produce a multitude of similar games that presumably saves money. If they have to re-design, re-draw and re-engineer every title they produce I would think that would be the more expensive option.

      How many sequels to the final fantasy series have their been now?

    3. Re:am i missing something? by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's the Hollywood blockbuster syndrome. Everyone spends a ton of money on big name titles, and the majority of them lose money or barely break even. A tiny number actually do make money, so people keep trying.

    4. Re:am i missing something? by fractoid · · Score: 4, Funny

      I thought it was more along the lines of:
      1) Woo venture capitalists for funding for a huge, AAA game. Talk lots about the AAA games that make money.
      2) Pay yourself and your friends sh*tloads of money because you're awesomesauce producers working on producing a AAA game.
      3a) Spend all your venture capital on (2), and on flying yourself and friends around the world to industry expos.
      3b) Set crazy deadlines because only 1/3 of your capital is going towards the actual development of the game.
      4) Step back, let the company fold, and leave with your 3 years' worth of executive salary. Blame everyone else for the game's failure.

      I'm still trying to figure out whether 3a or 4 is the '???'.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    5. Re:am i missing something? by Toonol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know, ChronoTrigger on the SNES had a budget probably 1% of Final Fantasy 12, and yet has just (or more) as epic story and gameplay that you can lose yourself into for many dozens of hours. Gameplay and quality storelines don't require massive budgets for CGI, and inexpensive games don't need to be simple fluff.

    6. Re:am i missing something? by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's he same dilemma that faces Hollywood.

      Yes they could develop small well-written movies, but they want to reach every idiot in the world, so they dumb-down the plot and boost-up the special defects. The game business has evolved into that same deadend. (sigh). Gaming was so much better in the 1980s when the graphics were primitive, therefore it forced programmers to focus on the fun. We got all kinds of off-the-wall ideas. Same with Hollywood, where you will find better movies in the "experimental" era of the 1920s and 30s.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  2. $25 million? by OverlordQ · · Score: 4, Informative

    It takes $25 million to take the exact same game, shine it up a bit and put a new cover on it and expect people to shell out $60 for it?

    Maybe spend some of that on coming up with something new.

    --
    Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
  3. Re:This is easy to fix: by interkin3tic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Exactly

    Reggie Fils-Aime, chief marketing officer for Nintendo of America, says publishers of games for its Wii console need to sell one million units of a game to turn a profit, but the majority of games, analysts said, sell no more than 150,000 copies.

    That's because the majority of wii games are shit that SHOULDN'T turn a profit. Why people aren't changing that I don't know. It seems to me that if you put out a crappy game for the wii and it sells crappy, that might tell you something.

    (Hint: put out a good game for the wii for good sales)

  4. Hollywood Business Model by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I worked at Atari/Infogrames, it was all about convergence with the Hollywood business model. Everyone was running around spending money like a Hollywood mogul. Takes only a few flops (*cough* Enter The Matrix *cough*) to send your business model into the crapper.

  5. The answer isn't more marketing nonsense... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's true that the cost of game development is significant, and growing all the time. The answer isn't to flail desperately at the latest fad or wow potential customers with marketspeak, though. Here are a few suggestions:

    1) Focus on quality instead of marketing hype. If a project isn't coming together, it's better to cut your losses than to shove a piece of garbage out the door and lose the confidence of your customers.

    2) Develop your code with reuseability and extensibility in mind. Never accept quick hacks or shoddy workmanship. It never pays off in the long run. Also: quick hacks for funding milestones = long-term disaster.

    3) Don't work your employees insane hours at crunch-time. You'll just lose the best ones after the project is over. Treat them with respect, pay them decently, and give them a stake in the financial success of the company.

    4) Invest in internal tool and systems development. It's a longer-term payoff, but high-quality internal tools allow a small team to do what otherwise requires a small army to accomplish.

    5) Betting on safe and sure things is a surefire road to stagnation and failure. You can't be afraid to shake up the status-quo and innovate. There's nothing wrong with sequels per se, as fans of your first are likely expecting a second (I'm working on one now), but you can't just remake the same game and expect everyone to buy it a second time.

