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US Electricity Grid Reportedly Penetrated By Spies

phantomfive worries about a report in the Wall Street Journal ("Makes me want to move to the country and dig a well") that in recent years a number of cyber attacks against US infrastructure have been launched over the Internet: "Cyberspies have penetrated the US electrical grid and left behind software programs that could be used to disrupt the system, according to current and former national-security officials. The spies came from China, Russia, and other countries, these officials said, and were believed to be on a mission to navigate the US electrical system and its controls. The intruders haven't sought to damage the power grid or other key infrastructure, but officials warned they could try during a crisis or war."

30 of 328 comments (clear)

  1. Remember, folks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...you must live in perpetual fear. Whenever you're starting to focus on the reality of life, new fear WILL be injected into it to distract you. This is how the natural order sustains itself.

    1. Re:Remember, folks... by oodaloop · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Uh, does that mean that there aren't real dangers for which we need to be prepared? Might want to check your bathwater for babies before tossing it out.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    2. Re:Remember, folks... by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Are there real threats? Yes, of course there are. But when enough scaremongering is mixed into them, you get the reaction that the OP AC shows: Cry wolf once too often and people will ignore you.

      Also, there are a few things that I'd consider a lot more dangerous and worrysome that you don't hear about at all. Intentionally or not, your decision.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Remember, folks... by Thanshin · · Score: 4, Funny

      Whenever you're starting to focus on the reality of life, new fear WILL be injected into it to distract you.

      Oh god! I'm so afraid of the fear injecting big brother.

    4. Re:Remember, folks... by oodaloop · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How is a former official talking about a real threat scare-mongering? Should he have just kept quiet instead?

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    5. Re:Remember, folks... by afxgrin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not to mention the creation of an alien enemy. Obviously - OBVIOUSLY - the IP addresses come from Russia and China - and in no way could a proxy be used from those countries - by an American. No way that could ever happen.

      Obviously the spies are Russian or Chinese, because Americans would have no reason to hack into their own government's systems.

    6. Re:Remember, folks... by totally+bogus+dude · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Probably not coincidence, but that doesn't mean it's sinister or improper. If you knew of a significant threat that wasn't being addressed, and it was that time when the People In Charge were working out where to spend money (i.e. are actively seeking information and advice on the most effective use of their funds), wouldn't that seem like an ideal time to try to raise awareness of it?

      Or would you prefer to wait until there's no money to spend and nobody currently in a position to do anything about it before announcing it?

      Not saying it isn't all another scam to get free money, but just because it might be doesn't mean it is.

    7. Re:Remember, folks... by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I think the larger, basic question is:

      What the hell are systems like the electric grid doing hooked in any fashion to the publicly accessible internet?? These should be on their own network, separate and apart from anything that touches the public wan.

      Seems like that would have been a no brainer?!?!

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    8. Re:Remember, folks... by HangingChad · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In this case the parent is quite accurate. The truth is our electrical grid security has been dismal for decades. Hackers infiltrating control systems is only the latest discovery. If a foreign government wanted to sabotage our electrical grid it would be shockingly easy to do. 5 to 10 people working together with a few resources could black out the entire west coast for weeks if not months.

      Okay, so now they can disrupt control systems from the comfort of their data center. Whoopy do. Yes, fix the data security, but spend the money to make the needed improvements to physical security and redundant infrastructure. Our grid is routinely stretched to the breaking point. There's very little extra capacity. I think of people realized how vulnerable our electrical grid really is, they'd be terrified. The fact electricity is so reliable we take it for granted is testimony to the quality of the people working in the field.

      Imagine living in L.A. or San Francisco with no electricity for a week.

      --
      That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    9. Re:Remember, folks... by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mod parent up plse. He refers correctly to the type of brainwashing the way the Bush administration has pursuid the last 8 years. Off course there are still a number of elements present that continue this style up to today.

      You mean like the Obama elements?

