Cellular Repo Man

LateNiteTV sends in news of a "kill pill" from LM Ericsson AB that a wireless carrier could use to remotely disable a subsidized netbook if the customer doesn't pay the monthly bill or cancels their credit card. "...the Swedish company that makes many of the modems that go into laptops announced Tuesday that its new modem will deal with [the nonpayment] issue by including a feature that's virtually a wireless repo man. If the carrier has the stomach to do so, it can send a signal that completely disables the computer, making it impossible to turn on. ... Laptop makers that use Ericsson modules include LG Electronics Inc., Dell Inc., Toshiba Corp., and Lenovo." The feature could also be used to lock thieves out of the data on a stolen laptop.

Comments

Used car salesmen use the same thing

[DrMrLordX]

We have had several used car lots around here that will basically do the same thing: if you don't make your weekly or monthly payments, they send a signal to a device attached to the starter and the car won't start.

At least with the car, eventually you pay it off so that little cloud is no longer hanging over your head unless some idiot at the lot mistakes you for being in non-payment and kills your starter. With one of these notebooks, you'll always have that threat looming that your notebook will shut down if someone steals your only CC and you have to cancel it or what not at the wrong time in the billing cycle.

One would hope nobody involved would be so draconian but you never know.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[Anonymous Coward]

I have no problems with this as long as there are SEVERE penalties for the used car people for mistakenly shutting off a car on an account that is paid up to date.

In my state, preventing use of legally owned property (like an automobile) is a felony and carries the same penalty as theft of that property. If the used car people can shut someone's car off and then say "sorry we made a mistake" and get away with it and not go to prison then I would have MAJOR issues with this practice.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[c6gunner]

With one of these notebooks, you'll always have that threat looming that your notebook will shut down if someone steals your only CC and you have to cancel it or what not at the wrong time in the billing cycle.

I would assume that there would be a grace period, and that they'd try to contact you fist. That's just good business sense. Even the mafia won't off-you if you're 5 minutes late on your payments - they'll send someone around to have a chat with you, first.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[Hognoxious]

In my state, preventing use of legally owned property (like an automobile) is a felony

I don't know which satet that is, but I'm guessing that until a large proportion (if not all) of it has been paid off it is "legally owned" indeed - by the finance company.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[thebear05]

the legal owner of the car would be who is shutting it off ? right ?

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[billcopc]

Much like the car starter, this "kill chip" can and will be circumvented.

Perhaps not surprisingly, the kind of people who default on small payment are often the same kind of people who hang out with shady people. What? Did you think deadbeats lived in caves ?

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[morgan_greywolf]

that's just good business sense. Even the mafia won't off-you if you're 5 minutes late on your payments

As someone who just became five minutes late on my 'protection' money, I can attest to th

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[Achromatic1978]

Apparently you are unaware of the concept of a loan. When you buy a car, do you have the title and registration? When you buy a house, and have a mortgage, you have the deed, not the bank.

Sure the bank or lender makes you sign a contract guaranteeing them the right to repossess the object if you fail to honor the payment agreement, but pretty key in that sentence is the word REpossess. They pass possession to you. Now it may also be that the property is the security on the loan, but again, security is a pretty specific concept in law. If the lender owns your property, they can sell it or dispose of it at any time, apropos of anything else. They don't. They retain the contractual right to reposess, claim or lien the security until you satisfy your debt. That is not the same thing.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[228e2]

This is probably the funniest post on this thread. C'mon moderators!

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[vonart]

I don't know about homes, but I can attest that it's BOTH the bank and my name on the title to my car. When the loan's paid off, the bank signs off on the title and their name is removed... so yes, the bank owns it.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[c6gunner]

As someone who just became five minutes late on my 'protection' money, I can attest to th

Well, at least the goons were nice enough to hit the "preview" and "submit" button for you, in addition to all the other bits that they were hitting ...

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[Anonymous Coward]

Singularly or collectively? (i.e. can either of you put the car up for sale on their own authority, or do you both have to do it together?)

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[pitterpatter]

This is probably the funniest post on this thread. C'mon moderators!

I think so too, and am kicking my butt because I just used my last mod point.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[publiclurker]

Same here, with my last three cars, once I made the final payment, they gave me full title.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[philipgar]

I'm pretty sure most car loans don't let you put up the car for sale without first contacting the bank. Generally they're going to have to require payment in full, or some other form of security before they'd okay the sale of the car. Basically you don't have the right to sell the car. By the same rules, you have to have certain levels of insurance on a car you buy with a loan. The bank won't allow you to secure your loan with an asset that could become worthless overnight (for instance if you total the car, or get it stolen).

Phil

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[Mhtsos]

How nice of the Mafia to click on the submit button.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[cffrost]

Easy hack, if its cheaper to leave the car idling when not in use. And/or use/rent it as a taxi.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[Dan541]

Sounds like those devices would be pretty ineffective, People can easily remove them and start the car, or simply install a new starter since they arn't very expensive to begin with.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[jackbird]

When I moved to Pennsylvania, I was very surprised to discover that the state sent the new title on my yet-to-be-paid-off car directly to my lender. Indeed they do hold the title here.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[chrismeidinger]

Always make sure somebody knows the story, and is there to tell it. Otherwise they don't fear us.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[YouWantFriesWithThat]

i have done this a few times on the buyer side: you don't have to pay off the loan before you sell. the lender is listed on the title as a warning to the buyer of the vehicle that someone has a lien on it. as the buyer you contact the lender, find out the payoff balance, and write a check for the payoff balance to the lender and a check for the remainder of the sale price to the selling party. this way you know that you will have a clear title when you transfer it to you.

if you write a check for the whole sale value to the private party seller you have no idea of knowing if they will ever pay off the balance of the loan or if they will leave you hanging. the lender doesn't care if the car title is transferred or not, they still have a lien on it and they can repo it from the new owner if they want to.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[poetmatt]

This is stupid. Reason: What if you make your payments online? Now you can't even make the payment to keep the laptop working. This will happen a lot, and will basically cause them to cannibalize their own customers.

Honestly, pure stupidity.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[edward2020]

So, you're suggesting that people with these devices never turn their car off? Or rent it as a taxi, which would get you in trouble in some municipalities. How 'bout just put a new starter on it and call it good?

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[Hognoxious]

From the replies below it seems it's you that's unaware. The possess part of repossession refers to physical possession i/e towing it away or throwing you out.

Once more: it's not your's until the loan is paid off.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[Hognoxious]

Maybe he was dictating?

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[yakatz]

Singularly or collectively? (i.e. can either of you put the car up for sale on their own authority, or do you both have to do it together?)

I think the Title specifically says that "This vehicle can not be sold" with out notarized bank approval.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[cffrost]

So, you're suggesting that people with these devices never turn their car off?

Note that I'm not endorsing this idea; just bringing it to the table. I have no strong feelings on the matter. If someone decided to implement my idea, then yes, it would preclude them from ever turning their car off.

Or rent it as a taxi, which would get you in trouble in some municipalities.

Prudence would call for anyone considering this to check local regulations before applying for a taxi/livery permit. I disclaim responsibility for the actions of any would-be hobbyist taxi-drivers, taxi-driving enthusiasts, etcetera. I proposed this as one possibility for offsetting the cost of the gasoline needed to your car 24/7... (and perhaps earn a modest profit during these hard times).

How 'bout just put a new starter on it and call it good?

No question, your solution is certainly a good one. However, I was presenting easy hacks for any jackass that can start & drive a car; yours is a hard(ware) hack, which requires (at the very least,) expertise in operating a hood release and the use of hand tool(s) in a proper fashion.

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[zobier]

Oh shut up!

Re:Used car salesmen use the same thing

[edward2020]

I laughed aloud when I read this - in a good way!

Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[wed128]

A theif could easily take out the hard drive and read it using another device, no? you are locking a theif out of a laptop, not the data within.

Re:Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[Darkness404]

...But you assume that most thieves actually know something about computers. A lot couldn't care less about the data, they just want to sell the nice hardware. Sure, some actually know a thing about computers, but your typical thief doesn't really care about the HD, they just want to sell it to a pawn shop or a streetcorner for some quick cash.

Re:Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[LoRdTAW]

Most thefts aren't data thefts or other espionage related thefts. I would wager most notebook (and other electronic gadget) thefts are for profit thefts. A thief will swipe you laptop and try to hock it at a pawn shop or other crooked store that fronts stolen goods. Too many people start thinking "James Bond" without thinking in a more real world sense. Sure there are espionage related thefts but most electronic gadgetry thefts are by desperate individuals looking for fast cash. And those thieves are often junkies looking for a fix and will steal anything of value to get it.

Besides the article is talking about disabling notebooks that are subsidized by wireless broadband plans in which the customer stops paying for. Not stolen notebooks.

Re:Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[VinylRecords]

A theif could easily take out the hard drive and read it using another device, no? you are locking a theif out of a laptop, not the data within.

You could design a proprietary drive that only functions within that laptop and should anyone remove the drive there would be a fail safe that erases the data or locks the data until it is reattached to the original laptop.

Not sure if the technology is possible for something like this (I'm a comedy writer for a living, no technical experience) but I'm sure you could prevent people from accessing a drive somehow.

Re:Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[Lehk228]

wouldn't it be easier to encrypt the drive and have the wireless kill system hold the key?

Re:Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[HTH NE1]

You could design a proprietary drive that only functions within that laptop

That's a lot of R&D to put into proprietary interfaces when whole-disk encryption with off-the-shelf components is a lot easier to deploy.

Re:Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[mlts]

Bitlocker does exactly this, assuming the laptop has a TPM chip. Once enabled and the recovery key saved somewhere secure, the laptop boots, grabs the volume key from the TPM and goes about its business without needing a password. Should the drive be yanked and read from another machine, it will be encrypted and useless without the recovery key.

Re:Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[dgatwood]

Just make sure you provide a copy of the crypto key to the legitimate owner in case the motherboard fails outright.... That would really suck to lose all your data merely because your motherboard blew a couple of filter caps.

Re:Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[Hognoxious]

True, but then the people they fence them to might be a bit more clued up and/or have connections.

Re:Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[Hognoxious]

it is data will be encrypted?

I think that in actual fact you fucked it for him.

Re:Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sprint actually has a service that does just that. No decryption for a system that has been shut down remotely. Win.

Re:Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[Bored Grammar Nazi]

"The romans they go to the house"?

Maybe you meant "its data".

Re:Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[Z00L00K]

Which is why you should use Truecrypt on your laptop if you possess sensitive data.

B.t.w. Since it was a reference to LM Ericsson AB, it has a April's fools taste of the whole thing.

Re:Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[Inda]

Plenty of people would buy a bricked laptop for the same price as a £10 bag of smack. They'd take a chance on someone being able to fix it for that price.

Re:Stolen Laptop, yes. Data, No.

[Anonymous Coward]

Security through obscurity.

