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GameStop Selling Games Played By Employees As New
Kotaku reports on a practice by GameStop which allows employees to "check out" new copies of video games, play them, then return them to be sold as new. Quoting:
"When a shipment of video games initially arrives at a store, managers are told to 'gut' several copies of the game, removing the disc or cartridge from the packaging so it can be displayed on the shelf without concern of theft, according to our sources. The games are then placed in protective sleeves or cases under the counter. If a customer asks why the game is not sealed they are typically told the the game is a display copy. The game is still sold as new. When check-out games are returned, we were told, they are placed with the gutted display copies. If a customer asks about these, they are typically told they are display copies, not that they have been played before. Since the copies are often placed with display copies, even managers and employees typically don't know which of these games have been played and which haven't."
The site seems slasdotted, so I can't RTFA, but my first thought is: what about games with draconian DRM that allows you to install it only a limited number of times? Employees playing those games may destroy the usefulness of those games.
My thought exactly. Except in cases where there is some kind of mandatory registration with a key on the box, or the disc is limited to the number of times you can read it, what is the difference between a disc that has been read once before and a disc that has not?
Is this the "I need a virgin" phenomenon?
I cannot believe this is just now becoming a "scandal."
I was a Gamestop assistant store manager in the early 2000's. This was policy way back then, and we abused the shit out of it. Yes, policy said you could only check out one thing at a time for a certain period of time (I remember it being six days, maybe things have changed ...) and you could only check out any given product once, and no products like OSes or consoles. In practice, we took whatever we wanted whenever we wanted for however long we wanted. All the managers covered for each other and the other employees when the district bigwigs came by. On inventory days everyone brought in a list of things to add to inventory. This was SOP for all the stores in my district, and pretty much every store nationwide if you believe the chit chat at the annual store manager meetings.
"Gutting" has been policy for at least that long too. Per policy, you'd "gut" one copy of a game and when it came time to sell, you'd repackage and re-shrink wrap it. We were supposed to shrink wrap the shit out of everything (Dreamcast software for example: pull the entire CD tray out of the jewel case, shrink the case and put it on the sales floor, shrink the CD tray and secure it behind the counter), but in practice that was too much work once there were 500+ PSX titles, 200+ DC titles, etc. I made sure there wasn't anything obvious left over (stickers with SKU numbers on CDs, for example), but many people didn't. We were also instructed when selling the gutted copy to just walk it to the back and shrink wrap it without offering any explanation. The old pre-EB POS system (which was written in QuickBASIC Professional, and I swear I am not making that up) used to say "Gut checks save lives!" as a part of the screen saver.
This is been going on for well over 10 years. CD-based software borrowed out and scratched. Cartridge-based software borrowed and sold as "new" with saved data on it. Ask any Gamestop employee if they pay for magazines or tax software. Ever wonder why every Gamestop has a shrink wrapper in back? Do you not know how to tell the difference between factory shrink wrap and re-wrap? Factory wrap is "crinklier" ... and there's always a seam somewhere where a small machine with a glorified hair dryer can't produce one (usually down the middle of the back of the package).
Oh, and my apologies to whoever ended up buying that one copy of XP Home we had. I didn't realize at the time that the product key couldn't be reused.
Or, maybe it's "I'd rather not have had someone else's machine (or kid brother, or whatever) scratch up the disc I spent $60 + tax on." Beyond that, it's simply a matter of integrity. If someone else has played the game, it's not a virg... I mean, it's not new anymore.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
I'm quite surprised that the rest of the world is just now being made aware of this practice. I worked for two competing shopping-mall chain video game stores in the mid-to-late 90's, and both of them had policies almost identical to this. The shrink-wrap machine in the back room made the fact that an item was "checked out" very simple to conceal from the customers.
To be completely honest, I really don't care, as long as:
- The materials are sold to me in a "new" condition
- If it requires any sort of registration key, I better not ever find out it's already been registered
Without this policy in place, I'm fairly certain a lot of video game stores would simply stop having employees; it's one of the best perks of working at one. Discounts are nice, but playing for free? That's even better.