    Pretty boring list, huh? But I'd bet 9 out of 10 companies probably don't really follow this advice. It's sort of like advice on how to lose weight: eat healthy and exercise regularly. Stupid and simple, but it's just to tempting to take the easy road.

    The game development company I work for seems to be adhering to these principles pretty well, and is hiring developers while other companies in the area are laying employees off. We'll see if it pays off in the long run.

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    1. Re:The answer isn't more marketing nonsense... by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you don't work them insane hours at crunch-time, then the game doesn't get out of the door.

      Or you could try realistic planning and scheduling.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  6. Return to 1993 by Spy+Handler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Best game I ever played was X-com UFO defense, circa 1993. It featured 320x240 (256 color) VGA graphics and mono sound. I don't know how many people were on the development team or what the budget was, but I'll bet it's not a lot.

    Gameplay is everything. None of the $25 million-budget modern games can touch the X-com in game quality and sheer fun IMO.

    But I guess console games today do cost tens of millions of dollars to develop... if cheap iphone games are putting the big studios out of business, I don't mind. Lots of little guys putting out lots of little games = more chances for a true gem to come out, as opposed to fewer megaexpensive titles by a handful of big companies.

    BTW X-com would probably work just fine on a iphone, which has twice the screen resolution of the original game (!)

  7. The vapor cloud by Animats · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And how, exactly, is moving part of the compute load to the "cloud" supposed to reduce development costs?

    OnLive is amusing. The technology isn't that interesting; it's the business model. Casual games can have a "console-like experience". It also has the ultimate answer to piracy. Since the game software runs entirely in OnLive's data center, there's nothing playable the end user can copy. The OnLive client is just a video player.

    But they need an incredibly good bandwidth/latency combination to make it work. They need 5mb/s with under 20ms or so round trip delay to equal the console experience. Unless they have a data center at each cable headend, they're not going to be able to deliver that.

    Worse, all the capital costs fall on the provider. Who's going to fund this thing?

    1. Re:The vapor cloud by skrolle2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, the technical part of OnLive on a small scale isn't that impossible, you could imagine that if your ISP hosted some OnLive servers close to you, you'd get a pretty ok experience.

      No, the thing that makes OnLive completely ridiculous is the economy of it. They're promising the latest games, that require the best gaming-specific hardware. So how is their datacenter going to cope with 1000 people playing Crysis at the same time? Are they virtualizing the games? I could imagine that for lesser games that can be entirely CPU-rendered, but you can't use the CPU for modern games, you need a GPU. Or two. Have they found a way to virtualize that? Or do they have multiple GPUs per server? How the hell are they gonna cool it and power it? And how are they gonna afford it? How could it possibly be cheaper to buy and host and manage a server that can serve, say, 10 players at the same time, than for those 10 players to just go to a store and pick up a game console each?

      Console hardware is dirt cheap and has really good price/performance. Server hardware is very expensive, and has really bad price/performance. And on top of that, you need server hardware for the overhead of virtualizing, and you need server hardware for the video encoding.

      And then, assuming they could magically assemble this hardware for a price that is competitive with cheap consoles, they choose to do GAMES with it? I could think of dozens of other uses for hardware like this, and games is way, way down on the list.

      No, this whole thing smells fishy...

    2. Re:The vapor cloud by Toonol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, I think it's completely a pump-and-dump scheme to bilk gullible investors. Gamers get irritated if the LCD has a slow refresh rate; they aren't going to settle for the lag between client and server and back, plus frame encoding time... that's going to be over 100ms in almost every case, often over 200. That's eliminates all action games from the mix, and action games are the ones that require the high-end machines they're claiming to have or emulate.

      Plus, who is their audience? People with old and clunky pc systems, who have blazing fast internet connections? There's not a whole lot of overlap, there.