      • "Profound economic emergency"
      • "[could] turn a crisis into an irreversible catastrophe"
      • "paralysis" and "disaster"
      • "the federal government is the only entity left with the resources to jolt our economy back to life."
      • "...but I can tell you with complete confidence that a failure to act will only deepen this crisis...."
      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    10. Re:Remember, folks... by ArcherB · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mod parent up plse. He refers correctly to the type of brainwashing the way the Bush administration has pursuid the last 8 years. Off course there are still a number of elements present that continue this style up to today.

      You mean like the Obama elements?

      • "Profound economic emergency"
      • "[could] turn a crisis into an irreversible catastrophe"
      • "paralysis" and "disaster"
      • "the federal government is the only entity left with the resources to jolt our economy back to life."
      • "...but I can tell you with complete confidence that a failure to act will only deepen this crisis...."

      You have the "Create a crisis" part down, but you forgot the "Profit" line.

      "Never let a serious crisis go to waste." -- Rahm Emanuel (Obama's Rove)

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    11. Re:Remember, folks... by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why not have both? Use the most secure protocols in existence to protect your network, and then as an added measure against zero-day exploits provide strong physical security to keep people out of this network.

      Such a piece of critical infrastructure shouldn't depend on any one human being who might be at a conference and need remote access. When a balistic missle submarine 1000 feet under the ocean is interpreting orders to nuke some foreign country do they depend on being able to reach some particular person to ask questions? Any system critical to national security must be engineered so that it is completely self-sufficient in a crisis.

      Electrical grids are very critical to national security. A well-planned attack could leave melted transmission lines, damaged generators and gearboxes, and a nationwide blackout in its wake. With the possibility of substantial physical damage it isn't like you could just repair from this kind of catastrophe in a few days - or even weeks. Power plants are physical machines that have a symphony of fast-moving parts with thousands of tons of force being transmitted - a well-engineered attack could result in major failures.

      Power grids should have as much security as any other piece of critical military infrastructure. They're going to be targets in any attack. The networks should be subject to routine penetration testing and auditing. Access needs to be the minimum needed to do any particular job. The system should be reasonably partitioned so that one spy getting a job in one office somewhere doesn't subject the entire system to compromise. Those who circumvent authorized procedures (rogue access points, bridges, etc) should be made public examples with criminal penalties. People should be given the funds needed to do their jobs right, and then should be expected to do them right.

      Security is just a matter of being thorough and not cutting corners. There is a lot at stake here. I don't really care who is behind these penetrations (Chinese, hackers, whatever) - the blame rests with the folks who should be protecting this infrastructure.

    12. Re:Remember, folks... by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I can well understand that. And I actually see the whole deal as an attempt to cover their butts to show that they "did something" concerning the threat. They'd be eaten alive by the media if something happened and nothing had been done.

      9/11 is a prime example. What was the first thing we heard? The FBI knew ages before the attack that something like this was planned. Sure they did. And they also heard about a thousand other things that never happened.

      You cannot prepare for everything. I do not expect that. I do expect reasonable preparations, at the most. My liberty is worth more than my life, and I do expect my government to primarily protect my freedom. If the solution to the terrorist craze is to eliminate all freedom then, well, why bother fighting? After all, a regime of terror, fear and total control is pretty much what the terrorists allegedly want to create for us. If we do that ourselves, do we really win?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    13. Re:Remember, folks... by SirGeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you have segregated networks, all the spy needs to do is find a single place to tap into your "secure" one, and you're toast. You thought it was secure, so you didn't lock it down properly. And somebody, somewhere left a way in, an unguarded terminal, or cheated and put a cross-connect to the public net for his own convenience, thinking it would never be found.

      Tha WOULD require them physical access to the facility. None of the control centers are going to just "allow" someone access to their network, let alone physical access to the facility. We are told to notify security (who will notify the police officer in the guard shack) if we see anyone who isn't badged.