Don Head
UNIX/Linux Administrator
Hate to break it to you but...
wait, no, I'm ecstatic to break this to you:
Your new car has been driven by several other people. Someone else popped its cherry.
And that $35,000 new car you just bought (that isn't really new) is way more than the $35 disk you just bought. And when it comes down to it, you can usually tell if you didn't get all the bits you paid for on a CD, but it's more difficult to tell if your new car has been abused.
In some ways, it's probably better to be played. At least you know there are no immediate catastrophic errors on the disk.
In fact I don't care if the game has been played before IF they tell me that. Otherwise if they say that the game is brand new, then it should be Brand New !
In game they dont have any kind of check out procedure which I ever had the power to use - sometimes we got promo copies of games which would be handed out as prizes to staff and then the staff would share them, but they were mostly shit games and no one gave a crap (I got sega superstars tennis hahaha).
From my friends, gamestation (which game now owns) DOES allow employees to check out disks, paying for them if they break it etc. But now all GAME and gamestation stores have a disk cleaning machine which will remove like 75% of scratches leaving the disk looking "as new".
Both stores "gut" games and put real boxes onto the shop floor, along with inserts sent from H/O. Some inserts are crap/unreadable/wrong and so you sometimes need the real box for the customer to be able to see what they are really buying.
However, even if we didn't gut games, i'd still say that about 5% are scratched IN the box, due to them falling loose during shipping etc. Luckly we can just disk clean them for free in that case and the customer is happy 99% of the time. If they kick off we might swap the disk for them for a brand new copy, but note it and if they return that too then we will refuse to return it again generally - all this is at managers disgression.
I no longer work for game, but this is how it was up until about 2 months ago.
- http://www.milkme.co.uk
The same thing happened to me when Assassin's Creed was released for 360. On release day I did not pre-order and called ahead to make sure they had copies in the store. They assured me they did.
...just like I can with a new copy?
When I got there and asked for it they said they didn't have it. I said I had just called and been told there were copies. The guy behind the counter turned to the guy next to him and said "Hey [co-worker], were you, uhhh..." and trailed off. He replied Lumberg-style with a "Yeeeahhhh, I was going to take it home... Naw, that's ok, sell it."
I was all like what the fuck man, and asked them if it was an open box copy that had been taken home by employees and played. He said yeah. I asked if I would be charged full price. The guy said of course and looked at me like he was the confused one. The three other employees nearby were similarly non-plussed. "If there's anything wrong with it you can return it."
I took the cash in my hand and put it away, said no thanks. There was another Gamestop on the way home that had it, nevermind the two Best Buys with obscene pallets of copies.
It was a braindead move on the employees' parts and I'd hate to think the manager would approve of that going down in front of a customer. But that's what happens when you have a bunch of kids running the front of house, unsupervised and with a shrink wrapper, and it's no surprise it's happening everywhere.
I treat the Gamestop sales counter like a casino chip-exchange. I watch every hand at every time, especially when they ask a co-worker to pull out a game. The kids back there do stupid, careless shit with your credit card/license/games/money, and they spend most of their free time dreaming up scams to get more money and more games. That's the business!
No offense to any upstanding Slashdotters working at Gamestop. I'm clearly talking about your slovenly coworkers.
Every xbox 360 game I bought has a special sticker on top that is broken once it is opened. I doubt you could easily replace that. I have seen this on US versions, Asian (HK) Versions and Japanese Versions.
So how can you fake that?
"Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
Many years ago I worked at the Harvey Norman computer chain in Australia and the games guys often took games home at the weekend to check out. The reasoning was simple - if you've played a game and a customer wants advice on which game to buy you're in a position where you actually know what you're talking about rather than just staring at them blankly. This was before the days of the internet being widely available, but I think the policy still holds true. If you're buying a game at a marked up price from your local software mart then the staff there better know what they're selling - otherwise how can you justify the retail space and the markup? So far from being a scandal, I call this sensible business practice.
We do the same thing with Chup-A-Chup lollies. Give each flavour a bit of a lick, so the shop assistant can give knowledgeable advice about them, then wrap the lollies back up and sell them as new. After all, it'd be a waste of cash to actually set aside ones for the employees and not sell them. That'd just not be sensible business practice.