Data Thief? ... More likely after the laptop part.

[Walpurgiss]

If a thief were really after your data, it'd be pretty trivial to remove the hard drive from the laptop, and just have to worry about encryption.

This feature won't help protect your data really, just make laptop itself a paperweight.

Here's a better idea

[Locke2005]

Don't sell hardware by tying it to a subscription! You want to provide financing, fine. But stop trying to convince people that a $500 computer should be free, but it makes sense to spend $100/month for a communications link.

Re:Here's a better idea

[MightyYar]

Just curious... why? It seems to be what the market demands.

Don't get me wrong - I would jump at the chance to get a non-subsidized phone/data plan, but I am more angry at the ignorant masses than at the companies fulfilling their desires.

Re:Here's a better idea

[Anonymous Coward]

just do like cell phone companies and add a termination fee. sure you would have alot of pissed off customers but that's only if you didn't allow paying for hte device in full without contract...

Re:Here's a better idea

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you think I've been wanting here in the USA? A SIM-only cell phone plan. Like Vodafone.

Re:Here's a better idea

[cml4524]

If they just walk away from paying the plan, why wouldn't they just walk away from paying the term fee?

Re:Here's a better idea

[Anonymous Coward]

The guarenteed revenue stream that a contract has helps reduce the cost of doing business (the customer aquisition cost can be defrayed over more payments).

This is why when your contract runs out you get offers for free phones in the mail from your carrier. They WANT you to get a free phone, rather that risk you leaving at any point. And this while you are paying "too much" monthly. Look at how expensive pay as you go plans are. Contracts reduce rates.

Re:Here's a better idea

[novakyu]

What do you think I've been wanting here in the USA? A SIM-only cell phone plan. Like Vodafone.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "SIM-only cell phone plan", but there are pay-as-you-go plans from major wireless carriers, like T-Mobile, AT&T, and Verizon (although Verizon's "pay-as-you-go" is just subscription on daily installment, since you pay daily "access fee" even on days you don't use your phone).

And you don't have to get a new cell phone when you get the SIM cards for these services, so if you have an unlocked cell phone or one that works with the carrier, you just go to the dealership and get the SIM card.

Granted, this is far less convenient than some places overseas, where you can just buy SIM cards at newspaper stands (and I don't think I should have to pay $10+ just for the SIM card, as I did when I got it from T-Mobile), but if you plan on using the same SIM card for a reasonable length of time, like most normal people, it's a minor inconvenience.

Re:Here's a better idea

[FlyingBishop]

I don't think they really expect this to take off very much. They're just preparing for a few years down the road when a netbook capable of running Windows XP or Linux with all the bells and whistles will debut for something like $60-100, and probably start to replace the old-style cellphones in a lot of data plans.

Re:Here's a better idea

[TheSpoom]

Morality always trumps "what the market demands" for me.

I can't control other people, but I wouldn't run a business like this simply because it seems wrong.

Re:Here's a better idea

[Tanman]

Why should they stop trying to convince people that $60/mo makes sense? Fact is that after the computer is paid, people will still be paying $60 a month. After owning the computer and internet access for 4 years, not only have they recouped the price of the system, but they've recouped it twice over.

Computer: $400
Internet Access $30/mo (normally)

At $60/mo, the phone company needs 14 months to repay the price of the computer (which, by the way, is probably tax deductible as a business expense anyway since it's 'free' with the service). Everything after that is cash money.

Re:Here's a better idea

[internewt]

Just curious... why? It seems to be what the market demands.

Don't get me wrong - I would jump at the chance to get a non-subsidized phone/data plan, but I am more angry at the ignorant masses than at the companies fulfilling their desires.

In markets like mobile telecoms there are only a few big players, so the market gets offered what the players want to offer, not necessarily what the customers want. Obviously collusion is illegal, but "singing from the same hymn sheet" isn't.

The utter cluelessness of most customers when it comes to computers and tech in general doesn't help much either. I guess this could be viewed as "what the market demands" though.

I'm sure it's a bit of both, plus some more.

Re:Here's a better idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Pay as you go plans are the price leaders in Germany. You get the cheapest per minute prices with plans that have no minimum contract term. Upfront costs are typically less than $10 for the SIM card and often count towards your balance. You can still get subsidized phones with pre- and post-payment plans, but the minutes are considerably more expensive and the phone is almost always locked to the SIM card.

It shouldn't come as a surprise: Customers will more easily switch to a cheaper competitor if they're not tied to a two year contract, so pay as you go plans must be much more price oriented to keep people from leaving. (It also helps competition that you can keep your phone number when you switch to a competitor.)

Re:Here's a better idea

[DrEldarion]

So the solution is for you to buy a computer that fits your needs (subscription-free) and people who want a subsidized computer to buy one with their data plan. I fail to see the issue here unless you'll no longer be able to order a laptop without a subscription.

Re:Here's a better idea

[tepples]

Computer: $400
Internet Access $30/mo (normally)

Where? In Fort Wayne, Indiana, United States, a normal data-only plan from Centennial or AT&T or Verizon without a ridiculously low cap (e.g. 0.1 GB/mo) costs $60 per month.

Re:Here's a better idea

[supernova_hq]

Wow, sucks to be you...

It's not nearly that bad in Canada.

Re:Here's a better idea

[MightyYar]

In markets like mobile telecoms there are only a few big players

I'd agree except that - unless my memory is playing tricks on me - the subsidized phones started way back when there were dozens of carriers serving various regions of the US. It took off not because of carrier greed, but because consumers were more willing to sign up with little initial outlay.

Re:Here's a better idea

[c6gunner]

Sucks to be you. You can get a decent ADSL line here for as low as $20 per month.

Re:Here's a better idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Canada is a very big place, and there are parts of Canada where it sucks to live... although I'd need some convincing that any of those places suck as bad as Ft. Wayne Indiana. If I were stuck someplace like that, I'm quite sure every dime and every bit of energy I had would be applied toward getting the hell out of there.

Re:Here's a better idea

[causality]

The guarenteed revenue stream that a contract has helps reduce the cost of doing business (the customer aquisition cost can be defrayed over more payments).

This is why when your contract runs out you get offers for free phones in the mail from your carrier. They WANT you to get a free phone, rather that risk you leaving at any point. And this while you are paying "too much" monthly. Look at how expensive pay as you go plans are. Contracts reduce rates.

I have an alternative view on what would reduce rates. It's simple, too.

Make all mobile phones able to interoperate with all of the national cellular networks. Make the cellular companies' FCC licenses depend on fully publishing their protocols/etc. as open standards if necessary. The idea here is that you can independently buy any phone you like from the vendor of your choice and then use it on any network you like. Then get rid of all contracts and make the carriers adopt month-to-month plans. You pay for one month of service; at the end of that month, you can decide not to buy more service or to switch to another carrier with no penalties whatsoever and no need to obtain a different phone. Then let the carriers compete on price, coverage, and service.

I would expect much bitching and moaning from the carriers, but that's too bad. Their current system is a way to avoid having to be very competitive. That's the only reason why they lock customers into 2-year contracts and it's the only reason why they artificially restrict phones. That's certainly in their interests but it is not in ours. Currently the game is played according to their rules.

I think we forget sometimes that this happens only because we accept it. There are few or no products or services that we need so badly that we should accept someone else's dominance in order to have them. If you really value freedom, then you know that this price is too high. Certainly it should not be the norm that almost every telco wants you to do this. Somehow humanity lived without cellular phones for a very long time (though many seem to have forgotten this) so I don't consider them an exception to this rule.

I see that valuing our toys and conveniences more than our freedom and independence makes us, as a whole, rather easy to push around. It's not usually recognized as the weakness that it is. That's a shame. We really need to decide whether the interests of artificial constructs such as corporations are more or less important than the interests of individual human beings. Once we decide that, we can take positions that are consistent with that decision. In this case, that's especially true considering that most (all?) of the telcos are government-protected monopolies that were set up to serve a public interest in the first place. I won't debate whether that was the best arrangement. I only observe that requiring them to do business in a less self-serving manner is consistent with that arrangement.

Re:Here's a better idea

[maxume]

Is it wireless?

Context is oh so much fun.

Re:Here's a better idea

[Zerth]

In Ohio Verizon only sticks it to you for $30/month on an "unlimited"(really 5GB) plan.

Re:Here's a better idea

[MightyYar]

Morality always trumps "what the market demands" for me.

That's an interesting perspective - I never would have considered cell phone pricing to be a moral issue. If I thought that they were taking advantage of people, I'd probably agree with you... but if you look at the huge number of companies out there who offer some kind of financing as part of their pricing, it's clear that most people look at monthly payment rather than total cost. Even cars are advertised by their monthly payment, and they are a whole order of magnitude more expensive than cell phone plans.

Re:Here's a better idea

[Brickwall]

Oh, this is utter balderdash. I worked for a large cell phone provider in Canada, and we were always scrambling to adjust our billing plans to keep up with market demands for different plans for different needs. (The fact that our billing system was provided by Cincinnati Bell, and we didn't have source code meant a minimum 12-week turnaround for the simplest changes didn't help.)

On the other hand, asking customers what new features they wanted was an exercise in futility. First, more than half didn't know how to operate ANY of the existing features (such as memory dial) besides SEND and END. And when you asked what they wanted, they had no clue. Their only experience with phones was picking up and answering, or dialing, and that was the only metaphor they could apply to their cellphones.

And I think that's the way it is with most tech devices. Who knew they wanted/needed a spreadsheet until Visicalc showed up? Who knew they wanted a graphical interface until the Mac showed up (OK, Xerox did it first, but they never really tried to market it)? The browser? TiVo? The truth is the vast majority have to be shown something before their internal paradigm shifts sufficiently to create a market. That's why companies have to advertise - to open people's minds to possibilities most of the public could never imagine. That's why visionaries who do dream up successful new ideas, like, say, e-bay, get paid hundreds of millions. Of course, the flip side is if no one likes your idea, someone loses hundreds of millions, which is why it's a such a crap shoot. People who think it's all a big business conspiracy have ZERO idea of how business actually works.

That all said, I think the idea of giving some company the right to disable my laptop over a possible billing error blows big time, and I would never buy it.

Re:Here's a better idea

[Idiomatick]

I'd say he was referring to wireless... If you want regular internet in canada get Teksavvy http://tinyurl.com/6xne5a (zomg 1st time i used ubiquity on /. to tinyurl something) not shaw :S.... double the cap for the same price (though slower dl). I find dl speed doesn't matter a whole lot since you won't cap dl speed without upload to match. Anyways pretty much no sites aside from google come in at 2MB/s. AND teksavvy is one of the few isps in canada fighting against all the internet bs going on lately.

Re:Here's a better idea

[Brickwall]

I'd agree except that - unless my memory is playing tricks on me - the subsidized phones started way back when there were dozens of carriers serving various regions of the US. It took off not because of carrier greed, but because consumers were more willing to sign up with little initial outlay.

