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UK To Train Pro-West Islamic Groups To Game Google

Hugh Pickens writes "The British government's Office of Security and Counter-Terrorism (OSCT), a 200-strong Home Office unit created 18 months ago, has said in meetings it wants to 'flood the internet' with 'positive' interpretations of Islam and plans to train government-approved groups in search engine optimization techniques, which it is hoped will boost their profile online and battle radicalization. A Home Office spokesman confirmed search engine optimization training is part of the government's anti-radicalization strategy. 'In order to support mainstream voices, we work with local partners to help develop their communication, representational and leadership skills. This support could include media training, which can help make their voices heard more widely, and support the development of skills which allow communities to be more effective in debate.' However the effectiveness of search engine optimization in reducing traffic to extremist websites has been dismissed by academics. A report produced by the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation (ICSR) said young Muslims were much more likely to be directed to extremist material online by web forums and offline associates than by Google or other search engines. 'Tweaking the results for supposedly extremist terms would be largely ineffectual, not least because it is unlikely that any but the most callow wannabe terrorist would use a mainstream search engine to find banned material.'"

64 of 469 comments (clear)

  1. Islam, eh? by Fanboy+Fantasies · · Score: 2, Informative

    Islam is the Middle East's response to the Mormon religion/cult. Islam was created by the Arab "prophet" Muhammad, yet another guy who heard voices in his head. These voices told him that his religion was a continuation of Judaism and Christianity and that those who followed these outdated religions should be converted or killed. Since he forgot about Zoroastrianism, he apparently thought that his religion was the third and final in the monotheistic trilogy. And being the third, it is inevitably the most shitty of the three (think Spiderman 3 or The Matrix Revolutions, not The Godfather, Part III).

    However, Islam may well be an honest continuation of God's word -- that is, if God is a giant asshat. Whether by suicide bomb or an heroic murder spree, through making threatening phone calls or through biological, chemical, and/or nuclear terrorism, Islam is well-situated to guide humanity to certain death.

    Those who follow Islam are termed Muslims, which probably makes sense in some non-English language. Muslims follow a magical book called The Koran, which is a slightly less lengthy version of the Holy Bible. The only difference is that it contains a somewhat more descriptive account of the Muslims' annihilation of those infidels who dared to practice peaceful religions and somewhat more child rape, primarily on the part of known pedophile Muhammad:
    Muhammad married a 6-year-old girl and had sex with her when she was nine.

    Seriously.

    It's in the fucking Koran.

    1. Re:Islam, eh? by palegray.net · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For once I'm going to have to encourage the mods to actually read an incendiary post (re: parent) in its entirety and do some fact-checking before modding the poster down. There's actually not anything I can find in this post with respect to actual citations and recent events at the hands of fanatics that isn't true. Thought some may find it deeply disturbing and distasteful, including peaceful adherents to the faith, the last paragraph is pretty much beyond factual dispute.

    2. Re:Islam, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Really?

      >Islam is the Middle East's response to the Mormon religion/cult.

      False. Islam came first.

      And the rest of the statements go downhill from there. Considering that was the first line and proven false, I'd say yes, flamebait or troll. Anyone who wanted to actually create a thought-provoking post on it without using falsehood or inflammatory speech could do so with just a few seconds of logical though applied to the situation.

      So, mod down, try again.

    3. Re:Islam, eh? by Spazztastic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Stop using monospace for your posts.

      --
      Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
    4. Re:Islam, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One of the biggest problems is that their prophet is held up to be the model of behaviour--the most perfect man, and is to be emulated in all things, (and there is no expiration date on this stuff). So, when an approximately 50 year old man (who happens to be the prophet of islam) "marries" a 6 year girl, and has sex with her when she is 9, those present day restrictions are pretty hard to enforce in an Islamic country because it is well documented that Mohammed did it. And if he did it, then it must be ok.

      Secondly, by saying "...there where times were similar things were common even in europe like 500-600 years ago", you are making weasel excuses. It does not excuse the behaviour, nor make it right. It does show an attempt to deflect accusations of wrong-doing.

      Pedophilia (even when practiced by that Islamic prophet Mohammed) is wrong.

    5. Re:Islam, eh? by WgT2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...you can also find similar things in the bible I guess..."

      Let me end your guessing: you will not find similar things, as in: pedophilia being committed by one of the authors of one of the books of the Bible.

    6. Re:Islam, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Christianity takes its name from Jesus, and is based on the idea that if Jesus is not god (trinity), then he is at least the son of god.

      Taking a look at the old books of christianity, we find that Jesus upholds the old testament. Matthew 5:17, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

      Armed with those words, the whole bible is open as a source for religious guidance, such as rape being punishable by a payment of 50 pieces of silver to the victims father and then taking your victim as your wife. Rape victims who are betrothed are to be stoned to death. If you see a female captive who you like, then take her. Selling your daughter as a sex slave is fine.

