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Iranians Outwit Censors With Falun Gong Software

Hugh Pickens writes "The NY Times reports that since last year more than 400,000 Iranians began surfing the uncensored Web using software created for the Falun Gong, a spiritual movement that has been suppressed by the Chinese government since 1999. More than 20 countries now use increasingly sophisticated blocking and filtering systems for Internet content, according to Reporters Without Borders, including Iran, China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Syria. The creators of the software seized upon by Iranians are members of the Global Internet Freedom Consortium, based largely in the United States and closely affiliated with Falun Gong. Interestingly enough, the United States government and the Voice of America have financed some of the circumvention technology efforts, and a coalition is organizing to push for more Congressional financing of anti-filtering efforts, bringing together dissidents of Vietnam, Iran, the Uighur minority of China, Tibet, Myanmar, Cuba, Cambodia, Laos, as well as the Falun Gong, to lobby Congress for the financing. 'What is our leverage toward a country like Iran? Very little,' said Michael Horowitz, a fellow at the Hudson Institute. 'Suppose we have the capacity to make it possible for the president of the United States at will to communicate with hundreds of thousands of Iranians at no risk or limited risk? It just changes the world.'"

171 comments

  1. What's old world is new world again by unlametheweak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hopefully the citizens of Britain and Australia and Germany can get a hold of this software so that they can use the Internet without government censorship impeding them.

    1. Re:What's old world is new world again by KibibyteBrain · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Heck, It would be prudent for everyone to keep a copy around just in case...

    2. Re:What's old world is new world again by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "Heck, It would be prudent for everyone to keep a copy around just in case..."

      I agree.

      Actually don't you find it a little ironic, that the US is apparently helping fund ways for other countries' citizens to circumvent their governments' censorship, all the while trying to clamp down and crack down on our own citizens usage of the internet?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:What's old world is new world again by Starayo · · Score: 1

      I already keep several programs that would defeat any filter that Conroy is competent enough to implement, as well as a simple list of proxies... If censorship in Australia happens, it won't affect me, but I'll be damned if I don't fight it every step of the way.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    4. Re:What's old world is new world again by rts008 · · Score: 1

      Exactly what I was thinking as I read the summary.

      If some other country tried something like that in the USA, it would be labeled as a terrorist threat/plot.

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    5. Re:What's old world is new world again by janrinok · · Score: 1

      Quotes from US Government and European Parliament documents. "It is U.S. policy to ... use all appropriate instruments of U.S. influence to support the free flow of information; deter U.S. businesses from cooperating with Internet-restricting countries in effecting online censorship." - The Global Online Freedom Act

      I have to agree with you! The above quote comes from the GIFC (http://www.internetfreedom.org/) web page. How do they square that statement with the other Government policies that aim to restrict an individual's access?

      --
      Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
    6. Re:What's old world is new world again by icebike · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I doubt the terrorist plot claim hold much water in the US any more.

      No, these days you can hear the plaintive wail of "Won't someone please think of the Children" anytime someone speaks out against censorship.

      Child porn is the major excuse for excessive censorship today, but Australia proposed to block thousands of legitimate sites in the pursuit of child porn, and Minnesota wants to block gambling sites.

      Most censorship in the US is not done by the Federal Government, but rather by over zealous ISPs, Schools, and in the work-place.

      The US government is large enough that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.

      However, don't expect this inconsistency to last if those pushing for more censorship gain the ear of the current administration.

      That being said, I will bet you Dollars to Donunts that government censorship will arrive in the EU before it arrives in the US on any comparable scale.

      This is because, when you strip away the rhetoric, the EU is based on the notion that people can not govern themselves, and the elite must assume this burden. The US has historically espoused the concept of self government.

      How long either can be true to their founding principals is anyone's guess.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    7. Re:What's old world is new world again by VeNoM0619 · · Score: 1

      Interestingly enough, the United States government and the Voice of America have financed some of the circumvention technology efforts

      Oh right, because their censorship doesn't match our laws, we would like to pass this on to them so they can break their own laws, because they aren't "free" (AKA not like "us").

      But when other countries governments interfere (importing drugs, prostitutes, etc.) that don't break their countries laws, but ours. We see it as a problem?!

      Isn't this a bit behind the back? Or did I mis-read something/not get enough details? I'm not saying free speech is bad (or drugs/prostitutes are good), I'm saying the double standard is, and we shouldn't interfere with other government's laws.

      --
      Disclaimer: I am not god.
      We may not be created equal
      But we can be treated equal.
    8. Re:What's old world is new world again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm... What?

    9. Re:What's old world is new world again by Pyrmontvillage · · Score: 1

      Hopefully the citizens of Britain and Australia and Germany can get a hold of this software so that they can use the Internet without government censorship impeding them.

      Yep Here in OZ, we may have to Resort to this. Who would have thought, that in 2009, this would be Happening!!!

    10. Re:What's old world is new world again by holgie · · Score: 0

      Hopefully the citizens of Britain and Australia and Germany can get a hold of this software so that they can use the Internet without government censorship impeding them.

      ... recently also Denmark joined the club of countries censoring the internet

    11. Re:What's old world is new world again by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      government censorship will arrive in the EU before it arrives in the US on any comparable scale.

      [...] the EU is based on the notion that people can not govern themselves, and the elite must assume this burden.

      Speaking as a citizen of a member country, my country isn't based on that notion, but one similar to the US: that the people governs itself (through representatives, of course). On paper, the crown still has power, but in practice that power is irrelevant because it isn't wielded.

      If we let the "EU Elite" govern us too much, it's because we (The People) failed to step out of a system which doesn't respect our need to govern ourselves.

      In unity lies strength, but in false unity lies divisiveness.

    12. Re:What's old world is new world again by icebike · · Score: 1

      The american jaw drops when the concept of "people governing" themselves and mention of a "Crown" are mixed in the same sentence.

      But I presume the word Grown is used to refer to a British style elected government.

      What notions your country WAS based on went out the window with the vote to join the EU.

      You are now based on something totally different, and it is not JUST because your national government fails to wield power, it is because YOU (the people) have relegated your national government to a status similar to a Canadian Province, or a US State.

      You chose this path.

      Your "constitution", like the American "Articles of Confederation" (the first US constitution) is fundamentally flawed. Your best course is a DO OVER, but the bureaucrats are having way too much fun playing president of the month to let that happen.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  2. As Always by TechForensics · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "The internet interprets censorship as damage, and routes around it". People can do so too.

    --
    Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
  3. I have a dream... by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... of a world without frontiers or lines, united through their common love of pirated games and porn download torrents.

    1. Re:I have a dream... by PingPongBoy · · Score: 3, Informative

      And the world has not been driven to dysfunctionalty by the freewheeling Internet, so censors and critics may as well get a life

      --
      Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
    2. Re:I have a dream... by ushering05401 · · Score: 1

      A world in which anyone with the mental capacity to *both* download and run a program gets /. headline cred for 'outwitting' somebody. Script-kiddies the world over rejoice.

    3. Re:I have a dream... by timeOday · · Score: 1

      I bet a lot of "Dateline - to Catch a Predator" viewers would disagree.

    4. Re:I have a dream... by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      And the world has not been driven to dysfunctionalty by the freewheeling Internet, so censors and critics may as well get a life

      You just have different standards from them. Sure, yours appear to be rational, wheras theirs are based on circular reasoning, but they see justification. What they're censoring is itself often taken as evidence that we need censorship: "People are looking at naked people online?!? We're in a state of moral decay!"

      If they were going to be rational about it, they'd realize that censorship doesn't have a great track record of doing much but annoying the victims.

  4. As the son of an Iranian refugee by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Since the fall of the Shah and the rise of the Ayatollahs, Iran has politically regressed to a very dangerous stage. However, culturally the country is still very close to America. Despite the religiosity demanded by the mullahs, many consolations have been made to keep the populace from rioting.

    From simple things like not requiring a full hijab to really bizarre things like ultra-temporary marriages to allow single men the pleasures of prostitutes legally under Sharia. Iran is a country struggling to break back into the modern world.

    The faster we can get a strong secular leader in power there, the better the odds of Iran returning to the peaceful international fold.

    1. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      really bizarre things like ultra-temporary marriages to allow single men the pleasures of prostitutes legally under Sharia.

      1:01am Get married
      1:02am Get divorce
      1:03am Profit

    2. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by quantax · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not to defend the current theocrats, but you do realize Shah was a dictator and already "politically regressed to a very dangerous stage" which is why the revolution happened. The current government is learning that that fever of the revolution has died and people just want to live their lives. The progress will be slow but I have confidence Iranians will increasingly reject the cultural neanderthals within their current government.

      --
      "What can a thoughtful man hope for mankind on Earth, given the experience of the past million years? Nothing." -Bokonon
    3. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by MrMarket · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The faster we can get a strong secular leader in power there, the better the odds of Iran returning to the peaceful international fold.