It was a bit of both, actually. The rural carriers especially were interested in grabbing fat roaming fees ($5-6 a minute was not uncommon!), which is why the lawyers had a field day doing cookie cutter cellular applications for people hoping to win the lottery, build a few towers, and then sell out to a large company later. The large carriers, like the Baby Bells and McCaw were interested in getting as many subscribers as possible, since the lock-in factor at the time (no number portability especially) was pretty high. The larger carriers started selling phones through agents, to whom they paid a bounty for each new subscriber. If memory serves, it was on the order of $500-600. Agents, in turn, would turn a portion of that bounty to the new sub, via a discount on the phone price.

I remember selling Motorola flip phones for $5,000 Cdn for a while, but the price quickly plummeted because of these bounties. At the time, our network was completely saturated in Toronto; it wasn't unusual to have to make four or five attempts to get dial tone. One night, after many drinks, an agent decried our company's strategy of not increasing the bounties. "Cash flow! Cash flow!" he garbled "You can't get a f**ing dial tone anyway! Get as many subs as you can so you can soak up the monthly fees!" Eventually network build-out caught up with demand, but the agent proved prescient; we were losing money, and were eventually taken over by another firm.

Re:Here's a better idea

[c6gunner]

Whoops. My bad.

Re:Here's a better idea

[TheSpoom]

Financing is different. As I understand it, this is a rental tied to a contract binding the user to continue to pay for an unrelated service.

In the former case, you own something. In the latter, you do not.

Re:Here's a better idea

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason is their credit history: if you walk away from paying your debts, it goes on your credit report and makes it harder to get credit.

The early termination fee does not apply to walkaways. It applies to people who want to get out of contract earlier, through a mutually agreable route of a withdrawal fee, and without getting bad credit rep.

Re:Here's a better idea

[Achromatic1978]

(and I don't think I should have to pay $10+ just for the SIM card, as I did when I got it from T-Mobile)

Just how much do you think you should have to pay for such a device? Cellphones are far from the only "subscription" service with a "registration fee" or equivalent.

Re:Here's a better idea

[RulerOf]

I'm in Ohio, last I checked 3G laptop cards are $60/monthly. Blackberry/smartphone data plans are $30, Blackberry data plans with BES connectivity are $45, and Blackberry data with BES + tethering runs $60.

The $30 plan is nowhere near real "wireless data access."

Re:Here's a better idea

[teh kurisu]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "SIM-only cell phone plan"

One of these. It's a SIM-only contract.

Most UK operators provide PAYG SIMs either for free or below £1 online, probably in-store too although you'll most likely have to provide your address.

Re:Here's a better idea

[Zerth]

Well, I don't have BES(although I've been thinking about it, you can get a one user BES license for free now) and don't live in Cinci or Columbus(they charge extra if your billing address is in a metro zipcode), so mine's just $30+tax.

Re:Here's a better idea

[Anonymous Coward]

BES is quite worthwhile.
 
There's comfort in knowing that if you drop your phone off a cliff (or if it's stolen), you can remotely wipe the old one, pick up a new one of any model and reactivate it, and *everything*, all the way down to how you like your alarm to ring and the ringer it used, is *exactly* the same. You might as well not have lost your phone at all.
 
That's some serious piece of mind for me.
 
Also, sorry about the AC, but I'm too lazy to log in.

Re:Here's a better idea

[novakyu]

Just how much do you think you should have to pay for such a device? Cellphones are far from the only "subscription" service with a "registration fee" or equivalent.

For a SIM card? Probably something around $3 to $5. At least that's what I paid in Poland (I know, if I love Poland so much, why don't I move there—I'm just comparing, not saying that Poland is better than U.S.).

Note that I am providing my only phone, and you know, with the SIM card, the expectation is that I will be buying additional minutes on the account, so even giving the SIM card free to me could make market sense. Kinda like how your credit card company (or bank) "gives" your credit/ATM card "for free", because you make them enough money and the card really costs peanuts.

Re:Here's a better idea

[Zerth]

Indeed, it is tempting. But while the BES might be free(i've a spare server at home), my phone company seems to think that installing it is worth at least $180/year for them to let me stop using their server and start using mine.

Presumably because they think anyone using BES must have a corporate account that will not notice a 50%+ increase in fees and will start dinging me as badly as they would the fellow I was replying to originally.

Re:Here's a better idea

[supernova_hq]

I do torrenting (both types). Being able to dload a linux iso in 20 minutes, if VERY useful.

You are right, normally dload speed is pretty much auto-capped by your uload speed, except when torrenting.

Re:Here's a better idea

[RulerOf]

Aye that was me, too lazy to login at work.

It's a piece of mind thing. If you like, you can try the desktop redirector, which offers some of the same functionality but doesn't require the extra fee (i think). Though you are right.

Cell phone companies, unfortunately, are a bunch of assholes :(

Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[GPLDAN]

How much fun will it be when the wireless carrier fires Crazy Stu, the wacky UNIX sysadmin with the penchant for conspiracy theories and bad dental health.

When HR comes around to fire Stu, he leaves his timebomb in place. The one that fires out the kill message to hundreds - nay - thousands of customers - and disables their leased laptops all at once.

What a day that will be.

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[causality]

How much fun will it be when the wireless carrier fires Crazy Stu, the wacky UNIX sysadmin with the penchant for conspiracy theories and bad dental health. When HR comes around to fire Stu, he leaves his timebomb in place. The one that fires out the kill message to hundreds - nay - thousands of customers - and disables their leased laptops all at once. What a day that will be.

I hope it does not come to that, but should that happen anyway, in a way I would be grateful. It is unfortunate that things like that often have to happen before people are willing to question whether what they were doing was a good idea. My opinion is that anything which is needlessly centralized and open to this sort of vulnerability is a bad idea, especially when there are already established ways to deal with the problem this intends to solve. I consider the likelihood of such an exploit occurring to be irrelevant; there would be no such possibility at all if this were the correct solution.

We are talking about financers and lenders, or those who do something similar by using long-term contracts to subsidize what would otherwise be an up-front cost. It's a form of credit because it takes time to become profitable and it depends on the other party not defaulting. If such people want to extend credit to those who are bad risks, that is the original problem and an improved "repo man" does nothing to solve it. It only addresses the symptoms of the original problem.

For people who default on a loan or a contract, this pseudo-solution is essentially an alternative to taking them to court. It means that the lender can just remotely disable the equipment that was not paid for without having to use any sort of due process. It is thus an extra-legal power that did not previously exist, and is rightfully called a power grab. The entire point of the court system is that both sides can make their case. If the money required to bring a lawsuit against a large corporation already makes this difficult for the average person to pursue, taking the courts entirely out of the equation makes it impossible. This is not a good precedent. If this catches on, it will become increasingly difficult to buy a cell phone or perhaps a laptop without agreeing to allow it.

It's amazing to me that we will do almost anything, come up with nearly any clever solution, go to any effort, to avoid directly addressing the actual cause of our problems. It's as though we feel threatened by the prospect, or inadequate at having failed to realize its simplicity. This is why we live in a superficial society. This is also why there are so many bad precedents which seem inevitable although they did not need to be that way at all.

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not crazy, and how the F@#% do you know my name? You're from the government, aren't you? AREN'T YOU?

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[Wrath0fb0b]

When HR comes around to fire Stu, he leaves his timebomb in place. The one that fires out the kill message to hundreds - nay - thousands of customers - and disables their leased laptops all at once.

Later that day, the company sues Stu for malicious destruction of property, lost business revenue, failure to fulfill a duty of care (remember, employees are actually expect to work for their employer, not against them). A few hours later, an injunction will issue requiring Stu to return the computer network to the state before he left pending further hearings. Stu will either comply or face escalating sanctions and then jail time until he complies with the court order (which the company is entitled to as a matter of black letter law).

The company will apologize profusely, give everyone a free week of service (maybe a month, depending on how the PR department sees this) and charge it off as a one-time freak expense. Finally, it will be posted on /. as a dupe of http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/18/2349242.

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[TheSpoom]

Unfortunately, by the time Stu has run his timebomb, Stu has also had fractions of a cent transferred to a bank account in the Caymans and is now living somewhere in the Bahamas under the pseudonym Leonard Stumonias, Esquire.

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[FoxconnGuy]

If people shoot at students and teachers in a campus and kill themselves in the end, it would be nicer if they kills thousands of computers and the owners can spend some time with their families.

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[Anonymous Coward]

You assume of course that Stu is not clever enough to cover his tracks. The difficulty of doing that will of course depend on the level of auditing and monitoring going on in his (ex)workplace, so going by most I have seen it should not be too hard. Actually he may not even need to run software on a central server...it may be that if he sends the right IP message to each laptop on the right port, knowing the right codes to send, that he could shut them down remotely from some Internet cafe. Or from some convenient botnet.

Working in a support role in a telecoms company, I can say that the most damaging thing would not be to shut the whole lot down at once. Just shut down a random selection each day, enough to swamp the support staff with calls. Shutting them all down would get fixed quite quickly, but a smaller number will not make it so obvious what the root cause is. This is similar to the way that a bug that stops the code altogether will get found and fixed quite quickly, whereas one that just occasionally manifests itself will be much harder to find and so over a period of time may well cost a lot more.

Of course, the other danger for Stu is that some nasty bug manifests itself shortly after he left, without him having taken any malicious action at all. With some of the crappy stuff I have seen, that is not too improbable. Imagine trying to prove that you did not in fact leave some malicious code somewhere. Yes, you are innocent until proven guilty, good luck with that.

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[causality]

If people shoot at students and teachers in a campus and kill themselves in the end, it would be nicer if they kills thousands of computers and the owners can spend some time with their families.

I seem to have missed your point. If that relates to what I was discussing, may I ask you to explain how?

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[maxume]

My cell phone cost $30. I don't have a contract. It is prepaid (some people resent this for some reason), so I can't use it if I don't pay for some minutes. Minutes can be added by paying cash for a card at a store (and no personal info is required to activate the phone/minutes).

From what I can tell, the phones and minutes are only getting cheaper (if only by way of inflation).

So I don't think it is ever going to be difficult to go buy a phone. I guess if you want a high rent smart phone and want to finance it there might be some troubles.

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[FoxconnGuy]

Oops. I am simply trying to think positively for any pitfalls you tried (worried) to address.

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[Anonymous Coward]

More likely, imagine when Incompetent Stu, who barely passed his Microsoft certifications, accidentally exposes the web interface for the shutdown system to the public internet.

Similar end result though.

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[iYk6]

When HR comes around to fire Stu, he leaves his timebomb in place. The one that fires out the kill message to hundreds - nay - thousands of customers - and disables their leased laptops all at once.

Later that day, the company sues Stu for malicious destruction of property, lost business revenue, failure to fulfill a duty of care (remember, employees are actually expect to work for their employer, not against them).