  8. Nothing ever changes by rossz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Every few years the game industry goes through a big shake up. Companies die, people lose their jobs. Then it starts all over. I worked on games way back in the Sega Genesis cartridge days (yes, I'm that old). When my job disappeared I chose to get out of the game industry entirely. The pay seems ok on the surface, but you work horribly long hours, so you're actually getting ripped off. The games always suck at the beginning. The physics are experimental, the graphics are blocks and circles, the story line is just a twinkle in someone's eye. By the time the game is even half completed you are so sick of playing it you want to scream. I bet the industry hasn't changed since my days in it.

    --
    -- Will program for bandwidth
  9. Where does the money come from? by squoozer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I read articles like this (well the summary anyway) and I am always left wondering where the money to produce these games comes from. The companies are saying that to break even they need to sell a million copies but they are typically selling 150k so therefore they are making a huge loss on every game. How do they stay in business? The console manufacturers can't be bailing them out as they are making a loss on each piece of hardware so they need to make their money from games sales so who is paying? I can only assume that when a company gets a blockbuster it makes so much money that all these total failures (from a business point of view) are paid for.

    --
    I used to have a better sig but it broke.
  10. The solution is 2D games by cliffski · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The solution is 2D games

    Seriously.
    The obsession with 3D pushes every cost through the roof. 2D artwork (in a lot of cases) is tons cheaper, and can be made to work on very low end machines. Good luck getting crysis to run on a laptop that didn't cost an arm and a leg, but it's very difficult to balls up a 2D game enough for it not to run on an integrated chipset.

    The crysis devs even admitted that their main problem was a game that wouldn't run on so many PCs. 2D games not only run everywhere, but they are easier to understand from a control POV to newcomers to gaming.
    They also reduce support costs a lot because if you aren't using cutting edge 3D techniques, you are less likely to get incompatibilities and inconsistencies with video card drivers and hardware.

    Of course not all genres can work in 2D, but time and time again we see 3D bump-mapped pixel-shaded shinyness applied to games where it just isn't necessary.
    Imagine World Of Goo in 3D. Would it be a better game? Of course not, it would be horrid, and would lack the charm and individual art style that makes a game like that so fresh and awesome.

    Journalists and gamers need to finally realise that 3D, and high dynamic range lighting are not what makes a game fun. They make it expensive, and they can make it more immersive, but they do not contribute automatically to making a game fun, which is what it's all about.

    --
    DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
    1. Re:The solution is 2D games by cliffski · · Score: 4, Informative

      I disagree.

      To get quality art in 3D is hugely expensive, and pushes the system requirements through the roof.
      I use 3D spaceship models rendered as sprites for my next game. They are hugely high poly, yet I rendre them using 2 quads.
      You can't get the same effect in 3D without rendering at least 30,000 times as many polys. It also means the entire ship (not just the bit facing the camera) needs to be modelled and textured.

      I've worked on 3D games and 2D games. 3D gobbles up tons of CPU and GPU time and involves horrendously huge teams to get decent visual quality.

      Show me the 2D games companies that are struggling. Popcap maybe? BigFishgames? Both making millions, whilst the big 3D blockbuster publishers struggle.

      --
      DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
  11. Overproduction by noselasd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's quite simple, there is a vast overproduction of games.
    People will only buy so many games, and when there's just too many games, eventually some of the producers will have to throw in the towel.

    Which is good for the ones that survives, as they have a greater chance of turning a profit again.

    1. Re:Overproduction by clickclickdrone · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's the Atari 2600 syndrome all over again. 2000+ games, the vast majority of which were cack. People just gave up buying and the whole market collapsed.

      --
      I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
  12. Cost analsysis time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How much money does your current generation shooter's 3D assets (Including textures) cost to produce? Let's assume it takes a week to produce a high quality 3D humanoid actor, and another month to do motion captures and animations.

    Lets break that down now: 1 month + 1 week = 25 work days, give or take. If we are not working overtime (because we are on schedule-- like that ever happens...) for 8 hours a day, which comes to 200 hours for a single employee in that time frame. If we assume that the dev crew has 3 employees assigned to this task, that is 600 work hours invested. If we tabulate this up with 'Crazy California Wages' (at least 20USD/hr), we get something around 12k to pay those 3 employees for 1.25 months, to produce and animate a quality 3D actor... (*ONE* actor)

    What happens to this 12k asset after the game is released? It finds itself in a backup queue somewhere, drawing dust, and adding to corporate overhead, because that model and it's animations are 'yesterday's news'. (But dont anyone else DARE copy it!)

