Slashdot Mirror


Hungary, Tatarstan Latest To Go FOSS

christian.einfeldt writes "It seems as if almost every other week there is news of another government migration toward Free Open Source Software. Two of the most recent such moves come from Hungary and the tiny independent former Russian republic of Tatarstan. On April 2, the Hungarian government announced that it will be modifying its procurement rules to mandate that open source procurement funding match expenditures for proprietary software, according to Ferenc Baja, deputy minister for information technology. In Tatarstan, a Republic of 3.8 million inhabitants, the Deputy Minister of Education announced that by the end of this school year, all 2,400 educational institutions in Tatarstan will have completed a transition to GNU/Linux, following a successful pilot program it rolled out in 2008."

23 of 129 comments (clear)

  1. Doing the math... by Argumentator · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "Mandate that open source procurement funding match expenditures for proprietary software"

    In other words, their expenditures for proprietary software must equal to $0.00?

    1. Re:Doing the math... by icebike · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Don't confuse open source with free.

      OSS could be free, but it could also cost money. Money for training, installation and updates.

      Red Hat, Novell/Suse Ubuntu, etc all have support packages programs available which government and education departments may want to utilize to help assure smooth and continued operation.

      But presuming the outlay for proprietary software would have similar requirements, you can see that for every copy of windows they could obtain an unlimited number of Linux desktop copies.

      This will might allow them spend their money on custom or specialized applications which just might happened to be proprietary.

      Meanwhile, the technical community that develops in that environment will have a whole different skill set than those that develop in the Microsoft mono culture.

      Western governments, still dependent on Microsoft are sandbagging themselves into a smaller and smaller dry-hole against the rising tide of Linux everywhere else in the world.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:Doing the math... by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As in 'training' costs for open source software versus proprietary closed source licence fees, it also allows money to spent spent on customising open source software for specific long term applications versus throwing away money on 'temporary' software licence fees (the reality being they often last no longer than two years in actual use).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    3. Re:Doing the math... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This seems to happen in places where money, and especially foreign exchange are at a premium. A big advantage for the Tatarstan Ministry of Education is that they don't have to commit to lots of purchases in US dollars. Instead, as you point out, they can make their own engineers who will work for local currency, and educate their people at the same time.

    4. Re:Doing the math... by tftp · · Score: 4, Informative

      Tatarstan is part of Russian Federation, which means that they can hire programmers and IT people from anywhere in Russia, not just from its own, much smaller, population. UNIX (*BSD and Linux) is well known in Russia.

  2. Desktop Linux by derrida · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's the way to the desktop. Through governments and big organizations.

    --
    nemesis. Home of an experimental fe code.
    1. Re:Desktop Linux by lukas84 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Windows isn't exactly cheap in a company environment, but it does require very little development resources compared to FOSS for most deployments.

      For a company, this means that you have less in-house development which means you can buy personnel on the market which is already proficient with the infrastructure you use, and that there is no need to develop software in-house.

      Especially for smaller companies, this pans out mostly okay. For larger companies, Linux may make sense as the cost of in-house development and Microsoft licensing may start to get on even footing.

      Apple certainly isn't aiming for corporate users - they do not offer any system management, monitoring tools, software deployment, policy enforcement, etc. Their server offerings are extremely few, and their server software is only designed for department use.

      I have no idea how Apple runs it's internal IT, bu then again they have an user base that constists largely of technically proficient people, and my suspection is that they probably just grant local admin rights to all their users - it would be interesting to read on "How Apple does IT".

  3. Might just be a buzzword conglomeration... by samriel · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Free Software != !cash software. They may have to pay like $10,000 for the source code for some big program, or to develop said program and OSS it.

  4. Re:Equal spending but... by Alien+Being · · Score: 3, Funny

    It makes perfect sense. For every one million OpenOffice installations, a government department can buy zero copies of Microsoft.

  5. Expect More of This by rossz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    With the world economic situation putting strains on government money, they will be forced to consider cheaper alternatives. OSS can be much cheaper, but its cost is not going to be zero. You have to consider training and support. Even so, substantial savings can be had by going the OSS route. Companies like Microsoft must be shaking in their boots. If OSS gets a decent foothold in government, it will cause an expansion in the private sector. Years from now when the economy improves, OSS will be firmly entrenched.

    Hopefully, financially responsibility in government will occur elsewhere as a result, but I'm not holding my breath.

    --
    -- Will program for bandwidth
    1. Re:Expect More of This by icebike · · Score: 4, Interesting

      > OSS can be much cheaper, but its cost is not going to be zero. You have to consider training and support.

      On the other hand, we all know that children arrive from the womb conversant in the ways of Windows?

      You can't seriously think this requirement ONLY applies to opensource, can you?

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:Expect More of This by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, but these governments already have computers, and they are switching to free-libre software. The fact that they are switching is where the training costs are incurred -- temporary, yes, but costs that must be overcome if free-libre software will gain a foothold.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    3. Re:Expect More of This by tftp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      OSS can be much cheaper, but its cost is not going to be zero.

