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UK To Train Pro-West Islamic Groups To Game Google

Hugh Pickens writes "The British government's Office of Security and Counter-Terrorism (OSCT), a 200-strong Home Office unit created 18 months ago, has said in meetings it wants to 'flood the internet' with 'positive' interpretations of Islam and plans to train government-approved groups in search engine optimization techniques, which it is hoped will boost their profile online and battle radicalization. A Home Office spokesman confirmed search engine optimization training is part of the government's anti-radicalization strategy. 'In order to support mainstream voices, we work with local partners to help develop their communication, representational and leadership skills. This support could include media training, which can help make their voices heard more widely, and support the development of skills which allow communities to be more effective in debate.' However the effectiveness of search engine optimization in reducing traffic to extremist websites has been dismissed by academics. A report produced by the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation (ICSR) said young Muslims were much more likely to be directed to extremist material online by web forums and offline associates than by Google or other search engines. 'Tweaking the results for supposedly extremist terms would be largely ineffectual, not least because it is unlikely that any but the most callow wannabe terrorist would use a mainstream search engine to find banned material.'"

33 of 469 comments (clear)

  1. Imagine by Alarindris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dear Religion,

    You are a pain in the ass. Please go away soon.

    Imagine there's no countries.
    It isn't hard to do.
    Nothing to kill or die for,
    And no religion too.
    Imagine all the people,
    Living life in peace.

    Love,
    Sane People

    1. Re:Imagine by MrMr · · Score: 3, Funny

      This has got to be one of the worst cases of public sector idiocy I've ever seen
      Really?. The UK has an official state religion; Top that.

    2. Re:Imagine by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Their biggest mistake is failing to understand the militant Islamic movement. It has far less to do with religion and far more to do with male chauvinist pigs, the misogynists. Their underlying hatred of the west has far more to do with the equality of women than it does with prophets and gods.

      No amount of propaganda or reason will change their attitudes, there is no middle ground by which they can be approached. They see the independence of women on western media and they feel threatened and they know that their abusive lifestyles are at risk, life styles based upon dominance and abuse and that is the way they react to that threat, with arrogance and violence.

      They simply use the masquerade of religious belief to hide behind, a mask to hide the violent lusts that drive actions. They have very reason to feel threatened, their immoral and unethical lifestyles are coming to an end and those that refuse to change will either spend the rest of their lives in prison or perish in their violent struggle.

      So the government needs to basically get down and dirty, and break that association and expose the underlying motivation of destructive militant religious movements (to be fair here, the same can be said for fundamentalist Christianity as for Islam).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    3. Re:Imagine by jmv · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've been told that in some places in the US, the song gets edited to say "And *one* religion too". Kind of changes the intent a bit, doesn't it.

    4. Re:Imagine by digitig · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Dear Religion, You are a pain in the ass. Please go away soon.

      Although religious nutjobs are an easy target, please try to remember that the problem is with the "nutjob", not the "religious", and the atheists can field a fair number of nutjobs too. Militant atheist Sam Harris, according to "The End of Faith" apparently wants to see humanity exterminated, religious and atheist alike, rather than allow religion to continue to exist, which comes over as "nutjob" to me. And "The End of Faith" comes with an endorsement from Richard Dawkins (although I don't know whether Dawkins endorses that particular bit). Basically, if somebody wants to kill me because my beliefs differ from theirs, or as collateral damage getting to somebody whose beliefs differ from theirs, I don't care whether they're religious or atheist, I'm opposed to them.

      So how about: "Dear persecution in the name of ideology, you are a pain in the ass. Please go away soon."

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    5. Re:Imagine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In the 20th century, both Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany imagined - and tried to create - societies where there was no religion.

      Wrong. Nazi Germany did not. The storm troopers' belt buckles used to say, "Gott mit Uns."

      That's propaganda put about by the believers to try to persuade people that atheism leads to totalitarian fascism.

    6. Re:Imagine by stdarg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Their biggest mistake is failing to understand the militant Islamic movement. It has far less to do with religion and far more to do with male chauvinist pigs, the misogynists. Their underlying hatred of the west has far more to do with the equality of women than it does with prophets and gods.

      You think it's genetic or something? That no matter how these people were raised, no matter what belief system they have, they would still be chauvinists?

      It's a minor distinction because I agree with you that Islam and chauvinism are intertwined. I just think it's pretty clear that the overarching belief system into which you are born has a big impact on your attitude towards women, not the other way around.

      So the government needs to basically get down and dirty, and break that association and expose the underlying motivation of destructive militant religious movements (to be fair here, the same can be said for fundamentalist Christianity as for Islam).

      There are LOTS of fundamentalist Christians in the US and how much terrorism are they responsible for? Compare that to the number of fundamentalist Muslims also in the US who were arrested for terrorism plots. It's nice and PC to add "oh and also Christianity" but it's not very realistic.