      Hopefully the "we" is you and your fellow Iranians (wonder if /. can be read in Iran). We (as in the rest of the world) have countless examples why we should not be in the business of installing our favorite "leaders" at the heads of unstable governments. Supporting means for people to criticize, mobilize, and install a leader that meets their best interests (as determined by them, not outsiders) may take longer, but ultimately results in a more stable society.

    4. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      This is Slashdot, so you're probably right about the time estimate.

    5. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "From simple things like not requiring a full hijab to really bizarre things like ultra-temporary marriages to allow single men the pleasures of prostitutes legally under Sharia. Iran is a country struggling to break back into the modern world."

      Are you serious? That sounds modern to you? How about women who want to fulfil their sexual desires - do they get to visit male escorts under this one-minute-marriage rule? I somehow doubt it. And not requiring a full hijab !=freedom either. You are gullibly swallowing the idea that a relaxation of draconian rules is a sign of progress. It's not. It's a sign that cynical leaders are prepared to give the masses a few sops so that there will never be enough popular support for real change. Only when the populace do riot will Iran have a hope of being dragged into what you call "the modern world".

    6. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      I too think it is wrong for one sect to have complete control of a country (as do most of the Ayatollahs in Iran). However, given what I've seen of Ahmadinejad's shoot from the hip, I don't care who I piss off, fiery rhetoric versus Khomeini's quietly cautious even though overly conservative and dogmatic style, I'm personally thankful that Khomeini has all the real political power, not Iran's duly elected president.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    7. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by lanorien · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Although it's true the Shah was a dictator of sorts, what the people of Iran wanted with the revolution was not an absolute theocracy. During the revolution there was a coalition of nationalists, communists, and others along with the Islamists. It just happened that the Islamists betrayed them all before the smoke even cleared and then wielded absolute power. I think anything to allow the Iranian people better access to the rest of the world is a tremendous step.

    8. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, uhh, you in LA? What are some good places for Iranian kabob? I knew a good one back in D.C., but can't find a comparable one in LA.

    9. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Nutria · · Score: 1

      The faster we can get a strong secular leader in power there, the better the odds of Iran returning to the peaceful international fold.

      Which is why it was probably stupid of the NYT to expose the ability to circumvent censorship...

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    10. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by julian67 · · Score: 1

      "The faster we can get a strong secular leader in power there, the better the odds of Iran returning to the peaceful international fold." That's what we said about the USA when Bush was in power....in fact any country controlled by authoritarian religious crackpots will benefit from replacing them with a liberal leader with secular leanings, though I have to admit that here in the UK we missed that opportunity when Blair slipped out of the back door.

    11. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Jawn98685 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The progress will be slow but I have confidence Americans will increasingly reject the Republicans within their current government.

      There. Fixed that for you. Yes, yes. I know that there are more countries in "America" than the U.S., but everybody still calls us Americans. The point is that one has to be struck by the similarity of two groups of culturally conservative old men who have become dangerously out of touch with the world they live in. Both are becoming marginalized as a result. Just sayin'.

    12. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean Kamenei

    13. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are you serious? That sounds modern to you? How about women who want to fulfil their sexual desires - do they get to visit male escorts under this one-minute-marriage rule? I somehow doubt it. And not requiring a full hijab !=freedom either. You are gullibly swallowing the idea that a relaxation of draconian rules is a sign of progress. It's not. It's a sign that cynical leaders are prepared to give the masses a few sops so that there will never be enough popular support for real change. Only when the populace do riot will Iran have a hope of being dragged into what you call "the modern world".

      Stupid parent. Your baby takes a couple of wobbly steps before falling on his chubby little ass and that looks like walking to you?

    14. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seasteading! /sarcasm

    15. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by icebike · · Score: 1

      > The faster we can get a strong secular leader in power there, the better the odds of Iran returning to the peaceful international fold.

      Its too late.

      We are well into the second generation of forced islam fundamentalism in Iran, and those that remember anything else are the "aging hippies" of their culture.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    16. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I need at least five minutes to smoke, you insensitive clod!!

    17. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by badfish99 · · Score: 1

      I hate to spoil a cliche, but shouldn't the .. er .. "profit" come before the divorce?

    18. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      I think what you meant was "NeoCons". The are easily confused these days...

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    19. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The progress will be slow but I have confidence Americans will increasingly reject the Republicans within their current government.

      There. Fixed that for you. Yes, yes. I know that there are more countries in "America" than the U.S., but everybody still calls us Americans.

      WTF has this flamebait have to do with the topic? Get a clue. Republicans aren't filtering the Internet. The past 8 years of rampant Bush-bashing is evidence of that.

    20. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't that make it a "in Soviet Russia" joke?

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    21. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by bar-agent · · Score: 1

      I've never seen it spelled like that. I wish governments would quit changing their minds on how their scripts get Romanized.

      --
      i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
    22. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      You are correct, I was confusing Ali Khamenei with his predecessor, Ruhollah Khomeini. Sorry, I guess all those guys in gray beards and black turbans look alike to me! ;-) Anyway, point still stands: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad frequently says things that are interpreted as offensive (especially by Israelis) while Khamenei goes out of his way to appear conciliatory and respectful of all the Abrahamic religions.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    23. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by toddles666 · · Score: 1

      Khomeni's been dead for 20 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khomeni. Khamenei took over as Supreme Leader when Khomeni died: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khamenei

    24. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Aris+Katsaris · · Score: 1

      A strong secular leader like Saddam Hussein you mean?

      Unless you are an Iranian, you have no business getting anyone in power over there.

    25. Re:As the son of an Iranian refugee by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Khomeni's been dead for 20 years

      I remember when his body fell out of the coffin because of the monkeys fighting to get a look at it. Good times.

  5. The markets are effective at this sort of thing by azgard · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Look at the military industry for example. There is a large market for guns, shells and missiles on one side, and also large market for bulletproof vests, armour and missile defense on the other side.

    This is a similar situation. Especially the makers of internet filtering software, such as Cisco, should take note of this emerging market opportunity.

    So, we should really keep the markets do their own thing, and the economy will grow and prosper.

    1. Re:The markets are effective at this sort of thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >

      So, we should really keep the markets do their own thing, and the economy will grow and prosper.

      Except we end up creating useless products without a point, instead of using those resources for something that might be helpful.

    2. Re:The markets are effective at this sort of thing by azgard · · Score: 2, Informative

      Exactly! Maybe that was why I was sarcastic..

    3. Re:The markets are effective at this sort of thing by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't dismiss this progress out of hand. Both the problems faced by censors and the problems faced by those routing around them are very significant issues in the science of networks. The solutions, even the ones used by the "enemy" (the censors) will have wider applications: For example, the packet filtering algorithms could be useful against botnets.

      It's like spammers advancing OCR technology.

    4. Re:The markets are effective at this sort of thing by Obfuscant · · Score: 1
      Except we end up creating useless products without a point, ...

      If a company creates a product that people want to buy, evidently those people see a point and don't find it useless. If nobody wants to buy a product, it isn't made for very long, and the company moves on to something else. A growing, healthy economy is a two-sided sheet of paper. On one side there are producers, on the other consumers. Producers need to be free to make what consumers want to buy. If producers don't make things the consumers want to buy, the economy fails.

      That's the whole point behind free markets and capitalism. Free markets and capitalism work, unless you are someone who wants to define what is necessary for others. Then they are a danger that must be regulated. Regulating what a company can make doesn't create demand, it only creates failure.

      E.g., people want cars that can carry more than two skinny adults and a bag of peanuts. They're called SUVs. They carry more stuff and people more safely than tiny little cars. They go places that tiny little cars cannot. Some people don't want to allow this as a choice, so they create regulations on the market that limit choices.

      "Your car must get 30 MPG." I'm ok paying for the gas at 27 MPG, it's none of your business if I want to pay extra for the comfort and safety.

      "You live in the city and don't need an SUV." I live in the city and drive into the country to search for people when they get lost. I think that could be called "helpful", don't you?

    5. Re:The markets are effective at this sort of thing by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      E.g., people want cars that can carry more than two skinny adults and a bag of peanuts. They're called SUVs. They carry more stuff and people more safely than tiny little cars. They go places that tiny little cars cannot. Some people don't want to allow this as a choice, so they create regulations on the market that limit choices.

      "Your car must get 30 MPG." I'm ok paying for the gas at 27 MPG, it's none of your business if I want to pay extra for the comfort and safety.

      "You live in the city and don't need an SUV." I live in the city and drive into the country to search for people when they get lost. I think that could be called "helpful", don't you?

      The counter point is that letting almost everyone pick this option destroys the environment EVERYONE shares, and drives up prices of gas for people that don't actually buy large cars. So allowing things unrestricted negatively affects everyone. I suppose you could say your right to a big SUV ends at might right to breathe (cleaner) air.

    6. Re:The markets are effective at this sort of thing by triffid_98 · · Score: 1

      E.g., people want cars that can carry more than two skinny adults and a bag of peanuts. They're called SUVs. They carry more stuff and people more safely than tiny little cars.