    An absurdly simple solution to this problem is a creative development commons repository, into which obsoleted, or true public commons assets (Such as textures, models and animations from public sources) are shared between a consortium of interested corporations.

    EG, only one partnered company need develop a 1957 Chevrolet classic, and the other partners can use that asset later with a very minimal licensing fee. In return, that company can draw from the wide selection of physique animated, havok physics boobie girl models and textures that will be in there, rather than having to make one themselves.

    Such cooperation between vendors would enable high quality content to still be available, but would drastically slash artistic staff overhead.

    Similar collaborations for AI behavior, and engine tweaks/modifications could be kept, allowing work to not be replicated many times between the interested parties, and would allow these companies to continue producing innovative plots, and environments, while drastically cutting the overhead costs.

    Looking for a specific make and model of car? Check to see if a partnered affiliate in the consortium has already made one that will fill your needs-- Looking to resolve an issue with AI bots jumping out in the open and shouting "HERE I AM!!" when they should be doing pop-shots behind cover? Check the AI scriptlet repository to see if another AI programmer may have had insight before.

    A game title is more than the sum of it's parts, and having a shared resource of stock parts would allow game companies to focus more heavily on game DYNAMICS rather than blowing all their budget on artwork, and technical issues.

    However, I won't hold my breath that such an outbreak of common sense will happen any time soon, given the current trend to ever increasing levels of escalating aggression involving tactical IP portfolio warheads.

    What did the cold war teach us about standoff stalemates where we have hordes of weapons cached away, "For security"? It leads to economic problems, mismanagement, and bankruptcy.

    People never learn do they?

  13. What I don't understand... by junglee_iitk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What I don't understand is capitalism!

    When 25 Million dollar games are not turning profits, then either:
    1) Pay less to developers and artists
    2) Make less expensive games

    To me, (1) makes most sense. Isn't that how capitalism supposed to work?

    1. Re:What I don't understand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      3) Pay less to or fire the managers and executives who are clearly not making good decisions.

      That makes the most sense to me.

  14. Or... by Xest · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you are going to make a huge expensive game, make it worth buying.

    The problem is this, there's a lot of games out there with massive budgets that are simply crap.

    I'm not really sure the complaint in the article is exactly. They seem to be effectively complaining that the market doesn't reward games that have had a massive budget but are still crap? Well isn't that just the way business is? if you spend a fortune developing something that no one wants then you fail?

    There's a reason we've always had certain studios come back time and time again with new releases - id Software, Blizzard, Square Enix etc. It's because they produce good games people want, even if they do spend a fortune developing them.

    I don't see how it's a crisis that market forces affect the games industry like they affect everyone else exactly? What are they saying? That we should have to be more open to funding shite we don't actually want?

    Expanding on your point - the key is to make games fun and that people want, whether it's a high budget or low budget production. What consumers wont tolerate are games that aren't fun even if companies have spent $25 million on them - that's their problem. Huge, expensive games are still perfectly valid and I'd certainly be sad if we didn't get anymore Call of Dutys, Gears of Wars, Half-Lifes and that sort of thing, but they still require the fun factor than smaller games require too.

  15. There's one problem there by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, there is one problem there: everybody also competes with older games at bargain bin prices.

    There was a time when that was a lot less of a problem, since Doom II looked like crap compared to Quake (and games based on the Quake engine), and then when you had Quake II games the old Quake I started to look like crap by comparison. Nowadays improvements are a lot more incremental. I've even played some ~10 year old games recently and while you can tell a difference, they're not exactly visually offensive either.

    Gameplay has also been OK for quite a while now. It's been a long time since we had too little RAM for anything too complex, so you can go quite a bit back in time with your gaming before you run into problems.

    Basically what I'm saying is this:

    A) I could buy a new cutesy mini-game for casual players for 20 bucks or so. Like, say, Build-A-Lot, which I actually bought recently. Except it feels like there's a whole game missing around it. The complexity and difficulty are about right for one of the dozens of minigames in a $60 RPG, so I don't think I got much of a bargain with it.