      All countries make a big distinction between (a) importing foreign goods and (b) paying their own citizens in local currency. Countries sell only so much on international market, and so they can only buy an equivalent amount of goods[*]. Here not only you free a part of your foreign trade up for other necessities (like patented medical materials or instruments,) you also create jobs for your own citizens.

      [*] Does not apply to the USA, which is still living off of its credit card.

    4. Re:Expect More of This by Savior_on_a_Stick · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Let me postulate this:

      MS awakes tomorrow, and jumps with both feet on the foss model.

      However, they also charge for support.

      Now, given MS existing penetration, could the *nix companies compete?

      MS has depth of support that few linux companies can approach.

      I indirectly worked for them briefly after the 95 launch as a support rep.

      I had a case escalated to the point where MS paid for the customer to ship their PC to Redmond so that the engineering department could comb through it to diagnose a low level driver that was flaky.

      The result was a hotfix that replaced the floppy driver used for Toshiba notebooks.

      The whole process took very little time - a couple of weeks.

      Sure, linux *can* respond as quickly, but as a rule it doesn't.

      Case in point - the glaring flaw in the glibc libraries of RH 6.2 that made it wholly unusable on multiprocessor servers because threads would start spawning and eating up resources until the system crashed.

      Yeah - it was that bad.

      Yeah - RH knew about it, and so did many developers in the community.

      No, no one ever did fix it iirc.

      It remained broken until 7.0 came out, and it had it's own serious flaws.

      So, can linux compete from a support standpoint?

  6. pebble in the puddle by 10am-bedtime · · Score: 2

    I'm reminded of a pebble dropped in a puddle. The initial splash causes ripples that lap the sides, wetting them enough so that flies settle to eat there. The pebble, meanwhile, lies there and is only seen again after all the life surrounding the puddle has erupted and moved on, after the baking sun is done its drying.

    So it is w/ Free Software in the United States.

    It's not bad being outside, it seems. Lighter and more free.

  7. Hard to be optimistic about Hungary by Charles+Dodgeson · · Score: 4, Informative

    After some searching, I haven't actually found much more in the Hungarian news than was reported in TFA. So, I can't add many details.

    What I can say is that there is a fair chance that the coalition that rules Hungary today will not be in place six months from now. Secondly, Hungary needs immediate cost savings. It is not in any position to spend money now to save money later.

    This might be part of the motivation. Hungary's currency is in collapse, so it is much cheaper for the government to pay local developers in forints for software and systems than it is to pay Microsoft and Novell in dollars or euros.

    I'd love to know the internal machinations that went on here, but I suspect that someone took the opportunity of the fall of the forint and the foreign currency debt problem (an enormous problem) to push an open source agenda. Whether this will hold up, or whether MS will make a counter offer allowing the Hungarian government to pay cheaply in forints remains to be seen.

    --
    Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
  8. Re:Geography lesson? by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Informative

    Indeed. Perhaps they were confused by the common phrase "former Soviet Republic", which refers to entities that were formerly Soviet Socialist Republics (SSRs), but became independent around 1991, like Ukraine.

    Republics of Russia, though are subnational entities that are still part of Russia (pre-1991, part of the Russian SFSR). They are one of several kinds of top-level subnational divisions of Russia, others including Oblasts and Krais and so on. The Republics are those with a traditional non-Russian population, so have some autonomy in the areas of language use. But they're effectively what other countries call provinces or prefectures.

  9. FINALLY the year of desktop Linux in Tatarstan!! by jmcbain · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well it's about time! We can rejoice, my FOSS brothers.

  10. Tatarstan is not former by petr999 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Tatarstan is the subject of Russian Federation and actually is the same way independent as any other one.
    More to say: sovereign independence of Tatarstan is the thing both impossible because it has no any outer state borders AND inevitably should lead to total destruction of Russia which is not the case to happen.
    As a fact, the "pilot education program" about FOSS is the Alt Linux disk set packaged with a book for schools, is performed in several regions of Russia, Tatarstan is simply among them.
    I even know someone in person from altlinux moscow based development team who is originally from Tatarstan.
    Hope this is a fix to correct the info.

  11. looks like... by Fissure_FS2 · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... Tatarstan will get a lot of plaque from Microsoft for this move.

    (yes, I originally read it as "Tartarstan")

    --
    My life's goal is to get a score of +3!
  12. Let me get this right... by ignavus · · Score: 2, Funny

    Russia - which used to be the bad guy - is adoptng Linux - which is the good guy - while the US - who is supposed to be the good guy - keeps hanging onto Microsoft - which are the bad guys?

    So who are we supposed to support if they ever go to war?

    PS: are they going to change the name of the capital of Tatarstan to Linuxgrad? And they could also have a Stallmangrad. Think of the tourism income from geeks...

    --
    I am anarch of all I survey.
  13. Re:MMM FOSS by linhares · · Score: 2, Funny

    In Hungary, Steve Ballmer usually gets eggs.

  14. Not tiny, not former, not independent by Noiser · · Score: 2, Informative

    Tatarstan is not tiny - it is one of the most populous and important regions of Russia. Its capital Kazan is one of the most important cities in Russia.

    Tatarstan is not independent - it is an autonomy within the Russian Federation.

    Tatarstan is not a former Russian republic - see above.