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No More OpenMoko Phone
TuxMobil writes "Bad news for FreeRunner fans: development of the first Open Source smartphone will be discontinued. (English translation via Google)
OpenMoko executive director Sean Moss-Pulz said at OpenExpo in Bern (Switzerland)
that the number of staffers will be reduced to be able to stay in business. OpenMoko
had high intentions: the offspring from Taiwanese electronic manufacturer First International Computer (FIC)
wanted to produce an Open Source smartphone. Not only with Open Source software pre-installed, but with
free drivers and open specifications of the hardware components. This would give programmers as well
as users complete freedom. Up to now the manufacturer has produced two models, the first has sold 3,000 units and
the second one 10,000. Both models were targeted primarily to developers. From the beginning,
OpenMoko had to fight with different problems. The smartphones came onto the market after a huge delay. Some phones
came with construction defects. Also, changes in the team slowed down the development. Software development
for the current smartphone will be continued but with fewer resources, Moss-Pultz said. He still hopes the
community will support the FreeRunner."
That's the point of buying an opensource phone. To use it as our sandbox.
Didn't see that coming.....
Do you have something productive to contribute?
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Having open source does not alone make a product awesome. However, one thing having open source does is make it so, even if the product fails, the knowledge put into making that product is not lost. And that's pretty awesome.
Only has the older, slower 2G technology, doesn't have 3G.
No wonder it doesn't sell very many.
They're targetting developers, and developers are the audience most likely to be concerned about the speed.
Sure, being open source is very very cool, but it's not everything.
It helps if the open source product actually is a little less-expensive than the closed source one.
It helps even more if it has the same essential features like performance.
How many people would be using Linux on their desktop if it only suppord 10megabit network cards, and no FastEthernet and GigabitEthernet NICs?
As a pissed off Freerunner owner I have this to say -
OM has been badly managed for some time now. Rather than concentrate on getting basic functionality going they wasted time and money doing things over and over and over again. They must have reinvented the wheel at least three times by now.
No disrespect to the developers, but OM the company was a failure. In what they did and in how they failed to communicate properly with their community, ultimately ensuring there wasn't much of one.
The only hope I have for getting a useful device out of the freerunner now is the (independant of OM) Android port.
The GP has a valid point. Sure, OpenMoko dying is sad. But to people writing open source software who *also want their software to be used by people*, there are important lessons here. Listen to users. Prioritize so that basic functionality (oh, I dunno, battery life) is working before getting carried away with GUIs, etc. Aim at a user community which is not just developers from day one if you want a product that non-developers can later use. Too many projects act as if being open-source is the most important thing that matters for success, and this just leads to wasted effort within the community.
If you RTPT (read the poor translation) they are laying off some employees and putting the ones that are left to work on a different electronic device (it didn't say what) that has been under development. They will continue to sell the freerunner and that they eventually want to return to mobile phone development. They hope that independent developers will continue to work on the phone in the meantime.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
"Ideas" are worthless. Everybody has good ideas. It is actually implementing the idea that is the hard part.
In other words, the money (and the devil) is in the details.
I've not really followed this project, but aren't the design documents public? If so, some other company could pick this up and run with it, no?
How is "downsizing" the equivallent of "no more"?
Een-gleesh?
Not even 101. Maybe 50.5. Maybe even 25.25. If worse comes to worst 12.625 (See Dick run. Run Dick run!)
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
With the advent of Android on Linux, OpenMoko can safely retire. There will be a flood of Android hardware out soon in addition to the G1 and at least some of it will be hackable or open enough for developers to delve into the stack if they want. For example, you'll be able to improve the hardware drivers, add functionality left out by the original makers because they feared patent infringement, and take advantage of hardware acceleration that didn't make it into the shipping product. Perhaps the only sacrosanct portion kept off limits will be the radio stack itself, which if hacked could invalidate the CE mark, FCC, GCF, PTCRB, etc.
I bought a Qtek 9100 (aka HTC wizard) some years ago (~4~5). It came flashed with wm5.
Guess what? Qtek is killed, the official firmware updates went from a very reduced quantity to null.
So, right now - Zero support.
Fortunately there are groups of people constantly cooking their own ROMs with updated stuff.
www.xda-developers.com
Although, rom cookers have a hard time looking for a way to flash these phones that are usually locked down.
For those looking to have Linux on their phone, (I found http://linwizard.sourceforge.net/ for the HTC wizard and I'm part of the development team for a long time now) the task is even worse, there is absolutely no documentation about the hardware.
My point is that with opensource hardware, if the vendor dies, "supporting" the device by the community is much easier.
I thought the handset was pretty rough around the edges - too much wasted front-side real estate (what's with the weird rounded shape?), pretty shabby performance (and 0 reliability) with the stock OS (wait a sec - that describes my WM6.1 phone pretty well too :D) and even worse stability with other OS's...
Who cares that it'll run a full-blown Linux desktop if I can't use it to make phone calls and write SMS properly...?
There's a huge difference here - while Open source software can be produced by one or two guys in a basement, and be surrounded with joyful celebration of Free ideologies, hardware is material. Blueprints are data but nobody guarantees they will work until they're materialized. And this requires: factories, materials, go-betweens between all of them, legislature to comply to (FCC interference and wattage rules). In short, a whole bunch of people and organizations.
In a philosophical mood, this could be tied to the debate between service economy and industrial economy - one deals with "soft" products, mostly information shifting all around, the other with "hard" real material products. The debate is still not over. The current crisis could result in some good insights on how to balance the two principles (you can't eat information and services, you can't get a sophisticated civilization with everyone working in sweatshops or being occupied with subsistence farming).
-- Sig down
You realise of course that this was the real-life GNUphone.
...
The Free Software Foundation (NASDAQ: RMS) has announced the Free Software alternative to the evil, DRM-infested, locked-down, defective-by-design iPhone: the GNUPhone.
