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Mexican Government To Document Cell Phone Use
Alyssey writes "The Mexican government wants to have a database to track every cellphone number in the country (in Spanish, Google translation) and whom it belongs to. They want to tie in the CURP (Unique Registration Population Code in Spanish, like the Social Security Number in the US) with cellphone numbers. If Mexicans don't send in their number and CURP via SMS before April 10, 2010, their cellphone number will be blocked. The new law was published back in February and is going into effect now."
Respond via SMS?
Sounds Phishy
I don't have any information on prepaid phone providers in Mexico; if they're as prevalent as they are here in the States, how will this affect those users? Can you just register the phone as belonging to Inigo Montoya and be done with it?
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
I assume this doesn't apply to PAYG phones bought in the US? What a way to not affect criminals in the least.
With an already corrupt government and police force this benefits the people how..?
here where I live. I just pay them a hundred pesos to buy a chip for me. He'll be leaving town in a few months, and I got my phone. Repeat as needed. With a legitimate name and my phone is stolen, lots of luck defending yourself against false accusations here. Luckily the old system of "justice" is still in place. Una mordidita para las polis y ya.
Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
We don't need no stinkin' log file! How dare they keep records of everything. AT&T, Verizon and Sprint would never do that! No way! If our telecoms actually kept records they would bill me for every minute I log any time on the network so that they could over charge me. In America, we know how to lie about the truth so we can steal from our customers, and then turn em into the Feds! We better build a bigger wall so their cellular towers don't vector any of our border towns!
I live in Mexico and I can tell you that one of the intentions of the law is to reduce the crimes that use cellphones to coordinate and execute (like kidnappings and drug deals).
The problem with this is the implementation, the law clearly specifies that your cellphone provider must take an ID and your fingerprint, but the most popular provider Telcel lets you register sending a SMS with your name and birth date. Essentially rendering the registration useless.
don't ya think?
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I cant understand what this will solve for the Mexican Government. Does this have anything to do with all the violent crime linked to the Mexican drug trade? Do they really think sending a CURP via SMS is a secure and infallible method? Good luck to them.
Oh and here is a possible theory: The USA could use this system to track illegals who might have bought their cell phones into the US. Doesent sound all that plausable but hey its a theory.
Stories like this always make me very, very glad that I've never bothered to buy a cell phone. I mean sure, I know my government will track me somehow anyway, but at least I have the satisfaction of making the bastards work for their data.
By posting as an AC you really showed them. They'll be stumped for months on that one!
So...now that we have more and more technology and more and more capability for governments to track every aspect of their priso..citizens there should be a few things noted. This is nothing new. Advancing technology has ALWAYS resulted in governments trying to leverage it for this very purpose. I seriously doubt this will ever change despite various groups flag waving about how THEIR country would never do this and pointing at other countries that have implemented things like this. As such, all the bitching and moaning in the world is not likely to stop this. A number of countries throughout history have "reset" their governments abilities through various revolutions (some rather bloody, others bloodless). Unfortunately the bloody type ones have typically been the most likely to result in destruction of government records by one side or the other. (Which is why the whole 2nd Amendment thing was put there, the notion that we are supposed to use our right to bear arms to protect ourselves from our fellow citizens is a warping of reality...it was meant ensure an armed citizenry to discourage government abuse. Of course this is all moot when the majority happily embraces this kind of "safety" measure.)
At the end of the day with technology constantly advancing and the "here there be monsters" parts of the map becoming non-existent there is only one way to ensure our future freedoms. My daughter will know how to execute SQL injections by the time she is 10! We live in an era where your average teenager is more capable of destroying/manipulating government plans/records/whathaveyou than any pitchfork and torch wielding mob has had since the days of the caveman!
Disclaimer: Parents, be careful with this plan, you wouldn't want to have your records swapped with (notorious threat of the day) for grounding your kid.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
The measure of a cellphone number database is to identify who is the user of the cellphone, this is intended to reduce the criminal movements of drugdealers and mafias all over the mexican country.
Well it's a good idea, but the mexican government didn't saw the real issues of relate cellphones and users: the institutions that will have access to the databases are corrupt far beyond solution, we all know in Mexico that institutions like AFI (similar to FBI in USA) and others are full of double-agents of organized crime.
So, from now on, organized crime will be aware of my phone number, my residence and another bunch of personal data. Great, just great. (Yeah, I live in Mexico if you haven't noticed by now.)
In my experience, there's several people who due to poverty or lack of concern are not registered with the relatively new CURP system. Thus I wonder, how will it affect those people? Will they shell out 20 pesos to pay some kid with internet access to get it for them, or will they stop using cell phones?