      If it's all on the public net, but thoroughly locked down with good security and encryption protocols, and tight firewalls, you may be in better shape. You know it's dangerous to let your guard down. And we're also pretty confident we have protocols which, when applied to spec, are truly cryptographically strong, and so forth.

      The Control Centers aren't supposed to take that risk. Its separate the control centers from the company network AND from direct access to the internet.

      Plus it's a lot cheaper than building out a whole nother net, including access for your critical engineer who's off at a conference somewhere when the unpredicted crisis with the unique system in your plant that she's the genius about requires immediate attention. Sometimes making sure the right people have solid access from anywhere they are is also essential to security. The public net - with the right protocols - does that.

      Is it ? Can you honestly say that even the remote possiblity of a compromised system is worth the cost savings if it affects that existence of your company (as a control center) ?

      You have THAT room connected to specific routers that only allow "limited" access and ensure that the users can't install software that would compromise that system. You block their access to ANYTHING that they don't need for business reasons. PERIOD.

  2. So once a while by microbee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Some officials" come forward and warn about threats from China, Russia, Iran and North Korea. "Ya know, Sir, we need funding for enhancing national security, so please make sure you get your budget right."

  3. Former officials... by onion2k · · Score: 4, Funny

    former national-security officials

    Aren't these people just admitting that they were incompetent? That's refreshingly honest of them.

    1. Re:Former officials... by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not necessarily. I've been in the situation where security issues that I warned about, documented, and was refused resources or permission to secure were in fact used against my employer. The Morris Worm in 1988 was a particularly bad example: I had printouts of the management refusals to permit security updates in a locked cabinet to prevent tampering, and my goodness, was I glad I had those. I keep similar files to this day, as a matter of basic self-defense when layoffs are pending and managers are looking for things to blame on our technical people in order to fire them and avoid paying severance bundles.

  4. Software programs? by gzipped_tar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I thought mission critical computers should not be reachable from the Internet. So the spies walked to those computers and planted the software there???

    --
    Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
  5. Very convenient ... by krou · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the article:

    Under the Bush administration, Congress approved $17 billion in secret funds to protect government networks, according to people familiar with the budget. The Obama administration is weighing whether to expand the program to address vulnerabilities in private computer networks, which would cost billions of dollars more.

    So, the week before a review is due looking into whether or not they should increase the flow from the money pump, "current and former national-security officials" have come forward to draw attention to a network of spies in the power grid.

    Look, I'm not saying that cyber-attacks don't happen, or that there isn't a risk, but bloody hell, this article reads like a well-crafted piece of BS, designed to put the N back into FUDing.

    --
    'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
  6. Re:Why are they on the internet? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Informative

    The systems I work on are typically airgapped, but there is a constant push from users for some access to the internet. A user might need to access meteorological information, and the simplest way is to go online to get the data. Another user might need to refer to work instructions on the corporate intranet, but the intranet gets you to the internet anyway. Like it or not, the internet is working its way into many types of work and many people are starting to expect it to be available.

  7. China and Russia? by Thanshin · · Score: 5, Funny

    China, Russia, and other countries,

    So you mean there are people capable of hacking the US energy grid but who can't start the attacks from a hacked box in Madagascar?

    "Who's attacking us?"
    "Sir, the attacks come from half a million infected machines all around the world."
    "From all coutries?"
    "Yes, sir."
    "So China and Russia too?"
    "Hmm, Yes, of course, sir"
    "Damn commies... We should've nuked them a long time ago."

  8. Re:Why are they on the internet? by jolyonr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Then I'd suggest they need two PCs.

    --


    Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
  9. Re:Big surprise by AigariusDebian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nope, electrical grid computers in exUSSR region do not even have the theoretical capacity to be connected to the public Internet. I am amazed there is an actual data linkage between the public Internet and the computers even remotely related to the power control functionality.