      That's just some of the parts dealing with rape. It's also O.K in the bible to kill gays, witches, adulterers, disobedient children, fortune tellers, non-believers, false prophets, anyone living in a town with non-christians, brides who are not virginal, blasphemers and anyone who works on the sabbath.

      Is it "weasel excuses" to say that christians don't generally behave like that anymore, or just double standards?

    7. Re:Islam, eh? by h4rm0ny · · Score: 5, Funny

      This Koran is about 800 years old, it cannot be adapted to todays social and cultural standards.

      A bit like monospace, then?

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    8. Re:Islam, eh? by EvilToiletPaper · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's mostly the same, in some accounts even less ghastly than the old testament (human sacrifice, child abuse etc. etc.)

      The main problem with Islam comes from the fact that it has failed miserably to adapt to the twenty first century, where all other countries are moving towards increased secularism and freedom of choice, Islamic countries are still stuck in a medieval religious model circa 1200 a.d.

    9. Re:Islam, eh? by Nazlfrag · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, if we're going by chemical, biological and nuclear weapons use the Christian west is far, far more bloodthirsty than the most fanatical Muslim has ever been.

    10. Re:Islam, eh? by Cyberax · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, sure.

      The whole Bible can be summarized as: "You are worthless bitch. Endlessly pray for forgiveness, you slave". The same for Koran (it's absolutely explicit there) and a bit less for Torah.

      This whole "religions of peace" is oxymoron like "slavery for freedom".

    11. Re:Islam, eh? by fireweaver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All three abrahamic religions are fucked up. Mo just took the most perverted aspects of judaism and christianity, added his own psychopathy, and voila! - islam was born.

      Religion must die and WE have to kill it.

    12. Re:Islam, eh? by IICV · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you actually read the bible, the koran or the torah, you will read a lot more about love and forgivness than you do about killing people you don't like.

      I'm not sure what books you're reading, but as far as I know only the New Testament has much about "love" and "forgiveness". God of the Old Testament and the Torah is full of salt and vinegar, damning and cursing and calling upon his people to rape cities. I will admit that I don't know much about the Koran.

      "Thou shalt not kill" isn't really open to interpretation. It is absolutely clear what it means.

      Unfortunately, the Bible wasn't written in English. The Hebrew words used there do not necessarily mean "kill"; there is very good evidence that they might mean "murder". This makes perfect sense in the context of the rest of the Bible - after all, God calls on people to kill for Him all the time in the Old Testament.

    13. Re:Islam, eh? by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah man, I live right next to one of the biggest mosques in my country and you can't move for all the beheadings, child rape and intolerence.

      Which is, of course, nonsense. The mosque runs a very popular cafe serving cheap curry, it's enormously popular with every demographic in the area (excluding those who don't like curry), local Muslims drink (non-alcoholic) drinks in the same pubs and clubs as the rest of us, work in the same places as the rest of us etc etc. Just because I find religion in general a little fuzzy and misguided doesn't mean the Muslims are any worse than your average Sunday churchgoer or crystal-waving new-ager.

      Of course there are extremist elements all over the world, just like some evangelicals in the US marrying multiple teenage girls, or Jehova's Witnesses who will allow a child to die from a curable operation. Pick your religion, somebody does something weird and usually harmful, but it's also a minority.

      The point of the original idea is that the extremists, usually by definition, shout the loudest even though they're a minority. This aims to redress the balance a little. Us atheists could take a well-thought-out leaf from that book.

      --
      Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
    14. Re:Islam, eh? by SalaSSin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Islam is the filthiest and most savage of the bunch

      You have /got/ to be kidding, right?

      At this moment they *might* be savage, but the lovely christians killed off other peoples (yes, peoples) by the thousands, and some are still doing so today, under the banner of religion.
      The Hindu's despise a large chunk of their own people and use them as serfs for the sake of their religion.
      The "orthodox" jews in Israel make it a sport to starve out an entire people because their religion tells them it's their chunk of land.
      The animist people who listen to shamans in black Africa are hunting down and chopping apart albino blacks because they are thought to have magical properties.

      In conclusion, religion is just plain and simple evil disguised in a robe with a funny hat (why do they all need funny hats to make their statement??)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law
    15. Re:Islam, eh? by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Have a bit more damned respect. So far all you've done is declare Muslims infidels that we other people need to annihilate. How about you actually meet some Muslims (the construction makes perfect sense in Arabic or any other Semitic language, by the way*) and talk to them about their religion before you judge the whole thing!

      * Seriously, when you're using linguistics as a reason not to like someone, you've jumped into irrational hate. Stop it.