The key technical innovation of the GNUPhone is that it is completely operated from the command line. "What could be more intuitive than a bash prompt?" said seventeen-year-old Debian developer Hiram Nerdboy. "The ultimate one-dimensional desktop! Just type dial voice +1-555-1212 -ntwk verizon -prot cdma2000 -ssh-version 2 -a -l -q -9 -b -k -K 14 -x and away you go! Simple and obvious!"
The phone will also serve as a versatile personal media player. "I can play any .au file or H.120 video with a single shell command! The iPod could never measure up to this powerful ease of use." Video is rendered into ASCII art with aalib. "If blocky ASCII teletype softcore pinups were good enough for 1970s minicomputer operators, they're good enough for you. Respect your elders."
The KDE project will be bringing its next-generation KDE 4 desktop to the GNUPhone. "you can flip, twirl, dice, blend, fold, spindle and mutilate your terminal windows to your heart's content," said developer Aaron Seigo. "look at that cool effect! any complaint that basic functions don't actually work is ignorant of the intrinsic beauty of the plasma api and is just more fun spread by haters like stevie ray vaughan-nichols and novell corporation."
Actual successful voice calls are expected by 2011 to 2012. Regulatory approval is proving problematic in the corrupt, corporate-captured US environment. "The FCC said that if we dared switch on this, uh, 'piece of shit' in a built-up area in its present form, they'd break all our fingers with a fourteen-pound cluebat," said Nerdboy. "They're obviously shilling for Apple, Nokia and Microsoft."
The second version of the GNUPhone will run EMACS on the HURD kernel and be operated by writing eLisp macros on the fly. "It's the clearest, most elegant and natural operating environment anyone could conceive of," said Nerdboy. "Really, we're not out to destroy Apple; that will just be a completely unintentional side effect."
http://rocknerd.co.uk
How free is Android? I somehow was under the impression that it has closed parts. But perhaps I'm just confusing this issue with the locked-down phone issue (which, while arguably obnoxious, can be circumvented by making your own phone).
But yes, I must say that to me too Android seems much more promising merely because it has a stable company like Google behind it and other commercial adopters. Hope there will be an effort to develop a truly free and open hardware for it (although personally I would be quite happy with (and pay a premium for) proprietary hardware with open specs so that a totally unlocked and free installation of Android is possible).
but wait - i thought open source was awesome and couldn't fail?!
It's too big to fail.
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
Android
- no tethering -- tethering apps removed from the app store.
- developer phones can't install apps from the app store (have they changed this policy yet?)
OM
- tethering works fine (albeit with slow GPRS)
- write and install any app
Sorry, Android isn't open.
People have grabbed the Android source from Google and had Android running on pretty much every device that is physically possible for it to run on.
And OEMs like HP are apparently just grabbing the source themselves and trying it out on their upcoming netbooks.
Can't really be any more free than that.
The Buzz generated by OpenMoko was huge; several people at my work were just waiting for something that could be used as a phone before they purchased one. We waited three months, then six months, and then finally gave up expecting anything. That was a year and a half ago.
I got the Neo 1973 and used it in my autonomous boat project, as it had GPS, GPRS, could run Python and connect via USB to many types of devices. At this point while late there was still some promise.
One issue was the desire to please the techies. In order to be a real success it would always have needed to operate well as a phone. It never really achieved that. I would have preferred to see development limited to providing basic phone functionality first, then once that was stable extending it.
Instead it seemed that the Neo became a techie plaything, which was cool for me wanting a small device for my robotics, but not so good for a company trying to compete in the phone market where millions of units are sold. OpenMoko didn't deliver working software. The first rule of Open Source is to deliver something that works early.
Although there is a community around OpenMoko I suspect it will move to platforms that have a real future on mobile devices now. The Android platform may not be perfect yet, but it holds far more promise as a polished product that techies can extend, yet is still a viable mass market phone.
Personally I feel that Sean was too idealistic, and that OpenMoko needed someone stronger that could make some hard headed business decisions rather than making decisions that would see the total reworking of the platform when the first one wasn't even working.
I am very disappointed that such a great opportunity has failed because those in charge misunderstood that the tech people were his market. Certainly a healthy community is a good thing, but you can't create a polished product by trying to please every man and his dog.
Freedom for development and Open Source Smartphone software die. Closed platform phone followed by a sect of fanboys is a HUGE success and makes SJ richer.
News at 11.
Android on the Freerunner can be as open as the people writing the port want to make it.
Reposting from http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-April/044915.html
Sean's speech at ESC about making a 3G device:
Since I worked on the presentation with Sean for the days he was here in
SF, let me give you my view and sean's view. That way we won't get into
some version of the telephone game.
Sean discussed three things at OpenExpo.
1. Our successes.
2. Our mistakes.
3. Our challenges
I won't go over 1& 2 but I'll cover #3 since rasters perception has
a bit of color added to it. Only a tiny bit and he's entitled
to that color commentary, I'll just add what Sean and I, as authors
of the presentation, had as our message.
Our biggest challenge was to make a choice about how to spend the
balance of 2009.
There were two paths:
A: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch GTA03
B: Fulfill our promises on FreeRunner and launch project B.
We will talk more about project B in the coming months, but these
salient facts should be able to guide any budding executives out there.
1. GTA03 was in constant flux as a design.
2. GTA03 schedule was consequently always slipping.
3. The resources required for GTA03 are 3X those required for Project B.
4. We don't have 3X.
So, we picked plan B.
Now comes the question, what about GTA03? how do we get there? And when?
and what is it?
Well my basic argument was and is this:
First we attend to the issues that still remain with the GTA02. That's
why the VP of marketing ( of all people) is working on the buzz fix
problem. Second we complete project B. When we've done that, then we
get to eat dessert. Essentially, I made the same argument I heard so
many times on this list: "How do expect us to buy a GTA03 when you've
yet to deliver on all the promise of FreeRunner?" And I took the
arguments I heard from disty seriously, "how do you expect us to buy FR,
when GTA03 is right around the corner?" And I accepted the arguments I
heard from Engineers I respect who questioned the viability of the GTA03
in the market place. All of those arguments said "put a bullet in its
brain pan!"