    7. Re:Imagine by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ~10 Muslims were arrested for terrorist plots in the US. In the same time frame hundreds of doctors have been threatened, and some have been murdered, for providing women with abortions. Let's not forget the murder of Matthew Sheppard. There are 2 abortion providers in Mississippi, all the others have been forced out of Mississippi by harassment. In Mississippi many pharmacies do not carry oral contraceptives. Doctors who prescribe the morning after pill frequently find their patients cannot find the drug. The Christians in the United States do not resort to terrorism because they have already won.

      --
      Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
  2. How to get free government PR for your religion by XavierItzmann · · Score: 5, Insightful
    So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of Buddhism?

    After all, don't we want young Buddhists to be much less likely to be directed to extremist material online?

    Oh, sorry, forgot the UK government only sponsors your religion when you are violent. If you are peaceful, you are on your own. Do your own damn PR!

    "it wants to 'flood the internet' with 'positive' interpretations of Islam and plans to train government-approved groups in search engine optimization techniques"

    --
    The next pasture is always greener
    1. Re:How to get free government PR for your religion by Thanshin · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dear UK government.

      As has been proved over and over, we gamers are violent.

      Our Google-fu is mighty, but we don't have apropiate sites of reunion. The sensible action would be to pay for the construction of gaming churches where gamers can go to get involved in a friendly community and thus avoid further killing sprees.

      Yours dearly, F4T4L M4SS4KRE.

    2. Re:How to get free government PR for your religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of NuLabour.
      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of ID cards
      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of more CCTV cameras
      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of bonuses for rich crooks running banks
      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of more taxes to improve things (their bank accounts)
      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of 3 entire towns wiped out to build Heathrow's 3rd runway
      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of Phorm style monitoring of all communications
      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of Big Brother, for their gain and their rich friends gain, at our expense.
      etc... etc.. etc...

      The people in power are put there by us and work for us. They are not there to manipulate us, yet that is what they are doing relentlessly. Yet still, so many people fail to see the danger in not defending against these corrupt people in power gaining ever more power over us all. The people in power are building their own Plutocracy (ruled by the rich), which since the finacial collapse, is looking ever more like a Kleptocracy (ruled by thieves). These power seekers in power don't want a democracy, they want to be the people in power to dictate to us all for their own gain at our expense, literally.

  3. Once again I apologise by Kupfernigk · · Score: 3, Informative

    For the British Government. I find myself again having to explain to non-UK readers that we do not elect the Prime Minister, and owing to our elective dictatorship system, the present Prime Minister has never, in fact, been voted for by anybody outside the Scottish province of Fife. The Home Office is run by someone, Jacqui Smith, who makes Condoleeza Rice look like the greatest liberal brain on the planet (and charges the taxpayer $3000 a month for her sleeping in her sister's spare bedroom). Unfortunately, just like you with GWB, we can do nothing about it until next year. Until late 2010 then, be ready for a stream of "how stupid can the British Government get?" stories.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Once again I apologise by jrothwell97 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All the more reason to vote Lib Dem at the next election, then.

      --
      Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
    2. Re:Once again I apologise by abigsmurf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think you grasp what a dictator is, nor how our electoral system works.

      Our country is run by the party, not by the prime minister. The Prime Minister is just the appointed representative/head of the party. Don't like the decisions a part makes? Don't vote for them. If the party doesn't like what the prime Minister does, they do a vote of no confidence or vote against his law changes. The PM only has as much power as the party allows.

    3. Re:Once again I apologise by blackest_k · · Score: 3, Informative

      I can't see how it will stop in 2010 regardless of who is in power, the only difference will be which asshat is in power. Obviously the political parties will offer us all something that we like the sound of and try to bury the unpopular policies. So a new government comes in or gets restored they then make some show of implementing or delaying implementing the popular policies that got them to power and at the same time doing things we distinctly dislike.

      While you can argue that perhaps that it seems reasonable for a general election to be called on change of prime minister, its not backed up in practice

      http://tutor2u.net/blog/index.php/politics/comments/unelected-prime-ministers-the-political-and-constitutional-importance/

      "'When a party in government replaces its leader, there is no need for the new prime minister to call an early general election. Macmillan waited 2¾ years, and Callaghan three years until he was forced to hold one by a Commons vote of no confidence. Douglas Home waited a year, and John Major 15 months, but they were near the five-year limit before an election has to be called. Eden called an election almost immediately after taking office, but the parliament was more than 3½ years old. After succeeding the dying Bonar Law in May 1923, Baldwin went to the polls within six months on the issue of tariff reform, only a year into the Parliament, but lost - an unhappy precedent.' "

      So its a bit of a mixed bag theres been a few unelected prime ministers from both sides. John Major was the last Conservative Prime minister to do so.
      If Gordon Brown wasn't Prime Minister, it would probably still be Tony Blair but definitely not David Cameron till at least 2010.

