Work Progresses On 10,000 Year Clock

KindMind writes "CNet has pictures of a planned 10,000 year clock to be built in eastern Nevada by the Long Now Foundation. From the article: 'Running under its own power, the clock is an experiment in art, science, and engineering. The six dials on the face of this machine will represent the year, century, horizons, sun position, lunar phase, and the stars of the night sky over a 10,000-year period. Likely to span multiple generations and evolutions in culture, the thinking and design put into the monument makes it a moving sculpture as beautiful as it is complex.' This was reviewed on Slashdot in 2005. Really cool pictures, including one of a mechanical 'binary computer' that converts the pendulum into positions on the dial."

Comments

ha ha ha

[grub]

This modern-day Stonehenge will be scavenged for parts and resources long before 10,000 years. Much like how the original Stonehenge was.

Re:ha ha ha

[evanbd]

That's why one of the design considerations is avoiding valuable materials. This is nontrivial -- materials with good corrosion and wear resistance tend to be pricey. Obviously the clock won't be made of anything as low value as stone, but it is a consideration.

Re:ha ha ha

[Hurricane78]

There is a great solution to this: Just make it totally deadly radioactive for the next 10,000 years. ^^
If it were me, who had to build it, I would do exactly that. I would make the only way to look at it, to use binoculars. With a large deadly zone around it. I would make it so radioactive, that it would glow in the night, for the first 1000 years or so. I would make it a legend. Something that is above religion. Above governments. Something that the two sides of the biggest war in those 10,000 years will value so much that they could never destroy it. And the radioactivity would keep more primitive thieves off of it.

Re:ha ha ha

[mangu]

And I'm not convinced at all that we have superior materials now than we did 2000 years ago for this purpose.

What about this mechanism? If it had been built of modern corrosion-resistant alloys it would still be working today.

Steel? Won't last. Stainless alloys? Corrosion still builds up over long time scales,

Iron meteorites are a natural stainless steel and last millions of years. Although iron meteorites are only about 6% of the total that fall on earth, about 90% of collected meteorites are iron, they are so much more durable than stone meteorites.

Re:ha ha ha

[mangu]

I'm not familiar with meteorite dating: do we have evidence for ones that fell millions of years ago?

Here's one that has been dated to a fall on earth 110 million years ago. It's corroded, not much of the original mass remains, it's true, but it's something like four orders of magnitude older than any known bronze artifact.

I mean, you realize that calling it stainless steel doesn't necessarily mean it is 100% corrosion-free, right?

You know, "stainless" is a name applied to thousands of different alloys. And there are so many different corrosive mixtures. Some perchlorates will eat through any metal. With a 1000 degrees centigrade air flow blowing on it any steel will rust. But there are many alloys that will sit quite happy in an autoclave without getting rust marks. Try Hastelloy B, for instance.

How about a non-powered clock?

[davidwr]

How about a non-powered clock that used the positions of the sun, moon, and stars to tell the time?

We already have a version? that works for about half a day in most parts of the world, and 24 hours during the summers near the poles.

Another option:
A clock that simply reads the remaining amount of radioactive material in a sample. Use the radiation to drive the device.

Re:How about a non-powered clock?

[BlueParrot]

Reading the amount of radioactivity in a sample to a precision of even 1 day in 3.6 million is nontrivial. Doing it with a device that will survive 3.6 million days while being exposed to said radiation is even more so.

Building a clock that lasts 3.6 million days is not a project for a single day, let alone the five minutes spent on a slashdot comment.

36-Chlorine has a half-life of 30 000 years, decaying into either stable Sulfur-36 or Argon-36. Since the ratio of decay events that result in Argon-36 is known the sample could be prepared as to let the Argon diffuse away, thus causing a predicable loss of mass of the sample. Part of the container could then be built as to allow noble gases to diffuse out, but not let anything else in. The problem is then reduced to that of constructing a mechanical balance of sufficient accuracy as to weigh the reduction in mass of the sample. Designing a balance with sufficient accuracy and longevity would no doubt be a challenging task, but at least there is no requirement for any rapidly moving parts, thus substantially reducing wear and tear.