So, what about GTA03? As it was defined, it is dead. So how do we
get to a new GTA03? Two requirements: continue to improve GTA02; deliver
on project B. What is GTA03 and when do we get there? There are a number
of independent efforts out there that are pitching me ideas for GTA03.
I talked to sean a bit about this and I'd like to try to open up more
of the design process and the marketing process to the community.
Perhaps on a separate list. Some of these discussions have already started.
What can you do to help?
1. Move GTA02 code upstream.
2. Stay Involved.
3. Continue work on applications
4. Buy a FreeRunner.
5. Get involved in GTA03 discussions
There was a window of opportunity for the OpenMoko but this window is long gone. They failed to ship on time, and when they did it was a ultra-expensive **non-functional** toy.
I, for one, kept waiting to buy one. But the reports of non-working hardware, and the other news about 3 or 4 different frameworks being worked upon, each of which not working properly for SMS + Calls, completely put me off. Point is there are not that many enthusiasts willing/able to throw so much money in the risky bet that the Freerunner was. That thing was just too expensive, and did less (as far as phone is concerned) than a 40 euro Nokia.
Then Google releases Android: open enough and ***fully*** working. Is anybody surprised?
No, I'm sorry, but now you can just fuck off too.
The "GPL is viral" meme was lame ten years ago, the fact that you still spout it now is basically proof of mental deficiency.
OM was developed by a company full of people that also get up and go to work every day.
It was managed badly. That has nothing to do with the license. Grow up.
This has not been such a good year for open hardware projects. First OLPC, and now OpenMoko. I would say that both projects may have been overly ambitious, and were certainly poorly managed. I wonder, what will be next? OpenPandora? Can anyone list any successful open hardware projects?
Another FOSS project crashes and burns. Between this, Sun, and OLPC, it's been an awesome couple of months for showing the world that "Free" software is a legitimate choices for businesses and organizations.
"Free" software isn't free - it's worthless.
Wake up dude. It is easier to rewrite, than to read code.
I don't know much of OMoko. But from what I see from the mess they made, never actually getting the thing to work as a phone. I don't expect much of their code to be on a level of maturity that would grant the time investment to get acquainted to it.
My honest guess, as developer, is that the code produced by these guys that did not get merged into other active projects will just die.
Announced before the iPhone was released -and way before Android- this is just another great idea that had no traction because of poor management of the project. I'm glad I didn't buy one of these.
Sig this!
you know, that used to exist, with a twist. Back in the day (talking about me now, and a million other kids back then), local teenagers would scrape up the cash for a lawnmower, then mow several yards in the neighborhood as a way to make some cash (then rake leaves in the fall, shovel driveways in the winter, etc). The price was reasonable, the homeowners got time to themselves, and didn't need to own a mower.
Now, about the only people who do that are professional lawn care people, they charge a lot more to mow because as adults they need-to-make-a-real-living-rate, not just a few bucks a yard (I will date myself, two bucks to mow an average suburban yard back then, now it is probably 50 bucks or something like that***) so for a lot of people it is actually cheaper now to just mow their own lawns, especially as they can sit down while they do it. And those robot lawnmowers are hitting the turf now, soon to be as common as roombas.
*** Ha! A LONG time later, I am still mowing! HAHAHAH! Spring, summer,fall that is my primary job on this farm, doing all the extensive mowing, most of it anyway. I brush hog, boom mower mow, rotary mow for haying, and do finish mowing. A lot of all of the above. If you want an idea of what a good quality industrial finish mower costs, like you would use around your yard, the one I use the most lately was 15 grand....*used*. So ya, if a neighborhood would pop for something like that, a quality diesel powered mower that would last and knock the yards out, it would be doable and make sense to share, but for 200 bucks for a decent push mower for smaller yards or a grand or so for a regular gasser cheap riding mower, as opposed to popping 50 bucks or more for a lawn service..most folks just do it themselves. kids who mow yards for cheap are rare nowadays I think. Although, perhaps with the economy tanking, such regular necessary but drudge work might make a comeback at lower rates (like I think a whole lotta other jobs will make a comeback but at much lower rates-that is in the mysterious future though..).
Anyway, openmoko is a great idea...for netbooks now. Easier/cheaper hardware selection and so on. IMO of course. An open netbook thing that could be upgraded easily every few years without dumping the whole thing, just a mobo swap and so on, would be spiffy. As would normal sized laptops, some open standard thing for those as well. Desktops and servers are covered, you can build your own cheap, but not netbooks or laptops or PDAs/Smartphones. I think it makes more sense now to concentrate on netbooks, they apparently fill a real decent niche for people and are popular. OLPC had a "great idea" and just ran it into the ground with exceptions and not selling the things outright and so on, all it took was someone else to actually sell the things and the "great idea" took off, it hit the price/features/coolness factor all at the same time. Plus professional marketing as opposed to Negropontes wanking it around and not "getting it" on the general public enthusiasm he ignored. "yes, you can buy one at double price or one million of them if you are a government".
epic dumbness there
There is nothing wrong with initially aiming for developers. In fact, I'd say if you are a startup company doing anything tech, targeting developers is a great way to get started. You want your product to generate buzz with blogging nerds like that Schobel guy (aka tech evangelists). It would be a huge mistake to try to cast your net to large and target "everybody". Gotta start somewhere, and nerds, even a specific type of nerd, is a safe bet.
Remember how many bloggers were hyping the Razr when it came out? Flickr targeted developers by offering an API. Google got its roots targeting nerds. Digg, same thing. Hell, Firefox was able to start by marketing to nerds like us and the buzz we generated pushed it into the mainstream. If you can't sell your warez to developers and nerds, you'll never sell it with the public at large.
The bit that kills you is if you don't realize that the developer crowd is a small part of market and you are only using them to gain enough street cred to expand into larger market segments. Sure, you can avoid "selling out", but if you want to be truly successful, you gotta cross that chasm and move into the meaty part of the bell curve.