  10. Re:Why are they on the internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    I actually do work with these exact systems. I have yet to install a system in a control room that had net access to the operator consoles or even the operational servers. These computers - yes, running Server 2003/8 or XP Pro - are patched to the latest and greatest before they leave our shop, but once on-site should never, ever, ever interact with the Internet.

    That being said, the PI data servers are designed to be a go-between for the internal secure network, and the rest of the world so the data logging can reach those who need it. Not only does the PI server have security protocols built in, but is required to be installed in a DMZ with full firewall protections, and in some cases a dedicated leased hard line to an off-site office.

    So, to summarize, no, the Op stations, the Op servers, should NEVER be connected to the Internet, and we do out best to disable any way of the operators even getting to the OS level, but there are times and reasons that you need to hook the internal network (through full security measures) to the outside world.

  11. Ya not a real surprise by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Everyone wants money for their projects. Part of getting it is knowing what to sell in your given field. Well, as of late with federal government dollars, national security has been the name of the game. Was more narrow to anti-terror but they are kind losing focus on that. So, it is also no surprise that is what people use to try and get the money, even if what they want really has fuck all to do with it.

    For example Consolidated Edison wants to install a super conducting core in for New York's power grid. Reason is the existing grid has load problems and this looks like the best way to handle it, rather than massive amounts of more copper. This is expensive, of course. To the best of my knowledge when this is deployed, it'll be the first super conductor used for commercial power delivery. Means plenty of R&D in addition to the actual costs. Well, sure would be nice if the government would help pay for that... So they got them to.

    How? Well they sold it to DHS as an "anti-terror" deal. No idea how this is supposed to be more terror resistant, but DHS bought it and that's what's important. They gave ConEd something like half the money they need for the project.

    Now you know that ConEd isn't really doing this as an anti-terror measure, they are doing it as a "grid is overloaded" measure. However, they put that spin on it to get government funding, and it worked. I'm betting this is a similar money grab.

  12. Re:Why are they on the internet? by jolyonr · · Score: 4, Funny

    On one they're controlling the power station, on the other they're reading slashdot.

    Unless typing 'FIRST POST! LOL' on the wrong box causes a reactor meltdown, I think we'll be ok :)

    Jolyon

    --


    Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
  13. Re:Quite so... by gclef · · Score: 4, Informative

    Close, they're drumming up support for S.773 and S.778. These bills are designed to give the executive the power to control the security of vital parts of the internet. If they can show that these vital parts of the net are compromised, and therefore risking America, they have an easy talking point when lobbying congress members.

  14. Re:Why are they on the internet? by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Blowing all my moderation to reply to this.

    Let me make this clear. Putting a critical system on to the internet is pure, stupid, incompetence.

    ALL of your "situations" can be solved with a second $399.95 DELL sitting next to the critical workstation. Anyone saying that that is not practical is a blathering moron. I have seen MANY water filtration plants that the Supervisors in charge of the whole operation are so incompetent they put the entire plant's operation system on the corporate or city network. Then we have the low quality SCADA software called WonderWare that is so badly written that the company requests they have direct access to the machines so they can issue fixes faster.

    If any mission critical machines are on anything but a sealed private non connected network, the person that designed it is a incompetent idiot that should take the fall for any failures. Gitmo time for whoever approved or asked for interconnection.

    I have been appalled at the amount of interconnection I see in really important SCADA systems. I have seen this stupidity in major infrastructure control systems for 14 years now. Typically put here by some asshole manager that wants to "keep an eye" on his guys while he is at home. he get's a workstation (typically the one in his office) set up with a second network card and Pc anywhere or another Remote control system to interconnect the secure to the un-secure. and does it with a stupid windows box. Then the idiot uses it to check email, surf the net,etc... All installed by your friendly company IT slackie After the SCADA installation guys go home.

    Every system I looked at that was "secure" typically had one of these bridging computers on it the only way to find the is to do a hard audit of every computer, the rate of finding these security breaches goes up as the age of the installation increases.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  15. The Attention is Healthy by anorlunda · · Score: 4, Informative

    The WSJ article was apparently triggered by a letter sent by NERC (North American Electric Reliability Council) to its members. I think it shows a healthy development of security digging down to yet another layer of depth.

    Forget the major computers in the major control centers. That's what everyone thinks of first. At that level it is becoming like the Indians and athropologists in the Grand Canyon. For every utility cyber worker there seems to be 30 government gumshoes and overseers looking over their shoulders. One would expect no aspects of security to be neglected at that level.

    The NERC letter refers to devices at a lower level. Primarily, what the industry calls "protective relays" in substations. From 1888 to a few years ago these functions were really done with electromechanical relays. Now, many of them have been replaced by digital equivalents on a one-by-one basis. In a household analogy, it is like the difference between a central electric control computer for the house, as compared to a "smart" digital LED light bulb. One worries about the central computer being hacked, but at first blush, not the light bulb.

    The problem is that the engineers who deal with this level of equipment aren't used to thinking of these devices like the light bulb instead of like computers in a network. They have not identified many of these low-level devices as "cyber critical". The NERC letter urges utilities to change that culture.

    This is an industry that owns and maintains hundreds of millions of diverse pieces of equipment. Every day, some fraction of them are converted to digital. No single study, no single policy can change this infrastructure overnight. I think they are approaching cybersecurity thoroughly and methodically, but it will take time.

    Remember Y2K? Roughly the same collection of hundreds of millions of devices were threatened by a common-mode failure (Y2K). It was very analogous to an external cyber attack. The utility industry tackled Y2K, thoroughly reviewed all those devices, and performed flawlessly on the morning of 1/1/2000.

    My point? Sure we should worry about cyber attacks on critical infrastructure, but don't jump to the conclusion that no security exists or that nothing competent is being done about it.

  16. Re:Why are they on the internet? by AB3A · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am a control systems engineer, a member of ISA-99, and a contributor to several other standards on industrial control system cyber security.

    The parent post is what SHOULD be done in a recently installed system. I can tell you from experience of dealing with other infrastructure (not the electric grid) that it isn't always that way. There were many systems installed around Y2k that are still in service. And most of you will remember that back then very few people took security seriously. Back then it was all about compatibility. Security wasn't even an issue. The big issue was SHARING the data.

    Control systems and SCADA have long working lives ranging from ten to twenty years. The reason for this is because the field I/O validation cost is significant. It dwarfs the cost of the software, the control center, and all that lovely flashy stuff you're so used to seeing. Updating a configuration is very expensive, not just in validation costs, but also training costs, for miscellaneous costs such as review of operating procedures, control system narratives, and so forth. This is why many are forced to keep their systems isolated in the hope that by doing so, things will somehow stay secure.

    But these days, that's no easy feat. Nearly every company has a contingent of data surfing desk jockeys with enough authority and enough dream-weaving synergy talk to push for interconnections. That's when things get very ugly.

    The problem isn't that they want the data. The problem is that they want the data IN REAL TIME. Most of the time these idiots say the term though they do not understand the implications or even what it means. And that's how the exploits get started.

    There are solutions. There are relatively secure methods for moving data in and out of a SCADA system. But they need careful review by people who know both the industrial side of things (to identify what is at risk) and the IT side of things (to know what the potential vectors could be). And the number of people with that kind of expertise is extremely small. We're talking about hundreds or maybe a thousand such people world-wide.

    There simply aren't enough people to train the trainers who will train the trainers. And so, we're stuck with the status quo until we can build a community of cross trained people who understand industrial processes, control systems, and IT large enough to handle this situation.

    I know many of you probably think you have it bad in the office IT business. And it is. Just know that there is far more truth in the Homer Simpson character than you'd ever dream of...

    --
    Nearly fifty percent of all graduates come from the bottom half of the class!