I believe (and hope) this law will fail in epic proportions. Mainly due to Telcel, pretty much the only cellphone provider, losing too many costumers over it. Also, there seems to be much opposition: there are very few comments supporting the law on the article linked.
Mexico does need a way to get rid of our infamy before the eyes of the world, a police state will only make us even worse. We don't need this kind of stupidity coming from our government, however corrupt it may be.
Give Kashyyyk back to the Wookies
Of course getting an stolen phone or cloning a numbers is still as easy as ever. This accomplishes nothing except perhaps tracking of innocent citizens.
But... the future refused to change.
Yep this is another stupid law passed under the guise of trying to fix a national security problem. The truth is it is just another way for the government to get another Nationwide Database of us Mexicans. Let us count how many we have.
1) We have the CURP. (national ID number)
2) We have the IFE. (national voting card)
3) We have the RFC. (national Tax Number, complete with electronic digital certificate plus you need to fingerprint your 10 digita for that one)
4) We have Cartilla de Vacunacion (national medical card, needed for most hospitals and free health services)
5) We have drivers license (again taging all the above)
5) We have CLABE (national bank account database... all your Financial info are belong to us linked to the Mexican Tax Sistem)
6) We have the Afore (national retirement account number)
7) Some states have a secondary voting card (since the national one could be untrustworthy)
8) We have birth certificate records with the CRIP (a longer version of the CURP)
9) National Military Card (for all males 18 and older which technically makes all of Male Mexicans National Reserve and you need to have it for the next database one, the passport)
10) Passports, (not required by law but do require #9 to get one and will also be required if you ever need to leave this place.)
woohoo.. so much for freedom of speech.
Most of them have all your personal info in them, plus fingerprints, plus anything and everything to tag you. There was the defunct RENAVE which was the national car ID. That was pass under the guise of people commit felony's on stolen cars.
Now a National Celular Id, what is next a National Phone Id, since people also commit crimes on the phone. Or maybe a National Public Phone id, since criminals could also use Public Phones. Or a National Internet Users Id while you are at it. Or a National Credit Card registry since credit cards are used in scams. No wait we have that one also (chalk it as number 11)
Maybe a national knife owners id, so in the supermarket when you buy a knife it will be registered in your name.
Now seriously, the main problem in this is that one more database to cross reference you by will not solve the crime problem. I used to work for a telemarketing firm, and they had bought half of the Databases mentioned above, so the information contained in those database is readily available thanks to corrupt officials. Some of them are even online like the CURP. (one XSS away from full access).
If you are Mexican, don't worry about all the databases, organized crime already have them all. That is how they target you. I know of cases where the criminals even know how much money you have in your bank account and suggest it to you if you try to say you don't have any money.
Now the implementation, you can send a SMS with what ever info you want. Want to become your neighbor, look his CURP up online here:
http://www.emexico.gob.mx/wb2/eMex/eMex_Consulta_tu_CURP
(just need his name and his birthday).
Seriously the problem is the Corrupt Mexican Government, why don't they pass laws to fix that, and maybe we wouldn't need just another national public database.
Here in Mexico they passed a law to instantly tax your deposits in the bank, if you get a cash deposit of 25000 pesos or more (like 2000 dls) instead of going after the known tax evaders. So honest folk pay taxes for the criminals which never do, and the criminals either don't care, have lawyers, or use bribes. Do you think criminals have money in the bank, come on.
This database will get abused like all the others and it is not in the public's interest. Criminals will now have access to all you family's cellular phone numbers so they know who to ask ransoms to.
MEXICAN GOVERNMENT, solve the problem don't make another stupid law that will not solve the problem.
In Soviet Mexico are belong to us, all your information.
There is simply nothing that stops you from grab the CURP from anyone, send the sms and get your phone linked to other person, then you can carry on with whatever illegal activities you plan to do and have the other person blamed.
It is insane, and I asked someone I know that works at Telcel and you can have more than one phone number linked to a single CURP.
Yes, this is supposed to difficult the coordination of illegal groups, such as drug dealers and kidnapers, but I fail to see how will this help unless we would do as the law says, be required to go on a cellphone center and provide our fingerprint.
And, personally, I completely dislike this measure, just for civil disobedience I'll go to somewhere where the CURP it's required, memorize a number of a random person (fortunately I can memorize long numbers easily), and send a sms with that number.
