Craigslist Kills Erotic Services Ads, Will Launch Adult Section

CWmike writes "Submitting to mounting legal pressure, Craigslist has announced that it will remove the Erotic Services category from its classified advertising Web site within seven days. The move comes just two and a half weeks after Jim Buckmaster, CEO of Craigslist, told Computerworld that the company had no intention of removing the category. While it's taking down the category, it will be launching a new category called Adult Services, for which each posting will be manually reviewed before it appears. 'Unsurprisingly, but completely contrary to some of the sensationalistic journalism we've seen these past few weeks, the record is clear that use of Craigslist classifieds is associated with far lower rates of violent crime than print classifieds, let alone rates of violent crime pertaining to American society as a whole,' said Buckmaster in a blog post today. 'We are optimistic that the new balance struck today will be an acceptable compromise from the perspective of the constituencies, and for the diverse US communities that value and rely upon Craigslist.'"

Comments

Not like it's going to make a difference

[XxtraLarGe]

They'll just use some other website instead. If there's one thing the authorities should learn it's that you can't win the game of whack-a-mole.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[DrLang21]

They'll probably just move back into the personals ads on Craigslist.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok time for a list of all post-craigslist sites.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[plague3106]

Of course because you're outlawing something you have no business outlawing, you drive it underground and force up prices (thus enticing more people into the act you want to ban) and make it dangerous for all involved. Instead of blasting CL for allowing the ads, they should be rethinking the law making the ads illegal in the first place. It's not like legalizing this would lead to the collapse of society... even the Church at one point allowed it.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[DrLang21]

Regulate and tax I say.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[gnick]

there is a site where people are telling everyone they are committing a crime, and how to get in touch with them, and they want to shut it down?

Almost. If somebody was posting ads on Craigslist that said, "I will have sex with you at your home in exchange for $150", and the Craigslist admins knew about it and ignored it - There would be a problem. But if somebody advertises "girlfriend services" or "Will come over in a school-girl uniform and talk dirty to you", that's a little different since no illegal activity is actually being advertised - Even though it may be implied. That puts Craigslist in an awkward situation.

I say that they should just encourage Craigslist to screen ads for anything blatantly illegal and use the edgier ads as leads to possibly crack down on criminals (you know... if we want to keep wasting tax $$ busting hookers...)

But you make it sound like Craigslist is engineered for encouraging crime - It's certainly not. But keeping criminal activity out of anything that flexible is going to be damned near impossible.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

That is what I'd don't understand about law enforcement antipathy to the project.

"Hey guys! There's this site where you can, like, look at pictures of hookers all day, and set up stings, all from the comfort of your desk!" "Wow, we'd better shut that one down." Srsly? Why?

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[PCM2]

It's not like legalizing this would lead to the collapse of society... even the Church at one point allowed it.

If by "this" you mean prostitution, rather than the posting of ads, then I venture that the collapse of society isn't the whole issue here.

Does society collapse when a hooker gets beaten up by a weirdo? Does society collapse when a bunch of Chinese girls get brought over in a shipping crate to work in a brothel? Does society collapse when a college girl's boyfriend tells her that if she wants to keep the coke coming she needs to turn a few tricks, and it will only be just once or twice? Or, when these things happen, does society just keep on humming the way it always has and nobody needs to give a damn, yet alone raise a finger?

The problem I have is not with prostitution per se, but with half-assed attempts to decriminalize prostitution that contribute to making the situation worse. There's a lot of human misery involved in the sex trade right now. Maybe legalizing prostitution will do away with all of it -- for the sake of argument, let's assume that it will. But until prostitution is really and honestly legalized, for Craigslist to allow posting of prostitution ads now is to support the sex trade as it exists right now, and I can't say I'm really for that.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[digitig]

"allowed" != "endorsed".

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[jalefkowit]

Protestants generally consider Catholics not to be Christians.

[Citation needed]

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[XxtraLarGe]

And yet if you do your history, the Roman Catholic church did (this was before ML).

Catholic priests participating in prostitution is far different from the Roman Catholic Church having a policy approving it. BTW, I wasn't trolling above, I was hoping that someone could supply any support for that argument.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[JWSmythe]

    Actually, there were already quite a few services like Craigslist for escorts before Craigslist got big.

    In many areas, the erotic services section isn't used. I've browsed around it for giggles.

    I've known a few people in the industry (no, not by soliciting their services). Craigslist is generally considered a newbie trashy way to advertise. Good escorts already have better methods.

    And no, I won't post any links. :) Go find them yourselves you pervs.

    By forcing Craigslist to shut down their ads, it's really sent all of those providers off to other means of advertising, which means law enforcement will have to go hunting again. It was a stupid logistics idea. Law enforcement will never stop prostitution, but it looks good to the public to have a decent number of busts. Why kill your easy method of facilitating busts. It's a freakin' list of "we can arrest these people tonight", rather than really hunting them down.

    It'd be like if there was a "Drug Services" section, that crack dealers were listing in. They could brag that they've increased their drug related arrests by 1000%. People will still buy and sell illegal drugs, all they can hope to do is encourage a few people out of the business, and keep the public believing that they're doing all they can do.