That said, I don't know if OpenMoko failed because they didn't successfully cross the chasm, or because they weren't able to successfully sell to nerds at all. Or probably something completely different.
Does that mean when we bail them out, we ask RMS to step down as head of Open Source?
Any one that wants to be informed just has to visit mailing list, because this is a open project at all levels, search for this kind of openness any closed hardware arround there. No more to say.
OpenMoko failed because it was a phone that couldn't make or receive phone calls reliably, and when you did connect to someone they were often inaudible because of a hardware flaw that created a loud buzzing noise. Also, its core technologies were years behind the cutting edge (barely-functioning 2G in a world where 3.5G is giving way to 4G). No mystery here. It failed because it was a terrible, terrible phone.
Open Source's inability to deliver any sort of consumer-level device that isn't an expensive, misfunctioning joke should be a source of considerable concern to anybody who cares about the future of FOSS.
Do you have something productive to contribute?
As opposed to your insightful comment? Pull the stick out of your ass.
1) its my daily phone (im running shr-unstable distro)
2) i can make any mods i like (well, im not the only one)
3) its my primary gps (with multiple software)
4) its open. (read it again)
5) look at point #4
I know I'm replying to something completely off topic (and I have mod points!) but Portland, OR, US has been doing lawn mower sharing for awhile. http://www.northportlandtoollibrary.org/
When there's an interest in an area it's also not that difficult to put together a share group for more obscure tools like CNC machines and lasers. http://www.portlandtechshop.com/
What product?
Firefox. While not a physical device, is probably the most successful open source project out there. Why? Because of a few things:
Broadly put:
1) The only real browser on the market sucked. They realized this and created a product that removed the pain normal people had.
2) They shipped a high quality, good looking product that worked out of the box.
Specifically:
1) You could install their software with a real installer that installed *everything* required to run.
2) They did not focus on the fact it was open source. I would imagine only 5% of the people using Firefox even realize you can get the source. In fact, they hide it so well I don't even know where to go to browse the source code.
3) They had a professional looking logo and fairly professional appearance.
3) It runs on Windows as a native program.
I'd list more, but i have to make dressing...
facepalm.jpg
Odd, where are the mods on the retarded AC post above? Especially on Apple allowing "free" development for everybody on their iPhone. What a joke. Please bury the troll in case anybody is in danger of wasting their time.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
Openmoko is now earily similair to a zombie company - keeps blowing sunshine while its developers quits or gets fired in droves, they stop building products, the only ones left are in marketing, and they linger on without doing much. The facts are:
1) The 10,000 phones are mostly of the 900mhz variety, which has a "buzz" issue that makes the phone unusable. You need to go to a "buzz fix" party to do a non-trivial hardware mod. The "A7" version that fixes these issues is in perpetual delay, with no release date in site.
2) The only two paid kernel developers have left this last month or have announced they are leaving, some key hardware guys have left in the last two months. Some key UI people have left over the last 6-8 months.
3) They've abandoned the next model, the GT03, and they have publicly stated no 3G without a guaranteed sales of 50,000 units.
I like the idea of Free software on mostly open hardware - only they can't for whatever reason get the hardware part right. I think the software is not the problem, its the hardware. The Freerunner has been described as a Porsche body with a lawnmower engine, and looking at openPandora, I scratch my head and wonder why its like that.
IMHO its like any project that is going down the tubes - far too few developers on a project changing scope too often.
Hardware's not easy - I damn near went insane from the politics of embedded linux projects myself - but I can't imagine working with a constantly changing hardware scope while everyone is leaving. I'd be pleasantly surprised if openmoko makes a comeback at this point - the first problem is I wonder how they could attract talent in the future, even if they could afford it.
done
See,
If it was me running that company, I'd be pimping it to these guys. Give them a phone you can mod the shit out of, you'll get sales.
Now, in order to do so, you'd have to realize those guys aren't developers. They know just enough programming to get into trouble. Therefore, "open source" isn't what they want. They just want an easy way to bling their phone or run some program their cell phone company won't let them. That is their pain, and something like OpenMoko could have cured it.
Granted, if you ever wanted to expand outside that niche market, you'd have to cure pain felt by a lot of people. Most people don't mod their phone. However, I'd bet a lot of people are dissatisfied with how restricted their service seems. You'd have to do something to lessen that pain.
This is a means to an end. You don't sell people on the fact it is "open", you sell them on the fact you can use any wallpaper you want. You sell them on the fact they can install games the mobile provider doesn't want them to.
I had to chuckle every time I read a FOSS zealot's dismissal of the iPhone as "bling," defending OpenMoko as a superior alternative.
As an ideal, yes, an open phone OS is superior. But for actually using a phone, for actually running mobile applications, for actually keeping a calendar and a directory of contacts and syncing it and calling people when you need to and actually talking and getting things done, there is no comparison. OM isn't even in the same league as the iPhone OS.
What it comes down to, of course, is design. Even if OM had ever actually released a stable, consumer-ready package, the Apple product would, quite simply, still have had the vast advantage of a team of skilled HCI researchers and designers behind it. The iPhone is a pleasure to use because of the great amount of work that went into defining its interaction vocabulary and user experience as well as the solid software engineering and exhaustive testing.
This is something that will never be replaced by developers making icons in GIMP. Nor will it be replaced by artists making icons in Photoshop. It's design, not graphics, not animation, that sets great products apart from mediocre ones.
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
Sean did not say development is stopped. Development of the software stack is continuing. What has stopped (for now!) is the development of the next phone, codename GTA03.
I hope nobody who isn't trolling still spouts "GPL is viral".
"Watch out, there's a GPL epidemic going around. It's gonna getcha! Hide all your software and practice safe linking!"
Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
Silly vi user, "GNU freaks" don't use proprietary software, WOW is not FOSS. And yes, all hail teh power of GNU. But you're saying the prayer wrong, we chant, "There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels." Please correct this error in the future.