      Interestingly enough, they're only called SUVs because of CAFE laws getting passed in '75 following the Arab oil embargo. Before that we just bought big cars. Since SUVs and Minivans are classified as light trucks, they don't have to meet the same mileage standards...though I think this may have changed recently.

    7. Re:The markets are effective at this sort of thing by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      The counter point is that letting almost everyone pick this option destroys the environment EVERYONE shares,

      Then create a better alternative. Whenever we have something better, cheaper, more reliable then a gas powered engine that will fit in an SUV sized car tell me, and I will buy it. Unfortunately as of May 1st, 2009, we don't. The alternatives we have are generally less reliable, require more maintenance and are a ton more expensive, plus they are tiny.

      If enough people want "greener" cars, they can either pay extra or wait for the technology to become avalible to make cheap, decent, "green" cars and SUVs.

      and drives up prices of gas for people that don't actually buy large cars

      Um... I don't really understand your reasoning, but assuming that Mega Oil Company wants to make $5 billion in profit this year, if everyone drives cars that get 50 MPG, and drives the same amount of miles, they will have to raise oil prices in order to make that $5 billion. If everyone drives cars that get 20 MPG, they can afford to cut back the price some because there is much more demand.

      So allowing things unrestricted negatively affects everyone. I suppose you could say your right to a big SUV ends at might right to breathe (cleaner) air.

      That would be true, but outside most large cities, it is rather clean (at least here in the USA), and it isn't too hard to move to a pristine suburb and commute to work in your ultra-clean car.

      I might agree with you if it wasn't for that fact. Get out of the larger cities and you have nearly no air pollution. If you need less work from your home in some wilderness area where there are no paved roads.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    8. Re:The markets are effective at this sort of thing by Obfuscant · · Score: 1
      The counter point is that letting almost everyone pick this option destroys the environment

      No, it doesn't. Driving an SUV doesn't destroy anything. Allowing everyone choice doesn't destroy anything but control-freaks. Allowing everyone the same option is called "equality of opportunity", and we know that not everyone will make the same choice, so your implication that "if we allow it everyone will do it" is nonsense.

      and drives up prices of gas for people that don't actually buy large cars.

      No, failure to produce drives up the price. It isn't my fault that drilling offshore is NIMBY and ANWR is prohibited.

      I suppose you could say your right to a big SUV ends at might right to breathe (cleaner) air.

      No, I wouldn't say that, because it isn't true and isn't relevant. I don't think you have the right to breathe absolutely pure air, simply because the existence of other people (along with the animals and volcanoes and forest fires...) makes the air less than pure. That means there is some level of "pollution" that has to be allowed. If you want to demand that my addition to the level is zero, then you better shut off your computer and disconnect your electric service and stop eating anything you personally haven't grown in your backyard, since everything you do causes some level of "pollution."

      In other words, you have the right to exist, which implies the right to emit "stuff" into the air, so I have the same rights. Instead of using a fireplace to heat my home, I have an SUV. I think I come out ahead on "carbon credits".

      You probably fell for the Clinton trick of issuing an executive order lowering allowable arsenic levels in water to some ridiculously tiny amount, which led to liberals flaming the conservatives when that order was quite appropriately rescinded by the next president. "Oooh, those awful Republicans want to poison the water", which is a patently absurd claim since the previous limits caused no danger to anyone, much less poisoned them. "Anything more than zero is too much" is a wonderful platitude, but it isn't realistic and it isn't possible. (And if you try to meet that level by drinking only distilled filtered water, you are responsible for a lot of carbon footprint for the energy necessary to reach those tiny (but still nonzero) levels of pollutants.)

      This all avoids the initial issue, which is regulating businesses because they might not make useful things. People find SUVs useful, so they are being made. Prohibiting SUVs won't create an equal demand for tiny shitbox cars. A healthy economy relies on both producers making desired goods and consumers desiring them. Either side stops, the economy fails.

    9. Re:The markets are effective at this sort of thing by Gallomimia · · Score: 1

      There are many in the world (He who invented Lawyers comes to mind) who would argue that as long as it causes people to be able to feed their families and buy cars so that the car makers can feed theirs and so on.

      Just look at the recycling business for example. The government spends a lot of money subsidizing this industry and yet it costs more to recycle than it does to landfill the waste and dig up and process new shit. It causes more pollution to sort and recycle old shit than it does to harvest and process fresh. Except aluminum. Processing bauxite is fucking brutal on this planet. In fact in Canada we've been known to locate aluminum smelters in close proximity to hydroelectric dams. Imagine damming a river and flooding a whole valley so that you can make shit out of aluminum-bearing rocks.

      Anyway, examine the global economy as a whole. It is filled with useless products that actually fuel the economy in such a way that it is temporarily self sustaining. Or... was.

      --
      Sadly, a Libertarian cannot force his views on another, and freedom cannot spread as does the cancer known as religion.
    10. Re:The markets are effective at this sort of thing by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      I find it deliciously ironic that it was DARPA that kicked off ARPANET which eventually led to our present day Internet. So yes, you can thank the US military for your tubular access to the âoeInterwebâ. Enjoy!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    11. Re:The markets are effective at this sort of thing by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Then create a better alternative. Whenever we have something better, cheaper, more reliable then a gas powered engine that will fit in an SUV sized car tell me, and I will buy it. Unfortunately as of May 1st, 2009, we don't. The alternatives we have are generally less reliable, require more maintenance and are a ton more expensive, plus they are tiny.

      If enough people want "greener" cars, they can either pay extra or wait for the technology to become avalible to make cheap, decent, "green" cars and SUVs.

      The counter point here would be that nobody will research alternative methods because they won't make back the money. Everything new is more expensive at first, there's pretty much no getting around it.

      Um... I don't really understand your reasoning, but assuming that Mega Oil Company wants to make $5 billion in profit this year, if everyone drives cars that get 50 MPG, and drives the same amount of miles, they will have to raise oil prices in order to make that $5 billion. If everyone drives cars that get 20 MPG, they can afford to cut back the price some because there is much more demand.

      Um, did you fail basic econ? Lower demand drives prices down, not up. Especially when you start talking about discressonary spending, which gas can be to some extent. But people would likely drive more, so prices would likely equalize about where they are now, because demand would likely stay where it's at now.

      With your SUV though, you helped increase demand because your milage didn't change, but your miliage sucks more than it used to, so demand went up, and prices went up.

      That would be true, but outside most large cities, it is rather clean (at least here in the USA), and it isn't too hard to move to a pristine suburb and commute to work in your ultra-clean car.

      See, this is where you fail. Your right to pollute the air negatively affects me still... I now have to choose between a longer commute and less convient place to live, and still only have clean air sometimes (because I work in the city, so I'm still exposed half the day to your pollution).

      If your car didn't pollute, there'd be no discussion. That's the argument.

      I might agree with you if it wasn't for that fact. Get out of the larger cities and you have nearly no air pollution. If you need less work from your home in some wilderness area where there are no paved roads.

      If my neighbor is harrassing me to the point I think about moving, I likely have a very good civil case against him, and its clear he's infringing on my rights. You just lost the argument, because now my right to live where I want and be happy is being infringed by your right to drive your gas guzzling car.

      That's my point.. your right to drive your car isn't any more important than my right to live in a city with clean air (if anything, I'd argue my right to clean air is more important than your right to a gas guzzling SUV).

    12. Re:The markets are effective at this sort of thing by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      No, it doesn't. Driving an SUV doesn't destroy anything. Allowing everyone choice doesn't destroy anything but control-freaks.

      Oh, I must have imagined Exxon oil washing up in Alaska, climate change, ice caps melting, smog, and cancer all coming from burning gas.

      Allowing everyone the same option is called "equality of opportunity", and we know that not everyone will make the same choice, so your implication that "if we allow it everyone will do it" is nonsense.

      Ya, that's why parks keep themselves clean and we don't need to have liter laws or people cleaning up trash blowing around in them.

      No, failure to produce drives up the price. It isn't my fault that drilling offshore is NIMBY and ANWR is prohibited.

      Well, why would I produce when I can keep current production where it is while demand is going up? I mean, we're not producing enough now which is why gas prices are still high. Oh wait...

      No, I wouldn't say that, because it isn't true and isn't relevant. I don't think you have the right to breathe absolutely pure air, simply because the existence of other people (along with the animals and volcanoes and forest fires...) makes the air less than pure. That means there is some level of "pollution" that has to be allowed. If you want to demand that my addition to the level is zero, then you better shut off your computer and disconnect your electric service and stop eating anything you personally haven't grown in your backyard, since everything you do causes some level of "pollution."

      I wasn't demanding polution be zero, but those that are making it signficantly worse by driving inefficent cars need to be reigned in. There's no excuse for buying a Hummer that gets 9 MPG when a car can get 29.

      In other words, you have the right to exist, which implies the right to emit "stuff" into the air, so I have the same rights. Instead of using a fireplace to heat my home, I have an SUV. I think I come out ahead on "carbon credits".

