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EFF Lawyer Calls YouTube ContentID Worse Than DMCA

Richard Koman writes "Warner Music Group is apparently blocking everything YouTube ContentID comes up with as potential infringement. We knew that, but this piece by Jason Perlow shows that they're also spewing out DMCA takedown notices for some pretty clearly fair-use stuff. In my interview with EFF's Fred von Lohmann he talks about how, as bad as the DMCA process is — and it's pretty firmly against fair-use — YouTube's process gives remixers and digital creators even fewer options to assert their right to speak through the fair use of copyright material. While EFF is negotiating with Google and the studios, he suggests that users boycott YouTube if they won't stand up for fair use."

48 of 219 comments (clear)

  1. Alternative? by Fallingcow · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is there an alternative that's as easy to use and allows embedding of the videos on other sites?

    1. Re:Alternative? by seeker_1us · · Score: 5, Insightful

      An alternative is giving the giant middle finger to the RIAA and using ONLY independent music in your YouTube videos. Go creative commons, go attribution only, etc, and fully credit those artists so people can discover them and realize they can get good or better music without the RIAA

    2. Re:Alternative? by tepples · · Score: 2, Informative

      Vimeo isn't bad.

      But it is limiting. Vimeo doesn't allow videos that promote a business, unlike YouTube. Nor does it allow you to post videos licensed from some other author (e.g. under Creative Commons) or videos from the public domain; the uploader has to be the author. This means you can't post, say, video game reviews because you aren't the author of the video game.

    3. Re:Alternative? by mftb · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well that's justifiable - they don't want to be YouTube so they set up a niche (that, in my opinion, has led to a very good collection of videos). If you really want to post videos yourself, you can always host them yourself.

    4. Re:Alternative? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Probably the dog...

    5. Re:Alternative? by compro01 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They're just send takedown notices anyway.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    6. Re:Alternative? by brandonbradley · · Score: 3, Informative

      That might work if the RIAA hadn't already anticipated it and set up SoundExchange to collect royalties regardless of who it is created by. More info at the following: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/24/141326/870

    7. Re:Alternative? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Am I missing something here? I thought under the DMCA they could file a takedown notice, but the content provider could immediately file a counter-notice if it's legal?

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    8. Re:Alternative? by witekr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I got sent a YouTube infringement/takedown notice for posting a video of me improvising on the theme of "Summertime" on my midi keyboard. Is using the chord structure of a popular song and playing an original improv on it really infringing copyright?

    9. Re:Alternative? by Firehed · · Score: 2, Informative

      Spend $60/yr on a Smugmug medium-level account. They don't give a damn what you host (so long as it's legal, obviously), and as a bonus they don't compress the hell out of it like Youtube and all of the other flash-based sites.

      You lose out on the potential viral aspect of Youtube, but honestly there's so much crap on youtube anyways that it's practically irrelevant. And not having the youtube audience commenting is priceless.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
  2. If you can give a convincing fair use argument by tepples · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's called the dispute button. It leads you to a page listing several categories of valid and invalid dispute reasons. One of the valid options is "this use does not require the copyright owner's permission"; select the radio button next to that and you'll get a text box for further information. Put a Twitter-length explanation of why you believe your use is a fair use under the Copyright Act, and you just might win if you have a decent case. I won the only dispute filed against me, which was for the use of "Take Me Out" in this video explaining how it sounds like an Animal Crossing song.

    1. Re:If you can give a convincing fair use argument by Neoncow · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Write up your experience with filing your counter-claim. Add an easy to understand explanation of what DMCA is and why it's bad. The key is easy to understand and follow.

      Post it to a blog or website. Report back to slashdot and we can distribute it among young YouTubers.

      Education + youthful resentment of authority + Gen Y/Gen Z entitlement - Music videos == digital revolt.

    2. Re:If you can give a convincing fair use argument by mabhatter654 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      unfortunately, you're at the mercy of whatever low-paid operator they have looking at those.

      Other posters are correct though, the DMCA is too broad by miles, but Google couldn't run YouTube without the compliance laws. As long as Google continues to take down THEY stay out of court.