Or Stu never gets caught, because he adequetely covered his tracks. Either way, Stu doesn't even have enough money to pay the company for damages.

The company will apologize profusely, give everyone a free week of service (maybe a month, depending on how the PR department sees this)

Yeah right. The customers would be lucky if the service provider gave you a number you could call to get a refund credited to your bill for the 2 days you were out of service. The phone waiting time will be 45 mins, the refund will be $3, and less than 10% of all customers will go through the hassle.

I like your idea of giving customers a free week, and it would probably be better for the company in the long run, but they would never actually do that.

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[causality]

Oops. I am simply trying to think positively for any pitfalls you tried (worried) to address.

There are no worries here, for I consider that to be a weakness, a way to suffer before anything bad has even happened. No one can see the folly of that and still want to do it. Besides, worry implies an element of uncertainty. There is no uncertainty about the fact that we have this nasty habit of concerning ourselves with outward symptoms and not the underlying problems that cause them. There is no uncertainty about the fact that there are better ways to live that don't require a person to feel like a victim. There is no uncertainty that another bad precedent is not in our interests.

To be honest, I still don't see how anything you have said relates to anything I have said. I have no problem saying that there may be some obvious connection that I am completely overlooking, because if that is true, then denying it won't solve anything. But that connection, if it exists, remains elusive to me.

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[Anonymous Coward]

This mechanism could enable hackers to implement a potentially large scale denial of service. Folks who have paid for a LAPTOP or cell phone could get locked out or otherwise be un-able to access their data.

I'll not be purchasing any products containing this mechanism or agreeing to anything like this ever.

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[FoxconnGuy]

Okay. I will be serious about this issue and in this single post, there is nothing related to my previous talk.

The real question, to me, is whether this is legal. The telco has to list this module as their property even when you are paying for this notebook.

If the telco has explained it explicitly, not hiding it in a thick agreement document, then *subscribers* are aware of the risk.

It is like when I own a house. If I don't pay my electric bill, the power company can not just break in and remove the power, instead, they can do it on their facility.

The issue to user is, whether you want to buy or to rent a house.

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[hab136]

Unfortunately, by the time Stu has run his timebomb, Stu has also had fractions of a cent transferred to a bank account in the Caymans and is now living somewhere in the Bahamas under the pseudonym Leonard Stumonias, Esquire.

But he still gets salt on his Margarita. He asked for no salt, no salt. He could burn this whole place down.

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[Anonymous Coward]

Or put stricknine in the guackamole!

I'll take my travelers checks to a competing resort

Re:Rogue Wireless Carrier SysAdmin

[causality]

The issue to user is, whether you want to buy or to rent a house.

That's a pretty good description. The real problem in my mind is that this rental model did not come about as a result of overwhelming customer demand, but rather, is being pushed onto customers. It is reminiscent of the various software-rental models that have come up from time to time. I also don't think most people appreciate that you ultimately pay more when you amortize a purchase -- they just seem to be looking at the monthly payment with little consideration for the total cost. Ultimately, we all stand to suffer a bit because Joe Sixpack refuses to think of these things, allowing them to become profitable/successful and commonplace.

semtex

[Reality Master 201]

Presumably, these new netbooks also have a strangely oily layer of orange material inside attached to the remote kill switch.

So whatever you do, don't cut the red wire.

Re:semtex

[TheGratefulNet]

So whatever you do, don't cut the red wire.

RED wire? no don't cut it.

shunt it to ground with a 2k resistor.

Re:semtex

[Hal_Porter]

Somewhere in the NSA a computer has just made a note that someone called Reality Master 201 knows the colour and texture of semtex.

He won't bother to write or phone you...

[JimXugle]

He'll just rip the still beating heart from your chest!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMP2dvGFUlk&fmt=18

Re:He won't bother to write or phone you...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just pray he never comes knocking at your door!

great feature ... for /everyone/!

[Anonymous Coward]

The feature could also be used to lock one's enemies out of the data on their laptops.

The feature could also be used to lock O[b,s]ama out of the data on his laptop.

The feature could also be used to lock YOU out of the data on YOUR laptop.

Re:great feature ... for /everyone/!

[Anonymous Coward]

The feature could also be used to lock O[b,s]ama out of the data on his laptop.

Yeah because they're really going to want to inform him that they found his laptop.

Re:great feature ... for /everyone/!

[Anonymous Coward]

except that, as has already been pointed out, no data is locked.
Just because a computer doesn't boot does not mean that any data is inaccessible.

Re:bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123794137545832713.html

It's real.

Re:bullshit

[Wiredin]

A cell tower or anything like that is not required. When dealing with most tote-your-note type lots they have a device that you enter a code in so that it wont deactivate the car. This code is received each time the customer makes payment

Great malware target

[clang_jangle]

This would make a great prank malware target. But the days of fun malware seem to be over, it's all about the Benjamins now...

Re:Great malware target

[Nitage]

That's definitely something criminals could exploit - knock out 1 in 1000 laptops, then "pay us $X thousand dollars, or all the laptops you gave away brick". A physical DOS attack. Think how much that could cost a company in terms of reputation and lost buisness, not to mention the inevitable lawsuits. For that reason alone I think this is an amazingly stupid idea.

Re:bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123794137545832713.html

It's real.

So are "a href" tags.

I predict

[taustin]

that within 5 minutes of the sale of the first such laptop, there will be 1,080,456 web sites with detailed, step by step instructions (with screen shots) on how to disable the feature, and at least ten times as many with instructions on how to physically remove the wireless moden.

And ten seconds after that, every single one of them will be slashdotted.

Re:I predict

[cstdenis]

And another 5 minutes later there will be instructions on how to send the kill signal to any laptop. Have fun bricking the laptops of anyone you don't like.

Re:I predict

[icebraining]

And people offering that service for a fee, as they did with PS1/2 chips.

Re:I predict

[fishbowl]

"Have fun bricking the laptops of anyone you don't like."

It's the only thing I thought about when I read the summary. The target isn't "bricking the laptops", it's permanently destroying that company's reputation. Their competitors are as motivated to crack this as anybody else.

Re:I predict

[jimicus]

at least ten times as many with instructions on how to physically remove the wireless moden.

That would be the wireless modem that allows you to get online and use a wireless internet service that you're obliged to pay a monthly fee for about 18 months to use?

Re:I predict

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. An always-on modem with access to a killswitch means I could hold your laptop hostage exactly the same way the legal 'owner' does.

I'm sure the managers say it will be unhackable. Expect a very short life for that product.

Re:I predict

[Renegrade]

Most people here seem to be talking about the dynamics of payments/non-payments, loans, stolen laptops, etc.

They completely missed the point that you nailed there - this adds a whole new dimension to "pwned".

I stand corrected

[Reality Master 201]

Never underestimate the depths of motherfuckertude people will sink to in order to get that dollar.

Re:I stand corrected

[Lehk228]

what's wrong with people selling a car wanting to get paid? it's not like the people getting one of those units have a good repayment history. these are people who would otherwise not get a loan at all.

Re:I stand corrected

[Anonymous Coward]

Devil's advocate here:

Usually I see cars outfitted with these devices (either remotely disabled, or requiring the car's driver to enter a PIN every week to month until payments are done) sold by used car dealers who are dealing with people with frighteningly bad credit histories.

I do not like the devices either, but if it means someone is able to purchase a vehicle to drive to work and back (who otherwise would be turned away due to poor credit) to keep a job, that is one less indigent off the tax rolls.

Re:I stand corrected

[couchslug]

"Usually I see cars outfitted with these devices (either remotely disabled, or requiring the car's driver to enter a PIN every week to month until payments are done) sold by used car dealers who are dealing with people with frighteningly bad credit histories."

The lot I help out at buys cheap cars at auctions, some of which had been repo'ed with the help of these little gizmos.

Dealers who deal with people with no credit often have a down payment that covers what they have in the car, so if the customer smashes it they still win. The guy I help out doesn't even check history or require full coverage insurance! He makes a very nice profit, sells vehicles at reasonable prices, and while he repos some he doesn't get excited about it because it isn't required for him to do well. The downturn may have hurt NEW car sales, but he does fine.

Re:I stand corrected

[Anonymous Coward]

what's wrong with people selling a car wanting to get paid? it's not like the people getting one of those units have a good repayment history. these are people who would otherwise not get a loan at all.

Because cars want to be free, like music, movies and software. Car dealers are the worst sort of scum, they have all those cars and they want you to PAY for them!!! Outrageous!!!!

Re:I stand corrected

[NateTech]

Ding. Correct. Pay up, slacker!

Re:I stand corrected

[pmarini]

with all the time that it tales to revert a mistake done by an overzealous employee or a conscious hacker, I'm not sure that it's really a good idea to have this kind of devices... just imagine if and when they've been putting them already, without users' knowledge, to things like printers and mobile phones...
it could bring the planet to a standstill...

Re:I stand corrected

[Anonymous Coward]

The sort of people who default on credit should be told get a bicycle. (Actually, we should all get bikes and get rid of the tin boxes, but...) I wouldn't sell a car to people with a bad credit history, I'd go the extra yards for the clients with good credit so they put about the word of mouth.

Telcos are faceless leviathans, not small businesses, so they don't give their staff the luxury of not making a sale simply because the it's doubtful the punter can afford the contract.

how precsiely will it work?

[ILuvRamen]

I'm not sure I'm clear on how they want this to work. Is it purely software or will the thing physically interrupt the power supply or will it do something to the BIOS? There's weaknesses and vulnerabilities to all three. Depending on how they do it, you could disable any software solution they use or just boot to Knoppix off a DVD and keep surfing the web and doing whatever :-) And if it's a hardware interrupt, crack it open and get out the soldering iron or hack saw. Or just take out the stupid part that's doing it!

Great. ANOTHER list...

[Anachragnome]

The list of companies to NOT do business with continues to grow.

Speak with your dollars, refuse to purchase devices from companies that have these modems installed, and these companies will no longer install them. Simple as that.

The next step is legislation that PRECLUDES companies from disabling purchased products, IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. Simply put, command-destruct/self-destruct functions should be illegal in ANY product. Legislation wouldn't be needed if everyone KNEW what these asshole companies do, but that is not going to happen since they(the manufacturers/sellers) will ALWAYS try to hide the fact of "limited ownership" until after purchase(and even after)

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not purchased if it's being subsidized as part of a MONTHLY CHARGE THAT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR PAYING FOR.

Once again, an undeserved sense of entitlement from a Slashdotter! It's yours when the contract is over. That's what you signed. Deal with it.

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[Anachragnome]

And what happens after the required "lease" runs out?

If you read the article, you would have noticed that after 2 years, the purchaser is FREE of any obligation to anyone(subsidizers), but the company with the kill switch STILL has the ability to push it.

"Once again, an undeserved sense of entitlement from a Slashdotter! It's yours when the contract is over. That's what you signed. Deal with it."