      Oh, well then I guess you won't mind if I "emit" sound into the air at all nights. I mean its excessive, but no more than excesive than the low MPGs of SUVs. And your home isn't being heated for free either; you're burning something there too, so your SUV is ADDING, not replacing a source of pollution. And my problem is that the SUV is exessively polluting.

      You probably fell for the Clinton trick of issuing an executive order lowering allowable arsenic levels in water to some ridiculously tiny amount, which led to liberals flaming the conservatives when that order was quite appropriately rescinded by the next president. "Oooh, those awful Republicans want to poison the water", which is a patently absurd claim since the previous limits caused no danger to anyone, much less poisoned them. "Anything more than zero is too much" is a wonderful platitude, but it isn't realistic and it isn't possible. (And if you try to meet that level by drinking only distilled filtered water, you are responsible for a lot of carbon footprint for the energy necessary to reach those tiny (but still nonzero) levels of pollutants.)

      No, that's just what you bleat because you don't want to exercise any kind of self control over your excesses. Again, no where did I say we can't pollute at all... but since I targeted SUVs, you should have come to the conslusion I'm against the excessive polluting they do.

      This all avoids the initial issue, which is regulating businesses because they might not make useful things. People find SUVs useful, so they are being made. Prohibiting SUVs won't create an equal demand for tiny shitbox cars. A healthy economy relies on both producers making desired goods and consumers desiring them. Either side stops, the economy fails.

      Yea, right, that's why last summer demand for smaller cars was rising with the gas prices. No, you can affect people by regulating things. If your prohibit SUVs, there's nothing that can take its place, so people would have to buy smaller cars..

  6. Hooray for Falun Gong by BigHungryJoe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Falun Gong/Falun Dafa have been brutalized by the Chinese government for years for doing nothing more than practicing a mental and physical discipline.

    They are experts in software like this because their leadership is almost certainly under constant surveillance.

    1. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      So tell me, are you an employee of the Chinese government, or just an ordinary Chinese citizen?

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Chinese Intelligence Operative alert!

    3. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Falun Gong/Falun Dafa have been brutalized by the Chinese government for years for doing nothing more than practicing a mental and physical discipline.

      Ummm.... not really true. It's because the Falun Gong ideology clashes with the government. Also, they have shown that they can organize people to protest against the government, and I think you know what the Chinese government like to do with activists.

    4. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by SquirrelsUnite · · Score: 1

      Um, please read up on Falun Gong. You seem blissfully ignorant of the reality of this cult.

      Why not enlighten us then? While probably most readers are pro Falun Gong/anti Chinese government in this conflict I'm sure some of us can be convinced with well-reasoned arguments and documented cases of whatever nefarious activities Falun Gong members generally engage in.

      I mean we could probably do the research ourselves but since you're obviously better informed you could just point us towards the highest quality sources yourself.

    5. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by vertinox · · Score: 2, Informative

      Falun Gong/Falun Dafa have been brutalized by the Chinese government for years for doing nothing more than practicing a mental and physical discipline.

      From what I read about the Fulun Gong is that they are pretty similar to Scientology in beliefs and certain "practices". Now even though Scientologists can be a bit shady with their cult, I would still argue that it would be wrong to throw them in jail and beat their members much like the Chinese did to the FG.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    6. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would still argue that it would be wrong to throw them in jail and beat their members much like the Chinese did to the FG.

      With the exception of one. Come on guess, guess who!

      Yes you guessed it, but it's not cause I hate his movies. It's only cause he believes in it so wholeheartedly.

    7. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      perhaps because the government has been persecuting, torturing, and killing them. That's a pretty good incentive to go activist. If you look back a few years, the gov't encouraged Falun Gong, and then suddenly changed it's stance.

    8. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by plasticsquirrel · · Score: 1

      Ummm.... not really true. It's because the Falun Gong ideology clashes with the government. Also, they have shown that they can organize people to protest against the government, and I think you know what the Chinese government like to do with activists.

      Ethics in Falun Dafa basically consist of "truthfulness, compassion, and forbearance." These are simple principles that everyone agrees on that have nothing to do with political or religious ideology. Also, there was a long stretch in the 1990's when Falun Dafa was not only permitted by the government, but was actively encouraged by it for health reasons. For around a decade, it was quite popular among Chinese qigong practitioners in China, but relatively unheard of in the West. However, in 1999, in response to a widely-read and controversial article by an academic criticizing qigong and Falun Dafa in general, there was a silent and peaceful protest that basically consisted of practitioners showing up to practice Falun Dafa together in solidarity. When the government saw this disruption of "national unity", they began to assess Falun Dafa as a threat since it has one leader, Li Hongzhi, who is the divine and de facto head of it all. Since that time, widespread persecution of Falun Dafa practitioners has gone on, and Li Hongzhi fled China to the U.S. where he lives now. Nothing much has changed in the last ten years.

      Falun Dafa is not really a religion in itself or just a qigong practice, though. It's actually something in between -- a blend of Taoist and Buddhist philosophy with modern views on qigong, and even some things about UFO's and pyramids that are unique to Chinese culture. Li Hongzhi is the irreplaceable leader who disseminated the practice in China (purportedly from hermit masters), but there is no previous history of the practice in China, and many of the views are uniquely modern qigong-based ideas. For example, Li says that he gives all practitioners a qiji ("energy mechanism") in the form of the Falun Dafa symbol, which is installed into their lower dan tian ("energy field") point. This falun qiji ("wheel of dharma energy mechanism") is said to continuously rotate, giving out energy. These sort of ideas blend a host of folk beliefs, ideas about meditation, and modern qigong ideas in a very unique way. When considering past Buddhist and Taoist cultivation methods, both exoteric and esoteric, there is really nothing similar to it, or a way that it fits in with them.

      Around ten years ago when it was a big thing, I read Zhuan Falun and the other books available by Li Hongzhi. In retrospect after reading Buddhist sutras and Daoist classics, I think that Falun Dafa is strange and not very effective when compared to the esoteric methods of Tibetan Buddhism and Japanese Shingon, or the pure exoteric methods of Zen, Tiantai, Nichiren, Pure Land, and so on. Even practicing the very simple Pure Land mantra "Namo Amitofo" is a far more effective method that will be better for energy and health, and will result in greater meditative ability.

      --
      Systemd: the PulseAudio of init systems
    9. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Falun Gong/Falun Dafa have been brutalized by the Chinese government for years for doing nothing more than practicing a mental and physical discipline.

      That's what Falun Gong says, but it doesn't make sense. Why, exactly, would the Chinese government repress a particular school of mental and physical health?

      Unless it's more than that, of course...

    10. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      The Falun Gong aren't really a great example for champions of religious freedom. It's kind of like Germany.. we all believe in free speech and free ideas but somehow can't get too worked up about Germany's laws against Nazi propoganda or their official condemnation of Scientology. In China of course it's horrible what they do to Falun Gong followers but Falun Gong is pretty stupid. It's all that superstitious, mystical, focusing-your-spiritual-energy BS that attributes sickness and pain with your mind force being out of alignment.. all I'm saying is that I can definitely see why a secular moralist authoritarian government would be very interested in keeping Falun Gong away from its uneducated peasants "for the public good" or whatever. The only politics involved is that the government fills the role of keeping the country healthy and moral (no porn, don't play too much WoW, be an upstanding member of your community) and they see religion as a threat to reason and science, and anything that devolves the mind of china is a threat to china.

    11. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by GargamelSpaceman · · Score: 1

      Except they shut off service to the Iranians. For a religious movement they have pretty nationalistic scope. Blech!

      --
      ...
    12. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Just as Lenin was inserted into Russia by the Germans during WW1,
      so Fulun Gong ws inserted into China by the CIA.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    13. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So tell me, are you an employee of the Chinese government, or just an ordinary Chinese citizen?

      What's the difference?

    14. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'FG' is a dangerous cult here in China. the west has been hoodwinked into believing many stories that if you were to look into closely are simply fabrications. YES the CN gov does what is 'necessary' to keep FG under control. now in US the gov PAYS the dangerous cults. just take a look at the bizarre cults that exist in US and this answers your question about control or no control of dangerous cults. cults SHOULD be controlled otherwise it creates things like WACO. Slashdot today is just another slashvertisment peddling FG as a good cult, the false truths continue.....

    15. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So tell me, are you a 'free American'??

    16. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Falun Gong is rather clearly a cult, and is certainly not just "mental and physical discipline." I've seen numerous claims made by supporters that are obviously bogus and dangerous, including things like Falun Gong curing cancer when patients stopped seeking normal treatment and just practised Falun Gong. Those sorts of claims kill people.

      Also, in many cases, it seems that supporters try to subversively insert pro-Falun Gong propaganda into things that are not represented as having anything to do with the cult, including, for example, the show that often travels through the US claiming to be a representative presentation of Chinese performing arts, with the fact that it is funded entirely by Falun Gong supporters left entirely unmentioned save for a bit of fine print.

      Certainly, the Chinese government is wrong in the way they are going about handling the situation, and their methods aren't even effective: I would think it far better to simply hang Falun Gong supporters with their own words. But this doesn't mean that Falun Gong is somehow innocent or wonderful, in the same way that Scientology being evil does not mean that Anonymous is nice.