    16. Re:Islam, eh? by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, I'll note that the Talmud prohibited sexual intercourse with its child brides. You had to wait until they hit 12, the religious Jewish age of majority.

    17. Re:Islam, eh? by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Um, I don't think you understand Christianity in the least. By "fulfilling the law" basically Jesus was claiming that he was the messiah that was referenced heavily in the law (which refers to the old testament).

      For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. Romans 6:14

      Shows that Christians are not bound by the Old Testament laws because Jesus fulfilled them. There are several references to where Jesus goes opposes society's norm such as Mark 2:23-28 where Jesus plucked grain on the Sabbath. And another instance where he saved a woman from stoning because of adultery*

      Jesus can easily be taken as a good role model, even if you do not believe he is God. Muhammad on the other hand can not. Find me one instance in Jesus' life that would be morally wrong today. And you can find several in the life of Muhammad (pedophilia, etc). It would be hard to argue that Muhammad was a perfect role model for a good life. *This instance was not documented in some of the earliest manuscripts and is a point of debate for theologians to this day

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    18. Re:Islam, eh? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Child brides were very common, yes, but not the actual sex part! DUH!

      In most societies of the time, puberty was regarded as the cut-off point, rather than a fixed age (largely because innumeracy was rife and it was not uncommon for poor people not to know their own age). 9 is quite young, but certainly not without precedent for a girl to enter puberty, although it is very unusual for a girl to survive childbirth if she conceives that young.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    19. Re:Islam, eh? by maestroh · · Score: 2, Informative
      It sounds like you're one of the people the British government is targeting. Here's what you say:

      These voices told him that his religion was a continuation of Judaism and Christianity and that those who followed these outdated religions should be converted or killed.

      Yet here's a verse from the Koran that states God's view of Christains and Jews. It's verse 62 of the second chapter:

      Surely, those who believe, and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians, whoever have faith with true hearts in Allah and in the Last-day and do good deeds, their reward is with their Lord, and there shall he no fear for them nor any grief.

      The verse is pretty straight forward, but I'll sum up what it says. If you believe in God and try to do good deeds, you'll go to Heaven. It's pretty simple. The verse is from Surat Al-Baqara (one of the best chapters of the Koran) which outlines many concepts in Islam. http://www.ahadees.com/english-surah-2.html

      On a side note, I find it interesting that he community on Slashdot regard intelligence and knowledge in high regard, but ancient books with ancient knowledge are dismissed as some sort of fantasy. These books are the record of our ancestors. They passed down knowledge to us so that we as their children could improve ourselves. They learned these lessons through trial and error, yet we still make the same errors today because we don't read our own history.

    20. Re:Islam, eh? by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They may be late comers, but compared to them every religious mass murderer was an amateur.

      Then the obvious deduction is that they had good teachers ...

      And no, in terms of body count, even Stalin has nothing on christianity.

    21. Re:Islam, eh? by WgT2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He could have killed Adam and Eve and taken a Mulligan, you know. But to the point, God did that in Egypt.

      Egypt was God's 'Mulligan'? THE definer of good and evil needs... a 'Mulligan'?

  2. Imagine by Alarindris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dear Religion,

    You are a pain in the ass. Please go away soon.

    Imagine there's no countries.
    It isn't hard to do.
    Nothing to kill or die for,
    And no religion too.
    Imagine all the people,
    Living life in peace.

    Love,
    Sane People

    1. Re:Imagine by MrMr · · Score: 3, Funny

      This has got to be one of the worst cases of public sector idiocy I've ever seen
      Really?. The UK has an official state religion; Top that.

    2. Re:Imagine by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Their biggest mistake is failing to understand the militant Islamic movement. It has far less to do with religion and far more to do with male chauvinist pigs, the misogynists. Their underlying hatred of the west has far more to do with the equality of women than it does with prophets and gods.

      No amount of propaganda or reason will change their attitudes, there is no middle ground by which they can be approached. They see the independence of women on western media and they feel threatened and they know that their abusive lifestyles are at risk, life styles based upon dominance and abuse and that is the way they react to that threat, with arrogance and violence.

      They simply use the masquerade of religious belief to hide behind, a mask to hide the violent lusts that drive actions. They have very reason to feel threatened, their immoral and unethical lifestyles are coming to an end and those that refuse to change will either spend the rest of their lives in prison or perish in their violent struggle.

      So the government needs to basically get down and dirty, and break that association and expose the underlying motivation of destructive militant religious movements (to be fair here, the same can be said for fundamentalist Christianity as for Islam).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    3. Re:Imagine by jmv · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've been told that in some places in the US, the song gets edited to say "And *one* religion too". Kind of changes the intent a bit, doesn't it.