I think all the telcos here (Australia) lock the phone if you buy it through them. They will unlock it for a fee, and I think they're required to unlock it free of charge once your contract expires. This only applies if your new handset is part of the contract. Most let you buy the phone outright and that should come unlocked.
Even so, if you buy a handset outright from a third party it'll come unlocked, and I've never heard of any of the telcos refusing a phone on their network which you didn't buy from them. I'm with 3 and bought a new phone to replace my N73 (the contract I got that on doesn't expire until September or so) - just put the SIM from my old phone in my new one and it works fine. Better in fact, since my new phone supports HSDPA. This phone isn't actually carried by 3 at all and I suppose is technically not supported by them as a result, but they don't do anything to prevent you using your own phone if you want to.
There already is a very similar thing in Bulgaria (and probably in other countries). Here, the cellphone providers, the ISPs and all traveling agencies must keep detailed records in electronic format and grant access to them for the authorities at any time, without any warning. It's basically a human rights violation, but it seems that no one affected gives a damn. Maybe it's because the non-tech people don't realize the threat.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Even if you're an anonymoys coward, I have to agree with you. On both counts.
If we legalize Mary Jane and Nose Candy now, the "hip, with it" people will move to something else that is way too dangerous to be legal (crystal meth, anyone?). That will create a lucrative market for it.
The real solution would be to have a new kind of culture, that doesn't glorify delinquency and criminality. That'll be the day...
By keeping Marijuana illegal we make teens think they're living on the edge when they toke a joint. The fans of rock stars (if not the stars themselves) think they're out there, when they get busted for coke. They could be dealing with much more dangerous substances, and there is absolutely no way of completely blocking a supply for something that has such high-dollar demand.
It all comes back to how much freedom we can allow ourselves.
And not to be completely offtopic, a word about the phone deal: It is where we are going everywhere. ISPs forced to keep an IP log forever and other Patriot Act features that are now permanent. UK tracking all internet traffic (if not being able to analyze it all yet). China (among others) controlling what regular surfers see on the 'Net.
This are not alarmist FUD, they're today's reality. Increasing capacity of PCs will enable ever more complete tracking of everything we do online - and eventually analyzing and compiling relevant data to central databases; your whole life is an open book to the Big Brother). Orwell was eerily correct in his predictions. What he got wrong were the year and who would be behind it. It turns out that it was the most conservative Congress and President, who sold the whole thing, because we are afraid. Very, very afraid. Besides, you never know when seemingly benign activities turn out to be preparation for terrorism, so we'll have to keep track of everybody all the time. (Google Panopticon.)
When I was a kid, I heard a joke:
Q: What is the difference between capitalism and communism?
A: In capitalism some people exploit others; in communism it's the other way.
Either way, taken to the extreme, you end up in totalitarianism.
Every problem has a solution that is simple, easy and wrong. Selling our Liberty for a little Security is a much too de
Since pre-paid anonymous cell phones are almost always used for no good and legal purpose this sounds like a great idea for that kind of phone.
That's a very old and tired lie that "those with nothing to hide have nothing to fear"
http://www.biometricidentitycards.info/articles/NoHideNoFear.htm
What about whistleblowers, victims of abuse, or political dissidents? What happens when the government becomes a totalitarian regime?
Another powerful take on this:
http://tithonus.livejournal.com/339295.html
Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
So what happens if you buy and activate a prepaid cellphone in the US or Guatemala, then use it in Mexico??
Simple: Your prepaid phone will work only as long as it has a connection with a carrier that has a roaming contract with yours. Many, if not most, prepaids don't work internationally unless you register them (often for a fee), because international calls are hard to charge on prepaids (at least, where receiving one is charged to your account). Sure, you can use a fake ID, but pretty soon that will be considered a premeditated action to conceal illegal/terrorist activity.
Slam goes the door!
Every problem has a solution that is simple, easy and wrong. Selling our Liberty for a little Security is a much too de
Well, you can't read then. That's not flamebait either. You. Can't. Read.
What condescending insults? There was none. I identified with him. I said I agreed with him. There was no insult of any kind whatsoever. The closest I came to anything remotely like that, was expressing my dissatisfaction with his points to make marijuana legal. That's it. As for condescending, well that is your interpretation. I was merely trying to express to him there can be more effective means of not only communicating his points, but to win over people in this argument. To say that I was acting superior or patronizing is a stretch IMO. You are entitled to your opinion though, but to say I insulted him is just incorrect.
Here's what he said that had to do with marijuana (the rest was about himself and Mexico):
So now, where I am making the same points he did? Keep in mind that I made a specific commentary on the 2nd statement.