    17. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So tell me, are you really familiar Falun Gong's belief, practice, history and what they have done?

    18. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't be surprised to see Falun Gong being funded by CIA, as Dalai Lama was during the sixties (and maybe now). The reason they are so popular here is obvious: they have becoming a political tool western countries find handy when dealing with Chinese government. I feel so disgusted by Falun Gong's lame way of connecting themselves to traditional Chinese culture in their show and propaganda. They neither represent nor reflect them. I'd suggest people who are pro Falun Gong to read their "bible" Zhuan Fa Lun and see how ridiculous a book it is.

    19. Re:Hooray for Falun Gong by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      but Falun Gong is pretty stupid. It's all that superstitious, mystical, focusing-your-spiritual-energy BS that attributes sickness and pain with your mind force being out of alignment...

      Well, is it all that different than say Scientology where sickness (especially mental sickness) are attributed to fragments of evil aliens that got blown to bits in a super volcano explosion and the fragments now pollutes all non-clean souls, and can only be cleaned through extensive (and expensive!) auditing by people whose souls are clean...?

      Face it, most faiths and religions are stupid in every aspect.

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
  7. Why the surprise over Voice of America Support? by dorzak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Voice of America started as a radio network for broadcasting news that shows a different point of view from that by censors in the old Soviet Bloc.

    This just seems a continuation of the same mission.

    1. Re:Why the surprise over Voice of America Support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you actually RTFA, the Falun Gong actually block everyone from using their service but China. Apparently too many Iranians used it.

  8. Information does not "want" to be free. by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In the same way that an object does not "want" to fall when it is dropped, or a species does not "want" to evolve.

    But it will, regardless, simply because that is its natural state.

    1. Re:Information does not "want" to be free. by unlametheweak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Information does not "want" to be free.

      It's more like information has a tendency to diffuse like a gas. It's hard to keep information bottled up.

    2. Re:Information does not "want" to be free. by johnsonav · · Score: 5, Funny

      Anthropomorphism hates being used in an analogy.

      --
      ... and that's when the C.H.U.D.'s came at me.
    3. Re:Information does not "want" to be free. by idontgno · · Score: 1

      or a species does not "want" to evolve.

      Oh, I can think of at least two species who want, very badly, to evolve. At least to the point of not staring and begging for cheezburgers or hotdogz.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    4. Re:Information does not "want" to be free. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Information's natural state isn't "free", it's "corrupted".
      According to thermodynamics, anything that stores information will eventually lose or alter that information so radically that it will be unrecognizable from its original state.
      I suppose information does have a tendency to spread over time, but it also has a greater tendency to become mangled or lost. An entire database of records can be lost with a hard drive failure or an entire lifetime of memories can be wiped out in a car crash in seconds.

  9. Cyber attack? by wiredog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Interestingly enough, the United States government and the Voice of America have financed some of the circumvention technology efforts,

    Would that count as a cyber attack on Iran or China?

    1. Re:Cyber attack? by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      Look at it as the equivilant non-cyble technology. In this case, it would be like handing out encrypted radios to all the people in the target country. I don't know that that would constitute an attack, but it sure would piss off the powers that be.

    2. Re:Cyber attack? by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      Of course not, it's "cyber-liberation"! ;)

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
  10. Patronizing as hell by AdamWill · · Score: 2, Funny

    "'Suppose we have the capacity to make it possible for the president of the United States at will to communicate with hundreds of thousands of Iranians at no risk or limited risk? It just changes the world.'"

    Right, because those dumb Iranians couldn't possibly know anything until POTUS tells 'em about it. Obama will just do a two minute webcast on how many great jobs are available in the American auto industry, bookended by lolcats, and the government will fall!

    Sheesh.

    1. Re:Patronizing as hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well its either that or they are told by their government that our president has been dissin them with yo'mama jokes. But at least they won't be Seinfeld jokes!

    2. Re:Patronizing as hell by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Way to let your ideology block you from getting the point.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Patronizing as hell by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      The major motivations for people who fight wars are pride, fear and access to resources. If you really want only one reason, its probably fear.

      Fear frequently is a result of ignorance of what the other side is really saying.

      The people of Iran and most populations in general, are not interested in wars. There's nothing in it for them except hardship and poverty. They will fight if they have to, however. The censorship of the media in Iran makes it possible for the mullahs to filter the information coming in, so it looks like the West are aggressors.

      Free exchange of information stops wars.

    4. Re:Patronizing as hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ridiculous! R. I. D. I. C. U. L. O. U. S.

      Or put another way, complete and utter horseshit.

      Wars are not started by "the people"--they are almost inevitably started by the ruling class of a society--this might be the maximum leader of a dictatorship, the supreme soviet of a communist country, or a wrong-headed former Texas governor. And rarely is "fear" the primary cause. Hitler didn't fear Poland in 1939, the U.S. didn't fear Mexico in 1846, and China didn't fear South Korea in 1950.

      The idea that the free flow of information is likely to prevent war in the light of these facts is so far beyond naive that it's hard to express just how wrong-headed it is.

  11. Left hand, meet right hand by JimMcc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First, I'll state that I support this, worldwide.

    That said, I find it a bit whacked that on one hand we have part of our government demanding filtering and selective blocking of websites in public locations and schools. While at the same time a different part of our government is supporting and funding software to bypass filtering and blocking.

    Maybe we should drop the Politically Correct filtering efforts and quit wasting everybody's money. After all, isn't that what our government seems to be saying to other countries? Or is it just our country and our allies that are allowed to filter? Come on USA, get your story straight.

    1. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by JoeBuck · · Score: 1

      Yes, and I'm sure plenty of Iranians are using this kind of technology to download software from US sites, despite attempts by those sites to honor US export control laws that require the boycotting of Iran. Not that any of this really matters from a security point of view, as the Iranian government would always be able to get what it wants.

    2. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by Xtravar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It makes perfect sense.

      We blow up foreign infrastructure only to rebuild it.

      We give tax breaks while simultaneously starting new spending programs.

      We fight poppy growers, who fund terrorism, while simultaneously sustaining an artificially expensive black market for drugs. In a sense, we're both funding and fighting terrorism.

      So there's absolutely nothing inconsistent about our behavior here.

      --
      Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
    3. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by MrMarket · · Score: 1

      Dude. Everything is not black and white. I appreciate a little nuanced pragmatism if it keeps you and your homeless comrades from enjoying pron at the library.

    4. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by Nathrael · · Score: 1

      We blow up foreign infrastructure only to rebuild it.

      To be fair, that *did* work quite good for Japan. I just wish it would have worked as well for Germany as well...

      --
      A good education is a bit like a STD - it makes you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and gives you a desire to spread it.
    5. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummmm... I know. There is this president from this country... yah Iran. He calls the US a hypocrite.

    6. Re:Left hand, meet right hand by Pervaricator+General · · Score: 1

      To be fair, Japanese infrastructure was revitalized by a focus on quality and efficiency, not by being built from the ground up. We had the same opinion about Japanese products post-war as we do about Chinese, pre-WWIII

  12. What about the people being held in guantanamo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will this software give them a voice? Will it allow them to get a fair or timely trial or avoid being tortured by the Americans?

    Hell no.

    1. Re:What about the people being held in guantanamo? by jDeepbeep · · Score: 1

      Will this software give them a voice? Will it allow them to get a fair or timely trial or avoid being tortured by the Americans?

      Hell no.

      Well, for starters, we have an immanent closure of the facilities there. Even with the trial delays being attempted, it won't be operating for long.

      --
      Reply to That ||
  13. The 'net is pull, not push, technology by Locke2005 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Suppose we have the capacity to make it possible for the president of the United States at will to communicate with hundreds of thousands of Iranians at no risk or limited risk? It just changes the world. You're assuming those thousands of Iranians would actually want to download messages from Obama, rather than downloading porn. As a general rule, the more repressed people's public lives are, the more sleazy their secret, private lives become. Iran has a huge surplus of educated but unemployed young men. I suspect that "free porn" is pretty high on their list of motivations for defeating filters, while "hearing what Obama has to say" is pretty low. Especially given that Obama doesn't speak Farsi. Porn is universal, it needs no translation. When was the last time you saw a foreign language porn flick with subtitles? One doesn't really need to understand the language to follow the plot line in a porn flick. And their stage direction is mostly just:
    In!
    Out.
    In!
    Out.
    In!
    Out.
    In!
    Out.
    Actor 1 moans...

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:The 'net is pull, not push, technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless the stage directions include:
      Poop.
      Eat!

      "Come mi mierda... Si, en tu baca, mas, mas!"

      2girls1cup ftw!

      If the US wants to discourage Iranians from using anticensorship software, they would need to include some sort of backdoor to redirect all google queries with the keywords "middle east woman naked" to goatse.cz... or mfxvideo.com... or urineforatreat.com...

