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Chicago Tribune Reporters Don't Want Readers' Pre-Approval

theodp writes "Irked by the Marketing department's solicitation of subscribers' opinions on stories before they were published, 55 reporters and editors at the Chicago Tribune signed an e-mail demanding the practice be stopped. 'It is a fundamental principle of journalism that we do not give people outside the newspaper the option of deciding whether or not we should publish a story, whether they be advertisers, politicians or just regular readers,' the e-mail read."

30 of 176 comments (clear)

  1. Somethings fishy here... by fractalVisionz · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hey, I didn't approve this story, why was it released?

  2. Their marketing people are idiots. by EWAdams · · Score: 4, Insightful

    WTF do they think a newspaper is for? The minute you try to "democratize" is, politicians and PR types will try to game the system to make sure that only stories beneficial to them will get published.

    --
    I piss off bigots.
    1. Re:Their marketing people are idiots. by aztektum · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are there many non-PR types in "journalism" these days anyway?

      --
      :: aztek ::
      No sig for you!!
    2. Re:Their marketing people are idiots. by jmorris42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > The minute you try to "democratize" is, politicians and PR types will try to game the system...

      Too late, the politicians and PR types are already gaming the system.

      Do I think stories in newspapers should be blindly moderated like slashdot comments? Oh hell no. But getting some outside feedback into the editorial loop certainly can't hurt a system to obviously broken. So yes, if the editors see a very negative reaction to a story they should take a look at WHY teh readers are saying ixnay on it, take a look into their complaint and see if they have a point. There should be a human editor in the loop though, if nothing else to stop the Colbert troll army, the 4chan troll army, etc.

      Which of course brings me back to something I have said many times on many forums including this one. This is all moot because for the most part human editors NO LONGER EXIST. We all have this mental picture of the grizzled old editor ruthlessly marking up the poor reporter's copy and throwing it back to him for a rewrite. But they went out during the rounds of endless belt tightening in the MSM over the past decades. Look at the NYT, CNN, any major news website. Don't look at their blogs, look only at the real news copy. Bet you find a groaner spelling or grammer error within ten minutes even if you read at a below average speed. And if you read an article in a area where you know poo from shinola you will find a factual error in almost every story these days. And everyone interviewed will say at least one of their quotes got mangled between their mouth and the final copy. So much for the fresh faced right out college interns doing fact checking and following up on double checking the quotes. All that is gone. The average newspaper or TV network journalism is about as accurate as the better blogs. And increasingly the blogs are doing a better job because the blogs will mercilessly fact check each other.

      If somebody could get a real old fashioned news organization back in the game I can't help but believe there is enough pent up demand for real journalism that it would find a revenue stream somehow. Ya know, journalism: where you report who did what, where and why they did it. Reported in depth, with extensive quotes and background and every quote and fact checked with a high enough accuracy rate to quickly gain a reputation as the fracking Voice of God. Then leave the opinions and analysis to the talking heads on cable news shows and blogs.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    3. Re:Their marketing people are idiots. by schnell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are there many non-PR types in "journalism" these days anyway?

      Yes! Actual journalists - as in the people who write the news stories that you read in a newspaper or online, hear on the radio or ... maybe ... see on TV - are actually highly dedicated professionals who (for the most part) care deeply about truth and accuracy. Spokespeople, flacks, talking heads and gibbering mouthpieces like Rush Limbaugh, Keith Olbermann etc. are not journalists and represent a very tiny fraction of the "journalism" industry; they are just more visible, especially if you only watch TV news and don't read a newspaper.

      Don't let the fact that FOX News is 99% eye candy or asinine talking heads fool you, since 99% of actual news published comes from real professional journalists. And these selfsame people you disparage are among the very best guarantors of your constitutional liberties and right to know what your government is up to.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
  3. Re:In other words by Kligat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "As long as they get to over-hype whatever story they want"

    Isn't the idea of overhyping based on whoring out integrity to whatever sells, which would be the opposite of what is going on here? Just why are they overhyping if they aren't doing it for ratings?

  4. Re:In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I read it the other way. Basically, if we just follow what the majority want, then many stories that appeal to minority groups will be snuffed out. I can't speak for this newspaper, as I have never read it. If they are already just trying to provide sensational titles, with very little actual content, then sure, they don't care about the stories and are just about lining their wallets.

  5. Re:Reason #9883459 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They're not selling the newspaper, they're selling ad space. The paper isn't the product, you're the product.

  6. Re:In other words by 5865 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why should the reporters care what you think of their stories? They're here to report, not to butter you up.

    If I want news report that aims to please the masses, I'll go watch Fox News.