Regards,
Saint IGNUcius
I believe the FreeRunner has proved its point. It is totally unfair to compare it alongside other commercial phones. It is of no use to end users. It is of exceptional use to developers though.
I have a Freerunner and to me it's a generic 400MHz 128MB embedded device. I develop mobile software. I can install any distribution on this device so that I can get the set of libraries that are needed for my development - sometimes EFL (enlightenment), other times Qt, or pygame. I have also installed Android. So it's very versatile development platform.
Also it's two bootloaders make it almost impossible to brick. You can't break it as far as software goes. As a developer I don't care for support for software. What I like is, I can develop for 3-4 different smartphone platforms, with this single device.
Openmoko's goal was ambitious and also very experimental. It's hardly a surprise that they failed in one of the products (considering the big economy itself failing, it's no big deal). Openmoko was a good experiment in right direction and Freerunner will give a good data point in future business models based on open source.
Im not a heavy user, but openmoko is the only phone ive had that i want to carry around with me.
I dont care so much about the current software, as long as it can fix (by me if it annoys me that much) then thats the main thing.
I expect to use it as my one an only mobile phone for many years.
My phone may never get fixed soon, but I was reading the ARM system programming guide in the hope of doing something and I needed an ARM machine. Time to open this guy up.
My honest guess, as developer, is that the code produced by these guys that did not get merged into other active projects will just die.
Isn't this a tautology? You're basically just saying that any code that doesn't live will not live (die).
Who's the one sleeping here?
I think the title and description give a false, tabloid-like sensational impression. Neo FreeRunner will continue to sale, and a new revision of it (A7) will even hit the shelves soon.
What has been stalled is the development of the successor of FreeRunner, formerly known as GTA03. It will not ship in 2009.
Anyway, I hope they will stay in business as they are still the only one doing a phone that is really usable as a phone with eg. Debian or whatever. It would be perfectly fine if they now scrapped _all_ their non-hw & non-kernel efforts. They are lousy at handling a software community or coding UI anyway.
As can be guessed, I'm a happy user of FreeRunner as my only daily phone, and it would be sad if one day I would be forced to use a less free phone. And yes, Android dev phone is quite far from Openmoko in reality... it's not like buying a new computer and installing a distro of your choice on it like it is with Neo.
Sooner or later the Maemo people will make a phone. They have a better track record than openmoko. That will be the next phone I buy. Here is a Reuters article where the Nokia boss hints at such a project. 2 Dec 2009: http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSTRE4B16IO20081202/
You can tether fine on android. It's my understanding that, unlike the iphone, android allows you to install applications from anywhere (not just the iphone), so you can still install it here: http://code.google.com/p/android-wifi-tether/downloads/list
The GP has a valid point. Sure, OpenMoko dying is sad. But to people writing open source software who *also want their software to be used by people*, there are important lessons here. Listen to users. Prioritize so that basic functionality (oh, I dunno, battery life) is working before getting carried away with GUIs, etc. Aim at a user community which is not just developers from day one if you want a product that non-developers can later use. Too many projects act as if being open-source is the most important thing that matters for success, and this just leads to wasted effort within the community.
I only wish that the KDE devs would get this. I know that KDE 4.0 and 4.1 were not meant for end users, but KDE 4.2 is meant for end users and they are completely throwing usability out the window for a few prominent developers' pet projects. Of course, with no business model behind KDE this may be more acceptable than doing so with OpenMoko, however, I feel betrayed after 8 years of loyalty to KDE.
Lock the wife and the dog in the boot of the car.
Return one hour later.
Who's happy to see you?
Neither of those points is correct. Tethering apps are on the store outside of the US, and you can install apps from outside the store anyway just by downloading them with your web browser. The second point is also wrong. Developer phones can't install copy protected apps from the app store, but that's by no means the same as "can't install apps". I have tons of apps installed from the market on my dev phone.
Android is open, and it has the advantage of being built by people who know what they're doing and is thus a usable, competitive phone.
As an owner of one OpenMoko FreeRunner since July 2008, I do not want to let people think OM is not a working phone. (I am sorry for my english as I am french)
The FreeRunner has been my only phone for 10 months.
At the beginning there were lots of problems, with battery autonomy and lots of missing services (because software was bugged or simply inexistant). But lots of devs did lot of work...
Today it's not the big revolution, but still I enjoy my FR and find it usable :
I can phone, receive or send messages (SMS), use my gps (tangogps, or navit if I am in my car), connect to wifi spots (using wifimofi), surf on the web (ewww, midori, gnash or swfdec if you want flash), read ebooks, use bluetooth to make the FR be a universal remote control device (remoko project), play games (pinball, Doom on accelerometers, numptyphysic...)
The battery lives for ~8h without sleeping (screen on), ~3 days on normal usage (with screen off/sleep mode when not used directly, of course GSM still runs)... it's not tremendous, but acceptable if we compare with other smartphones.
On a more geek point of view, I can log myself through ssh -X (and run my GPS apps on my desktop computer), I can "share" my FR with my PC (using x2x, sshfs, ...), I can do cool things with accelerometers and xrandr, I can develop easily (same as on my desktop), I can even boot Debian from my 8go microSD card (giving access to the complete debian packages repository), I also have a mini USB port which could run in host mode, so I can plug usb flash drive, a printer, a keyboard/mouse... (even a 3G dongle, but I think battery will not support that during hours)
What are the problems :
- the buzzing noise : depending on GSM provider and current geo localization, you can suffer of lots of noise while phoning. I don't have any problem at work, but I have the noise in certain rooms of my house (25km from my work). This problem HAS BEEN HW-FIXED in revision GTA02v7. Therefore you can buy a FreeRunner now without this buzzing problem. Existing FR could be fixed too, community is organizing fixing parties (it requires good soldering skills indeed)
- slow graphics : HW chip was designed for QVGA but runs in VGA. It beautiful for browser, ebook readers or terminal, but not for video or animation (video should be downscaled to QVGA). Moreover data bus is shared with microSD, so IO access to sd card slows display.