It isn't YOURS if someone can take it from you on a whim.

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's unproven speculation. You don't know how this will play out, and you don't know whether or not this "kill switch" will be disabled after your lease.

This place is so full of "WHAT IF?!?!?!" paranoia, and yet NONE OF IT EVER HAPPENS IN PRACTICE. NOT. EVER. Haven't any of you realized this by now?

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[Anachragnome]

That's what "they" told us about cell phones, yet when I go to another company for service, I am informed that the phone I purchased from my previous provider is UNUSABLE on other networks...YEARS after I purchased it.

So, I call bullshit.

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[Gible]

Yeah, but your monthly charges don't drop at the end of your contract do they?

Nor can you get a discounted plan for paying up front for the whole cost.

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[tepples]

And what happens after the required "lease" runs out?

New contracts eliminate the purchase portion of the lease-purchase agreement, stating that the hardware is not the customer's when the contract runs out. Instead, the customer returns the hardware to the cell phone company for a refund on his deposit.

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[tepples]

when I go to another company for service, I am informed that the phone I purchased from my previous provider is UNUSABLE on other networks...YEARS after I purchased it.

In the United States, this might be true because Verizon and Sprint use a Qualcomm CDMA stack, while AT&T and T-Mobile use GSM. Besides, contracts in the United States seldom guarantee the customer's right to remove the subsidy lock from the phone once the contract is over.

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[Anachragnome]

"In the United States, this might be true because Verizon and Sprint use a Qualcomm CDMA stack, while AT&T and T-Mobile use GSM. Besides, contracts in the United States seldom guarantee the customer's right to remove the subsidy lock from the phone once the contract is over."

That's all fine and dandy, had I been told such a "lock" was in place, permanently. Only problem was that I wasn't told(and yes, I looked at the contract I signed...tried for 2 years to get out of it). As a matter of fact, the clerk that sold me the service responded with "Of course!" when I specifically asked about taking my phone to another service after my contract ran out.

I now use that same cellphone to RECORD such conversations. One has to do what one has to do when they intentionally mis-bill you in order to renew your contract when you ask for a paper copy of the bill(considered an "added" service...which renews your contract).

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[couchslug]

"Simply put, command-destruct/self-destruct functions should be illegal in ANY product."

Future NASA launch safety officers will be equipped with a Really Large Catchers Mitt.

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[tzanger]

Nonsense. Neither of the GSM carriers in Canada will give you the MSL to unlock your phone, even after the contract has run out. It's their policy not to. We already know how this will play out.

I have zero problem with carriers locking the phones they're subsidizing. I have a big problem when they refuse to give you the keys to the lock when you've paid your dues.

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, what?? seriously?

Crap, I've got to read my agreement more carefully. Also, wasn't "lease the phone indefinitely" the business plan of the phone companies up to the early 1980s? Has the cell market revived that awful business plan under our noses?

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[diamondmagic]

The next step is legislation that PRECLUDES companies from disabling purchased products, IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. Simply put, command-destruct/self-destruct functions should be illegal in ANY product. Legislation wouldn't be needed if everyone KNEW what these asshole companies do, but that is not going to happen since they(the manufacturers/sellers) will ALWAYS try to hide the fact of "limited ownership" until after purchase(and even after)

Yes, let's support the nanny state! Why should it be illegal for me to purchase this, or for me to produce this, because you may personally disagree with it? If the remote disable is one way to lower the cost of my next laptop (and one with cellular Internet to boot), I might go for it. If one of us doesn't hold to our end of the contract (if they cut off my service), that is what the government is there to protect.

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[hab136]

That's all fine and dandy, had I been told such a "lock" was in place, permanently. Only problem was that I wasn't told(and yes, I looked at the contract I signed...tried for 2 years to get out of it). As a matter of fact, the clerk that sold me the service responded with "Of course!" when I specifically asked about taking my phone to another service after my contract ran out.

While some phones are indeed locked to a carrier (which the carrier can usually undo at the end of your contract), CDMA vs GSM is like diesel vs gasoline. They simply don't work together; it's a completely different technology.

You can move a phone from one CDMA carrier to another (Sprint, Verizon) or from one GSM carrier to another (AT&T, T-mobile) but not between the two types.

I now use that same cellphone to RECORD such conversations. One has to do what one has to do when they intentionally mis-bill you in order to renew your contract when you ask for a paper copy of the bill(considered an "added" service...which renews your contract).

Be sure you're notifying the other side that you're recording. Recording without both parties' consent is illegal in some states.

As for paper bill - why aren't you printing out the PDF? Way easier.

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[tepples]

Wait, what?? seriously?

April fools.

Crap, I've got to read my agreement more carefully.

Relax; there's no reliable source stating that a major U.S. cell carrier has implemented this change in business model.

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[tepples]

As for paper bill - why aren't you printing out the PDF?

Don't laser printers compatible with Free operating systems still cost more than the early termination fee?

Re:Great. ANOTHER list...

[hab136]

Don't laser printers compatible with Free operating systems still cost more than the early termination fee?

Yep. HP and Samsung makes some cheapo lasers that work with Linux, but they run non-Free drivers. If you insist on running only Free software, you will pay more for the printer.

Going off this list: http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/printers

HP LaserJet P1005 (non-Free) is $79: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16828115079
HP LaserJet P2055dn (Free) is $299: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16828115365

So yeah about $220 more, but at the same time the Free one is a much more powerful printer - 35 ppm vs 15 ppm, 1200x1200 vs 400x600, etc. The manufacturers save a fair amount of money by moving all the processing to the host, so really only workgroup printers support Postscript in hardware.

On the other hand, an old HP LaserJet 4 or 5 will be cheap on eBay and support Postscript in hardware.

If the only reason you have to print is to print out bills, then yeah I could see getting paper bills as an option - it depends on your motive. If you're trying to stay away from paper because you don't want to waste physical resources, well, you're just shifting the printing to someone else. The company's printing will no doubt be more efficient, but then you have to add transportation to your house, so I'm not sure you're actually conserving anything.

If you're just trying to save money and not buy printer/paper/toner, then paper bills will help you do that. So will mooching off a friend's/workplace printer, but I'm not sure I'd recommend that long term. :)

I get PDFs from the utilities/banks and just print them as needed (which is usually never). I traded my USPS post office box for a mail scanning/forwarding service (http://www.earthclassmail.com, they're awesome) so the few paper bills I get are actually turned into PDFs for me. About $140 a year (depends on volume of mail); by comparison a PO Box is $132 (depends on location, size).

Re:Data Thief? ... More likely after the laptop pa

[Anonymous Coward]

And encryption is always effective. http://xkcd.com/538/

A Slam-Dunk Prediction

[sehlat]

The RIAA/MPAA will be requiring such a capability as part of any "three-strikes" legislation. That will include felony charges for tampering with the hardware that makes the kill switch possible.

Re:A Slam-Dunk Prediction

[__aasqbs9791]

And then requiring it of all computers sold. Trusted Computing 2.0

Re:A Slam-Dunk Prediction

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

They call it "Son of Fritz Chip"...

Re:A Slam-Dunk Prediction

[cellurl]

Warner brothers just bought TPB for 13billion.
No kidding, go look! -cellurl

Re:A Slam-Dunk Prediction

[CodeBuster]

I would like to believe that you are merely joking, but after the DMCA (complete with numerous subsequent abuses) and know with Joe Biden and the RIAA lawyers in the driver seat over at the Department of Justice I definitely wouln't put that past them. I don't like Biden, I don't like his RIAA friends, and I don't trust any of them. IMHO, Obama was wrong to approve the RIAA all-star team for the Department of Justice and that decision could cost him big time in the next election with the young tech savvy crowd. The future of America is in a high tech economy, not Britney Spears and American Idol; anything which gets in the way of that endangers our collective economic future.

911?

[jgtg32a]

I was under the impression that all cell phones are required to be able to make 911 calls

Re:911?

[tagno25]

These are NOT cell phones, they are netbooks with cellular data connections.

Re:911?

[nurb432]

Doesn't apply to a laptop.

Re:911?

[jgtg32a]

Why did this get modded +5 Informative, I mean I obviously didn't read the article, and my comment was based solely off of the article title.

Stupid theives maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

Except a thief could always remove a hard disk and put it in another computer if they really want the data on the computer.

Compare to LoJack

[tepples]

Apart from the questionable legality, there's the expense (that'd take a cell connection with a monthly charge, or a big ol' broadcast tower)

I'd imagine that insurance companies pay for a chunk of it. Some major auto insurance companies already give a discount to the owner of a car equipped with a LoJack device.

Re:Compare to LoJack

[NateTech]

What a great business plan... hand out free DF'ing gear to cops, and get people to pay to have the transmitters installed in their cars... kick back and watch the cash roll in, and do NOTHING to actually find stolen vehicles. Awesome.

The cops get to play anytime their free in-car unit starts freaking out that someone's car is transmitting nearby (I've listened to three different jurisdictions chase the same car around the city for hours before on the scanner) and the owner eventually gets their car back, probably all screwed up anyway... and LoJack gets $ every month for the rest of their lives.

It's not that simple, of course -- but it's close. What would stop another LoJack like company from springing up and asking to put THEIR DF gear in the cop cars? How about ten LoJack companies? Ahh... this cop car dashboard is getting crowded.

I should feel outraged, but I'm more YDI

[Anonymous Coward]

If you buy a netbook that acts like a cell phone, I think you deserve all the lockdown bullshit that comes with them.

Just don't buy the damn things.

Re:I should feel outraged, but I'm more YDI

[Hal_Porter]

True, you can always pony up the $200-$300 bucks up front and buy the laptop and sort out the data yourself.

Compare to Xbox 360 hard drives

[tepples]

That's a lot of R&D to put into proprietary interfaces when whole-disk encryption with off-the-shelf components is a lot easier to deploy.

Yet Microsoft put the R&D into the Xbox 360 game console's proprietary hard drive interface.

Re:Compare to Xbox 360 hard drives

[HTH NE1]

Yet Microsoft put the R&D into the Xbox 360 game console's proprietary hard drive interface.

Microsoft is Microsoft. A rent-to-own company is not Microsoft.

Re:Compare to Xbox 360 hard drives

[NoobixCube]

No, they're a "buy it and use it the way we tell you, you own nothing" company. Otherwise they wouldn't have EULAs on all their software and hardware.

Re:Compare to Xbox 360 hard drives

[Anonymous Coward]

Name a single piece of software that doesn't have an EULA.

Just by the fact that the software is copyrighted, there is, by definition, and End User License Agreement.

Re:Compare to Xbox 360 hard drives

[tepples]

Name a single piece of software that doesn't have an EULA.

GNU Emacs. The use of free software is governed by copyright statute, including 17 USC 117 and foreign counterparts that authorize the owner of a lawfully made copy of a computer program to load it into RAM. Licenses affect only the distribution of free software.