  7. Re:In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's the evil liberal media conspiracy, trying to suppress the truth of Obama's evil! Where can I sign up for your newsletter?

  8. In other votes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "In other words, the reporters don't care what the readers think of their stories."

    The readers indicate their care by either purchasing or not purchasing the newspaper.

  9. Re:In other words by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In other words, the reporters don't care what the readers think of their stories. As long as they get to over-hype whatever story they want (a brown nose Obama story, or a effusive global warming rant), they don't care if nobody wants to buy the paper.

    I read it as the reporters wanting to publish news, rather that was fits best with the marketing.

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  10. In Other News by Chlorine+Trifluoride · · Score: 4, Funny

    The Tribune's expose on Anonymous will not be published, after receiving 50 billion no votes.

  11. Re:In other words by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or perhaps they have things to say that people don't necessarily want to hear or believe.

  12. Re:In other words by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And I read it as the reporters using the idea that you just said to accomplish what the parent suspects. They're smart enough to know that that is a very real drawback to the plan, but they ought to be smart enough to take the feedback and do something with it.

    It might be a case of readers collectively wanting to suppress something, but it might also be a case of readers wanting information about something else and wanting resources to be freed to get that information.

    --
    Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  13. Trust in Editorial Decisions Must Be Rebuilt by ewhac · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Unless and until the reporters and editors of the Chicago Tribune are prepared to denounce the "reporting" of flagrantly biased "news" organizations, unless they are prepared to say, "We are not like them. We are better than them, and here's how we're going to continue to be better than them..." Then I'm afraid they're going to have to accept the necessity of someone looking over their shoulder, checking their work.

    This "review" process is already taking place -- it's why subscriptions are falling off a cliff. The product is crap, the readers know it's crap, which is why they're not buying it. Solution: Stop printing crap.

    Clearly, their feedback mechanism has gotten seriously out of tune. I think also that they recognize this, and that the idea of allowing direct reader feedback on stories in the queue was born out of some desperation to correct their editorial priorities.

    Here's a hint: Try to keep ideology at bay, and follow the facts wherever they take you. Yes, it's often uncomfortable. I imagine Woodward and Bernstein had many sleepless nights. Yet we are the better for their work. Emulate that. Oh, and spike any "story" about Paris Hilton.

    Schwab

  14. Re:Can't figure out who else might do this .. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, it's not just having your readers decide the content. It's a stupid marketing idea from people who don't understand the Internet.

    Let's say there is some public corruption by a popular political figure. Should an organized group of partisan poll voters be able to spike the story just because they don't want to hear something bad?

    If you remember the purpose of newspapers, and journalists generally is to "Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable" you'll understand why you really don't want readers to be able to choose which stories get published any more than you want some multi-national corporation that owns the media outlet to squash a story that shows one of its cronies in a bad light.

    Can we agree that not all "Social Network" ideas are worthwhile just because they happen to involve the Internet?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  15. Re:Can't figure out who else might do this .. by digitig · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you remember the purpose of newspapers, and journalists generally is to "Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable"

    Goodness, you have a long memory! For as long as I can remember, the purpose of newspapers has been "Make as much money as you can, by any means you can get away with".

    --
    Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
  16. Re:Can't figure out who else might do this .. by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ..yeah, but there's a niche in the market for an honest news-reporting newspaper, which they've settled into nicely in Chicago. If they start going pop then they'll find themselves competing with tabloids for less money. It's in their interest to stay quality.

  17. Re:Can't figure out who else might do this .. by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you remember the purpose of newspapers, and journalists generally is to "Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable"

    And here I was thinking it was to "Report the news."

    I guess that's why my newspaper subscription expired last week.

  18. Re:Arrogant Out of Touch Dolts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You, sir, are an idiot.

  19. Re:In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Exactly!

    Now, I'm sure the Tribune's marketeers will whine like crazy that their subscription readership numbers are declining. I'm sure they are - I'm a subscriber to their South Florida Sun-Sentinel, whose overall page count has been dropping like a rock the last 2 years. Comic strips have been dropped to save space, the financial pages are now a single page of pure drivel, and the list goes on.

    What they need to realize is that, yes, we the computer-literate can read the same AP or Reuters articles to our hearts' content (and perhaps beyond...) the night before. *BUT* we (or, at least, I) am relying on the reporters and the editors/managers to make sure that there is some sort of local perspective/analysis knitted into the story that appears in print. And, I'm also hoping that the editors will suppress some of the (very) rough drafts of local stories that I have seen on the Sun-Sentinel's web site the night before, that would make any high school English teacher scream in terror, and make us wait until the final version that appears in print. A teaser headline with a graf or two of bare-bones facts is fine, but some of the other crap that's made it to the web (but, thankfully, fell onto the composing room floor) was just that - pure crap.
    (And I mean poorly-phrased, inconsistent subject/verb relations, etc.). I'm a EE, not an English major, and I could probably do better than some of the clowns they had on the beat.