No scratching or anything, just your run of the mill dye fade.
Stamped CDs and DVDs have no "dye" to fade. Was the plastic still clear? (Use a bright light to see through the dark-purple PS1 disc plastic.) Did the laser in the console still read other discs? Was there rot or other damage close to around the edge?
In some ways, it's probably better to be played.
When I buy a car, I don't get a code that could have already been activated/banned etc that completely renders the car disabled; even though, the car looks new without even a scratch. A car can be test driven, a car is repairable, and, the buyer is covered by lemon laws. Lemon laws for games anyone? ;)
Automobiles are automobiles and CDs are CDs.
Sig Return: 204 No Content
For a little extra, GM will actually let you take personal delivery of a new Corvette at the factory, after personally supervising its construction: http://www.corvettemuseum.com/ncm_delivery/index.shtml
"Because Science" is one step from "Because old book". Try "Because of my experiment testing my falsifiable assertion".
That has always bothered me. In fact, I was thinking about it on the way to work this morning. From my experience, I have about 100-150 thousand miles before I have to dump major money into a car for a major repair. I've done the following exercise several times: Take the total price of a car new and divide it by the expected remaining lifespan prior to major repairs, do the same with a late model used car doesn't matter if it is in the paper or sold by a dealership(although the price will be higher for a dealership). I've found in general a used car will already have used up a third to half of its lifespan before being sold as used, but the price will in no way be near 2/3 to a half of what the original price was even taking into account resale value when you get near the end of that lifespan. Maybe it works different for more pricey vehicles than I've ever been able to buy, but the whole drive it off the lot price drop only seems to matter if you rotate cars every few years.
Absolutely true. Particularly when you go to the store and see a game on the shelves as both - sometimes the difference in price between the new and used versions are $15 (sometimes only $5). For something that I just see on the shelf that interests me, I'll often pickup the used version. For something that I think I'll like more and play longer (or most certainly if I'm buying the game as a gift for someone else), I'll splurge for the new.
When I pay that extra money specifically for a new copy, leaving used ones back on the shelf, I damn well better get a new and SEALED copy of the game.
That said, knowing these policies, on the 1 or 2 cases where I tried to buy a new game from Gamestop and they proceeded to pull it from a storage envelope, I immediately stopped the process, got my money back (explaining why), and headed next door to Wal-mart to buy the game.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
And that $35,000 new car you just bought (that isn't really new) is way more than the $35 disk you just bought. And when it comes down to it, you can usually tell if you didn't get all the bits you paid for on a CD, but it's more difficult to tell if your new car has been abused.
... when I buy a product, I expect it to come in its original packaging straight from the factory. When its out of its packaging, I have no idea where the product has been. Sure, it could have been safely stowed in drawer, but seeing the assholes who work at my local gamestop, I can only assume the game has been used as a coaster for a cigarette stuffed bottle of stale miller light. How am I to know otherwise?
... hey, if you are looking for new games to buy, I got a bunch of them at my house. Give me a buzz sometime and I'll warm up my shrink wrap machine.
A video game is not a car. When a consumer buys a car, he has different expectations than buying a video game. The other neat item that destroys your equation is a little thing called an odometer that tells the user precisely how much wear and tear is on the vehicle. And if the odometer reads a high mileage, you can negotiate a lower rate. When a consumer buys a "new" video game from gamestop, the price is always 59.99 even if the box has been opened.
In some ways, it's probably better to be played. At least you know there are no immediate catastrophic errors on the disk.
So you are saying it is better to buy a used copy of a game, seeing as how the early adopter has already tested the game for you? Sure, I have no problem with that. That's why I buy a used copy of the game. I don't need a "food taster" for my crap when I buy it new.
Look
And I still haven't reached you
All little wordplay for you:
Hate to break it to you but...I checked out your [game/wife] out sometime ago. Yeah, yeah I know you thought [it/she] was untouched and paid full price but we barely had 10-12hrs of passionate [gameplay/lovemaking] together. This was long before you decided to [buy it/marry her]. I didn't leave any marks...well that's not entirely true but you can barely see those [scratches/scars]. Don't worry, you'll still get to have your fun. If it doesn't work out there is a [sequel/sister] and my buddy says [it/she] is much better and he's only 8 hours in. I hope you like store credit.