Re:Compare to Xbox 360 hard drives

[haroldK]

Yet Microsoft put the R&D into the Xbox 360 game console's proprietary hard drive interface.

Their hard drive interface is strictly SATA. The drive has the drive model and serial numbers written to sectors 16-22 signed by MS. If those sectors don't match what the drive firmware reports, the Xbox doesn't report the drive as attached. You can pull the drive out of the MS casing and use it just like any other 2.5" SATA drive, but unless you make a backup of sectors 16-22 on the drive, you're not going to get the Xbox to recognize it again.

  I'm guessing it took MS about 10 minutes to come up with that one.

Re:Compare to Xbox 360 hard drives

[Killjoy_NL]

Now name a single piece of GOOD software that doesn't have an EULA ;)

Re:Compare to Xbox 360 hard drives

[HTH NE1]

Just by the fact that the software is copyrighted, there is, by definition, and End User License Agreement.

You shouldn't buy your dictionaries from the Business Software Alliance. Their definitions have embedded propaganda.

A Malware Writer's Dream!

[Anonymous Coward]

So - let me get this straight... a remote command that can disable anyone's hardware?
And you thought worms like conficker were bad?
Way to go Ericsson!

They better have used some heavy duty digital signatures or something...

Re:A Malware Writer's Dream!

[NoobixCube]

It sounds almost as wonderful as allowing websites to take control of and install software on your computer with Active X, with or without the user's knowledge or consent! Wonderful innovation coming from the minds of our mercantile masters!

VoIP 911

[tepples]

These are NOT cell phones, they are netbooks with cellular data connections.

Then wouldn't all low-cost subnotebooks with cellular data connections be required to be able to make 911 calls over SIP?

Re:VoIP 911

[Anonymous Coward]

Then wouldn't all low-cost subnotebooks with cellular data connections be required to be able to make 911 calls over SIP?

Doesn't apply to VoIP services.

Re:VoIP 911

[Sir_Lewk]

......No?

Why would you even think that?

Re:Data Thief? ... More likely after the laptop pa

[Hognoxious]

In your rush to sell your karma pussy on the street corner of moderation you appear to have confused "thief" and "kidnapper", you bastard imbecuntcile.

MiniPCI

[chill]

On the Dell Mini 9 I opened the other day to add RAM, the 3G modem was a miniPCI card.

1. Buy subsidized netbook.
2. Remove miniPCI card modem
3. Cancel credit card
4. Resell netbook at markup.
5. Profit!

A few more steps than the Gnomes, but it works.

Re:MiniPCI

[LunaticTippy]

They run a credit check when you buy a subsidized phone. You have to provide a SSID and driver's license and everything. I guess you could get away with it a few times but it would trash your credit and you would owe them money.

If you want to run a scam and don't care about ruining your credit you're better off getting a stack of credit cards and buying gold with them.

abused

[Joebert]

Yeah because some pimple-faced kid isn't going to get bored and start killing peoples netbooks for fun.

This is an early April Fools day joke right ?

The Black Hat community is grinning Ear to Ear...

[MightyBot]

Can't wait to see what havoc a script kiddie can cause in Starbucks when he effectively locks half the crowd out of their netbooks...

I also wonder if an individual or corporation could sue Ericsson for lost profits if a disgruntled telco employee shuts everyone's netbooks off.

How about just unhooking the cellular antenna / ca

[Joe The Dragon]

How about just unhooking the cellular antenna / card so the system can't get the shut off code it's no loss as you are not paying for the data link and getting no data over it anyways.

Re:bullshit

[DrMrLordX]

That's how many of the early devices worked. A former used car sales company known as Nice Cars (which went bankrupt in a huge books-cooking scandal not too long ago) was one of the regional pioneers near where I live.

Nowadays I think some have switched to GPS devices.

Re:Data Thief? ... More likely after the laptop pa

[retchdog]

imbecuntcile

This almost passes as German...

Penny wise, pound foolish

[CoolCalmChris]

Disregarding the lockout factor completely...let's say I buy this netbook for 100 bucks and commit to a two year plan at $60/mo. Without tax that adds up to $1640 over two years, and that's not figuring in depreciation, loss, damage, etc. In the end, I'd be kicking myself in the ass while wishing that I had bought a 300 dollar netbook and used free public wifi (which isn't that hard to find where I live). Not to mention that most of the things that I would do on a netbook (email, IM, social networking) can just as easily be done on a cell phone....which is why I'm confident that these Radio Shack/AT&T subsidized netbooks with shady plans will probably sell like hotcakes.

Re:Penny wise, pound foolish

[Logic Worshipper]

If you were going to pay the $60 a month anyway, because you need internet access everywhere for some reason (say you're a travailing system administrator, or a professor at a collage that doesn't have wifi), the phone company giving you the hardware is just icing on the cake.

However if having internet access everywhere is that important to someone, a cheap netbook probably won't be their choice for hardware. Especially not with this kill switch installed.

Here's what happens to missing computers...

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is a true story, that is probably quite common...

My daughter took a part time job at a jewelry store, where much of the business appears to be more along the lines of a pawn-shop... times being what they are, and all. At any rate a lot a people "sell stuff". The store owner is an upstanding guy, and does all the proper paperwork, cooperates when the police come around, etc, etc...

Anyhoo, one day my daughter calls and asks me (the resident geek) is there an easy way to "reset" a computer to remove the "personalized" stuff? I said, sure, do you have the installation disc it came with... not knowing it was a "work" related question.

"Um, no. It is a computer 'Bob' bought from some girl.".

I opined that the computer just might be stolen, and my daughter said, "yeah, it seems kind of sketchy, the girl was named 'Amy', but the computer login is 'Pam'... but we have a copy of Amy's license and everything, like we are supposed to." I said it would be real nice to make a backup copy of anything that looked important, just in case Pam came looking for her computer...

I don't know what they ended up doing, probably not much, other than putting a price tag on it. In my AC opinion, most people don't have any data worth stealing, and most crooks are probably just after little drug money.

Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Anonymous Coward]

Folks:

I am about to celebrate my 31st year without owning a car! That means no car payments!

I survive using a bicycle and public transit.

And before any of you whine, that also means that I commute 20 miles each way (40 miles per day) on a bicycle to and from work. That includes a 1,000 foot elevation hill each way.

Yes. It can be done.

And yes, it meant that I lost 45 pounds of fat, am trim, and look about 10 years younger than my age.

And I have not called in sick at work for about 25 years!

So, that means that if a car has an automatic kill modem in them, all it means is that the owner might as well start getting healthy and ride a bicycle instead!

Luv

Cleara

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Aardpig]

Riding a bicycle through a few feet of snow just doesn't work for me. Thanks for your input, though.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[The Dancing Panda]

You must be very popular at work, sweatstain...

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[lena_10326]

Try managing with a bicycle with 2 kids, $300 trips to Costco, and doctor's appointments. You wouldn't last 1 day on a bike in that scenario... or even the bus slash taxi for that matter.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[deets101]

And I have not called in sick at work for about 25 years!

I would have called in sick every day!

Here in Texas a 20 mile bike ride is not the way to start out the work day, unless you are in the shower business.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow - your time must not be worth much to you.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[j_sp_r]

Do it two weeks and you won't sweat any more.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Dan541]

But some of us actually have important things to do and places to be.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Ihlosi]

Here in Texas a 20 mile bike ride is not the way to start out the work day, unless you are in the shower business.

All you need is a place to shower at work and a locker room. If you're planning on a 20 mile bike ride to work, then those five minutes for taking a shower and changing into your work clothes shouldn't be a problem.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[knarf]

Funny that. I live in rural Sweden, hilly country studded with trees and frosty in wintertime. I do my shopping in a village about 15 km to the south of here. I have a daughter I bring to 'dagis' (playschool) every day. On a bike. The shopping goes in the trailer, the daughter in the seat on the back. To blindly state that 'you would not last a day on a bike in that scenario' just shows that you are so blindsided by having access to a car that for you that car is the ONLY means of transport. No matter that elsewhere on this planet billions of people get by without having access to cars.

Try it for a change. I realise that the US is not the best country for cyclists but then again neither is Sweden. Still, it is possible, and by using that bike instead of a car you not only save a lot of money and birds and bees and trees and lives but you also get that workout which you now have to pay the fitness center or sports school for. Not to mention the good example you'll give your two kids. Raise them on cars and they'll become just like you - car-dependent. Raise them on bikes and they'll become aware themselves.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[BiAthlon]

I would mod you +1 "You're right but nobody that drives to work wants to believe you" if I could.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Anonymous Coward]

While I generally agree with you, I have a 41km drive to work, one way. This expands by another 20km if I chose to bike, and I take my life in my own hands as I have to bike on the shoulder (no side walk) of 4-lane roads with drivers who are more interested in their DVD player and cell phone than actually paying attention to the road.

What would be the better solution is rapid transit, aka trains.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Auroch]

hahah, yeah right. You know canada is big too. As in, It takes me 45 minutes driving to get to school. And that is in the SAME CITY.

Good luck on a bike.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[mrgarci1]

Ride an electric bike. I commute on one in Phoenix every day, don't have to worry about being sweaty when I get to work (even in our consistently 115f summers), fast enough to make it to your "important" things (faster than city traffic at most times of day), and doesn't burn hydrocarbons for fuel. It's self-absorbed folks like yourself who think their lives are somehow more important than everyone else that are the problem - everyone faces challenges every day, and everyone has deadlines to meet. And let's not even get into the "live locally" discussion - if you have to drive 50 miles one way to get from your home to your place of business, you're doing it wrong. You probably spend more money on fuel in a year just getting to work than I spend on all my electricity (including charging my electric transportation, heating/cooling my house, cooking, slashdotting, etc.) for the same time period.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Anonymous Coward]

All you need is a place to shower at work and a locker room. If you're planning on a 20 mile bike ride to work, then those five minutes for taking a shower and changing into your work clothes shouldn't be a problem.

Of course since most places of business don't have a shower and locker room, whether it would take 5 minutes or 5 hours out of my day to shower and change doesn't really matter.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[digitalsolo]

I like the concept but it just isn't applicable everywhere.

9-10 weeks ago it was -19* F here, before windchill. With wind it was somewhere around -50* F. I live about 20 miles from my office. I'm in fairly good shape, and there is no way I could safely bike that in those temperatures, simply not possible. 8-10" of snow also cause a bit of an issue, especially when one must share the road with cars that cannot safely control themselves, let alone be concerned with my safety.

I love cycling, and at a point in my life used to do a solid 30-40 miles daily. That doesn't mean it's universally practical, though I agree completely that cycling could and should be much better utilized.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Bigjeff5]

A lot of people up here, in Alaska, do it every winter. They get these huge, fat tires with studs all over them for their bikes and cruise on in to work every day.

Not kidding.