    4. Re:Imagine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm going to invoke Godwin's Law in this comment, but I think it's worth mentioning:

      In the 20th century, both Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany imagined - and tried to create - societies where there was no religion. Consider the number of people who suffered and died under both regimes. I'm not sure where the view originated that the world's problems are caused by people of a religious belief, but there are two very striking counter-examples.

      Some people have used religion as a reason for committing atrocities. True. Others have used different philosophies and ideologies. Also true.

      People have done great good because of their religious convictions (e.g., Wilberforce and the anti-slavery movement, even today, many Christians are involved in projects like "Stop the Traffik" (http://www.stopthetraffik.org/)) because social justice is a part of their belief. People with no religious belief also do great charitable works.

      The world's a lot more complex than "Imagine" suggests.

    5. Re:Imagine by digitig · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Dear Religion, You are a pain in the ass. Please go away soon.

      Although religious nutjobs are an easy target, please try to remember that the problem is with the "nutjob", not the "religious", and the atheists can field a fair number of nutjobs too. Militant atheist Sam Harris, according to "The End of Faith" apparently wants to see humanity exterminated, religious and atheist alike, rather than allow religion to continue to exist, which comes over as "nutjob" to me. And "The End of Faith" comes with an endorsement from Richard Dawkins (although I don't know whether Dawkins endorses that particular bit). Basically, if somebody wants to kill me because my beliefs differ from theirs, or as collateral damage getting to somebody whose beliefs differ from theirs, I don't care whether they're religious or atheist, I'm opposed to them.

      So how about: "Dear persecution in the name of ideology, you are a pain in the ass. Please go away soon."

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    6. Re:Imagine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In the 20th century, both Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany imagined - and tried to create - societies where there was no religion.

      Wrong. Nazi Germany did not. The storm troopers' belt buckles used to say, "Gott mit Uns."

      That's propaganda put about by the believers to try to persuade people that atheism leads to totalitarian fascism.

    7. Re:Imagine by stdarg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Their biggest mistake is failing to understand the militant Islamic movement. It has far less to do with religion and far more to do with male chauvinist pigs, the misogynists. Their underlying hatred of the west has far more to do with the equality of women than it does with prophets and gods.

      You think it's genetic or something? That no matter how these people were raised, no matter what belief system they have, they would still be chauvinists?

      It's a minor distinction because I agree with you that Islam and chauvinism are intertwined. I just think it's pretty clear that the overarching belief system into which you are born has a big impact on your attitude towards women, not the other way around.

      So the government needs to basically get down and dirty, and break that association and expose the underlying motivation of destructive militant religious movements (to be fair here, the same can be said for fundamentalist Christianity as for Islam).

      There are LOTS of fundamentalist Christians in the US and how much terrorism are they responsible for? Compare that to the number of fundamentalist Muslims also in the US who were arrested for terrorism plots. It's nice and PC to add "oh and also Christianity" but it's not very realistic.

    8. Re:Imagine by dintech · · Score: 2, Informative

      Either your geography is bad or you didn't even look at that map. Notice it's just England, not the whole UK that has a state religion. Scotland, Wales and Northern Island, which are also constituent parts of the UK, don't have a state religion. Please stop calling the UK England and vice versa. They're NOT the same thing.

    9. Re:Imagine by david.given · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The best description I've seen of how it all actually works is here:

      The Great British Venn Diagram

      Personally, I quite like the fact that I live in a country that needs a four-colour diagram to adequately describe. It neatly fits in with my concept of how the world actually works.

    10. Re:Imagine by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ~10 Muslims were arrested for terrorist plots in the US. In the same time frame hundreds of doctors have been threatened, and some have been murdered, for providing women with abortions. Let's not forget the murder of Matthew Sheppard. There are 2 abortion providers in Mississippi, all the others have been forced out of Mississippi by harassment. In Mississippi many pharmacies do not carry oral contraceptives. Doctors who prescribe the morning after pill frequently find their patients cannot find the drug. The Christians in the United States do not resort to terrorism because they have already won.

      --
      Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
    11. Re:Imagine by sy5t3m · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Atheism can either be the belief that there is no god, or a lack of belief in the existence of a god. Even in the first case, it's no more a religion than the assertion that santa, the tooth fairy, humpty dumpty or the invisible pink unicorn don't exist.

      Asserting that santa exists and talks to you in your head would be considered eccentric at best, grounds for involuntary commitment at worst. It's considered sane and normal (and not at all religious) to hold that santa does not exist. Somehow it's entirely different when the same concept is applied to a 2000 year old jewish zombie who is his own father though.

    12. Re:Imagine by digitig · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To be honest, I don't care whether people live in their own fantasy worlds or not, as long as they leave me alone and in particular don't try to kill me.

      That's a complete fallacy. In reality, we all live in the same world. These people are trying to make the world we all live in into their fantasy world -- this wouldn't be so bad if it weren't impossible because it's based on their ridiculous mythology.