I worked at a local cd/game shop a few years back, and we had console demo stations where we would put in the most current release for folks to try out. When we switched out the games and sold the opened copy, we would inform the buyer that because the game was already opened, they couldn't return the game for anything except the same game (if there were scratches or anything), which we had to do by law, opened copies cannot be returned for cash (thanks DMCA!) So if they were buying it for a gift or something, we would give them an un-opened copy. If they raised a fit and we only had the opened copy, we'd give them the "local" discount which was like $2. And, if they were still reticent about buying a used copy, we'd mark their receipt to note that they had bought an opened copy so there wouldn't be ANY problem with a return. As long as people know what they are buying, there isn't a problem with such a practice. If Gamestop isn't telling people these opened games are non-refundable, then there's a problem, but otherwise, this is a non issue.
Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
So you got a bonus piece of cheese with your game and you're complaining!?
Well, for starters, used games ares sold at a discounted price from new games. So if you are buying a game at the new price, and it's been played before, one would consider that a little dishonest.
Xaotik Designs
Lay off the FUD, if you do have this happen, then you will return it and get a new copy of the game.
You're missing the point... Now this person has to drive home, pop the game in, enter the code, find out it's broken, drive back, argue for a new copy (which might not be new), drive home and repeat the cycle?
The point is, if the game is sold as being NEW, then it should be NEW.
The last time I bought a gutted game at GameStop, the manual had grease and food remnants all over it. It also already had a saved game. That was the last time I purchased anything at GameStop.
Yes ... odometers can be reset. It is not an easy thing to do that results in prison time if you are caught doing it. I'm guessing people who roll back their odometers don't get a lot of repeat customers seeing as how the quality of cars aren't a priority to those dealers.
... forget about the whole sticker thing. There's an easier solution. Don't buy new games at Gamestop. Problem solved. Granted, I don't have problems buying a used game there although I still find their prices way overpriced (Fable 1 for the Xbox was going 15 bucks used -- wtf???). Personally, I like getting my used games from gamefly. Most of the discs are in great condition and the box doesn't require latex gloves to handle it.
And hey
I work at Gamestop NOW. I've never heard of this. At least not as a store policy. It's entirely possible a few stores do this, but those of us who follow the rules(which is most of us) just wait until a used copy is traded in and then we try it out. We have a rental policy with used crap, but new stuff we do not take out of the sleeve. We DO NOT take out PC games. They are only sold as new and thus we cannot use them.
My guess is they interviewed a few bad employees. Not "bad" as in liars or people who hate Gamestop, but "bad" as in the kind of people who generally ignore the rules themselves and then get the fortune of being saddled with a boss who doesn't really care. I know(at least in Westchester, NY) that we can only rent out the used, and anyone caught doing that to new games gets fired.
What sucks about this is the games ARE new, and we still get the hours of demands from customers that we shouldn't charge as much for the unsealed copies. And now stuff like this comes along, the three or four who read Kotaku and don't already buy used are gonna let this stupid rumor spread. Which is going to, in turn, lead to more motherly figures giving me the business about how they heard from their computer nerd children that Gamestop is lying to them. After all(in the public eye), if one store lies, all of them do.
This probably won't change things much, but odds are the company is going to pull some very unhelpful shit now to ensure the appearance of compliance. After all, if you read that handbook through, Gamestop does not come off as fond of it's employees. Seriously, they all but write glowering emotes in the book.
Which also reminds me, the reason I'm posting this anonymously is because if you publicly speak for Gamestop(positively or negatively), and are under the employ of Gamestop, then you will be fired. No questions, just the axe.
When I bought Metal Gear 4 for the PS3 from a Gamestop in Austin all they had left was the gutted copy. I asked if there was a discount since it was opened and they gave me 10%. I thought that was reasonable.
Record stores (some of you maybe old enough to remember such things) play the CDs in the store before people purchase them too! Don't really see the problem.