Trick Used To Pass French "Three Strikes"

Glyn Moody writes "France's 'Loi Hadopi' — better known as 'three strikes and you're out' — was passed by the National Assembly late last night when only 16 deputies were present (the vote was 12 in favor, 4 against). Most politicians had left because it was expected that the vote would take place next week. In this way, President Sarkozy has sneaked his controversial legislation through the French parliament — and shown his contempt for the democratic process. So now what?"

Comments

Shame

[FredFredrickson]

While my initial thought is "Shame on those people who subverted the democratic process" I can't help but think.. "Shame on the faulty system with such a stupid loophole." Did they subvert the democratic process? Kinda. But did they do things within the boundries of their law? Apparently so.

So shame on those living in France expecting anything different from their dumb system.

It's like having an insurance policy, and when the insurance company decides to be assholes and use their technicalities to avoid paying you, well, shame on you for signing on to such an obviously flawed contract.

(Please note, I'm not claiming my country is any better.)

Re:Shame

[AvitarX]

And shame on those whom left early to have off, whatever the custom may be.

I mean, if I am involved in a meeting at work, and it is my job to attend the meeting, and even vote about the discussed subject, even if it's next week, I stay and do my job. Of course lawmakers have a special kind of work ethic.

Re:Shame

[sjames]

The problem in France is similar to some of the shenanigans we see in the U.S. The rules were put in place with the idea that the participants in the debate and vote were dedicated to democracy and the best interests of their respective nations. In the end, they're honor systems.

These days, that assumption just doesn't hold true often enough for the rules to work like they're supposed to. Too many in the legislatures have no honor.

We have much the same problem in contract law. Much of the law includes various 'reasonable person' tests. Unfortunately, corporations aren't real people (even if the law grants them a fictional personhood) and they are not reasonable (literally, ever tried to call up a corporation and reason with it?)

Re:Shame

[notarockstar1979]

Yes, shame on the faulty system. However, just because something is done to the letter of the law doesn't mean it's done with the spirit of the law in mind. Of course this may be EXACTLY the kind of thing this loophole was designed for.

Is there any way they can retract it during a vote next week when they thought they were going to vote for it? I don't know how French law works.

While I agree with most of what you're saying (even if I don't agree with where most of the blame goes), I don't know that I agree with the following:

So shame on those living in France expecting anything different from their dumb system.

If you are born somewhere, sometimes it is difficult to leave. Some people just don't have the resources or skills to leave a country and start a new life somewhere else (I know I'm finding it pretty difficult right now). What other choices do they have if the politicians don't listen to the people?

The EU will probably shut this down anyway. We'll just have to see.

Re:Shame

[JCSoRocks]

Of course lawmakers have a special kind of work ethic.

Yeah... the kind where you only work for a few months every couple years when you're up for election. :-/

Re:Shame

[ShieldW0lf]

Yes, shame on the faulty system. However, just because something is done to the letter of the law doesn't mean it's done with the spirit of the law in mind. Of course this may be EXACTLY the kind of thing this loophole was designed for.

Perhaps it's time to recognize that contracts and the laws that support them are contrary to a free and democratic society. If we dominate each other through trickery and exploitative contracts, how is that better than dominating each other through violence and force of arms?

Power in the modern world comes from directing the efforts of the society of which we are a part. If that power that comes from leverage rather than the abiding support of the people that make up the society, it is tyranny. Contracts are the mechanism by which that tyranny is enforced. They are the mechanism that has been used to turn us against ourselves and cause us to labor relentlessly for arbitrary and wasteful things while the important things are being neglected and allowed to fall apart.

We will not see things improve until we rectify this situation. Though, realistically, chances are good we will die before our time in this bed we have made without ever having even tried, and protest how unfair life is.

Re:Shame

[FredFredrickson]

Actually, the take-it-or-leave-it problem is very similar with countries.

I'd be hard pressed to change the country, in the same way I'm hard pressed to make an insurance company give me good benefits. But it seems all insurance companies are equally as scammy, and I'm having a hard time finding a country I want to live in that isn't just as much suck as this one.

So, yes, the government is like insurance. It never pays out, and no matter where you go, you'll get screwed.

Re:Shame

[commodore64_love]

Proposed amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of a corporation, nor granting rights to same. All rights shall be reserved to the People as individuals. Congress shall accept no donations but from the People." (Or some variant thereof.)

That would put an end to the nonsense that corporations are people. The individuals within the corporation such as Gates, Ballmer, and the sundry employees will have rights to free speech, free press, et cetera, but not Microsoft the corporation. Hopefully this law would also block the buying-out of Congressmen by corporations.

Re:Shame

[Tuoqui]

It's time to shoot the French Secretary of State. Someone man up and take the bastard out. It is your patriotic duty otherwise you're just living under another monarchy that changes every what is is 4 years.

Re:Shame

[CodeBuster]

Clothesline are very ecologically friendly.

What a wonderful excuse for any wrong doing. Can I have your car towed away and crushed because driving is ecologically un-friendly?

Re:Shame

[Fulcrum of Evil]

The founding fathers did, on occasion, state that having a proper level of fear for the electorate was a healthy thing.

Re:Shame

[sjames]

Of course, that's also been a long time excuse for racism. I don't have nothin' personal against them but when they move in, property values go down. Replace them and they with just about any minority.

I realize that not liking clotheslines is not racism, but it can be argued that it is a sort of classism. To some, clotheslines represent the lower class, so they don't want them in their neighborhood.

Quorum?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever heard of Quorum? The French should add that to their rules/constitution to prevent that crap Sheesh

"contempt for democratic process"

[Gothmolly]

Sounds like sour grapes to me. News Flash: Politicians use these procedural tricks all the time, why do you think that said tricks exist? At someone point, some other guys slid laws through on the same deal. Look at the absurd things the US does - the Patriot Act, Obama's "bailout" plans, that nobody ever reads, but people vote on.

Re:Don't leave early.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Don't forget: Shame on the worthless motherfuckers who stayed and voted aye. Sarkozy is a prick; but 12 people in that room last night were the ones who actually made a mockery of the process of representative democracy.

In a juster world, they would be hanging from the lampposts this morning.

Quorum

[PMuse]

A country with a 577-member body that allows 16 people to constitute quorum? If that's actually the case, that country deserves what it gets.

Say it ain't so.

Re:Quorum

[mzs]

They did call a quorum, at the beginning of bringing it to the floor, with 500+ members present, almost 41 hours before the vote, then they were told the vote would be first thing next week, so almost everyone went home. Sadly in France there is no easy way for a member to force a quorum call at a later point. This was an abuse of the rules.

More information

[krappie]

What this slashdot post needs is:
1. A description of the law that was passed. 'three strikes and you're out' isn't very descriptive. I'm assuming it has to do with file sharing and cutting off people's internet connections?

2. How many deputies were supposed to be there? 18? 100? 300?

Re:Contempt?

[mortonda]

I have seen Brits and Swiss jerks leave their office at 5:00pm while I stayed at my desk until 10:00pm past.

Hmm, and who exactly is the winner here?

Sarkozy

[the eric conspiracy]

Does anyone find it amusing that after all the ridicule the French heaped on Americans for electing Bush that they went and elected somebody even worse?