    2. Re:The 'net is pull, not push, technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When was the last time you saw a foreign language porn flick with subtitles?

      That would be Czech or Eastern European films for the English market. For the German market they are dubbed badly into German by middle aged men. :-(

    3. Re:The 'net is pull, not push, technology by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      I find your intimate knowledge of some of the most disgusting content on the internet rather disturbing. In fact, I would appreciate it if you would post your browsers logs, so that firewall admins can add all the URLs on them to their blacklist.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    4. Re:The 'net is pull, not push, technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Especially given that Obama doesn't speak Farsi.

      Oh yes, he can http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXSJYyv9Dl0 @ 03:18 :-)

  14. Great Idea, but Wait 4 Years Please by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 1, Insightful

    'Suppose we have the capacity to make it possible for the president of the United States at will to communicate with hundreds of thousands of Iranians at no risk or limited risk?

    For what purpose? So he can apologize?

    1. Re:Great Idea, but Wait 4 Years Please by Shads · · Score: 0

      Bush isn't president anymore.

      --
      Shadus
    2. Re:Great Idea, but Wait 4 Years Please by qbzzt · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes "I'm sorry we didn't prevent the Islamic revolution in 1979".

      --
      -- Support a free market in the field of government
    3. Re:Great Idea, but Wait 4 Years Please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No, to apologize for blowhards like you

      2-3M Iranians died in the Iran-Iraq proxy war, where American chemical weapons were used and even encouraged, and that served no real purpose except to make arms manufacturers richer. Heck, they were even selling weapons to both sides to "sweeten the pot". It had nothing to do with Islam, or the Soviets : only profit.

      Any excuse will do! When people are no longer afraid of jihadists, the powers that be will figure out some new scare tactic to bring the sheep on board for another military adventure, probably invading some other defenseless country like Afghanistan or Iraq. Bunch of COWARDS.

      Your entire country should be put on trial. Voting for such Presidents again and again makes you responsible. Yes, even people who didn't vote for Bush are responsible for his actions. When your country invades another and kills hundreds of thousands of people -- FOR PROFIT, you all deserve sanctions for allowing it to happen, and shielding those responsible.

    4. Re:Great Idea, but Wait 4 Years Please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      Did you just pick a random early high-rated post and reply to it?

      Thought so.

    5. Re:Great Idea, but Wait 4 Years Please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you all deserve sanctions for allowing it to happen, and shielding those responsible.

      There is no need for you to use extreme language and extreme conclusions to get our attention. This is the same tactic George Bush used. Drama queen.

    6. Re:Great Idea, but Wait 4 Years Please by plague3106 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, even people who didn't vote for Bush are responsible for his actions.

      Oh, that makes sense. I suppose you should be charged for murder, because I'm sure one happened.. and you're responsible for your government NOT protecting its citizens.

    7. Re:Great Idea, but Wait 4 Years Please by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "I'm sorry we didn't prevent the Islamic revolution in 1979... ... by not overthrowing your democratic government in 1953."

      I agree, that would be a nice place to start.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    8. Re:Great Idea, but Wait 4 Years Please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your entire country should be put on trial. Voting for such Presidents again and again makes you responsible. Yes, even people who didn't vote for Bush are responsible for his actions. When your country invades another and kills hundreds of thousands of people -- FOR PROFIT, you all deserve sanctions for allowing it to happen, and shielding those responsible.

      Collective blame is a substitute for thinking.

    9. Re:Great Idea, but Wait 4 Years Please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      [quote]2-3M Iranians died in the Iran-Iraq proxy war, where American chemical weapons were used and even encouraged, and that served no real purpose except to make arms manufacturers richer. Heck, they were even selling weapons to both sides to "sweeten the pot". It had nothing to do with Islam, or the Soviets : only profit.[/quote]

      Germany was the largest provider of chemical weapons to Iraq for many, many years. Including during the Iran-Iraq war. As it turns out, there aren't many G20 countries that escape blame for being weapons dealers. So before you go pointing the finger solely at America, remember that there's a lot of these sons-of-bitches in your home country. Think globally, act locally.

    10. Re:Great Idea, but Wait 4 Years Please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      How is this insightful? The poster is claiming that everybody in a country is guilty by proxy, or by association. This is no different than the Islamic fundamentalists bitching about every single American, and every Christian fundamentalist bitching about every single atheist.

      So, whatever your neighbor did today, you are responsible for.

      How exactly is this insightful?

    11. Re:Great Idea, but Wait 4 Years Please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because of his righteous anger at America. Haven't you heard? They're apologizing for everything now, ever.

    12. Re:Great Idea, but Wait 4 Years Please by Aetrus · · Score: 1

      AND you're also responsible for letting the horrible ichy no good good very bad US start nonsense wars.

      How DARE you not stop the US from invading Iraq. Coward. No worse then a coward, you're a NINNY!

  15. What about the other countries? by sbrown123 · · Score: 4, Informative

    No mention of the U.K., Germany, or Australia which are also implementing blocking technologies? Very western of us to ignore the other supposed free countries.

    1. Re:What about the other countries? by Burkin · · Score: 1

      But those people who want to bypass those filters are just trying to score child porn and do eviiiiiiiiiiiil terrorist things.

    2. Re:What about the other countries? by mrops · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, you got it all wrong.

      UK, Australia and Germany are doing it for the good of the people, if the government wouldn't protect them, then who will?

      China and Iran on the other hand are suppressing freedom and liberty.

      Will someone think of the children!

  16. Help We're Under Attack! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Our people are speaking freely!

  17. Falun Gong a spiritual movement ? by rs232 · · Score: 1

    "the Falun Gong, a spiritual movement that has been suppressed by the Chinese government since 1999"

    Falun Gong. Do we need yet another weird cult added to the very long list of those already available. Something for everyone. What was wrong with the weird cults of yesteryear? Long live Mao and down with hegemony of running dogs for western capitalists exploiters.

    --
    davecb5620@gmail.com
  18. Obviously, this won't work... by denelson83 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...in North Korea, where the Internet is simply prohibited altogether.

  19. So that's the sound that . . . by StefanJ · · Score: 1

    . . . free market sophistry makes when you stretch it almost to the breaking point.

    This comparison is NONSENSE. TOA details a case of a counter culture's home-brew counter measures being used to get around state censorship. It's not like Iranians went to Best Buy to buy a copy of Freedom Industries' new app.

    Not every problem in the world is amenable to "free market" solutions. Deal with it.

    1. Re:So that's the sound that . . . by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Not every problem in the world is amenable to "free market" solutions. Deal with it.

      I disagree, just about every single problem in the world is amendable with free market solutions, but usually the markets are not free enough. If Iran was a 100% free market economy, we wouldn't have this problem because ISPs would route around the government's servers. Problems that can't be solved with a free market solution are few and far between.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:So that's the sound that . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Problems that can't be solved with a nuclear solution are few and far between.

      There, fixed it for you. Yes, free market is fantastic - it is the only system that will solve (almost) all of the problems that crop up. Unfortunately, those solutions often have unacceptable collateral damage (massive unemployment/class divide, monopolies*, environmental rape, poor resource management, neglect of high risk/low return situations, neglect of investments with no immediate returns, etc). In this instance, you're saying "a free-market Iran would have private companies breaking the law (bypassing censors)" - but where does this line of thinking end? A free market allows for, nay, encourages hit-men, for example. Do you want to live in a world where free market can decide which laws it should respect?

      * And no, don't even try and pretend that monopolies are impossible in a free market. Many industries are just begging for monopolies - those with large start-up-to-running-cost ratios, or those that rely on reputation (eg. Universities), or those competing over an extremely limited, controllable resource (eg. De Beers). Case in point - compare the US (one of the "freer" countries) telecom situation (price, speed, reliability, coverage) to any other developed nations' telecom situation. Given the US's position, importance and density, it should be a world leader in telecom, not mid-tier and rapidly deteriorating!

  20. Falun gong? Those suicidal ones? by McNihil · · Score: 2, Informative
    1. Re:Falun gong? Those suicidal ones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeh right, you're looking at a chinese communistic website. And you believe them?

      That self immolation, was a setup by the CCP only to frame Falun Gong. When you look at the pictures and look at the way they are sitting, you can see that they are not falun gong practioners. They sit like chinese militairy people, not like practioners...

      It has been explained totally in the movie false fire: http://www.falsefire.com/

    2. Re:Falun gong? Those suicidal ones? by Main+Gauche · · Score: 1

      Not to mention D&D and heavy metal music.

    3. Re:Falun gong? Those suicidal ones? by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      No matter how fucked up the Falun Gong religion is, (or how fucked up you are led to believe it is), it doesn't justify what the Chinese government is doing to them.

      There is a Holocaust going on, and the world isn't paying attention.

      Imagine if the US gov't rounded up all Mormons and started selling their organs.

    4. Re:Falun gong? Those suicidal ones? by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      A news article published by the People's Daily is proof?