      My wife is a psychiatric nurse. She deals with lots of people who live in fantasy worlds but aren't trying to kill anybody. There are lots more that don't come within the remit of psychiatric services who live in fantasy worlds but aren't trying to kill anybody. On the other hand, there are ultra-rationalists who do want to kill me or don't care whether I die as collateral in their political and ideological conflicts. I say again, and it's not a fallacy: the issue isn't whether or not they're living in a fantasy world, it's whether they're trying to kill people.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
  3. How to get free government PR for your religion by XavierItzmann · · Score: 5, Insightful
    So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of Buddhism?

    After all, don't we want young Buddhists to be much less likely to be directed to extremist material online?

    Oh, sorry, forgot the UK government only sponsors your religion when you are violent. If you are peaceful, you are on your own. Do your own damn PR!

    "it wants to 'flood the internet' with 'positive' interpretations of Islam and plans to train government-approved groups in search engine optimization techniques"

    --
    The next pasture is always greener
    1. Re:How to get free government PR for your religion by Thanshin · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dear UK government.

      As has been proved over and over, we gamers are violent.

      Our Google-fu is mighty, but we don't have apropiate sites of reunion. The sensible action would be to pay for the construction of gaming churches where gamers can go to get involved in a friendly community and thus avoid further killing sprees.

      Yours dearly, F4T4L M4SS4KRE.

    2. Re:How to get free government PR for your religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of NuLabour.
      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of ID cards
      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of more CCTV cameras
      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of bonuses for rich crooks running banks
      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of more taxes to improve things (their bank accounts)
      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of 3 entire towns wiped out to build Heathrow's 3rd runway
      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of Phorm style monitoring of all communications
      So, when will a 200-strong unit UK government office flood the internet with 'positive' interpretations of Big Brother, for their gain and their rich friends gain, at our expense.
      etc... etc.. etc...

      The people in power are put there by us and work for us. They are not there to manipulate us, yet that is what they are doing relentlessly. Yet still, so many people fail to see the danger in not defending against these corrupt people in power gaining ever more power over us all. The people in power are building their own Plutocracy (ruled by the rich), which since the finacial collapse, is looking ever more like a Kleptocracy (ruled by thieves). These power seekers in power don't want a democracy, they want to be the people in power to dictate to us all for their own gain at our expense, literally.

  4. Once again I apologise by Kupfernigk · · Score: 3, Informative

    For the British Government. I find myself again having to explain to non-UK readers that we do not elect the Prime Minister, and owing to our elective dictatorship system, the present Prime Minister has never, in fact, been voted for by anybody outside the Scottish province of Fife. The Home Office is run by someone, Jacqui Smith, who makes Condoleeza Rice look like the greatest liberal brain on the planet (and charges the taxpayer $3000 a month for her sleeping in her sister's spare bedroom). Unfortunately, just like you with GWB, we can do nothing about it until next year. Until late 2010 then, be ready for a stream of "how stupid can the British Government get?" stories.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Once again I apologise by jrothwell97 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All the more reason to vote Lib Dem at the next election, then.

      --
      Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
    2. Re:Once again I apologise by mrphoton · · Score: 2, Informative

      This relay irritates me. Whenever somebody criticises Gordon and his dreadful Stalinist government, somebody always pipes up an says well the conservatives are no different and there is nothing we can do. Well for a start if you vote Conservative we will not get the dreadful ID cards: http://www.conservatives.com/Campaigns/ID_Cards_Labours_Bad_IDea.aspx

    3. Re:Once again I apologise by abigsmurf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think you grasp what a dictator is, nor how our electoral system works.

      Our country is run by the party, not by the prime minister. The Prime Minister is just the appointed representative/head of the party. Don't like the decisions a part makes? Don't vote for them. If the party doesn't like what the prime Minister does, they do a vote of no confidence or vote against his law changes. The PM only has as much power as the party allows.

    4. Re:Once again I apologise by blackest_k · · Score: 3, Informative

      I can't see how it will stop in 2010 regardless of who is in power, the only difference will be which asshat is in power. Obviously the political parties will offer us all something that we like the sound of and try to bury the unpopular policies. So a new government comes in or gets restored they then make some show of implementing or delaying implementing the popular policies that got them to power and at the same time doing things we distinctly dislike.