       

  4. Re:Islam, eh? by palegray.net · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For once I'm going to have to encourage the mods to actually read an incendiary post (re: parent) in its entirety and do some fact-checking before modding the poster down. There's actually not anything I can find in this post with respect to actual citations and recent events at the hands of fanatics that isn't true. Thought some may find it deeply disturbing and distasteful, including peaceful adherents to the faith, the last paragraph is pretty much beyond factual dispute.

  5. Re:Sharia Courts? by 1u3hr · · Score: 5, Informative
    hasn't the British government been allowing Sharia courts to operate in Britain for some time?

    Only in civil cases if BOTH parties agree to accept its judgement:

    Sheikh Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siddiqi, whose Muslim Arbitration Tribunal runs the courts, said he had taken advantage of a clause in the Arbitration Act 1996. Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.

    Obviously this could not apply to normal criminal matters (theft, violent crime, etc). So no hands chopped off for theft, no adulterers stoned to death. It's just arbitration, where the arbitrator happens to be Muslim.

  6. re-write TFA by Jalfro · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It looks to me as if the Register has got this one wrong. The original criticisms were of negative tweaks against extremist sites by the government, as the quote they use in their article illustrates. This is about positive tweaking to promote genuine Islamic sites - and it's only, apparently part of a wider strategy of supporting peaceful interpretations of Islam, exactly what the original report recommended.

    1. Re:re-write TFA by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No matter how you look at it, it's the government promoting one religion over another and attempting to bury their speech to make it happen.

      It seems that you agree with the end goal which I sort of do too. But what happens when this action is taken to squash all other religions or negative but rightly placed speech against the government or to create a state religion or lead the people to believe a certain thing in order to pass an otherwise unpopular law that the people wouldn't stand for? I mean could you imagine doing a search on the interweb for Iraq and finding only the "Saddam tried to get yellow cake" or "Iraq has WMDs that terrorists want or can get" sites and articles and being led to believe that Iraq posed a great enough threat to the world that an immediate war was required to limit the potential damage because the government decided to optimize the search engines to get a certain message across and hide others?

      Why, if that happened, we might see a couple of otherwise well mannered countries start a war.

  7. Re:Sharia Courts nothing to worry about. by auric_dude · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not as bad as it sounds http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7233040.stm as you can see other religions can also pass judgements upon small non-criminal sectors of the law meanwhile all criminal matters are reserved for the UK's state courts.

  8. Re:Sharia Courts? by Patch86 · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's worth highlighting that that legislation allows pretty much any body to be used as arbitrators in civil cases, as long as both parties agree to be bound by its outcome.

    It "allows Sharia courts" only insofar as it allows you to appoint anyone to solve your dispute for you.

  9. Just as likely to succeed... by jmv · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...as pro-evolution content on the web is succeeding at making the creationists go away.

  10. Re:Islam, eh? by Spazztastic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Stop using monospace for your posts.

    --
    Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
  11. Re:Islam, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One of the biggest problems is that their prophet is held up to be the model of behaviour--the most perfect man, and is to be emulated in all things, (and there is no expiration date on this stuff). So, when an approximately 50 year old man (who happens to be the prophet of islam) "marries" a 6 year girl, and has sex with her when she is 9, those present day restrictions are pretty hard to enforce in an Islamic country because it is well documented that Mohammed did it. And if he did it, then it must be ok.

    Secondly, by saying "...there where times were similar things were common even in europe like 500-600 years ago", you are making weasel excuses. It does not excuse the behaviour, nor make it right. It does show an attempt to deflect accusations of wrong-doing.

    Pedophilia (even when practiced by that Islamic prophet Mohammed) is wrong.

  12. Re:Islam, eh? by WgT2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...you can also find similar things in the bible I guess..."

    Let me end your guessing: you will not find similar things, as in: pedophilia being committed by one of the authors of one of the books of the Bible.

  13. Is terrorism such a big issue? by master_p · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Many more people die from heart attacks and car accidents each year. Why the big fuss over terrorism?

  14. Re:Islam, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Christianity takes its name from Jesus, and is based on the idea that if Jesus is not god (trinity), then he is at least the son of god.

    Taking a look at the old books of christianity, we find that Jesus upholds the old testament. Matthew 5:17, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

    Armed with those words, the whole bible is open as a source for religious guidance, such as rape being punishable by a payment of 50 pieces of silver to the victims father and then taking your victim as your wife. Rape victims who are betrothed are to be stoned to death. If you see a female captive who you like, then take her. Selling your daughter as a sex slave is fine.