    5. Re:Falun gong? Those suicidal ones? by inviolet · · Score: 1

      From google cache:

      http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:d3NzsFRIiU4J:english.peopledaily.com.cn/200103/20/eng20010320_65533.html+falun+gong+suicides&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

      IMHO Some things should be outlawed.

      You are more wrong about this issue than can be excused as innocent error.

      So, *plonk*. I'm done listening to you, at least in this life.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    6. Re:Falun gong? Those suicidal ones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can actually see that happening within the next decade.

    7. Re:Falun gong? Those suicidal ones? by Sinbios · · Score: 1

      You're claiming that it's more likely that some Chinese soldiers burned themselves to death to frame some crazy cultists?

      --
      Anyone can "stand up for what they believe", but it takes a very brave individual to change what they believe. - Loundry
    8. Re:Falun gong? Those suicidal ones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'll find that all the claims of suicide etc. with regard to Falun Gong come from the Chinese Communist Party. None of the claims are verified, or are even allowed to be verified. People who have looked into the persecution of Falun Gong in China have been persecuted themselves. There is, for instance, the human rights lawyer Gao Zhisheng, who was tortured for fifty days for his attempt to defend Falun Gong practitioners in China's legal system. He had electrodes put onto his genitals and he was beaten unconscious many times. Read about it: http://www.freegao.com/

  21. That's great news for Iranian Muslims! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now they can use upcoming.com to find out about stonings of women that have been raped and use craigslist to sell off their eight-year-old kids to 50-year-old men like the Muslim men in countries without Internet censorship...

  22. Radio free world by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's funny how certain kinds of people praise the defiance of authority like this but admonish those who defeat filters in school to access controversial information. They force their public schools and libraries to install buggy censorware which has been demonstrated time and time again to block legitimate but incorrectly categorized information.

    Heck, the Australian and German governments filter their entire countries, for ostentatious "think of the children" reasons, but all it takes is a flip of a switch for it to go political. Neither country historically has much of a problem with certain kinds of political censorship.

    How long ago was it that we had Republicans telling us to watch what we say?

    We need a pan-national dedication to transparency and the free flow of information. The people who scream about Iranian and Chinese injustice the loudest are also some of the worst censors at home. The free world won't be until we hold our own people accountable.

    1. Re:Radio free world by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      It's funny how certain kinds of people praise the defiance of authority like this but admonish those who defeat filters in school to access controversial information.

      Indeed it is. A sword can be a useful tool whether it is wielded by a patriot, a terrorist, a hero, or a tyrant. People who advocate for censorship and I say censorship NOT reasonable restraints (i.e. no porno billboard in sight of the elementary school) are being foolish or un-American or both.

      The people who scream about Iranian and Chinese injustice the loudest are also some of the worst censors at home.

      It is frequently the case that those who seek most fervently to ban, censor, and demonize are often themselves guilty of the same "crimes" for which they are so quick to condemn others. This has been shown time and again (i.e. the homophobic firebrand who is himself an "in the closet" homosexual) with numerous politicians, actors, and others who live their lives in the public eye.

    2. Re:Radio free world by PMuse · · Score: 1

      U.S. government support for circumvention software must stop! A top to bottom review must be initiated and the responsible officials sacked and prosecuted!! Won't some one think of the children?!!!

      --
      "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
    3. Re:Radio free world by bar-agent · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's funny how certain kinds of people praise the defiance of authority like this but admonish those who defeat filters in school to access controversial information. They force their public schools and libraries to install buggy censorware which has been demonstrated time and time again to block legitimate but incorrectly categorized information.

      It's a damn shame that the press doesn't call out hypocritical policies. I know why, of course. If a reporter asks too many awkward questions, he isn't invited to the next press conference. But still, a damn shame.

      --
      i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
  23. No by copponex · · Score: 1

    The market is only effective at maximizing profit, regardless of the consequences for human rights, or the environment, or whatever.

    For instance, if there's a market for selling drugs that kill people for enormous profit, the market will kill people, buy off scientists to claim that their product does not kill people, buy politicians who will support their operations, and sell those drugs to children in countries where there is no effective legislation. If you think that petrochemicals, genetically modified crops, pharmaceuticals, growth hormones, soft drinks, and fast food franchises are any different than cigarettes, I think you're completely naive.

    Just like a democracy functions only with a check against corruption with a strong and critical news media, markets only function with a strong and legitimate regulatory body that checks against greed and exploitation of irreplaceable resources.

    Corporatism and unregulated markets are tyrannical. The people with the most money control society with near impunity, a fact they forget to mention in Econ 101 when they talk about voting with your dollars.

  24. Cyberwar - just more newspeak if you ask me by ensiferius · · Score: 0

    It's ironic that the Times article quotes Orwell.

    "Blocking such groups has become more insidious as Internet filtering technology has grown more sophisticated. As with George Orwell's "Newspeak," the language in "1984" that got smaller each year, governments can block particular words or phrases without users realizing their Internet searches are being censored."

    A couple of years ago the Times did another story on how The Voice of America has been engaged in creating newspeak: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/31/washington/31voice.html

    "Using a 1,500-word vocabulary and short, simple phrases" Oh and don't forget to add some good old fashioned censorship. "A 1948 law prohibits Voice of America from broadcasting in the United States"

    But some listeners, like Ali Asqar Khandan, 36, an assistant professor from Tehran, said Special English seemed like "a special program for advertising American life and culture, not a simple radio station for broadcasting news or teaching English."

    No need to broadcast it here anyway.

    We'll let you know what should and should not be censored thank you very much.

    Can somebody please pass the kool-aid?

    --
    "Oh drat, these computers, they're so naughty and so complex." Marvin the Martian
  25. this is so cool by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1

    well done Falun Gong and Iranian geeks.

  26. Bah by bikehorn · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    'Suppose we have the capacity to make it possible for the president of the United States at will to communicate with hundreds of thousands of Iranians at no risk or limited risk? It just changes the world.'

    What a pathetic example of typical Western arrogance. The usual "America is the best place in the world and everyone should want to be like us" bullshit. Fuck off and learn your place in the world already...what exactly is any Western leader going to say to the Irani population that would "change the world" ? Iranis are using anti-censorship tech to get access to information they want, which doesn't happen to be your propaganda message. Maybe you conveniently forgot but they still vividly remember how the US financed and supplied Saddam's war against Iran in which biological and chemical weapons were used. How about lifting your sanctions and shutting your hypocritcal cakehole about state sponsored terrorism when America supports Saudi Arabia and Israel, the two REAL biggest state sponsors of terrorism? Those actions would speak a lot louder than some pointless, hollow two minute webcast. That won't happen however...as they need both Saudi oil and the Jewish vote. For the US government, those two things are, figuratively speaking, as addictive and judgement-clouding as heroin.

    1. Re:Bah by Erie+Ed · · Score: 1

      This really shouldn't be modded flamebait, if anything it should be interesting because he brings up a lot of valid points.

  27. does Iran seriously censor Obama? by eean · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I seriously doubt the Iranians censor much in the way of non-pornographic English material.

    1. Re:does Iran seriously censor Obama? by Scannerman · · Score: 1

      I seriously doubt the Iranians censor much in the way of non-pornographic English material.

      I was at a conference in Tehran a few months ago, attitudes are much more liberal than you would expect. There was some internet censorship which i checked out fairly thoroughly, - most porn sites (The intention is obviously everything, but its not 100%), some torrent sites (No copyright law there so you can get anything for a few dollars in the shops anyway), and social networking sites like facebook, also youtube etc. I was staying in a very small hotel, So I'm sure it was the same as everyone else gets.

      I didn't find any problems with any mainstream news sites.

      I also didn't find any black holes - whenever anything was blocked a notice came up in Farsi and English with details of how to contact them if i felt something should or shouldn't be blocked.

      I also found that I could VPN back home to get to anything that was blocked.

      In contrast the access in Dubai was much more limited, and where I was staying I couldn't use a VPN.
       

    2. Re:does Iran seriously censor Obama? by bgeer · · Score: 1

      You are seriously wrong. I was there 6 weeks ago, and it seems that to me that the whole system is driven by butthurt and they p. much filter any site that has ever said anything mean about Iran.
      From memory, blocked sites included:
      michellemalkin.com - because she says mean things about Iran
      apnews.myway.com - because the AP wire service is part of a counterrevolutionary monarchist conspiracy
      openvpn.org - because VPN is for terrorists

  28. More death to America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    After downloading videos of Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Michael Jackson and the Octomom, Iranians will probably turn off their computers and go outside to continue their "Death to America" chant!

  29. Re:Falun gong? Those suicidal ones? (not) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We're not really going with what's published in the "People's Daily", are we? That's exactly why this software needs to exist in the first place.

    Falun Gong teaches against killing and against suicide. The Chinese communist party pumps out stories saying whatever serves their agenda. Google "False Fire" and catch up on that one.

  30. Re:Falun Gong a spiritual movement ? (in fact) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Chinese communist party has gone to every length to make the western world consider Falun Gong as strange/dangerous. Is it working? China has a very long history of spiritual teachings from the Buddhist school, and Falun Gong has adhered to non violence in the face of torture/killing for 10 years. I, for one, am ready to support human rights and freedom of belief for anyone who's not harming other people in the process, and Falun Gong has been exemplary in this regard. Look it up.