- no 3G : 3G means +=200$ on price, but it would be great to have 3G, to have high-speed internet connection when there is no wifi spots.
FR is absolutely not ready for mass users (!developers), because you have to install and configure your distro (as for linux some years ago), then you must be aware that some updates could break things and you will have to downgrade sometimes to get back your FR to a functional state.
But release after release the FR becomes better.
"I won't be a rock'n'roll star. I will be a legend." Freddie Mercury
If you look at what these guys have pulled off with a relatively small company comparing FreeRunner with an iPhone or that GooglePhoneThingy, it is really amazing.
I have an OpenMoko phone and am very happy with it, all is open and directly available. Hope it will grow further to be an even greater success.
The reusable things here are not only the code, but the schematics for the phone itself and the lessons learned, i.e.
1. the gfx chip in the freerunner is worthless, it's not really open (NDA required) and the performance sucks => don't use it again,
2. Use two CPUs next time, one more powerful than the current slow one, and another tiny one to keep alive while suspended to come back quicker and be more responsive.
-- .
Damn I'm gutted about this, I was planning to buy one of these, the usb controler is the killer hardware bit was the best, not to mention the open source nature.
Windows suffers from this too - for example Firefox implements its own widgets, and so does Qt. The difference is that there's a clear baseline of 'the' standard widget set, a reasonably clear set of expectations for how all apps should behave, and so when people do decide to roll their own (for good reasons or bad) they take some care to keep the user interface consistent.
Of course, if you really try, you can still create peculiar nonstandard interfaces, Windows Media Player and Safari for Windows being obvious examples.
The good news is that the Linux desktop is converging on an agreed standard for how apps should look and feel: Firefox and OpenOffice, although they have their own widget implementations under the hood, don't look massively out of place on a normal GNOME desktop. Nor do KDE/Qt applications.
It's not so much a technical matter of having the _ability_ to make a bazillion widget sets, more a social understanding that consistency is important.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
Do you know other plateform that support OpenMoko OS , I know that XDA dev ported android on some devices but like freerunner, check that video proof :
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Video_demo_of_Freerunner_running_Android_Cupcake_Tutorial
-- http://rzr.online.fr/
Android is open, and it has the advantage of being built by people who know what they're doing and is thus a usable, competitive phone.
Android is being built by people who saw what openmoko was doing and said to themselves "lets take that idea and make it less free", reminds me of microsoft, buy em out boys...
I don't think that was a tautology.
The poster I was answering to was making a point that because OM was open source, the knowledge generated by the project would not die.
I made the point that most of the code will not be reused anywhere, and therefore should be considered dead. Perhaps I should have made that clearer.
In any case, there is code that although unmaintained, reaches a level of stability and usefulness that makes people continue using it. Synergy is an example of an unmaintained project that people keep using because there is no better alternative. I don't think that there is any code from OpenMoko that will be used like that outside of the Freerunner context.
Tough Economic Times'. Just like all other companies, they are feeling the economic crunch as well. The original article says that they had to lay-off a fraction of their staff already - something all-too familiar for most companies today.
At the end of the original article, SMP also states that they will, in the future produce another mobile phone. So the title of this article is clearly wrong.
Interesting post. The most informative post about the state of OM I read in this thread so far.
However from your own description, you confirm that moko's window of opportunity is long gone.
You mention that 10 months ago, the phone was riddled with problems. Potential buyers (like me) were hearing these reports, and simply decided to wait for the G1. The G1 comes out with much superior hardware running stable software. In the mean time the OM guys were still fixing basic issues with their handset.
Another note, perhaps adding 3G would have cost that much when hardware design was made several years ago. The difference in price of my contract with a "free G1" or SIM only was â220.
It's true - there needs to be a lot more community involvement with the FreeRunner in order for it to be successful. A good example, is the need for the SMedia software stack to start approaching completion, enabling OpenGL-ES-compatible hardware acceleration.
This device is honestly perfect for any undergraduate course in embedded systems, as the designer has full access to the hardware and it is 'unbrickable'. Today, I believe that computer engineers should really be taking a 2-semester course in low-level embedded systems programming. The course should encompass everything from JTAG debugging to writing a bootloader and launching Linux. IMHO, Google should be sponsoring university programs to provide students with this type of learning material, if they ever want Android to really take off.
Open Source doesn't deliver anything. It's a concept, like say, capitalism or democracy. People (or a company) are the ones that deliver in this case, and the ones who have failed.
In fact I see the relevance of open source at all in this case. Whether the code is open or not, it still doesn't change the fact that the hardware was old, and had huge stability problems. If it was simply the problem of that the available code wasn't good enough, the device could easily have been reflashed with something better. But that wouldn't have fixed some of the very important problems anyway.
There's no such thing as "head of open source". Open Source is a very loose thing. It's like talking of the "head of atheism", or "head of capitalism".
There are important people in those movements who have a status of leadership of sorts, but there's by no means an unanimous agreement on who those are. For each of those "leaders" there are many who think they they're right, and many who think they're full of it.
The phone specs were fucking retarded. Tri-Band and not even EDGE GPRS. There was no way I'd buy a phone like that.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Perhaps the only sacrosanct portion kept off limits will be the radio stack itself, which if hacked could invalidate the CE mark, FCC, GCF, PTCRB, etc.
I don't understand how Android can base its platform on the Linux kernel, which is GPL, and make everything else on top of it Apache or possibly even closed source. The whole point of the GPL is to prevent a situation like this. Everything they distribute with the kernel should be under GPL. Instead, they are treating the kernel as if it was licensed under the LGPL.
They really should have went with one of the BSDs, like Apple did, to avoid this blatant GPL violation.
I'm no at all a geek. I got mine in december, found it definitely usable... and in two weeks a little crease in the screen developed that half-killed the touch function (the display stayed perfectly OK).
I then considered using it as a miniature-large-display GPS (thanks to TangoGPS and Openstreetmap) but I never found the time to set things up correctly...