    That's just some of the parts dealing with rape. It's also O.K in the bible to kill gays, witches, adulterers, disobedient children, fortune tellers, non-believers, false prophets, anyone living in a town with non-christians, brides who are not virginal, blasphemers and anyone who works on the sabbath.

    Is it "weasel excuses" to say that christians don't generally behave like that anymore, or just double standards?

  15. Re:Islam, eh? by h4rm0ny · · Score: 5, Funny

    This Koran is about 800 years old, it cannot be adapted to todays social and cultural standards.

    A bit like monospace, then?

    --

    Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
  16. Re:Have they now lost their minds completly ? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 3, Interesting
    You make the assumption that these muftis, mullahs and imams, whose power and pay check comes from these immigrant muslim population will stand on the side lines when you develop your trust without betraying them. These leaders of the community fear their flock melting and merging into the larger British (or American) society. You assume they will allow this trust to develop and not nip in the bud.

    Please sit down, it might come as a shock to you. Muslims who get educated and understand their rights and don't want to be under the thumb of these muftis, quietly leave. They usually marry non moslems, typically Hindu Indians, give their children neutral non muslim names, and allow them to grow up to be regular subjects of the crown. Who is left behind under the thumb of these muftis and mullahs are those who don't understand their rights, who cant/wont resist oppression. That is why the ocean is salty. Water evaporates and leaves salt behind. That is why the muslim immigrant groups in the West have higher concentration of radicals.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  17. Re:Islam, eh? by IICV · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you actually read the bible, the koran or the torah, you will read a lot more about love and forgivness than you do about killing people you don't like.

    I'm not sure what books you're reading, but as far as I know only the New Testament has much about "love" and "forgiveness". God of the Old Testament and the Torah is full of salt and vinegar, damning and cursing and calling upon his people to rape cities. I will admit that I don't know much about the Koran.

    "Thou shalt not kill" isn't really open to interpretation. It is absolutely clear what it means.

    Unfortunately, the Bible wasn't written in English. The Hebrew words used there do not necessarily mean "kill"; there is very good evidence that they might mean "murder". This makes perfect sense in the context of the rest of the Bible - after all, God calls on people to kill for Him all the time in the Old Testament.

  18. Re:Islam, eh? by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah man, I live right next to one of the biggest mosques in my country and you can't move for all the beheadings, child rape and intolerence.

    Which is, of course, nonsense. The mosque runs a very popular cafe serving cheap curry, it's enormously popular with every demographic in the area (excluding those who don't like curry), local Muslims drink (non-alcoholic) drinks in the same pubs and clubs as the rest of us, work in the same places as the rest of us etc etc. Just because I find religion in general a little fuzzy and misguided doesn't mean the Muslims are any worse than your average Sunday churchgoer or crystal-waving new-ager.

    Of course there are extremist elements all over the world, just like some evangelicals in the US marrying multiple teenage girls, or Jehova's Witnesses who will allow a child to die from a curable operation. Pick your religion, somebody does something weird and usually harmful, but it's also a minority.

    The point of the original idea is that the extremists, usually by definition, shout the loudest even though they're a minority. This aims to redress the balance a little. Us atheists could take a well-thought-out leaf from that book.

    --
    Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
  19. Re:Islam, eh? by SalaSSin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Islam is the filthiest and most savage of the bunch

    You have /got/ to be kidding, right?

    At this moment they *might* be savage, but the lovely christians killed off other peoples (yes, peoples) by the thousands, and some are still doing so today, under the banner of religion.
    The Hindu's despise a large chunk of their own people and use them as serfs for the sake of their religion.
    The "orthodox" jews in Israel make it a sport to starve out an entire people because their religion tells them it's their chunk of land.
    The animist people who listen to shamans in black Africa are hunting down and chopping apart albino blacks because they are thought to have magical properties.

    In conclusion, religion is just plain and simple evil disguised in a robe with a funny hat (why do they all need funny hats to make their statement??)

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law
  20. Re:Islam, eh? by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Um, I don't think you understand Christianity in the least. By "fulfilling the law" basically Jesus was claiming that he was the messiah that was referenced heavily in the law (which refers to the old testament).

    For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. Romans 6:14

    Shows that Christians are not bound by the Old Testament laws because Jesus fulfilled them. There are several references to where Jesus goes opposes society's norm such as Mark 2:23-28 where Jesus plucked grain on the Sabbath. And another instance where he saved a woman from stoning because of adultery*

    Jesus can easily be taken as a good role model, even if you do not believe he is God. Muhammad on the other hand can not. Find me one instance in Jesus' life that would be morally wrong today. And you can find several in the life of Muhammad (pedophilia, etc). It would be hard to argue that Muhammad was a perfect role model for a good life. *This instance was not documented in some of the earliest manuscripts and is a point of debate for theologians to this day

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.