      While you can argue that perhaps that it seems reasonable for a general election to be called on change of prime minister, its not backed up in practice

      http://tutor2u.net/blog/index.php/politics/comments/unelected-prime-ministers-the-political-and-constitutional-importance/

      "'When a party in government replaces its leader, there is no need for the new prime minister to call an early general election. Macmillan waited 2¾ years, and Callaghan three years until he was forced to hold one by a Commons vote of no confidence. Douglas Home waited a year, and John Major 15 months, but they were near the five-year limit before an election has to be called. Eden called an election almost immediately after taking office, but the parliament was more than 3½ years old. After succeeding the dying Bonar Law in May 1923, Baldwin went to the polls within six months on the issue of tariff reform, only a year into the Parliament, but lost - an unhappy precedent.' "

      So its a bit of a mixed bag theres been a few unelected prime ministers from both sides. John Major was the last Conservative Prime minister to do so.
      If Gordon Brown wasn't Prime Minister, it would probably still be Tony Blair but definitely not David Cameron till at least 2010.

       

    5. Re:Once again I apologise by Wymsey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ok, so the use of the word 'dictator' is emotive and not quite appropriate in England - yet. But to say that we are run by the (Labour) party is just not true. On the whole the country is, if at all, run from Number Ten impeded or encouraged by the civil service. The elected MPs count for very little and the party count for naught - except at election time.

    6. Re:Once again I apologise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Except that's not quite how it works in practice.

      In practice when people disagree with the party and don't keep it a secret they are removed. The cabinet and other important positions are picked by the PM and are filled with Loyalists.

      I know its a crazy idea to have appropriately skilled, educated and experienced ministers in positions as opposed to the PM's best mates and biggest yes men - but if the party was really in charge, wouldn't it be dictating the positions? Oh wait, the party is in charge, and the PM is in charge of the party, ergo...

  5. Nice idea, but... by Omegamogo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Problem is, the mainstream Muslims aren't the ones that need to be targeted, but the high-risk volatile ones. The rest of us don't feel anything about the west more than either some admiration on the liberal-side of the political spectrum, or some casual antipathy on the religious/conservative side of politics.

    I live in Saudi Arabia. Which doesn't seem to have much of a global image as being progressive these days, and I can still tell you that most grad students these days want to study either in Canada or the US, followed by the UK and Australia (English in highschool is mandatory...hence the destinations of choice being all English-speaking countries).

    1. Re:Nice idea, but... by sumdumass · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They aren't really targeting the mainstream Muslims. The intent of this is to sweep the radicals under the rug or put them in the back or the room so noone can look at them.

      By flooding the search engines to bring up search results only pointing to the mainstream Muslim sites, they are attempting to stop little Johny from getting bored, finding an extremist site, becoming brainwashed, strapping a bomb to his balls in some ignorant belief of 72 virgins as a reward when he is too young to realize they will be permanent virgins so the effect would be more like living with 72 twelve year old sisters, and blowing himself and others up.

      They are looking for the "out of site, out of mind" approach. If they can't find it, they won't become it. But hey, Ignoring the problem has worked so well for so long, what could go wrong? And this plan has the added benefit of the public missing out on what is happening and not demanding the government provide as much protection from the fundamentalist extremist bent on their destruction. This way the government won't have to spend so much Time, money and effort on defending the people and foiling the extremist plots before they can harm innocent civilians that the government is charged with the protection of. More cameras and license plate sensors can be installed to watch the public and track their movements and make sure they pay the taxes.

    2. Re:Nice idea, but... by Omegamogo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, the virgins thing is a bit of a misconception of sorts. It's based on a very unreliable quotation of Muhammad (Hadith) passed around via a chain of narrators as long as your arm before it was written down.

      Back on topic, that DOES appear to be the goal of this venture I guess, in a social equivalent of the Security By Obscurity model, but it's kind of futile. Extremist sites may change the religious/political orientation of someone impressionable, but the actual "terrorist trigger" is usually a meme passed on IRL by friends or family. It's much harder to pass online, methinks.

      Hell, over here a localized War On Terror has been going on since 2003 after a rather large terrorist attack in Riyadh, and what did the government do? go for the watering holes. Summer camps, publications, clamped down on hardline clerics, and yes, a few websites. But they weren't the first point of connection.

    3. Re:Nice idea, but... by Omegamogo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Homophobic much?

      And no, in fact, it doesn't. At least not for martyrs. Even the shaky Hadith I spoke of earlier specifically promised that those who will have 72 Houri in heaven are those who got the LEAST reward in the afterlife. In other words, those who have barely stopped themselves from being utter assholes in THIS life.

      The Houri? Often simplistically translated simply as virgins, usually, but it doesn't necessarily mean that. As far as anyone can gather, it refers to otherworldly creatures altogether, ones described as having ethereal beauty and purity. Possibly the form that humans are said to be reborn as. "Purity" possibly being the point of mistranslation, since in archaic contexts it's occasionally used interchangeably with virginity.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri

  6. Re:Sharia Courts? by 1u3hr · · Score: 5, Informative
    hasn't the British government been allowing Sharia courts to operate in Britain for some time?