  31. China uses Falun Gong as organs by Khashishi · · Score: 1

    Here is a speech by David Matas and David Kilgour (July 6, 2006) about their research that confirms that China has been using Falun Gong practitioners as organ inventory.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkf2u1Umzi4

  32. Cake and eat it too by ACMENEWSLLC · · Score: 1

    So here is the deal. In the US I am responsible for the action users on my company Internet and Computers do. If someone hits an adult site, or even something simple as a tasteless joke can get me in trouble. If someone sneaks content onto a work PC, I am responsible. That is USA Law and/or case law.

    So the category anonymous Internet is blocked.

    So if the US gets behind bypass technology such as this, where do I sit? If a person on my network bypasses my Internet filtering by using sanction USA bypass technology and puts illegal/questionable content on his PC and a co worker is offend, who is legally responsible? I am, of course.

  33. Interesting, but risky by cdrguru · · Score: 1

    In China most Falun Gong supporters just get harrassed and maybe jailed.

    Iran tends to just execute people by rather brutal methods.

  34. Falun Gong Association? I call Shame! by earlymon · · Score: 1

    There appears to me to be a whole lot of "Validity by Association" going on here.

    I looked up Global Information Freedom, Inc. - and I'm having trouble finding this close association so noted in TFSummary. Clearly, GIFInc, is very concerned about the Great Firewall - but here's the only Falun Gong reference that I could find - http://www.internetfreedom.org/The-High-Tech-Persecution-of-Falun-Gong-in-China (which seems to cover a helluva lot more than the Falun Gong).

    The Falun Gong has become the darling political football around here - note House Resolution 794, June 12, 2006, called for the PRC to square away human rights abuses and cited the Falun Gong. Note also, FWIW, my first awareness of the Falun Gong was from the Wall Street Journal - at a time when I was spending most all of my time in Asia. Interestingly, or may I say not-surprisingly, the WSJ's quotes are reference material for Congress - note the following study: http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/RL33437.pdf

    So - Iranians are behind a firewall and there's software to help.

    I'm not pleased with the summary - unless there's some actual evidence linking Global Information Freedom, Inc with the Falun Gong - real linking, i.e., GIFInc is funded by Falun Gong or is the Falun Gong's internet mouthpiece, then I call not only shenanigans but also shame:

    Don't Iranians have enough fucking trouble without being linked to the Falun Gong? Was there a need for this sensationalism and association?

    Is the issue that Iranians suffer censorship? Or that the censorship can be broken - the Great Firewall experience applies here?

    Or, is the issue that we need to mention an entirely different and completely controversial belief system to sell mindshares?

    I apologize in advance if I'm wrong about the Global Information Freedom, Inc crowd - but that apology is provisional upon proof of the linking claim, which I have yet to find.

    --
    Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
    1. Re:Falun Gong Association? I call Shame! by forcotton · · Score: 1

      mod parent insightful if I have any mod point. I wish someday there is a propaganda filtering program. Along with ad, spam filter, I wonder how much of Internet is left. Yes I know there will be a lot of porn.

  35. Iranians blocked by the software now by kalirion · · Score: 1

    The last sentence of the article:

    As for the Falun Gong software, it proved a little too popular among Iranians. By the end of last year the consortium's computers were overwhelmed. On Jan. 1, the consortium had to do some blocking of its own: It shut down the service for all countries except China.

  36. I was in Iran 6 weeks ago and by bgeer · · Score: 3, Informative

    Breaking their firewall is really nothing to brag about, it took me about 5 minutes to ssh into my server in the US and apt-get tinyproxy. As far as I could tell they make no effort to block proxies at all.

  37. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Holy Crap! Except for the "FreeGate/DWeb Tech Support" link, all other supports forums for their products are being spammed with pr0n pics by the same forum troll. LOL

    Look near the bottom for the english support links:

    http://www.internetfreedom.org/node/66

  38. Subject lines do not want by Trillian_1138 · · Score: 1

    to be used for starting sentences (or paragraphs) that are continued in the body of the post.

    (Which isn't to say I disagree with your post, I just really dislike the habit of starting a sentence or a thought in the subject line...It makes for more a more confusing, disjointed reading of the post.)

    -Trillian

  39. Proxy aren't good enough by renoX · · Score: 1

    If I understand correctly all this software do is use several proxy which are then used to browse filtered website.
    The problem AFAIK is that those who filter the web could get the proxy list and track the IP address of those who connect to the proxys and then these user would have *nasty* question to answer..

    So this solution isn't very anonymous, a better scheme would be to hide the traffic on encrypted connections with 'normal' website, but this would require the server to be used as a relay..

  40. Some changes in foreign policy. by tjstork · · Score: 1

    On the surface one would think that increased relations between two dictatorships would result in less freedom for both peoples. But instead, contacts with the Chinese have benefited dissident groups in both countries immensely.

    This leads to some interesting ideas. Maybe when these dictators have their lovefests, we might encourage them rather than discourage them, as, it does force those countries to open up to at least -somebody-. Thus, putting and keeping pressure on the likes of Iran and Venezuala while actively encouraging democracies underneath seems to remain a good foreign policy.

    Then, in the case of Iran, if it is dissidents were talking about, and democracy that we support...

    WHY THE HELL DOESN'T THE USA HAVE WIRELESS HOTSPOTS RUNNING FREE ON THE IRANIAN BORDER? IN FACT, WHY AREN'T WE COVERTLY RUNNING OUR OWN INTERNET INTO IRAN?

    (well maybe we are and the whole Falun Gong thing is a cover story)

    but if not.

    We paid for freedom in the middle east with 5000 lives and billions of dollars. I would think that if there are groups in Iran yearning to breath free, then, here is a clear example of where the USA should support them.

    We should just be sending truckloads of internet satellite modems across the border to Iran.

    --
    This is my sig.
  41. Invasion Imminent! by Gallomimia · · Score: 1

    Let's invade them! They're pirating software!
    What's that? Everyone thinks that's good??

    ...
    Let's invade them! They're censoring the internet!

    --
    Sadly, a Libertarian cannot force his views on another, and freedom cannot spread as does the cancer known as religion.
  42. "We" making political changes "there"? by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

    The faster we can get a strong secular leader in power there

    I would assume that the words would go together like this: "we ~ here" (if you were in Iran) or "they ~ there" (if you were to leave Iranian matters to the Iranian people).

    Oh well...

  43. Naive propaganda by jandersen · · Score: 1

    Sometimes I just want to hang my head and cry, when I see this kind of crap. Really. I mean, just describing Falun Gong as "a spiritual movement that has been suppressed by the Chinese government since 1999" - do you know what they stand for? What they do and what consequences it has had? Just because they preach about peace and morality doesn't mean that they are guaranteed to be entirely kosher; words are cheap and you can buy that kind of things canned from any competent advertising agency. At least, check things out thoroughly before you begin to put your stamp of approval on them and use them in your propaganda - I think you will find Falun Gong are somewhat less idyllic than you imagine; like most modern "religions" it is simply a money-making scam, playing in their propaganda on the habitual American distrust of any government in general and the Chinese one in particular. In short, don't be a useful idiot.

    But back to the topic: the use of "circumvention technology" - I think there are two concerns to address here. One is the question of who made it - can you trust them? Falun Gong are not necessarily the bright eyed idealists they'd like you to think - there is a lot of money involved, for one thing, which always rings my alarm bells. And the US government is involved too, we hear - the very people that I always hear are nothing but the lowest scum (funny, really, when you think about it, the the Americans always elect the lowest scum for office); people you wouldn't trust as far as you could throw them. I wonder if their "circumvention technology" might contain backdoors and other nice things that could make it easy for them to track you?

    The other concern is how much it actually is worth, sneaking out in anonymity? Amongst the things that are glaringly obvious are that this kind of SW certainly help criminals avoid the law; and of course, you can more easily access things like crappy porn or anti-government propaganda. What it can't guarantee is that you get access to good, reliable information or that you are able to understand what you find, and it won't help you much in changing society. In fact, I think it may well wor in the opposite direction - if you are against the government, you sneak around in a fashion that makes it easy for the government to say "Look, he was a criminal", which will in the end harm the cause you say you are working for. Secret societies and subversive underground movements all play into the hands of a repressive government - the only way to really effect a change is by doing so in the open, by showing that you are better and more trustworthy than the government. And, yes, that is sometimes dangerous, that is the nature of the game, unfortunately.

    Of course, the US government or their more or less secret state agencies have a long history of stirring up discontent in countries they can't control in a more direct way. It is a well-known secret that CIA agents were involved in whipping up the sentiments before the Tiananmen incident, something that strangely enough doesn't get much press in the West. This kind of things is what really keeps conflicts brewing for ages, long after they would normally have died out or found a peaceful solution. As I see it, it is idiotic - in the end it is bound to hurt American interests.