    B) I could get Fallout I, Fallout II _and_ Fallout Tactics on a DVD for around the same price. Seriously.

    C) I could get a 1 to 3 year old game for the same price. E.g., The Sims 2 costs about that much by now, and it's actually a better value for casual gamers. (Though if you're a l33t FPS-er, you might not necessarily like it.) E.g., Settlers 6 is actually almost half that by now. E.g., Warcraft III including the expansion pack is also about 20 bucks by now. Slightly more money gets you Civ IV with all expansion packs. Etc.

    So I think there's a finite niche for simple cutesy games.

    Of course, that might not apply if you can come up with a radically new game concept that everyone just has to play. But that's a bit harder than it sounds. Designers which managed to come up with a whole new concept are very few and far in between, and even they rarely manage to repeat that. It's hardly a model for staying in business for the rest of your life, is it?

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  16. Island of stability. by w0mprat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From a purely economic perspective, where you can't sell enough units, and you don't make enough money to cover costs, you need to lower the price to drive sales and restore consumer confidence.

    You see, there is a strange effect, I call the island of pricing stability.

    On a graph of price vs units sold there is a sweet spot that extracts maximum net profit. Basic stuff. But to bolster the bottom line businesses often hike their prices in small increments. Short term this produces a bump to your bottom line as consumers tolerate the price rise, at least initially, which gets some smart guy who suggested it a bonus. Longer term sales take a hit as consumers make other choices, loose interest or merely spend less. Time wears on and your prices creep, overall you begin to loose gross revenue. It's not immediately obvious what is going on, it doesn't show up on short term graphs shown to the brass, nor obvious how to take corrective action (roll back that price change, cut costs, fast). Naturally everything from market forces to competition to alignment of the planets is blamed instead of potentially bad business decisions.

    After a number of price increments, where the profits just seem to keep coming in and nothing is really going wrong, what you eventually reach is a island of stability in pricing. Even far above the sweet spot this is often a nicely profitable model, even if sales decline a little, cutting costs drives revenue back to the bottom line. It is even somewhat sustainable mid term provided reasonable scarcity is maintained, competition doesn't get the lead and demand holds out.

    But there is one problem with this model. It's bollocks. This pricing island of stability is right on the edge of a steep slippery slope ready to be pushed off by competition or the slightest breeze of change from the market. Raise your prices further, for example, to try and raise funds for your lower than predicted bottom line, you can watch sales take a nose dive. In the overall picture, you just priced yourselves out of the market.

    Now if you ever were looking for an example of the proverbial epic fail. How about a price rise when your sales are already failing in a struggling market with weary consumers that's hardly profitable for anyone anymore?

    In the middle of a recession also? Surely this is madness.

    --
    After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
  17. Valve's price experiment proves games too expensiv by _Shorty-dammit · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ran out of chars...

    Anyway, Valve has been running pricing experiments on its Steam platform and have come up with some surprising numbers. A limited-time price drop of Left 4 Dead resulted in a 3000% increase in sales income. How can any sane developer/publisher ignore the kind of numbers he shows us? The article cites many more examples, with hard to ignore results.
    http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/693342/Live-Blog-DICE-2009-Keynote---Gabe-Newell-Valve-Software.html

  18. Re:Math by vlm · · Score: 5, Informative

    Cost for the developers is $25m

    Huge mistake right there.... budget breakdown is more like:

    30% various licensing fees for theme, art, and music.
    30% for marketing, tv commercials, paid for advertorials and complimentary copy in magazines and online, print ads, posters in stores, parties for the media, show expenses.
    30% for executive management bonuses, HR, finance, other non-frontline cost centers
    8% for customer service to handle all the bugs, purchasing/shipping department, technical writers, etc.
    2% for developer pay, at most.

    The percentages vary slightly from megacorp to megacorp, but not much.

    The question that will not be asked, is why the overhead approaches 99% yet provides so little impact on the final gameplay experience.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger