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Texas Senate Proposes a Budget With a No-Vista-Upgrades Rider

CWmike writes "The Texas state Senate yesterday gave preliminary approval to a state budget that includes a provision forbidding government agencies from upgrading to Windows Vista without written consent of the legislature. Sen. Juan Hinojosa, vice chairman of the Finance Committee, proposed the rider because 'of the many reports of problems with Vista ... We are not in any way, shape or form trying to pick on Microsoft, but the problems with this particular [operating] system are known nationwide,' Hinojosa said during a Senate session debating the rider (starting at 4:42 of this RealMedia video stream). 'And the XP operating system is working very well.' A Microsoft spokeswoman said in response, 'We're surprised that the Texas Senate Finance Committee adopted a rider which, in effect, singles out a specific corporation and product for unequal treatment. We hope as the budget continues to go through the process, this language will be removed.'"

31 of 290 comments (clear)

  1. this language will be removed by sofar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm sure Microsoft can pay to have that done.

    1. Re:this language will be removed by Tibor+the+Hun · · Score: 5, Funny

      Texas follows different set of laws. I'm sure Microsoft can just pray to have that done.

      --
      If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
    2. Re:this language will be removed by Martin+Blank · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not a matter of whether Microsoft can pay to have it done. It shouldn't be in there because it sets a bad precedent. If they can forbid Windows Vista, why not forbid any other piece of software that has, whether or not for valid reasons, gotten bad press? These decisions are much better left to those deploying the technologies.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    3. Re:this language will be removed by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's the legislature's job to control the budget. They have every right, and even an obligation to stop it from being wasted. Yes, this can including dictating technology. Hopefully they'll discuss this with experts before voting, but its a perfectly legit rider to put on a budget bill. In this economy I'd probably go with no upgrades period unless there's a health or safety reason for doing so.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    4. Re:this language will be removed by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As AuMatar states, the legislators are doing their jobs. They can forbid the state doing business with Microsoft at all, if they decide that to be in the State's interest. In this case, they have refused to foot the bill for upgrading to a shaky operating system. Besides which, it is highly doubtful that very many government owned machines will run Vista's aero "features" anyway. Waiting for Win 7, IF they decide to upgrade at all, makes sense. Of course, it makes even more sense to me that Texas upgrade to open source, require that their employees get the proper training to provide their own support, and simply stop paying for proprietary software. WinXP is, and will remain, a good business operating system for quite some time, after all.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    5. Re:this language will be removed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Although it would be best if a strong IT department could make that determination on their own, maybe they need some help to make it stick. There is nothing unusual about avoiding Vista. My company is very Micrsoft-centric and even THEY won't touch it. The situation to avoid is where agency X decides on their own to upgrade (especially if they get subsidized freebies), and then agency Y is pressured into upgrading to be compatible with agency X. Sooner or later, some critical piece of software refuses to run on Vista and the brown stuff hits the fan.

      There are probably a few state agencies that are either exempt (or pretend to be exempt) from the state IT dept. And they probably need more guidance than they are willing to admit. For all we know, it may have been the IT department that asked the legislature for help.

      My guess is that MS can get this language removed, but they will have to provide all kinds of freebies. The best outcome would be to leave the language intact and bag Vista. Second best would be getting all the upgrades for free. From the legislative point of view, a win/win situation.

    6. Re:this language will be removed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I would wager that a significant portion of them are still running Windows XP (if not OS X) and have little or no experience with Vista aside from what their son's best friend's cousin's neighbor told them.

      Let me help. I work for a global IT firm with more than 30,000 employees. We sell a lot of Microsoft kit. And internally we have chosen to skip Vista because it's proven to be too bloody problematic in several rather extensive pilot studies.

      Apologies for posting AC here, this is one post I really would not be able to get away with.

    7. Re:this language will be removed by Martin+Blank · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I do work for a government, so I'm well acquainted with the purchasing and the oddball requirements that come with it. Generally speaking (though I've seen some significant exceptions that drew a great deal of controversy), the government bends over backwards to ensure that things are as fair as possible in the technology assessments. We listen politely to the senior leadership, including elected officials, and then go and do what the laws and policies tell us to do so that we're not held to the fire when some violation is brought up.

      I've no problem skipping Vista. I have it on on my work notebook and have since Beta 2, and while it's fine for me, my notebook is more powerful than most. We've identified software incompatibilities that will take most of a year to fix, by which time Windows 7 is due out, so the upgrade makes sense. My position is that it should be -- and usually is -- decided after proper evaluations, and not prior by uninformed elected officials.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    8. Re:this language will be removed by lgw · · Score: 4, Informative

      Of course, there's no fundamental differece between Vista and Windows 7 (which is Windows 6.0 R2). Microsoft is quietly laughing at all of this - everyone said "we're skipping Vista", so they just rebranded Vista and slapped on a different-looking GUI (which means in most people's eyes it's a totally different OS). If there are enough fixes in the Vista service pack called "Windows 7" to make it tolerable, then this isn't a total scam, but it is humorous.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  2. Good by AvitarX · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With Windows 7 just around the corner, it makes far more sense to wait for the first service pack of Windows 7, then to upgrade XP to a soon to be replaced OS.

    --
    Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    1. Re:Good by cheater512 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sssh! Your going to give Microsoft's business plan away!

  3. ROFL; but stupid by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As much as I'm unimpressed by Vista(and dread the eventual move of the PC side of the operation I work for) and amused by this bill, it is a stupid idea.

    It is perfectly acceptable, indeed kind of the whole point, for legislatures to make laws, and handle budget matters, and this would give them the legal authority to do something like this; but that doesn't make micromanagement a good practice. If Texas' state IT minions are so incompetent that they need politicians to tell them what software to use, based on anecdotal evidence, then they should be fired at once. If not, then they should be treated like reasonably responsible adults, and allowed to do their jobs to the best of their expertise.

    Broad requirements like "thou shalt use only open, interoperable systems" are perfectly appropriate; but "thou shalt not use item X" is just stupid, even if I happen to dislike item X.

    1. Re:ROFL; but stupid by belmolis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But are you sure that in Texas such decisions are made by competant IT professionals? I wouldn't be surprised if: (a) decisions about software purchases are made separately for different parts of the state government; (b) in at least some of them people who aren't all that savvy make the decisions. It is also possible that even the IT pros are heavily invested in Microsoft and do pretty much what Microsoft says to do. So this may not be an instance of ridiculous micromanagement.

    2. Re:ROFL; but stupid by Clandestine_Blaze · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If Texas' state IT minions are so incompetent that they need politicians to tell them what software to use, based on anecdotal evidence, then they should be fired at once. If not, then they should be treated like reasonably responsible adults, and allowed to do their jobs to the best of their expertise.

      Why would they want Vista anyway when they could just go with Microsoft Mojave, which is a clear upgrade!

      Jokes aside, I agree that this bill is stupid. Why have an I.T. department if they need the state politicians to tell them what software to use? Rather than legislate a "no-vista-upgrade" rider, they should instead devote a portion of the budget to setting up a development lab so that they can test their applications against whatever operating system they want to go with.

      I had a brief three-year stint with a county government here in Northern VA and they had done just that -- they had a core group of testers test the shit out of every piece of legacy software the county used against Vista. When Vista came out, the county said "no-way" to upgrading until almost a year went by. The upgrade to Vista was definitely on their schedule, but they wanted to be sure that everything played nice together. Once their testing was done, they slowly rolled out in a beta fashion where select employees would use Vista (usually the I.T. guys within individual agencies) and then eventually upgrade everyone else.

      Anyway, that was the vision of the I.T. director and NOT the county superintendent, board of directors, Virginia General Assembly, county executive or any other politician.

    3. Re:ROFL; but stupid by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And it prevents "upgrade by fiat", when new hardware is ordered and automatically comes with Vista and some poor local admin has to explain to his manager that no, they should _not_ accept that unwanted upgrade and stick with a consistent, existing hardware and software version. It also prevents departments from releasing Vista-only technologies: this is important for Internet Explorer and other applications.

      It also keeps the Texas paperwork pushers from playing Halo 2 or Halo 3.

  4. Sigh by halcyon1234 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...but the problems with this particular [operating] system are known nationwide,' Hinojosa said...

    Looks good so far, reasonable, tech savvy-- he just wants to ensure everyone uses stable, functioning software, and---

    (starting at 4:42 of this RealMedia video stream).

    *facepalm*

    1. Re:Sigh by PhxBlue · · Score: 5, Funny

      *facep -- Buffering -- alm*

      There, fixed that for ya.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
  5. Why Bother by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why bother upgrading to Vista at all. Just wait another two years or so until Windows 7 comes out and either upgrade machines at that time or purchase new machines which will come with Windows 7 installed.

    If it would cost a lot to upgrade from XP to 7, then it's time to either switch to Linux or at least start talking about it so that Microsoft will help make the transition available for a more reasonable cost.

    Considering that we're at a point where computational power is considered to be sufficient or in excess for normal, non-power users, in two years this should allow the government to purchase some low-end machines that have more than enough power to take care of the work that will probably be done on most of them.

  6. Oy by Tridus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, does this person actually know anything about operating systems? Or is this "my friend heard from a friend heard from that friendly Mac guy" type of silliness?

    I mean, where I work we're not upgrading to Vista either. But that was a decision made by IT, after actually looking into it. I highly doubt the politicians have any idea of what they're talking about.

    Remember, next month they could just as easily say "no upgrading to Linux, everyone knows that's socialism!" It'd have just as much research behind it as this legislation does.

    --
    -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    1. Re:Oy by benjamindees · · Score: 5, Informative

      There is no IT dept for the entire State of Texas. So, first of all, your analogy is flawed.

      Secondly, the legislature writes the budget for the state's OS upgrades. It is certainly within their purview to forbid an especially worthless OS on a cost/benefit basis, regardless of technical considerations.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    2. Re:Oy by gadlaw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah well, legislatures don't know anything about highway construction or job creation or stem cell research but they still seem to be able to 'represent' the people that elected them and vote for things by and large that numbers of people support and would like to see addressed by the legislature. They don't have to be 'IT' people to pass a law. Hasn't stopped them before, that argument won't stop them anytime in the future.

      --
      Enjoy your Karma, after all you earned it. Feel your Karma Joe, feel it burn.
  7. that will save lots of money by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 4, Informative

    The problem is that there's really no reason to "upgrade" to Vista, and at twice the price for slower speeds and performance, not to mention the mandatory RAM and video card costs, this is a wise budgetary precaution.

    Just don't mandate netbooks - they have a tendancy to walk away.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:that will save lots of money by Toonol · · Score: 5, Informative

      Plus, there's a potentially harmful network effect. A particular department might need new pcs, and upgrade to Vista with no particular cost or problem... but then, they're on a network with, swapping documents with, and have different support and training requirements than other XP users. All of a sudden, other XP users might feel a need to upgrade, generating unnecessary expense.

      Even more importantly, do not EVER let anybody in your company or government upgrade to a newer version of Office, because the moment that lid is opened, there's no going back.

  8. budget stuffs by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's not a micromanagement choice when he's responsible for a government that has perhaps 50,000 workstations, each needing a $200-300 license. Conservatively. I have no idea how many workstations the entire state educational system has, but I'd bet 50,000 is a lowball estimate. But still, that's $10 million, minimum, for an upgrade. For an educational agency's budget, that's not small potatoes. That could pay for the salaries of 57 primary school teachers for the next 5 years. The fact that the upgrade has questionable value for the educational agencies in the state is a supporting point! Why spend that much money for something with no real return on investment? Or, we could just ignore the huge economic question here and cry "evil microsoft!" or "how dare they single out a single company!" Yes... Those arguments make so much more sense than it's uneconomical.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
  9. Re:Gotta admit, it is strange. by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Funny

    But I guess it's harder to disallow a specific product via the same method.

    No texas government agency shall install an operating system that has a name starting with a "V" and ends in "ista," from a company that rhymes with "schmicrosoft."

  10. Not at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What they tell their constituents is different from real life. Neo-cons, like Tom Delay was, LOVE to be paid to change their opinion. In fact, I would not be surprised if large amounts of funds show up in Texan pols re-elect funds, with the disappearance of that language.

    1. Re:Not at all by JackieBrown · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, because only Republicans can be bribed.

      Just turn a blind eye to the neo-libs that defened Fannie Mae and AIG until the companies were sufficently drained not to pay them anymore.

  11. Re:Texas BOR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    till Steve Breathing Apparatus Ballmer strides in black cape, and booming voice:

    "I am altering the deal...pray I do not alter it further..."

  12. Re:Politicians interfere with our abuse methods??? by billcopc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well no, in reality they should take out the Vista-specific wording and leave it as a generic, all-purpose "No buying thousands of licenses of anything without approval" rule.

    In this specific case, the gist of the message is "If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it". He has identified XP as a working product that suits the needs of the government, and does not want to see asshats blowing a fortune on Vista and associated support costs, when the benefit is nil. He's basically saying the same thing millions of I.T. people have said since Vista's release.

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    -Billco, Fnarg.com
  13. Re:Politicians interfere with our abuse methods??? by Miseph · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So XP is about to blow up? Really? And Vista is the solution to that? What if the transmission's just fine, but the dealership is sending you postcards saying "hey, your transmission is 10 years old now, and even though we know it's been maintained, and we don't really suspect that it's about to break, we think you should buy this expensive new one we came up with that does more stuff and we think is super cool"... should you replace it? There isn't a single right answer to that question, and it's going to depend a lot on how you use the car and what kind financial situation you are in. Since the Texas State Government probably doesn't need the spiffy new features of Vista, and it most likely doesn't really provide any mission critical upgrades (maybe once it too has had years of security updates to lock it down it will, but for now the security advantages are speculative at best), spending a ton of money to upgrade from what they already have working amounts to little more than spending a bunch of money to start over from scratch.

    --
    Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
  14. Re:Politicians interfere with our abuse methods??? by remmelt · · Score: 4, Funny

    Also, this transmission will not fit in the car you currently own. You might need to upgrade parts of the car. In fact, it's probably best if you buy an entirely new one. The transmission comes free with the new one! Free I tell you!