I think they are nuts, but if you layer up properly even -20 isn't so bad...

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in the Chicago area suburbs and when I was much younger I tried to use my bicycle to get to work, go shopping, and visit my friends. I nearly got killed on multiple occasions. The roads are simply not made to accommodate bicycle traffic or even pedestrian traffic for that matter. I gave up after a few months and bought my first car. Now I only ride my bike on designated trails for pleasure, not necessity.

Rural US is even worse. 15 km is small potatoes to the distance some people have to travel to go to work or go shopping (try 50+ mi/80+ km) and you are often sharing small, two or one lane country roads without any shoulder with large trucks and/or idiots traveling at excessive speed.

I've visited Sweden, it's a very lovely country, but not like the US at all with regard to transportation infrastructure. In the US unless you live in the downtown area of a major city it's virtually impossible to be able to hold down a decent job or tackle any of life's major necessities without a car. While there is public transportation here it's largely relegated to the major cities and extremely limited in scoped when compared with cities in Europe.

Sad, but true.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[drinkypoo]

No matter that elsewhere on this planet billions of people get by without having access to cars.

It is not safe to ride where cars are driven. You can make your own decisions about safety. Most places in the US it's tantamount to suicide. There are few bicycle deaths, but that's mostly because the average person does not ride for transportation. If you live a hundred miles from work because it's cheaper then it's fair to say the country is fucked up, but it doesn't change the fact that the bicycle won't help you support your family in that situation.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Golddess]

Even in 100 degree weather with high humidity?

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Golddess]

That's what I thought at first (well, not that GP's time isn't worth much, but that GP must spend a lot of time commuting), but presuming that GP is an average cyclist, that's less than an hour commute (one way). I know people who commute by car with longer commute times.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Anonymous Coward]

2 kids and $300 worth of costco goods would not fit on a bike, hell even a small compact would have a rough time.

Since you're in Sweden you may not know what a Costco is.. its where you can get a jar of mayo the size and weight of a bowling ball for $10. Costco is for buying in bulk. You can't fit $100 worth of costco goods into the trailer on a bike, let alone 2 kids and $300 worth.

There really are just some situations that are impossible to handle without a car. The bike was only designed to handle low load situations, once you get beyond that you have to look at other alternatives and unfortunately, cars are the best option in most cases. This is not indoctrination of car use, its pragmatism. To simulate the situation presented earlier, try adding another kid and about 100 lbs worth of groceries to your daily ride and see how far you go.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Tmack]

...To simulate the situation presented earlier, try adding another kid and about 100 lbs worth of groceries to your daily ride and see how far you go.

I think the fact you seemingly require 100lbs+ of Costco crap, where he does not is itself very telling. I do just fine without bulk buying from Costco or WalMart, and can do most grocery trips by bike. Most times a large backpack is enough, though panniers and a rack to hold more helps when I need more than basics. Try more frequent smaller capacity trips. I manage to get by with one ~30min trip (rt, couch to kitchen) a week. It takes far less time than driving the extra distance to the bulk buy facility (Costco, Sams club, etc), wandering around an enormous warehouse trying to find what you need, loading a cart full of crap half of which will spoil before it gets used, loading it all into a car, then unloading and trying to organize it all. The nearest CostCo is at least 10mi away, Safeway is only 2 and doesnt require an annual fee for the privilege of shopping there.

Location and street conditions do play a factor, as I know certain parts of Atlanta would be almost suicidal to ride a bike to the store, though most areas have back road ways of bypassing the major highways.

Im not sure what bike trailer you have seen, but the Bob brand is rated to 70Lbs, and the Burley Nomad can do 100Lbs+ with 8000cu.in capacity. You can also add on a Xtracycle extension to carry your 2 kids (pic of it on their main page: Xtracycle.com). Granted, doing this while living on a Mountain is probably not ideal, but still not impossible.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[j_sp_r]

No, then your blood boils

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

"Raise them on bikes and they'll become aware themselves."

No they won't.

I didn't have a car until age 25, had to bike or rely on rides to get where I was going. I lived in an area with NO public transportation, not even the unreliable crap where I currently live.

Riding a bike sucked. It meant I didn't get to date for the most part. It meant I was sweaty and nasty when I got where I was going. It pretty much ruined my early 20's. Yea I was in pretty good shape, but unless I wanted to date trailer trash I was out of luck.

I learned from that to NEVER ride a bike again now that I have a car. The weather here sucks. It's either to hot by far to commute (or go out and not wind up disgustingly sweaty) or there's thunderstorms. NOt going to ride through THOSE again ever.

Now I work from home. I don't have to worry about commuting (unless I want to work from somewhere else) but I will never again ride a bicycle other than for exercise. It's not safe to do it here, and it's not comfortable. And yea, comfortable is important to me.

So no, raising your kids on bikes will not train them to ride bikes if it's not an area where that's really a reasonable tactic.

Side note, I was recently in England, and if we had buses and trains where I live in the states like what I saw there, I wouldn't own a car.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

Screw that. A 20 mile bike trip to work is already going to burn to many minutes of my time. When I still worked at an office, I was one of the FEW in the area that had the option to shower, but it didn't have the privacy that I would insist on. No I don't go to gyms, and no I don't dig getting naked with dudes. It's not even close to a scenario that I would accept if I was still commuting. Hell a 20 mile commute in my CAR was longer than I wanted to deal with. I figure a bike is going to wind up being at LEAST 4 times longer, and completely uncomfortable and MUCH more dangerous.

If I lived in Europe, sure. Here in the states, no. Fuck that. I have things to do with my free time. I don't need to fill the entire time up commuting. I sure as fuck don't get PAID for commuting.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Grishnakh]

1) Why would anyone want to waste extra time going back and forth to the supermarket, just so they can carry small loads on their bicycle? It's more efficient to make one trip. Do you think trucks should also be abandoned, and businesses should transport large cargo by motor scooter using many small loads? Yeah, that'd be real efficient.

2) One container of kitty litter weighs 40 pounds. That alone is a single bike trip. Kitty litter doesn't spoil, and neither does most stuff you'd buy at Costco, such as frozen goods. Or do you Europeans have so much money that you can afford to eat out all the time, instead of stocking your kitchens with enough food to feed a family?

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Grishnakh]

I think these ignorant Europeans are completely missing the fact that the weather here in the USA is nothing like the weather in Europe (mild), except in California. Here in Arizona, it's over 100 (F) every day in the summer, and any physician will tell you that exerting yourself in those conditions is extremely unhealthy and a good way to die of heatstroke. In other parts of the country (and in Canada), it's well under 0 (F) for a large part of the year. Again, it's dangerous to be outside for too long in those conditions. In those places, it's routine for frozen corpses to be discovered every spring when the snow melts.

Don't forget that our midwestern states live under constant threat of tornadoes (which are pretty hard to outrun on a bike), our southeast states under threat of hurricanes, and snow storms and ice storms are commonplace on the east coast.

Europe simply doesn't have the weather extremes that the USA does, unless you go someplace like Iceland or northern Scandinavia, and what works there is just foolish to contemplate here.

What we really need here in the USA is a PRT (Personal Rapid Transit) system, such as the SkyTran, where small, automated cars can transport people back and forth to work every day on maglev rails. Roads can be kept around for trucks and the less-frequent car trips for shopping, but the bulk of travel being moved to SkyTran cars would massively reduce the congestion on roads, greatly reducing the need for expensive maintenance, construction (don't need so many freeway lanes now), and medical services for accidents.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[lena_10326]

To blindly state that 'you would not last a day on a bike in that scenario' just shows that you are so blindsided by having access to a car that for you that car is the ONLY means of transport.

Have you experienced winter in the northern United States? Umm... no thanks. By the way, many rural roads here don't have much of a shoulder or sidewalk so good luck in finding a path to ride your bike with all the ice, snow and slush--not to mention 4x4 trucks often have a hard time getting through. You'll walk instead? Oh darn.. forgot about trudging through 18 inches (46 cm) of snow. Oh yea watch out for sliding cars heading in your direction at about.. ooooh.. 45-60 mph (72-97 km/h) zipping by you about 1-2 feet (~0.5 m) off your left shoulder.

Try it for a change. I realise that the US is not the best country for cyclists but then again neither is Sweden. Still, it is possible

You don't live here so you ought not to be making those types of judgments about a place in which you don't live. Switching to a bike is not possible in large parts of USA. That is if you actually want to show up to work or school on time without being soaked in rain, mud, or sweat. Don't forget the sun block in summer--don't wanna get the cancer.

you also get that workout which you now have to pay the fitness center or sports school for

I have an elliptical exercise machine. No thanks.

Maybe the slashmods are right and your comment truly is insightful, but I confess I'm skeptical. What you're selling is nothing more than a fantasy completely disconnected from reality.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[knarf]

Europe simply doesn't have the weather extremes that the USA does, unless you go someplace like Iceland or northern Scandinavia

Did you read where I live?

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[knarf]

Oh, I've been in the US allright... many times, and in many places... hence my comment on it not being the best place to ride a bike. Then again, as I already said, neither is Sweden - you might want to read up about this part of Europe to get an idea of what I'm talking about before you make any comments on what it is like. And as far as selling a fantasy... I don't have anything to sell but have lived in this 'disconnected fantasy' for, well, forever really. So maybe, just maybe you might be a little bit off the mark in that respect? Maybe the US is not all that different from other parts of the world after all? Maybe all those reasons I'm seeing for not hauling your behinds out of the car seat onto a bike saddle are somewhat far-fetched?

And with regards to arriving at work 'soaked in rain, mud or sweat'... The rain is kept out by raingear, as is the mud. The sweat is real and washes off. Take a shower. If there is no shower at your workplace get them to install one. It will make for healthier employees... And if you live more than an hour's ride from your work you might want to see if there is any public transport which can help. If there isn't, OK, in that case you might be stuck to driving that car.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Dan541]

Self absorbed?

The only person being self absorbed here is yourself it is arrogant pricks like you who think they are better than everyone else that cause problems, not those of us who are going about our daily lives.

"if you have to drive 50 miles one way to get from your home to your place of business, you're doing it wrong."
Excuse me for having a job, 50miles is hardy long distance, the closest I have ever worked to home is probably 40 miles, if you give me the money I will happily buy another house closer to work.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[X0563511]

I used to do that in Maine, to get to my friends house.

Sure, it wasn't -20, but -10 through +20 is still pretty damned cold.

With the right gear (a paintball mask, hood, scarf to cover the vents... etc) even sleet was no obstacle. Even if I fell off, there was so much padding I couldn't get hurt! (j/k, but you know)

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[knarf]

I think...

Good, that is always a good sign!

...these ignorant Europeans

But you were doing so well just now! Why this sudden relapse?

Anyway, how many tornadoes did you outrun in your car recently? And hurricanes, any luck staying in front of one of those in your holy cow? Ice storms? Snow storms? Soon you'll be telling me about the terrrrrist storms haunting you there way down yonder.