TangoGPS on it is definitely brilliant anyhow (really the niftiest of large, color-display, pocket GPS!).
If someone around here can tell me how to have it autoload at startup I'd be extremely happy...
Otherwise in case someone is interested by the complete set (with broken touch function) I'd say I sell it for E100, everything from practically new battery up to the laser-LED-torch-stylus pen to the nice green greeting card, in the original box...
I need this to buy the next one...
Herve S.
Not another Linux-Phone
by Mathias Born. Updated 02.04.2009
Bad news for libertarians: Openmoko suspended development of the GTA03 smartphone until further notice and laid off part of its staff. The managing director said that this would be the only way for the company to survive in the long-term.
For the time being Openmoko abandons development work on the next generation of the current Freerunner smartphone. Furthermore the Taiwanese company releases almost half of its staff. This is what Openmoko managing director Sean Moss-Pultz said today at the Opensource trade show "Openexpo" in Bern. Partially the staff had been given notice; partially the staff had resigned voluntarily. "We have arrived at a critical point", said Moss-Pultz. "This measures are absolutely necessary to even stay in business."
Openmoko's aim was ambitious: The subsidiary of the Taiwanese component manufacturer First International Computer (FIC) wanted to produce an Opensource-Smartphone. The source code was supposed to be freely available as well as the drivers and the specification of the components. Therefore software developers can reprogram the mobile phone at will. So far the company has produced two devices; the first one as a series of 3000 samples, the second one having been sold 10'000 times so far. Both are targeted at developers. The project was experiencing difficulties from the very beginning: The launch dates were postponed. Some batches had design faults. Furthermore there was a change in staff, which delayed development. At the middle of this year the software should have been stable enough for allowing the phone to be used in every day life.
Plan B
Openmoko now focusses on "Plan B" according to Sean Moss-Pultz. "For business reasons we have choosen the second device which we have in our pipeline." He would not be free to disclose any more details. However it would not be about a telecommunication device. In contrast to the smartphone the first version is going to already target the mass market. Also this product is going to be developed with Opensource software he assured.
The development of the software for the Openmoko-Smartphone would continue said Moss-Pultz, however with less resources. Therefore he places great hope on the community. "Buy a Freerunner, help to fix the bugs and write new programs" he appealed to his audience during his presentation at the Openexpo. He hopes to also use those latern on a new device. "Also in the future we want to produce mobile phones." (Berner Zeitung)
Sean Moss-Pulz is a total airhead. This is his attitude towards usability:
[openmoko-announce] Openmoko on Design
On 7/29/08 Jay Vaughan wrote:
> [snip]
>
> This does not work. That is all.
Sorry to hear it doesn't work for you. But like I said, we each have our
own ways of understanding and making meanings.
You are free to create your own meanings.
-Sean
I still hope that some day there will be an OS that allows me to use my FreeRunner as a phone... it'll probably be Android.
Some of the problems with OpenMoko is the way they failed to fulfilled the development orders. I ordered the development models (Neo 1973) twice and I never got my order processed. Later orders from other people were fulfilled. The end result is that developers didn't get a chance to solve the big problems with the phone, and that is reflected in the second version (FreeRunner), and the problems with it were glaring. Even doing something simple like installing a new kernel is a process filled with errors and problems. Trying to do development in those conditions is futile. WIth the arrival of Android, we have moved all development to that platform, that holds a lot of promise for what we want to do.
I have been wanting one of these phones for several years now. Just waiting for the product to mature appropriately. I liked the idea. I liked the phone (even though it was/is a little on the bulky side--not so much different from the one I have now). And, despite being buggy (again, not so much different from the one I have now--WM 6.1), I was just about ready to jump in. Hoping that within the next 18 months or so it would be at a level of usability that I could tolerate.
And Android? Interesting...but I really wanted the FreeRunner. Bummer. Heh.
Folks-
We at Georgia Tech have used the OpenMoko to do prototypes that are not possible on any other platform (Android included) because of the closed nature of mobile phones. Sometimes these projects are important.
For example, about 2 years ago a shooting victim died because a deaf man could not make a 911 call.
(How do you make a 911 call if you are deaf? You can't hear the operator's questions, and some deaf have speech that is not understandable unless you are expecting/used to it. Try SMS? Most 911 centers do not have SMS. Even if they did, SMS is not guaranteed to be delivered by a given time - or ever. Also, E911 can't be used to locate a SMS. In the case in Atlanta, the deaf man SMS'd a friend to call 911. By law, 911 sends the emergency vehicles to the location of the person who called them. By the time the ambulance was sent to the right place, the shooting victim died.)
Our TTYPhone system emulates a TTY (teletypewriter) on the OpenMoko, providing deaf users with direct and easy access to emergency services. Deaf users can dial 911 from the phone and communicate with the 911 operator through an Instant Messaging style interface - character by character. The software TTY encodes the text as TTY signals and sends it over the voice channel. Incoming TTY signals are decoded and displayed as text in real time. Since it is a voice call, it is localizable by E911. Since all 911 centers have TTY capability by law, it is compatible with current hardware.
Seems like an straightforward idea, right? Why hasn't anyone done it before? One reason is that no other phone allows access to the voice stream at a level where this prototype could be done. Other folks in the 911 community did not believe such TTY emulation on a mobile phone was possible (for various technical reasons).
However, we just showed the OpenMoko prototype at the National Emergency Number Association (NENA) yearly conference, dialing in live to Georgia Tech's 911 center. That got a lot of attention. Now the vendors/carriers/manufacturers are interested. This live, two-way real-time demonstration would not have been possible without the openness of the platform.
So, on behalf of developers (and, hopefully someday, the Deaf community) a big "thank you" to the OpenMoko team for putting something out there we could prototype with and prove new concepts.
Thad Starner
Associate Professor of Computing
Georgia Institute of Technology
Well thanks for taking the time to point that out.
P.S. Is Vadim a common name in Germany?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Hey, come on, that version of Grand Theft Auto is over 5 years late already! :)
Time to move on, I say go with project B (as long as it's renamed to "project X" or something)
FTFY.