      I think Google might be planning a coup soon though. Remember things like ContentID are designed for studios to police there own works because Google wasn't doing "enough". Google's making it dead easy to identify copyrighted works, but on the other hand they're setting the content publishers up to take a big fall. They say 37% of the DMCA notices are inappropriate or incorrect... the CONTENT OWNER is expected to know fair use rules too. Once Google can demonstrate a clear pattern that publishers aren't respecting fair uses they can take that mountain of data to court with them... with all those companies names on it and put some feet to the fire to get the laws changed.

  3. Is there a solution by nicolas.kassis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whatever google does is going to end up being bad, including doing nothing. The online user submitted content arena is a total hell hole. I would not touch that stuff with a 10Gbit/s foot tube.

    1. Re:Is there a solution by DrEldarion · · Score: 3, Informative

      Google is doing exactly what they're required to be doing here by taking down the videos. The fair users are supposed to be filing DMCA counterclaims saying that their work does not infringe, and at that point the work will be put back up.

      It's not Google's job to be a mediator here. In fact, they open themselves up to legal liability (which they're trying really, really hard not to do with respect to Youtube) if they start becoming one.

  4. Actually by geekoid · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You-Tube is losing money, so use their services even more of you don't like them

    They give us content at a loss, but make up for it in volume.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Actually by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      increase of 101% does not mean profit.

      I think a cuople of informed /.'ers ahve posted a link already, so I won't bother.

      Thanks guys!

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Actually by mrbene · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You-Tube is losing money, so use their services even more of you don't like them

      They give us content at a loss, but make up for it in volume.

      I may having a bit of a slow day. This series of statements doesn't seem logically sound.

      Perhaps the intent is to state:

      1. YouTube is currently generating more cost than revenue.
      2. Due to economies of scale, infrastructure and delivery costs grow less quickly than audience size.
      3. Due to a larger audience allowing a premium on ad impressions, ad related revenue grows more quickly than audience size.
      4. It is YouTube's ultimate goal to become profitable by increasing audience size beyond the point that these two curves converge.

      However, this thesis is at odds with the recommendation to "use their services even more if you don't like them".

  5. Accidental plagiarism by tepples · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Learn to play an instrument, write something

    And get sued for accidental plagiarism. George Harrison got sued and lost (Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music). Michael Bolton got sued and lost (Three Boys Music v. Michael Bolton).

    1. Re:Accidental plagiarism by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ding Ding Ding! I had a situation at work where people used Happy Birthday as a melody for an iPhone music app. They were shocked to find out that it is copyrighted. The problem is that there is so much content out there that you can argue with just enough credibility to get into court that creative work A infringes on random creative work B. Despite all efforts by creators of A to be original. Not sure where I heard it, but this was one advice to future creatives types that stuck with me: "If you want to make a movie, do it in an empty white room with your two closest friends. Everything else opens you up for copyright claims."

      The point is that culture thrives on copying, modifying and playing with existing content. The harder corps will try to come down on small infringement, the less people will like the overall idea of copyright itself. One possible outcome is that WarnerBros gets everyone to turn into mindless consumers. Another possible outcome is that people get so pissed off that they manage to convince their congress critters to change copyright law in their favor. And I'm not sure the former is more likely than the latter.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    2. Re:Accidental plagiarism by TheFaithfulStone · · Score: 5, Funny

      "If you want to make a movie, do it in an empty white room with your two closest friends. Everything else opens you up for copyright claims."

      Sounds like a THX1138 ripoff to me.

    3. Re:Accidental plagiarism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Per the Wikipedia article, that song's copyright status is extremely dubious, and they could have simply used Good Morning To You, which is most certainly in the Public Domain and merely has a quarter note where Happy Birthday has two eighth-notes. That is, so long as they don't use the lyrics.

  6. Re:Crazy Thought! by Rockoon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They may still submit a DMCA takedown notice againt it, and google will still take it down...

    ..and now what do you do? Get a laywer? Cry? yeah...