He made a point about the reduction of crime and a new revenue stream for the government. I made no such points at all. If anything, I disagreed with the new revenue stream as the government gains a far more valuable level of control AND revenue with the current illegal status of marijuana.
We both pointed out the prison population, but we were using it in different ways. He was saying that we could reduce the prison population while I was pointing out that it was illegal for the very fact it could create a profitable prison population in the first place. He implies we can address a problem, while I point out that the problem was desired and designed. Not the same point.
He used Al Capone as a comparison against the current Mexican drug lords, while I mentioned it specifically in regards to the IRS, something he never mentioned did he?
So I fail to see how I was redundant.
I honestly believe that his argument about how 1) Everyone does it and 2) The laws are not stopping anybody are extremely counter productive towards achieving the goal of legalization. You can think I insulted him, or that I was patronizingly superior, but I did NOT make the same arguments for legalization that he did.
...CURP (Unique Registration Population Code in Spanish, like the Social Security Number in the US) ...
Not by a long shot. CURP consists of four sections:
1. Four letter acronym - last name, mother's maiden name, first name and second name (or second letter from first name).
2. Six digits indicating your birth date.
3. Three letters indicating your state of birth.
4. Three letters and three digits, seemingly random but actually a predictable tag, to differentiate you from others sharing the first three sections, all very similar.
Many commercial apps in Mexico have the "CURP function" installed, you just type in the first three criteria, and out comes the full CURP. I believe even some legit Mexican websites provide this function. It's not intended to be secret and it's not tied in with your personal finances in any way.
Little or nothing to see here, folks, move along.
Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
So when alcohol was legalized in the 30's, everyone ran out and started doing heroin? I think you were doing heroin before you suggested this.
The collateral damage of crime surrounding narcotics is so much worse than the actual damage that the narcotics cause. Even your "way too dangerous" drug, the most dangerous thing about it is the production of it. I agree meth ravages a person and isn't something someone should be taking, but instead of throwing them in a pound-them-in-the-ass federal prison, we should be giving them counseling.
Look at tobacco and alcohol, two things that are legal, and please realize that everything you wrote is completely nonsensical. Your entire argument reads like a pro-prohibitionists argument during the 1920's. Absolutely nothing is solved by making narcotics illegal and thousands of problems are created.
By keeping Marijuana illegal we make teens think they're living on the edge when they toke a joint.
This sentence is the most ignorant of all. It sums up your complete incomprehension of the motivation of teenagers with your lack of the ability to see the major problems that prohibition causes. Just like this bill will do nothing to deter criminals in Mexico and only put more innocent people in harms way as the incentive to mug someone for their cellphone has just increased tenfold.
Not all phones and networks in the US have 'sim' cards. Only ATT and Tmobile I think, use phones that use 'sim' cards.
I've been with Sprint all my cellphone life, and until a couple years ago, I'd never even heard of a sim card, or the ability to take phones from one network to another.
I'd been very happy with Sprint till last few years. Their reception/signal has gotten abysmal, especially since I moved back to New Orleans proper (been living all around it for past 4 years). I guess they never quite recovered from Katrina maybe.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
You're right... You shouldn't be moderated Flamebait. Too bad you can't moderate someone "-1 Asshole", though. No offense, but you annoy the shit out of me (Hmm, where have I heard that before?).
You're also right that you didn't make the same points as the GP... He made rational point, your random paranoid conspiracy ramblings aside, your post added absolutely nothing to the discussion except insults.
Some of the GP's statements may have been overbroad, but none of them were actually wrong. Marijuana's legal status is clearly NOT a deterrent, at least not in any significant sense. You may disagree with the rationale for that legal status, but that does not invalidate the accuracy of that observation.
It's incredibly ironic that you take it upon yourself to educate the GP on how to effectively argue the pro-drug position after you have just done everything you possibly could to alienate him ("No offense, but you annoy the shit out of me", for example). If that's the way you always start these discussions, it's no wonder that you think none of your friends smoke pot: you don't have any friends left. After reading his post and yours, I can promise you that his was the much more persuasive of the two.
OK. We get it. You call Marijuana "Mary Jane". and Cocaine "Nose Candy". You use the word "hip". You speculate what "hip" people would do in ways that make it painfully evident that you have exactly zero insight into what it is like to be one of those people. You are not hip, and never will be. You didn't have to go so far out of your way to make the point. You did not have to make a statement like the above to prove that you have no reason or excuse for speculating on matters oif this nature, since you have zero experience with same. We get it. We really do.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun