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NSA Overstepped the Law On Wiretaps

Hugh Pickens writes "The NY Times reports that legal and operational problems surrounding the NSA's surveillance activities have come under scrutiny from the Obama administration, Congressional intelligence committees, and a secret national security court, and that the NSA had been engaged in 'overcollection' of domestic communications of Americans. The practice has been described as significant and systemic, although one official said it was believed to have been unintentional. The Justice Department has acknowledged that there had been problems with the NSA surveillance operation, but said they had been resolved. The Office of the Director of National Intelligence, which oversees the intelligence community, did not address specific aspects of the surveillance problems, but said in a statement that 'when inadvertent mistakes are made, we take it very seriously and work immediately to correct them.' The intelligence officials said the problems had grown out of changes enacted by Congress last July to the law that regulates the government's wiretapping powers, as well as the challenges posed by enacting a new framework for collecting intelligence on terrorism and spying suspects. Joe Klein at Time Magazine says the bad news is that 'the NSA apparently has been overstepping the law,' but the good news is that 'one of the safeguards in the [FISA Reform] law is a review procedure that seems to have the ability to catch the NSA when it's overstepping — and that the illegal activities have been exposed, and quickly.'"

22 of 164 comments (clear)

  1. when I overstep the law by bugs2squash · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wind up in trouble. I hope the NSA does too

    --
    Nullius in verba
    1. Re:when I overstep the law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nonsense! When a report about an agency of the government doing something illegal comes out, it is done not so that anyone doing anything illegal gets punished for it. Rather, it exists so that Congress can gently guide the NSA to stay inside the lines like a parent holding a retarded child's hand, trying to show them the proper way to color.

    2. Re:when I overstep the law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Excuse me Mr. ISP, we need to get a tap on your network."
      ''Do you have a warrant?''
      "Yes."
      ''May I see the warrant?''
      "No, it's privileged."
      ''Ok, can you point me to a judge that authorized this?''
      "No, it's privileged."

      You don't see a problem with this? How about taken with the fact that law enforcement is legally allowed to lie in the course of their duties?

    3. Re:when I overstep the law by grcumb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When a parent tells a child to commit a crime there isn't really a point to punish the kid. The government asked them to do something. Even if it is illegal the boss of the country asked them. It would be silly for the boss to then punish the kid for doing as told.

      Tell that to the German officers who were executed for crimes against humanity, despite pleading their innocence on exactly these grounds.

      This plea has since become known as the Nuremberg Defence. To my mind, it's no more compelling today than it was over 60 years ago, when we rejected it out of hand.

      In order for a democracy to remain healthy, it requires the participation of its citizens. This means more than just occasionally visiting a polling station. It means that, from time to time, we will be asked to challenge, in very practical terms, the validity of the assumptions to which we all adhere.

      I do not for a second believe that the NSA management and staff involved in this operation were not acutely aware that they were circumventing the law. If they knowingly broke the law, then they should be prepared to face the consequences.

      Opposing the System usually comes with a price. I don't doubt that refusing to carry out orders would be a, uh, career-limiting decision. But those who willingly participate in an immoral, unethical and illegal system should face the consequences of their choice as well.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    4. Re:when I overstep the law by camperdave · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even if it is illegal the boss of the country asked them.

      It doesn't matter who asked them. Illegal is illegal. SOMEONE broke the law. Someone made the moral/ethical decision to break the law. That person was not a kid, and should be held accountable. Also, asking someone to break the law for you is conspiracy. The boss of the country should also be held accountable. It's about time we started throwing Presidents and Prime Ministers in jail.

      Oh, and routers, cars, and tube carrying trucks do not have moral/ethical decision making capabilities. They cannot be held accountable for the actions of their users or abusers.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  2. They have been doing this for a long time by stox · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Telephone switches have had specific features to support this type of activity since at least the 1980's. The only difference, now, is that these practices are seeing the light of day.

    --
    "To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
    1. Re:They have been doing this for a long time by digitalchinky · · Score: 5, Informative

      Perhaps to expand on what you are saying, because you are dead on accurate: GSM and many POTS telephone services use CCITT7, this comes with SANC, OPC, DPC, & ISPC codes (along with many others), these are all well established. The majority of countries that want to play nice with the rest of the world actually have to use these codes properly too. (Signalling systems are a complex business!) So what actually are these codes? They describe the geography of international telephone circuits. The phone companies latitude and longitude if you will, accurate to about the first digit. I did not say decimal place! :-) What can they be used for? Hypothetically speaking, one would feel confident in presuming these would be used by your local 3 letter agency to 'filter out the good guys' - that's about the only way I can figure it could be done practically anyway. Well, aside from I guess using the label written on some masking tape in sharpie at either end of the international fiber to figure out roughly who is using it. (Note: your good guys may not match my good guys, but that's a political thing)

      Now obviously the diligent programer of this particular 'black box' would be inclined to put switches in to do this filtering based on these pretty little acronyms, thus allowing the owners of the 3 letter agency to legitimately talk about 'safeguards' and such. This is great, fantastic. Now, step in greedy middle level managers, directors, and politicians looking for that fast track up the ladder, or just in love with the whole "I can spy on your telephone call!!1!one!!" Rhetorical Question: You really think those switches are going to be in safe mode?

  3. Obama administration by bonch · · Score: 4, Informative

    Isn't this the same Obama administration that recently defended warrantless wiretapping?

    1. Re:Obama administration by artor3 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Obama's administration has claimed that companies who wrongly cooperated with the government in the warrantless wiretapping program should not be open to lawsuits.

      While I, and many others, may not agree with that stance, it does not mean that he's going to let the NSA do whatever the hell they want.

      At least, not necessarily. We'll see if anything comes of this.

    2. Re:Obama administration by rpillala · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the difference here is what you'd call a dragnet. The Obama position (as I understood it) is that wiretapping individuals without a warrant is acceptable under certain circumstances. Gathering communication indiscriminately is different and objectionable.

      Personally I like the way FISA was set up in 1978 and feel that 72 hours to obtain a retroactive warrant from a secret classified court is sufficient latitude for intelligence gathering in the "war on terror." Eliminating oversight by the judicial branch completely is totalitarian.

      --
      When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
    3. Re:Obama administration by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      equally naive to think the president has any POWER over the 3letter orgs.

      come on. you think a genie that powerful (the secret services, of which there are more than we can even know about) orgs will simply 'listen' to some guy who is here for what, 4 years?

      they outlast presidents. our system is now ruled by a small group and those you see on TV are the figureheads.

      this is not 18th century america. we have changed, radically, from what our actual roots were.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    4. Re:Obama administration by erroneus · · Score: 4, Funny

      For the LAST TIME, C.O.N.T.R.O.L. is a fictitious organization. There IS no agent 86 and especially no agent 99.

    5. Re:Obama administration by camperdave · · Score: 4, Insightful

      retroactive warrant? a secret classified court?

      You accept that? These things should strike terror in your bones and chill your very soul, yet you accept them?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  4. In sufficient incentives by SpecBear · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "When inadvertent mistakes are made, we take it very seriously and work immediately to correct them."

    If such systemic negligence resulted in loss of employment, fines, and/or quality time in a federal PMITA prison, then perhaps they would take it seriously and make sure it didn't fucking happen in the first place.

    1. Re:In sufficient incentives by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Come on now, when have draconian punishments ever stopped people from committing crimes, let alone making mistakes?

      The big difference is that most people commit crimes for their personal benefit.
      These guys are commiting crimes under some bogus rubric of protecting the country.
      At best their only personal benefit is a reduction of their own time spent on the project (for which they get paid for either way).

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  5. Good thing the gov't is unaccountable by Amiga500_Rulez · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/obama-doj-worse-than-bush "The Obama Administration goes two steps further than Bush did, and claims that the US PATRIOT Act also renders the U.S. immune from suit under the two remaining key federal surveillance laws: the Wiretap Act and the Stored Communications Act. Essentially, the Obama Adminstration has claimed that the government cannot be held accountable for illegal surveillance under any federal statutes."