But that is all besides the point. Here in Ye Olde Worlde we might not have all those horrible tornado-hurricanes chasing us up and down the motorways, but you know what? In wintertime it snows here! And in spring and autumn it storms! And it rains! O how it does storm and rain and snow somtimes, meters (that would be yards + 10%) of the stuff. And still... we silly Euro's pedal around on our iron horses through all thay mayhem - and we survive!

Of course I'm not advocating you cycling through Death Valley day in day out. But you know as well as I do that the majority of those driving their Detroit Iron between the sofa and the Costco and the Office are doing that in normal western hemispherical athmospherical conditions.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[Grishnakh]

Again, you show yourself to be a judgmental fool.

Here in Phoenix, every single day I drive to work, for half the year, the temperature outside is over 100F, frequently over 110. Ask any doctor; it is NOT healthy to ride in those conditions. That's a good way to get heatstroke, and people die here every summer from that.

You say it snows there. Whoopee. Does it get down to 40 below (F or C, take your pick) every day? In places like Minnesota, that's perfectly normal. I'd like to see you ride your bike in -40 weather. You could even bring your kids with you on the back, and then figure out how to thaw them out when you get to your destination.

Re:Can't pay for your car? Ride a bicycle!

[knarf]

Tell me, why do you take this so personal? Read again what I wrote: 'you know as well as I do that the majority of those driving their Detroit Iron between the sofa and the Costco and the Office are doing that in normal western hemispherical athmospherical conditions' and see if that rhymes with your descriptions of horrific conditions in either Phoenix or Minnesota. The continental US generally is not exposed to either of those extremes. The majority of drivers drives through weather which their doctors will not complain about. Why bring up the extremes when you know as well as many others that those are not the norm? I can give you some extremes of weather here in Europe which would make your heart boil and your ears freeze off but who cares about those? When it is -40C you won't see me on my bike. When it is +37C you will, but I'll take it slowly. Fortunately neither of those happen all to often, although they do happen sometimes. Generally it is somewhere in between - just like it is in the large majority of the US.

This is not some pissing contest between 'ignorant Europeans' and 'dumb Americans'. It is just a matter of common sense. Throwing around expletives - of the verbal or meteorilogical kind - does not help in any way.

Re:You can cancel?

[Aardpig]

I've had this exact same problem with Chase. I closed an account with them; a few months later, Virgin Mobile decided to charge me for some pay-as-you-go airtime, despite the fact that I had deleted my CCard info from my Virgin account a while before. Chase honored this transaction and sent me a bill. I had to yell very loudly at both of them.

Hope it's not used by a professional...

[gillbates]

Not that I'd buy one of these, but suppose, for example, that I do. And suppose, furthermore, that because of some screwup with my bank, or human error (oops, transposed two CC digits!), my bill doesn't get paid.

I'm charging clients $100 an *hour*. If you disable my laptop for even a single 8 hour day, you owe *me* money.

Did they think of that? Did it occur to them that if this functionality *accidentally* gets tripped, the lawsuit could easily erase not just the profit on the modem and the service, but the laptop as well?

Or, to put it another way: why would someone sell a laptop (on contract) to someone who can't afford a cellphone?

Re:Hope it's not used by a professional...

[Corporate Troll]

(oops, transposed two CC digits!)

That's what checksums are for....

Re:Hope it's not used by a professional...

[Ihlosi]

Did they think of that?

Read the stack of paperwork that comes with the contract. I bet it says something along the lines of "We are not liable for any damages that the deactivation of the device for whatever reason causes.". That should qualify as "thinking of it".

Re:Hope it's not used by a professional...

[netscan]

I have a bettor idea for you, spend a couple of those billable hours and buy the lappy outright! Then you don't have to worry about them turning it off for not paying your bill. Oh wait, you were just shooting off at the mouth, carry on.

Extra Features

[mixmastabinder]

"The new Ericsson modem can also stay active while a computer is off, listening for wireless messages. That means it could wake up and alert the user when it receives an important e-mail, or if someone is calling with a conferencing application like Skype."

That also means it could constantly drain your battery. Please tell me this is just an option.

Re:bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea slashdot can't auto mark those in. It's so 90s.

Re:You can cancel?

[Achromatic1978]

Your account was OPEN at the time you made the charges. Why should transactions be retroactively declined because you CHOSE to close the account at a later date? Remember that credit card slip? You know, the one that says "I agree to pay this account as per my merchant agreement" or words to that effect. You know, the one you signed that said you'd honor your contractual obligations for your credit card that says explicitly that they are allowed to reopen the account to reconcile such transactions?

That being said, NSFing your account as a result is a bit harsh.

Hmmm - More business opportunities

[Anonymous Coward]

£50 gets that modem taken out of your laptop and replaced with one without the kill-switch.

They can have my cells when ...

[Ihlosi]

oh wait ... this is about cellphones.

Nevermind.

Re:You can cancel?

[Technician]

You know, the one that says "I agree to pay this account as per my merchant agreement" or words to that effect.

When he changed cards and canceled service, the unauthorized billing was the problem.

Ever cancel a service and still get billed for it? I had this problem with the dead tree edition of the news a while back. They threatened collections. I mentioned for them to provide collections with a copy of the current contract that was established after the cancellation. I never heard from collections, but I did still continue to receive a bill for 6 months. Maybe they hoped I would slip and pay it.

Important?

[Zalminen]

...and usually those 'important' things aren't really that important when you stop to think about it.

Hell, some people drive a car to the nearest gym, then spend the next hour on the exercise bike...

Re:Important?

[Dan541]

Actually they are important, my car is used to get places I need to be with a busy timetable.

Who are you to say what is or is not important?

Yes, there is some questionable logic if somebody drives to a gym to use a bike especially since they then pay an expensive membership to use it to go nowhere. But many of us do not have any alternative but to drive our own cars, myself included.

Today is April fools day

[Anonymous Coward]

Some great discussion but of course all slashdotters would have spotted the obvious errors. Ericsson don't even make the chipsets any more. They sold their mobile platforms business into a JV with ST micro electronics to form ST-Ericsson. I guess no one wanted to spoil the fun by checking out www.stericsson.com but its after noon in my part of the world so I don't mind.

Virus war

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, how long would it also take for a virus to come out and start disabling laptops? I am sure it is possible to do such a thing now. But this sounds way too easy for future script kiddies to start killing laptops.

Re:Virus war

[cyrano.mac]

It is not as easy as a Windows virus. GSM phones have had the kill feature since the dawn of GSM. All providers stopped using it after some wholesale phone trader cloned the IMEI number and firmware from a phone in Denmark to about a thousand phones sold in Spain. When the original phone got stolen in Denmark, a thousand people in Spain were wondering why their phone stopped working. After that, ALL providers I know about, abandoned the idea, but the system is still present in every GSM. So, even if it sounds like a good idea at first, reality already proved it wasn't too bright. I'm pretty sure Ericsson made a similar system, wich can only be activated from the network. Up until now, no GSM virus has been able to activate the kill switch, AFAIK. Of course, this doesn't mean it's not possible, just a lot harder than making a Windows virus. And, there's no real incentive. You can't make money that way, and that's the direction all malware seems to be taking lately.

Won't work to protect data

[stanjam]

As someone noted, this isn't fool proof, especially as suggested to protect laptops from companies from theft, that they could get locked up, thereby protecting the company. If the idea is to protect the data, then this alone is ineffective, as the hard drive can be removed and read remotely (if some way to bypass the lockdown isn't found first). Not to mention that since the lockdown likely requires Internet access, a potential data thief simply has to NOT connect the laptop to the Internet. Encryption remains the only viable means of protecting data on devices. It is simple, inexpensive step to take, and yet companies still do not do it. Why would they be looking forward to extra cost added, ineffective features when they don't even use the ones available to them?

Used to live in PA...and MD is the same way.

[Benanov]

Maryland also holds the title.

Thankfully when I started switching states my car was paid off.

I need this

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh I need this code. I bet it will come in handy

Missing information

[Hognoxious]

Before we can decide whether this is good or bad, we really need to know whether Apple are doing it too.

Just like an iPhone, Right?

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't a locked iPhone become useless if the cell service is turned off?

Re:You can cancel?

[Achromatic1978]

It wasn't unauthorized. He charged the account WHILE THE ACCOUNT WAS OPEN. It doesn't become "unauthorized" because at a date later on, he canceled his card prior to reconciliation being complete.

By your definition, it's your perfect right to find a merchant who you know batches transactions, charge a nice big ticket purchase to your card, run home, call bank, cancel card, and then because the batch is reconciled later, scream "UNAUTHORIZED!". I think not.

It is VERY DIFFERENT from your second example, which IS unauthorized. In this case, the gas station would have placed a pre-auth on his card for the gas sale, and then reconciled it with an auth later. HE pre-authorized the card charge by using it in the transaction. It wasn't a later transaction that he didn't authorize, it was the same one.

No good software in popular Linux distros?

[tepples]

Now name a single piece of GOOD software that doesn't have an EULA ;)

Is this supposed to imply that no GOOD software is in Debian main or Ubuntu main?

Re:No good software in popular Linux distros?

[Killjoy_NL]

Read my comment again and take note of the winky thingy at the end of the sentence ;)

April fool?

[tepples]

Why would you even think that?

Because they operate over the same network as cell phones. Also because it was already April Fools Day in the UK when I posted.

Document it?

[tepples]

HP and Samsung makes some cheapo lasers that work with Linux, but they run non-Free drivers. [...] The manufacturers save a fair amount of money by moving all the processing to the host, so really only workgroup printers support Postscript in hardware.

Just because they make bitmap printers doesn't mean they can't document the wire interface to print a bitmap. If they did, the free software community could put together a CUPS driver that uses Ghostscript, a GPL interpreter for the PostScript language, and have it run even on a low-cost subnotebook that relies on a USB cellular card for its Internet access. So why don't they?

Re:Document it?

[hab136]

Just because they make bitmap printers doesn't mean they can't document the wire interface to print a bitmap. If they did, the free software community could put together a CUPS driver that uses Ghostscript, a GPL interpreter for the PostScript language, and have it run even on a low-cost subnotebook that relies on a USB cellular card for its Internet access. So why don't they?

Good question.

Costs:
- engineer's and tech writer's time

Risks:
- Documentation may reveal mistakes/exploits/patent infringement
- Documentation may give out "valuable intellectual property" (it won't, but this is the thinking)

Rewards:
- Some dudes might write a driver, and the driver might sell more printers

Now if you were the boss, you'd look at the costs and risks, and assign them a dollar amount and probability. Then you look at the rewards, and assign them a probable dollar amount. Most likely, even the certain costs of the documentation are going to be less than the rewards of a few more printers sold, without even considering the possible costs of the risks.

TLDR version: it's not worth it financially