  20. What a "popular" newspaper would look like by metrometro · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What a democratically decided newspaper would put on the front page today (via Yahoo search traffic):

    Swine Flu
    Christina Applegate
    American Idol
    Kristie Alley
    Jon and Kate Plus Eight
    Sarah Jessica Parker
    Twitter
    Hi-5
    Lady Gaga
    NBA

    Source: http://buzzlog.buzz.yahoo.com/overall/

    Three observations:

    1) There are media outlets that cover pretty much exactly this list. Good for them. I don't read those and never will. I question their contribution to democracy.

    2) I get news from a variety of social media filters, and almost none of the information I get from these very useful selection processes are from this list (the flu outbreak is the exception). That's not to say that my information is better than yours - just that it's what I happen to want.

    3) Therefore: A more useful "democracy" strategy might be to help readers select from the vast array of information coming out of organizations like the Tribune and put that on the "front page" akin to Amazon's personalized homepage metrics.

    As a journalist, I will say that allowing anyone outside the organization to spike a story pre-publication opens to the door wide open to self-censorship. Critical journalism requires independence, or it becomes PR. Critical journalism is rare enough as it is without this.

  21. Re:"The News" is supposed to be a historical recor by erroneus · · Score: 4, Informative

    I once worked for the Dallas Observer, a largely editorial news weekly rag. The music editor wrote an opinion piece that stated things largely as he saw them. It insulted, in some way, one of the paper's advertisers. The music editor lost his job as the advertiser would accept nothing less.

    This is a true tragedy in the world of journalism. The editorial and sales sides are always at odds with one another, but I have never seen editorial win... not ever.

    To their credit, the journalists at that paper truly work in the spirit that the press is supposed to work under. I have witnessed the animosity first-hand. But too often, money wins.

  22. Re:Can't figure out who else might do this .. by evanbd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's the goal of the owners and marketers. I suspect most reporters hold with the older ideals. And take a look at who implemented this idea, and who spoke out against it...

  23. Re:Can't figure out who else might do this .. by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you want Fair and Balanced (tm), get two newspapers with diametrally different interests and orientations. Read them both. Then make up your mind, based on two conflicting lies.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  24. There's a reason they call it the Fourth Estate by raddan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and that reason is that journalism is essential to the proper functioning of democracy. Without it, the populace will not be informed of the inner workings of the government. As history has shown-- and we only know about these things because of journalists, who have often risked their lives for the greater good-- the government needs to be constantly watched. Watching the government is a heck of a lot easier than refreshing the tree of liberty from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants (to paraphrase Jefferson). We wouldn't even know about things like Watergate, the Pentagon Papers, Abu Ghraib, the current torture discussion, without inquisitive journalists.

    The 1st Amendment was first for a reason. Ever wonder why?

  25. Re:Can't figure out who else might do this .. by jcr · · Score: 5, Informative

    For as long as I can remember, the purpose of newspapers has been "Make as much money as you can, by any means you can get away with".

    There was a period before that, when the purpose of any newspaper was to advocate a political agenda. Every party or movement had its own newspaper, and they were quite up front about where they were coming from.

    This idea of the "impartial" journalist was mostly a 20th-century affectation.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  26. Re:In other words by spasm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think the problem most reporters have is that they have a big struggle to get their editors to let them cover almost *anything* beyond a 3 column inch piece about something on the police blotter. The idea of adding yet another layer of `approval' to any story they're interested in doing real work on is enough to make them want to shoot themselves. ``I'm sorry Jane, the plebs have voted down your investigative report on the financial links between city council members and that corporation currently seeking exemption from planning processes - you'll need to toss the last two months work you've been doing on it. They voted up more stories about Britney.''

  27. Re:Can't figure out who else might do this .. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because, of course, the Monica Lewinsky scandal was worse than torture and phony wars.

    I'll see your "Isikoff" and raise you one Robert Novak doing the bidding of Vice President Cheney in outing a CIA officer because her husband dared to criticize the Bush Administration.

    Or Judith Miller acting on behalf of that same Bush Administration in printing Bush Administration press releases as "breaking news", leading to the War in Iraq.

    You wanna wave a president's adultery around after eight years of Bush? A significant majority of Americans would rather have a President getting blowjobs every day from a different woman rather than having to live through the last eight years again.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.