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  7. Patents, Copyright, trademarks and IP by Smidge207 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Put a Twitter-length explanation of why you believe your use is a fair use under the Copyright Act, and you just might win if you have a decent case.

    Whoa. Hold on there, son. Yes, I agree: there is a strong need to change the laws that define patents, copyrights, trademarks and intellectual property. The current set of laws are either based on older laws or have been designed by the wrong people.

    But - and I need you to put down the remote and listen to me, child - there needs to be a balance between inventors, writers and the public. DMCA was written too broadly by the entertainment industry. Another hurdle that hurts the common man is the costs involved in getting a patent, copyright or trademark are at times higher than the expected revenue to be derived by having a patent, copyright or trademark.

    Fair use also needs to be protected. If a video of a child's music recital is taken down because of copyright laws, then those laws have gone too far. The song "Happy Birthday" apparently is still copyrighted, but the public is allowed to sing the song at special events without paying anything to the copyright holder.

    Art and music are vital parts of culture, the artists should have credit and benefit of sales; but, the public has a right to experience art and music without undue burdens that treat the enjoyment as a commodity. Fucking kids!

    =Smidge=

    --
    Is it just my observation, or is eldavojohn an idiot?
    1. Re:Patents, Copyright, trademarks and IP by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Informative

      Another hurdle that hurts the common man is the costs involved in getting a patent, copyright or trademark are at times higher than the expected revenue to be derived by having a patent, copyright or trademark.

      Actually you are wrong, at least as far as copyright. All you have to do to copyright something is write it down. That's it. No expense involved. If you've had it published, it is common to send a copy to the library of congress as proof that you did indeed write it, but it is not necessary.

      --
      Qxe4
  8. Given that YouTube is pissing money... by kylemonger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... to the tune of 470M per annum according to Credit Suisse analyst Spencer Wang, maybe we should pile on instead of boycotting them. :)

  9. Donate to EFF! by siliconwafer · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...he suggests that users boycott YouTube...

    Good idea. I also suggest making a donation to EFF.

  10. Tell you what by moniker127 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We don't NEED warner's music/movies. With the web, we've developed to a point where independently run shows are more entertaining than big business crap.
    Think hak5, collegehumor, derrik comedy, truenuff.
    Yeah, honestly, fuck warner. If they don't want to share, they don't get to be part of the future.

  11. What a bunch of sour grapes! by sweatyboatman · · Score: 5, Funny

    They don't like YouTube, they don't like Obama... does the EFF like anything?

    Seriously, write a press-release about how much you love little puppies or something. Your grumpiness is making me depressed.

    --
    It breaks my pluginses, my precious!
  12. Everything is worse... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    So the EFF says that YouTube ContentID is worse than DMCA, and that Obama's wiretapping defense is worse than Bush's...

    EFF: Tomorrow's Proclamations Will Be Worse Than Today's.

  13. Workaround by dhermann · · Score: 2, Informative

    I know there are a great many video editing tools out there, but here is how to do it in Sony Vegas.

    1. Highlight the audio track that is flagged.
    2. Choose Options -> Audio -> Apply Audio FX (or something to that effect; I don't have it in front of me)
    3. Choose Pitch Shift
    4. The top scroll bar is for very large shifts in pitch. You want a small one, so use the second slider. I am not sure what kind of threshold is necessary to avoid detection by YouTube, but a quarter-step (moving the slider to about 1/4 of the way from the left or right edge) should do the trick.
    5. If this track is already part of a video you've made, you probably want to choose "Preserve Duration". Pick one of the filters labeled as "Music". I use the "Best for Loud Bass" one.
    6. Finish.

    The theory behind this is simple: music operates in a key. It's a "baseline" set of notes that are usually pleasing when played together. What people usually don't understand is that any song can be played in any key, and it will sound basically the same. When you hear the pitch shift in effect the first time, the song will sound "wrong", but unless you are listening to it side-by-side, it won't matter.

    YouTube scans audio using small pieces of WMG songs as "fingerprints". They naturally assume that the songs they are looking for are in the same key as the original recording. By shifting the pitch a quarter step, the audio track will be impossible to match to their fingerprint. Keep in mind that this is a "workaround", that is, you could not rerecord a song in a different key and claim that it doesn't infringe on the original's copyright. But your YouTube videos are safe!