Re:10,000 years

[Tx]

For the clock, or for the human race?

The End is Near

[travdaddy]

Just think, if this thing really works, then we've created another day where everyone will stockpile cans of food and hides in the cellar! "The Ancient Americans knew this clock would only need to be accurate for 3.65 million days!"

If you doubt that will happen, take a good look at the Mayan calendar.

Perpetual motion

[piripiri]

Running under its own power

Perpetual motion ?

Re:Errr

[whizzard]

As opposed to a non-binary computer?

Also, yes.

Re:10,000 years

[TheRedSeven]

Anyone else wonder if, just a mere two thousand years from now, some future country will discover this and wonder what it is?

Just look at the Antikythera Machine.

Re:Disclaimer: Not Related to End of Time

[Camann]

Do you really expect people to remember that for 9,000 years? By then, I expect the "Not" to have worn down or maybe the whole thing... When asked, people will first relate, "Oh, that said, 'Not the end of time'." which will be remembered as, "Something about the 'end of time'." passed on simply as "End of Time" and eventually will become the name of the clock: "End of Time Clock"

Re:12009

[Chris Burke]

Lol, yeah, I can even see that happening.

Plus, if I understand the device, then it's powered by a couple huge weights slowly falling down a screw. Whatever future society encounters it may not fully understand it, and based on the "Doomsday myth" might assume something is supposed to happen when the weights reach the bottom. There'll be a whole society of people who want to find out, and on that auspicious day they'll travel up to the mountain and have a big party and sit around speculating what'll happen. Will a secret passage open up containing the wisdom of the ancients? Will the whole thing collapse as if mimicking the destruction that will soon engulf the world? Then the moment finally comes, the bells sound one final time, the weights settle at the bottom of the machine... and it stops moving. That's it. They wait around for a while, but still nothing happens. They all leave, and one is heard to mutter "Whoever these Society of the Long Now people were, they're a bunch of jerks."

Re:10,000 years

[cyphercell]

Yes, ever wonder if Noah was a geneticist? How else are you going to fit all of those beasties on a boat?

Re:10,000 years

[GameMaster]

They should leave a message that says "reset after 10,000 years" repeated in all known written languages.

Re:10,000 years

[Teancum]

The Mayan calendar doesn't "run out" in 2012... it merely goes through the equivalent of what we have with the Y10k bug... when date recording will move on to another digit to count the number of years.

You just need another digit in the "long count" for the Mayan calendar to keep the system going for another couple of millennia.

I would have to assume (and based on how they use dates that the Long Now Foundation is aware of this) that this proposed clock is going to take the Y10k bug seriously and compensate for it.

Knowing human irony, this clock will likely last for 100,000 years and not just 10,000 years. And being a 100k year old antique, nobody will want to modify it to count out the extra days/years necessary when that event happens.

Ship's propellers

[Kupfernigk]

I have seen it suggested, forget where, that a new civilisation or visitors from space could tell, perhaps several millions years in the future, that we had once had a technical civilisation when they discovered the remains of (bronze) ship propellers, which would still be recognisable. (They may be the thickest bronze castings.) Stainless steel will be long gone, so probably will commercial grade nickel, though coinage metal may last.

Exegi monumentum aere perennius, wrote Horace, but with modern bronze alloys I wouldn't bank on it.

Re:10,000 years

[jmorris42]

> It has a note on the inside saying that it was last repaired in 1909.

And the last time that clock was reset to correct drift? That is another feature of this clock, it is supposed to be able to not only run for 10,000 years it is supposed to keep correct time for 10,000 without human intervention. That is an interesting goal.

Re:Leap Seconds

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus Christ, what is wrong with you? You think by just babbling randomly you might discover some phenomenon that hasn't been discovered by scientists making precise measurements using equipment you couldn't begin to understand? If you want to actually make a study of ancient calendars, the adjustments made to them, their drift over time, and then find out actual information about modern calendars and THEIR drift as determined by people who know more than you, THEN maybe you'll be able to post shit like this on slashdot.

Until then, recognize that you don't know anything and you're not remotely qualified to comment.