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Should Developers Be Liable For Their Code?

Glyn Moody writes "They might be, if a new European Commission consumer protection proposal, which suggests 'licensing should guarantee consumers the same basic rights as when they purchase a good: the right to get a product that works with fair commercial conditions,' becomes law. The idea of making Microsoft pay for the billions of dollars of damage caused by flaws in its products is certainly attractive, but where would this idea leave free software coders?"

12 of 517 comments (clear)

  1. Stupid Idea by Courageous · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The idea that code should be perfect is a stupid idea: consumers don't want that.

    They want "good enough," not perfect. Perfect costs a great deal of money, probably 4X, and consumers will buy the good enough product, at 1/4 of that price, well beyond 95% of the time.

    C//

  2. What if.. by Mastadex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Say a developer uses a number of 3rd party libraries (ie. Boost, TinyXML, etc), who will be pay damages if the program crashes in a bad way? The developer for not trying to catch 3rd party crashes, or the 3rd party for writing in bad code?

    --
    A morning without coffee is like something without something else.
    1. Re:What if.. by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The one who sells the given product. This is all about sale.

      If my harddrive breaks within warranty period, I don't go to the company who manufactured the silicon or the ICs, I go to the retailer or Samsung, who sold me the drive.

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
  3. Only if they get final say on release of the code. by GuyverDH · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Until the coders get total control of the project, from inception to completion, then no, they cannot be held responsible for bugs in the code.
    How many companies push to get code out the door with *imperfections* - claiming they'll fix those in the first update?
    Too many these days.
    I'd say it's the management that controls the release schedules that should sign their names in blood on the bugs still known about (and unknown as testing probably wasn't allowed to complete).

    --
    Who is general failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
  4. Re:gpl comes with a license by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 4, Insightful

    you can sue a soup kitchen if it gives you food poisoning.

    Sure, since that's a public health matter. If software controlling an aircraft crashes and causes the aircraft to crash too and that kills people, I'm pretty sure the software makers might end up liable too.

    To continue your analogy, if a soup kitchen gives you soup that is too cold, comes in a plastic bowl and is too small of a portion, you've got nowhere to turn with that and you should have nowhere to turn with that, it is gratis after all. On the other hand, if this happens in a restaurant that calls itself high quality and advertises the famous chicken soup from a master chef and you get the same treatment, then there are numerous consumer protection agencies in Europe at least to fine the given restaurant.

    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
  5. The word: Purchase by MathFox · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Most EUropean countries have clauses in their laws that instruct the judge to take the price of the good into account when considering what would be a reasonable quality for a product. A corollary of that is when you give something away for free, the expected quality level is something like "not known harmful".
    When you buy software, for example a Linux distribution, you may expect that the distributor has tested the packages and that the software mostly works. Because you pay more for MacOS, you may just expect MacOS to work better.

    Off course there has to come jurisprudence on all this, but I don't think that finding just one bug will entitle you to your money back. However, when the software won't work at all for you, the supplier can not hide behind EULAs and could be forced to compensate your damages... It will be a case-by-case balancing of responsibilities.

    --
    extern warranty;
    main()
    {
    (void)warranty;
    }
  6. Licensing and Accredidation by iluvcapra · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If the EU wants higher-quality software, they should support an industry-wide system for the licensing and qualification of programmers, like we have for other engineering disciplines and professions. For example, they could require that all government software, or software for use in aircraft and life-critical functions. These developers wouldn't be "better" than anyone else, but they'd have taken an exam and be nominated by their peers, like a state bar.

    If the software is developed by professional developers with licenses, it gets a big seal on it, and then people can choose to buy it or not based on the rep of the licensing body, and their risk tolerance.

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  7. open source is still not liable by voss · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because the software is not purchased there is no contract. "permission to use" is not the same as a sale.

  8. Re:gpl comes with a license by rackserverdeals · · Score: 5, Insightful

    THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW.

    If the law changes and requires software to offer a warranty then the GPL will be vulnerable. Even if the GPL didn't include that statement, a court could invalidated it because a contract that breaks the law is not legally binding.

    Changing a license for a big project isn't always easy.

    This will most likely hurt companies like Redhat, Canonical, Novell and other corporate open source contributors because they will have to stand by their products and you're bound to get a few cases where they have to pay up.

    But it's not a law yet.

    --
    Dual Opteron < $600
  9. Re:if you pay you get working stuff or a refund, by rliden · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Do you really want to pay for perfect? There are risks associated with anything and buying perfect costs a hell of a lot of money.

    This is an issue that is more complicated that should developers be held liable for perfection. Is it good enough to work reliably in most cases? Was there a malicious or negligent intent to box and bunch of schlock? There are a lot of good questions that could be asked here when trying to define the responsibility and accountability of development companies.

    The market for proprietary software and the community for open source software does function pretty good for weeding out the crapware.

    --
    Don't think of it as a flame, more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage.
  10. Re:Not my fault by s_p_oneil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hmm, it would probably go like this:

    Engineers: "It's the software!"
    Developers: "It's the hardware!"
    Both: "Why didn't the testers catch this?"
    Testers: "That wasn't one of the use cases, so it's the designers' fault."
    Designers: "The product wasn't meant to be used that way, so it's a documentation error if the tech writers didn't tell users not to do that."
    Tech writers: "Don't look at me, I just write what you guys tell me to write."

    Open Source Developer: Don't look at me. My users contribute design ideas, code, docs, testing, etc. So if there's a problem, it's their fault 4 times over for designing it, coding it, failing to test it, and failing to document it. ;-)

  11. Re:Not my fault by CarpetShark · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually it'll probably work out like:

    Providers: Yeah, it's broken, sorry. Contact our insurance company, and put in a claim.

    Clients: Oh, you're insured for this? Great.

    Providers: Yeah, of course. We're pros, and totally insured for this, like all the other pros. Why else do you think you couldn't get a two-page website for less than $12,000?