    Good luck finding the Pitch Shift feature in your video editing software. It's relatively simple, and should be available in most.

  14. Under Penalty of Perjury... by Devil's+BSD · · Score: 4, Interesting
    So as far as I know, all DMCA takedown notices must have the following legalese blurb:

    "I swear, under penalty of perjury, that the information in the notification is accurate and that I am the copyright owner or am authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed."

    IANAL, but it seems obvious to me that misrepresenting something that is clearly fair use as something that isn't means that the notification was NOT accurate. Therefore, the law firm representing the copyright holder (and possibly the copyright holder themselves) should have charges of perjury filed against them. I haven't seen the EFF file any countersuits like this yet, though...

    --
    I'm the Devil the Windows users warned you about.
    1. Re:Under Penalty of Perjury... by Thaelon · · Score: 3, Informative

      The penalties mentioned only apply if you're not actually the copyright holder. They do not apply if your DMCA claim is utter bullshit. In short, you can make false claims utter impunity.

      They were very careful to write the law that way so that it would have minimal repercussions for copyright holders when abused, and maximum impact even when abused. For that reason it's about the most heinous and abusive law ever passed in the U.S. as far as favoring corporations over the people.

      FYI: The DMCA a major focus www.chillingeffects.org.

      --

      Question everything

  15. Re:Crazy Thought! by idontgno · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This started with the cult of the Baroque composer. Check this. (warning: PDF)

    Johann Sebastian Bach was often criticized in later (post-18th-Century) critical literature for "borrowing" from other composers. If he or his son Johann Christian were starting out today, they'd be mixers, not composers.

    --
    Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  16. Scale of the takedowns by hack++slash · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Earlier this year when YouTube started silencing user posted videos in response to WB, someone posted this link which did a search for silenced YouTube videos.

    Right now there are over 22,000 search results, the highest I've seen it was 300,000+ search results, meaning overall YouTube appear to have silenced over well over 1/3 million videos (and probably then removed most of them).

    --
    To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
  17. Informational Video with Troy McClure by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Informative

    The New York Times reports that many YouTube users have found themselves in the same position as high school sophomore Juliet Weybret, who posted a video of herself playing piano and singing "Winter Wonderland."

    Troy McClure: Oh, how darling! That is one swinging rendition, Juliet!
    Troy McClure: But today I'm going to teach you the magic of copyrights! Do you know that you're violating the law?
    *Juliet shakes her head*
    Troy McClure: GOOD! That just might hold up as a defense in court if you look a little more sweeter and innocent. But your fate is up to the RIAA to decide!
    Troy McClure: You see, Juliet, copyright law is designed to be much too complex for any normal citizen to understand for a reason: so that you, the average citizen, will always lose. Now where did you learn that song from?
    Juliet Wybret: My grandma.
    Troy McClure: Jackpot! The RIAA loves to interact with the elderly that can't understand technology. I'm certain she paid a handsome sum to play that song for you though otherwise the two of you are thieves. You're not a thief, are you Juliet?
    Juliet Wybret: I don't think so.
    Troy McClure: Of course not! You see there is a simple law that states for works created after 1978 copyright lasts 70 years after the last surviving author's death (in the case of joint) and works between 1964 and 1977 are the same except were under the old model which had terms of 28 years starting in 1923 but they had to be renewed in order to enjoy the benefit of the full 95 year term after the last surviving author's death. Easy to remember, right? So you see, Winter Wonderland was composed by Felix Bernard who died in 1944 and the lyrics were written by Richard B. Smith who died in 1935. The good news is that you can publicly say the lyrics after 2030 and play the music on piano after 2039! So you're almost there!
    Juliet Wybret: Bu ... but my grandma and mom play this song for the whole family every Christmas ...
    Troy McClure: Easy there, Juliet! The RIAA's got enough ammo against you as it is. Remember, the Senators and Congresspeople who represent you and your interests want it this way so be an American Patriot and embrace the law! They were only thinking of a fair system for you and the artists when they made these laws. See you next time!