    Only in civil cases if BOTH parties agree to accept its judgement:

    Sheikh Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siddiqi, whose Muslim Arbitration Tribunal runs the courts, said he had taken advantage of a clause in the Arbitration Act 1996. Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.

    Obviously this could not apply to normal criminal matters (theft, violent crime, etc). So no hands chopped off for theft, no adulterers stoned to death. It's just arbitration, where the arbitrator happens to be Muslim.

  7. re-write TFA by Jalfro · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It looks to me as if the Register has got this one wrong. The original criticisms were of negative tweaks against extremist sites by the government, as the quote they use in their article illustrates. This is about positive tweaking to promote genuine Islamic sites - and it's only, apparently part of a wider strategy of supporting peaceful interpretations of Islam, exactly what the original report recommended.

    1. Re:re-write TFA by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No matter how you look at it, it's the government promoting one religion over another and attempting to bury their speech to make it happen.

      It seems that you agree with the end goal which I sort of do too. But what happens when this action is taken to squash all other religions or negative but rightly placed speech against the government or to create a state religion or lead the people to believe a certain thing in order to pass an otherwise unpopular law that the people wouldn't stand for? I mean could you imagine doing a search on the interweb for Iraq and finding only the "Saddam tried to get yellow cake" or "Iraq has WMDs that terrorists want or can get" sites and articles and being led to believe that Iraq posed a great enough threat to the world that an immediate war was required to limit the potential damage because the government decided to optimize the search engines to get a certain message across and hide others?

      Why, if that happened, we might see a couple of otherwise well mannered countries start a war.

  8. Re:Sharia Courts nothing to worry about. by auric_dude · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not as bad as it sounds http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7233040.stm as you can see other religions can also pass judgements upon small non-criminal sectors of the law meanwhile all criminal matters are reserved for the UK's state courts.

  9. Have they now lost their minds completly ? by burni · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This would be a hillarious joke for april fools day, but if they want to counter radical muslims this way won't work.

    Muslims mostly tend to build local social groups mostly in favour of their origin-region(not country), these social groups are mostly not
    radical but, from our point of view their views onto the world differ hughly from ours(*).

    But in such communities radical thoughts and comments will occur as a common understanding of that the western society tries to supress the islam.

    And here is the catch, these "supported" people and groups will find themselves outcast as they are seen as a part of a western supression strategy.
    They will be recognized as traitors, and these former actions like "google-optimisation" will be seen as an evidence and so strengthen the common understanding of a western conspiracy.

    Thus can also push moderate muslims into a position, where their word becomes less weight than it had.

    Diplomacy will not convert muslims into liberal nude loving naturists, nor will war. We(wester people) should realize one thing
    you can only gain someones trust when you not try to betray him, and with trust you can start a discussion about certain things,
    like stoning of cheaters and heretics, as a start.

    The human rights are a philosophical construct with the intention to make lives better for everyone, I think we should remember
    those humanist philosophers, which brought us to a state of self-awareness, and start thinking about our selves and our actions.

    Diplomacy does not work from top to down, like a hierachie it works on trust.

    (*) This is my point of view as an observer.

    1. Re:Have they now lost their minds completly ? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 3, Interesting
      You make the assumption that these muftis, mullahs and imams, whose power and pay check comes from these immigrant muslim population will stand on the side lines when you develop your trust without betraying them. These leaders of the community fear their flock melting and merging into the larger British (or American) society. You assume they will allow this trust to develop and not nip in the bud.

      Please sit down, it might come as a shock to you. Muslims who get educated and understand their rights and don't want to be under the thumb of these muftis, quietly leave. They usually marry non moslems, typically Hindu Indians, give their children neutral non muslim names, and allow them to grow up to be regular subjects of the crown. Who is left behind under the thumb of these muftis and mullahs are those who don't understand their rights, who cant/wont resist oppression. That is why the ocean is salty. Water evaporates and leaves salt behind. That is why the muslim immigrant groups in the West have higher concentration of radicals.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  10. Re:Sharia Courts? by Patch86 · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's worth highlighting that that legislation allows pretty much any body to be used as arbitrators in civil cases, as long as both parties agree to be bound by its outcome.

    It "allows Sharia courts" only insofar as it allows you to appoint anyone to solve your dispute for you.

  11. Re:...Manipulating Google? by jrothwell97 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Google UK likes to please governments.

    --
    Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
  12. Just as likely to succeed... by jmv · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...as pro-evolution content on the web is succeeding at making the creationists go away.

  13. Re:Good by sumdumass · · Score: 2, Insightful

    even scarier is we the West helped them so that they would take on the Soviets. What goes around comes around ....

    Not really. Islamic Terrorism has been around for quite a while and while we did help with the resistance against the Soviet Union, that help was directed to people acting towards an invading army not a civilian population.

    Terrorism sort of requires an act of terror. While there probably isn't and hard set definition that spans the globe, a military member serving in a country they recently invaded would be expecting the acts and it probably wouldn't be considered acts of terror.

    Now, I would admit that some fighting the good fight turned and became terrorist later in life, but considering our help at a different time the same as helping a terrorist is about as inane as claiming the University of Iowa trained and helped terrorist because some grad student learned enough about chemistry to construct a bomb and rocket fuel before going jihad in some terrorist group.

  14. Is terrorism such a big issue? by master_p · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Many more people die from heart attacks and car accidents each year. Why the big fuss over terrorism?

  15. Re:Sharia Courts? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2, Informative
    It "allows Sharia courts" only insofar as it allows you to appoint anyone to solve your dispute for you.

    Of course, all these poor near illeterate immigrant women brought up in a strict male dominant hierarchy will know their rights and refuse to "appoint" these mullahs, imams, muftis as their arbitrator and seek the full protection from the agents of the crown. Yup, these groups have a sterling reputation for standing up to peer pressure & social pressure, defy ostracization. Their fiercely independent streak is known throughout the world. Yeah, sure. It is just arbitration and the mufti is freely chosen by both parties.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  16. Re:Sharia Courts? by stdarg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Exactly! The noble-minded defenders of "mutual consent to arbitration" also ignore the gangs patrolling the ghettos where these immigrants live that enforce sharia themselves. What do you think happens to people who live there who DON'T agree to arbitration by a sharia court? They deal with the sharia gang.

  17. Re:Sharia Courts nothing to worry about. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Informative

    You are missing the point. The Arbitration Act only allows Sharia courts, Jewish courts, or some form of secular arbitration, to apply if both parties agree to it. If you are a non-muslim and you consent to have your case judged according to Sharia law then you get what you deserve for crass stupidity.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  18. Jesus as Role Model by superyooser · · Score: 2, Insightful

    By "fulfilling the law" basically Jesus was claiming that he was the messiah that was referenced heavily in the law (which refers to the old testament).

    You are right, but Jesus fulfilled Scripture in other ways too. I'm going to take a "rabbi trail" here... In Judaism, to "fulfill" something means to interpret it correctly. This is what Jesus did through the way He lived His life. He full-filled it not only by keeping the commands of the law, but by filling it full of its true meaning.

    Moreover, that He fulfilled the law does not mean that we, His followers , are to ignore the law's commandments, which are "holy, just, and good" (Romans 7:12).

    For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. Romans 6:14

    Shows that Christians are not bound by the Old Testament laws because Jesus fulfilled them.

    Look at what Paul is saying. It's not that keeping the law makes sin your master; rather, legalistic observance of G-d's commands without having understood and received His grace is what makes sin your master.

    It should be noted that the ancient Greek language did not have a word for "legalism." There was only this word (in Rom. 6:14, nomon), which is always simplistically rendered as "law" in English.

    Look at the context, using another version (CJB):

    14 For sin will not have authority over you; because you are not under legalism but under grace. 15 Therefore, what conclusion should we reach? "Let's go on sinning, because we're not under legalism but under grace"? Heaven forbid! 16 Don't you know that if you present yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, then, of the one whom you are obeying, you are slaves - whether of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to being made righteous? 17 By G-d's grace, you, who were once slaves to sin, obeyed from your heart the pattern of teaching to which you were exposed; 18 and after you had been set free from sin, you became enslaved to righteousness. 19 (I am using popular language because your human nature is so weak.) For just as you used to offer your various parts as slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led to more lawlessness; so now offer your various parts as slaves to righteousness, which leads to being made holy, set apart for G-d.

    Is Paul saying that lawlessness is bad, but keeping the law is also bad? Sounds like a lose/lose situation for humanity. But no; Paul professes, "we confirm/uphold/establish (KJV) the law" (Rom. 3:31) But only a keeping of the law that is grounded in a relationship of trusting faithfulness in G-d and His grace for us. Christians nearly always miss this distinction.

    There are several references to where Jesus goes opposes society's norm such as Mark 2:23-28 where Jesus plucked grain on the Sabbath.

    He did what was "unlawful" regarding the Sabbath only according to the Pharisaic rabbinical laws. He did not violate G-d's law concerning the Sabbath. He simply held to a less burdensome practice of keeping of Shabbat.

    And another instance where he saved a woman from stoning because of adultery*

    Here, Jesus was, in fact, going strictly by the Book (Deuteronomy 17):

    2 "If there is found among you, within any of your gates [in any city] that the L-RD your G-d gives you, a man or woman who does what the L-RD your G-d sees as wicked, ... 4 and it is told to you, or you hear about it; then you are to investigate the matter diligently. If it is true, if it is confirmed that such detestable things are being done in Isra'el; 5 then you are to bring the man or woman who has done this wicked thing t