    1. Re:Good thing the gov't is unaccountable by camperdave · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Douglas Adams said it best: The president's job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  6. Newspeak framing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just one example of newspeak framing:

    "The practice has been described as significant and systemic, although one official said it was believed to have been unintentional."

    "one official" -- makes the following sound like an "official" statement without anyone putting their name on the line. Who is the official?

    "said it was believed to be" -- implies that others agree and that this is the general belief. Governmentsprech for "some people say."

    Just reading this frames the subject, even if you know the announcement is full of s***. And framing is 90% of the battle. (Google George Lakoff on that one)

  7. This is what AP was talking about by TinBromide · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know that slashdot believes that information should be free. (And AP was wrong in accusing google because IIRC, Google does indeed license AP material from AP and they do pay AP money), but this is precisely the kind of story that you wouldn't get from bloggers or non-paid (free) journalism.

    I wonder how much money NY Times paid for this story? $500k, $1m? So, remember, I will be modded down for this, but as you rail against the government for over-stomping our rights, this was the work of a paid Journalist or paid Team of Journalists who used their Journalism Major to bring home a paltry paycheck (well, paltry for those of us in the IT or engineering industry).

    Stories like these make me hope that the newspaper industry finds a way to make money, because reporting like this takes money, but in a rare move by Big Content, that charged money benefits us all. (Unlike the latest Britney Spears release or Hollywood Movie).

    --
    Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
  8. Ok, I just have to snipe. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 4, Informative

    The practice has been described as significant and systemic, although one official said it was believed to have been unintentional.

    My 10 year old daughter uses that excuse. 'I didn't mean to throw cookie dough at my friend.

    'For 10 minutes.'

    Joe Klein at Time Magazine says the bad news is that 'the NSA apparently has been overstepping the law,' but the good news is that 'one of the safeguards in the [FISA Reform] law is a review procedure that seems to have the ability to catch the NSA when it's overstepping -- and that the illegal activities have been exposed, and quickly.'"

    Yeah, quickly. They were exposed almost 5 years [1] ago. An entire term of office for the US chief executive, for those of you keeping score. The FISA Reform act was not required to expose the activity. It was required to stop the activity. Maybe Time Magazine doesn't remember history very well, but we do. And we prefer not to implicitly lie with our choice of verb.

    Nor do we believe for a moment that the activity actually was stopped. Secret (kangaroo) courts and secret meetings and the utterly worthless assurances of the US Justice Department. Of course it's still on-going. I don't even have to wear a tin-foil hat to proclaim that. I don't sound the least bit nutty, saying that, because even major media reported the story, in detail, for months, and nobody cared.

    You think they're going to stop now? Of course they're not. Nobody was shot for treason when they endorsed a program that raped the US Constitution. Nobody was sent to jail when they designed a spying program that raped the US Constitution. Nobody lost their job when they implemented a surveillance program that raped the US Constitution. Nobody had their pay docked for listening to the phone calls of random citizens. Nobody got their knuckles rapped with a ruler for reading the email of random citizens. No, instead, they got condemned in the press. Oooooooo. The horror.

    They got away with it. Completely and utterly and totally. So why would they stop? When there are no negative consequences whatsoever, there's no reason at all to stop.

    The saddest part of all is that it can not be stopped. If Congress chose to do something about it, the members who led the effort would be pilloried as partisan and would lose reelection. Daring to stand on principle would result in losing their job, because that's what the voters think is right.

    Oh my people...

  9. I wouldn't care if I could trust them by carlzum · · Score: 4, Informative

    My bank has a record of every purchase I make, my doctor has my medical history, and my ISP knows what web sites I visit, but I'm not worried. So why do I care if the federal government has that information? Because I don't trust them, and for good reason. The Patriot Act was supposed to protect us from terrorists, but as soon as it was enacted the government used it to enforce copyright violations, kick homeless people out of a train station, and investigate drug dealers. Demonstrate some integrity and you'll earn people's trust.

  10. Re:Quit making up rights. by Wyzard · · Score: 4, Informative

    When were U.S. citizens given rights to privacy over a public infrastructure such as phone lines

    Katz vs. United States, which established that private telephone calls are protected by the Fourth Amendment.