    --
    My work here is dung.
  18. ran across some of this earlier today by downix · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Earlier today I had an urge to listen to Devo's Jocko Homo from their self-produced movie.  Found two copies, only to have the sound removed because a record label was claiming copywrite on the music.  Hello, the music is within a movie which is copywrited by Devo Productions, how can you claim to control what is within their own movie?!?

    --
    Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
    1. Re:ran across some of this earlier today by PRMan · · Score: 2, Informative

      Easy. Bands don't own the rights to their own music.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  19. Re:Crazy Thought! by Petersko · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Learn 'blah' to 'blah' play 'blah' an 'blah' instrument, 'blah' write 'blah' something, 'blah' film 'blah' your 'blah' own 'blah' original 'blah' movie. 'blah' Copy/paste 'blah' is 'blah' not 'blah' art.'blah' --- yes it is"

    Let's play "spot the person with no significant artistic talent". Can I go first?

  20. Re:Crazy Thought! by Chosen+Reject · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But it is creative. Or I should say, it can be creative. That song did not exist until Kutiman made it. Not one of the videos he used were that song, they were their own songs (and in some cases just sounds), but not the one he created.

    --
    Stop Global Warming!
    Just say no to irreversible processes!
  21. YANAL by vlad_petric · · Score: 3, Informative

    Problem with fair use is that it's a very vague concept (at least in the USA) to begin with. RIAA is even claiming that it's not a right, but an affirmative defense. So anybody can claim that X is not a fair use of Y without committing perjury in any way.

    --

    The Raven

  22. Re:Crazy Thought! by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ever go watch a Shakespear play? There's often some darned good performances going on; real artists. None of them wrote the material.

  23. Synchronization is not fair use by Animats · · Score: 2

    Synchronization of music from source A with video from source B is not "fair use". Especially when big chunks of a song, or even the entire song, are copied.

    There's free royalty-free music available. There's vast amounts of cheap techno. Out of copyright classical. Garage bands. Or, in many cases, you can call up a minor label and buy a license. I've done that.

    Quit whining.

  24. 1 tweet in libraries of congress by tepples · · Score: 2, Informative

    Google's calculator appears not to support tweets or libraries of congress as units of information. But Wikipedia says one Library of Congress is 20 TB of text. Under this definition, one tweet (140 bytes) equals 7 * 10^(-12) LoC.

  25. A video of mine got taken down by TheDarkener · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...which clearly had no copyright infringement besides mentioning an auto system cleaning product. I made the video myself. No answer was given to me, only that I had a hit against my account and if I got 3, it would be deleted. There's obviously no way to battle their decision. It sucks.

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  26. Re:It's pretty sad by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There is nothing 'sad' about it. Many movements are pushed by a minority of people who understand the issue. For the same reason that YouTube can choose not to stand up for fair use, people who understand how important it is can criticize them for not doing it. They can also make as big of a stink as they can to try to bring awareness to the issue. Heck, they can even work to get the average Joe to get riled up and pissed at YouTube to make fighting for fair use the thing that best protects their profit margins. Writing them and e-mailing them to gripe isn't the answer. The answer is to get lots of people to write and gripe and boycott. This is accomplished through lots of public complaining.

  27. Boycott the big music companies and ... by Skapare · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... buy music that comes with clear permission to use the music you buy on places like YouTube.

    Disclaimer: My only association with Magnatune is being a happy customer.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  28. Re:It's pretty sad by Belial6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, you are missing the point. YouTube is selling our services. That is how advertising funded businesses work. We are not their customers. We are their laborers. Their advertisers are their customers. When you do work for someone, and you don't like their behavior, one option is to quit. Another option is to complain and try to get their other laborers to quit helping them behave socially irresponsible.

    I would go so far as to say that it is the corporate sense of entitlement that is the problem here. They are allowed to exist for the benefit of the citizens, but the sense of entitlement has gotten so bad that the idea that they owe anything to the people who make their existence possible is incomprehensible to them.

    YouTube's very existence that is not a right.