Not after my patch.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I have no clue, I'm not german.
Open Source doesn't deliver anything. It's a concept, like say, capitalism or democracy. People (or a company) are the ones that deliver in this case, and the ones who have failed.
Uh huh, sure, just like every lost fight is blamed on battlefield conditions while a win magically legitimizes X, Y, or Z all by itself. Funny how that works. Be real here. Failed implementations are just as important as the successful ones, for different reasons.
In fact I see the relevance of open source at all in this case. Whether the code is open or not, it still doesn't change the fact that the hardware was old, and had huge stability problems.
NONE of these things came to fruition by accident buddy. The good, bad, and ugly details in how the came to be are very relevant. If you're all content with Open Source being nothing more than just an idea, go ahead, ignore the lessons learned here and go back to what you were doing. This is not an effective way to pursue openness in software or technology, and the sooner you all realize that, the better of you'll be.
BTW, to keep mods on their toes, the GPL IS VIRAL. That is the intent, to further spread the GPL (I mean OSS), you fuckwits. Does it jive with commercial software development? Not really. Is commercial development important to consumers? YES. If there are no consumers of OSS, is it relevant? NO. Put the GPL/Linux koolaid down please and think real hard what OSS/openness/freedom etc. in technology really means to you, how it actually (in the real world) benefits others, who it benefits, and focus on THEM, and THEIR needs.
Thank you.
Well tell me, in whatever language they speak where you are from, how would one translate "whooooosh!".
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Have you've ever seen somewhere the release of some game or other program to be trumpeted as a success of the closed source development model?
Of course not. The development methodology alone doesn't mean as much for the success of a project as the people behind it. The best idea means nothing if you don't have the resources or knowledge to execute it.
Well, if you know, please do tell.
I also expect an explanation of why Google's team didn't have those problems.
The explanation is really very simple. OpenMoko started what was a good idea, but implemented it badly, by concentrating on the wrong thing, changing the course of development several times, and using the wrong hardware. That doesn't go well regardless of development platform or philosophy.
Google on the other hand, had a good team, and plenty resources to back them up.
Yawn. There's plenty consumers of OSS. For instance, I worked on credit card payment gateways, and point of sale software. That stuff runs on Linux, talks to a Linux server in the shop, which then talks to yet more Linux servers in a datacenter.
It's mostly written in C and shell script, compiled with GNU make and gcc, with source kept in cvs and subversion, and for a large part typed in vim or emacs.
Funny thing that assertion of that the GPL is viral didn't worry any of those companies in the slightest. I'm talking about large chains of supermarkets here, for instance.
Every time you buy something at a supermarket, there are good chances that a Linux box is involved in processing your purchase, handling the payment for it, or both.
I don't know, I only learned that expression in English.
Not everything can be exactly translated to every language. For instance, English has no native word for the German "schadenfreude" and had to loan it.
I think "viral" is just as good a description as "free". Both are kind of true but sound like bigger issues than they really are.
Not to mention this "slavery" bullshit, that is just moronic.
You should wash out your mouth with soap for comparing Apple's crappy, bloated, proprietary and obsolete operating system to Android.
And, of course, neither OS X nor Android would exist without GPL software.
Like for like it was a terrible phone, but no other phone gave users what om gave: openness, from what I hear no need to jailbreak and no getting unwanted updates, etc. In other words freedom. So what price freedom? Yes it wasn't perfect by a country mile, but it was improving by the day. BTW I use the freerunner as my only phone, gps, notepad (albeit with big problems, but like I say they are improving).
Does it jive with commercial software development? Not really.
Yes, because we all saw what a failure basing the Commercial Mac OS X on the open-source BSD was.
Is commercial development important to consumers? YES. If there are no consumers of OSS, is it relevant? NO. Put the GPL/Linux koolaid down please and think real hard what OSS/openness/freedom etc. in technology really means to you, how it actually (in the real world) benefits others, who it benefits
Everyone.
So, you don't use firefox? Well, do you know why IE7 has tabbed browsing? png support? Firefox.
So, you don't use linux? Well, do you know why vista has all those funky gadgets on the desktop? Mac OS X. Also there are many projects out there for linux (like beryl) which vista has "borrowed" from.
And then there's apache. Nuff said.
As per the discussion above about derivation vs innovation, good ideas get copied. And so Open Source, where good ideas can thrive with community support and without commercial concerns, benefits everyone - even those who don't use it directly, or care either way.
A quick google reveals that this guy's research is at least very close to this, if not published on his site yet:
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~thad/
Some really useful and interesting stuff.
Don't use a comma splice to join two independent statements.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
when and even whether an openmoko phone would emerge that's suitable for use by a normal end-user
This is the bit I've been waiting for, and still am.
I signed up on their interest list, but with a note that I would need it to be stable enough for use as my primary phone -- and when I respond with this question to their recurring inquiries whether I still want to be on their list, they always end up saying 'um, no, not yet'. Well, I'm very sorry but then I will buy their phone 'um, no, not yet'. Sadly.
"Good news, everyone!"
Open source sucks hairy ass, always has, always will, look at Linux, what, 10 -15 years, still sucks, still no one wants to use it, still 1% market, lol.
The open source community couldn't write drivers for shit, they have what they require to write GOOD drivers for ATI cards, yet all they have produced is shit, I have never seen an open source app that even comes close to an equivalent Commercial/Proprietary one.
As with Windows/Linux, it's just like comparing professional/amateur, like putting the local boxing hero in the ring with an in his prime Mohammad Ali, he's got no chance, he's going to be killed, and this is repeated with open source, and especially Linux, Windows crushes it, always has, always will, Linux hasn't got a hope in hell, even if it didn't suck ass. The freetards and lusers (linux users for the uninitiated) are just to dim to know it.
This is why the phone failed, a half arsed job by a mob of amateur's, using amateur software on crappy out of date hardware, a typical open source project, and all the freetards wonder why it fails, well, duh!!!