    I don't like the idea of going to jail, so I don't deal with any industries that would put me there. I do know people who do though, so I can learn second hand of what happens. If you sit down and listen to some of these people, you'd be amazed at how well thought out some parts are. Then again, other parts are handled stupidly, and those are the people you hear about getting arrested. Some busts are just dumb luck.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[ClosedSource]

The truth is despite all their "concern" about craigslist, law enforcement isn't really interested in any major effort to investigate and prosecute prostitutes, they just want to hide it.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[MickyTheIdiot]

This is true. The crazier bible-belt folks (like the kind that create recordings for us plebeians to listen to after the rapture because they ARE SO RIGHTEOUS that they are sure to be taken) often do believe Catholicism to be a cult or worse. There are even stories of certain book stores in the south shelving books written by a Pope under the "occult" section.

The more sane Protestants don't teach that. As a matter of fact, IIRC from Methodist confirmation classes long ago the Pastor taught me that all the branches of Christianity had more in common than they had differences and that they were getting closer in their beliefs all the time.

Like the difference between Republicans and Democrats a certain number of blowhards like to put wedges in the differences and push as hard as they can.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[shutdown -p now]

Protestants generally consider Catholics not to be Christians.

Given that Catholics and Eastern Orthodox still make the majority of self-declared Christians worldwide, and given that they do recognize each other as Christian (even if heretical/schismatic), who cares about what Protestants think?

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[PCM2]

Yeah, but you missed my point. Prostitution isn't legal and you can't get coke at a pharmacy. So let's lobby for the right things here. Lobby for legalized prostitution, lobby for free cocaine for everybody for all I care -- but don't lobby for Craigslist to be allowed to support the existing black markets for coke and women. Whether you consider vice crimes to be victimless crimes or not, right now there are a lot of really rotten people who profit from those markets, and some of the profits go towards other things that you might like a lot less than you like hookers n' blow.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[eyrieowl]

A statement as broad as yours requires more than a couple of anecdotal links to back it up. All your links prove is that *some* Protestants don't believe Catholics are Christians. You imply it's the general rule, which I'll be generous and assume means a simple majority. FYI, I've also attended well over a dozen churches across the spectrum on a regular basis over the years. I would agree that some of the fundamentalist Protestants might believe a statement as strongly worded as that. However, I suspect even in those communities that if you gave them a choice between "Catholics aren't Christian" and "Catholics have lots of wrong beliefs but are Christians if they believe Jesus is Lord" you'd get a lot of people picking the second statement. That said, it would be a mistake to assume that Protestants are "generally" fundamentalist, there are a *lot* of mainstream Protestant denominations across the world which get along just fine with Catholics.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[PCM2]

Sorry, but those things have existed forever, and will regardless of any laws or lack thereof. You are always going to have trafficking, weirdos, drug abusers, etc. Your entire argument is bullshit.

So because they exist, we should have ads for Chinese brothels in glossy magazines? On TV?

Legalize (safely) prostitution as is already being done in NV across the country and watch the impact.

I specifically said I was willing to make the assumption that legalized prostitution was the answer. (I don't really believe in anything so simplistic, but I'm willing to accept it for the sake of argument.) So, having missed my point completely, what's yours?

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[jcr]

Regulate and tax I say.

You know, I constantly hear this about all of the victimless crimes we have on the books today, and it really pisses me off. Why in the hell is the government entitled to tribute for refraining from interfering in something that's none of their business in the first place?

I want the drug war to end. I don't want the end of the drug war to mean that governments get billions in new tax revenues, in fact I want the taxpayers to get back the money we waste on the drug war now.

-jcr

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[jcr]

So because they exist, we should have ads for Chinese brothels in glossy magazines? On TV?

I'd leave that up to the owners of the media in question to decide. As it happens, the first amendment of the constitution concurs.

-jcr

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[drinkypoo]

Taking the prostitution off of craigslist harms legitimate prostitutes as well as the pimps who take advantage of women for profit. By making it harder for the legitimate prostitutes to work openly you increase the chances that they will turn to or otherwise be taken advantage of a pimp, or that they will be murdered because they are forced to service the fringes of society. Driving prostitution underground makes things worse, not better. If you want to improve life for prostitutes you should both lobby for legalized prostitution AND for prostitutes to have places to advertise.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[jcr]

They'll just use some other website instead.

Or else they'll just spam the personals and all the other ad categories on Craigslist like they used to before CL had the "adult services" category.

-jcr

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[lawpoop]

Why in the hell is the government entitled to tribute for refraining from interfering in something that's none of their business in the first place?

Does the government have a right to tax at all? Do they have a right to tax some things, but not this? Why would this be none of their business? Is anything their business to tax?

If you want things ( maybe one day recreational drugs and prostitution ) to stay safe and enjoyable , we need taxes for police, courts, FDAs, and public infrastructure like roads, electricity, and sewers, etc.

For all their self-righteousness, I never have heard of any libertarians moving to the middle of the Amazon or Somalia. Somalia has been free of the tyranny of government and taxes going on twenty years now.

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[jcr]

anyone who would argue for the legalization of cocaine is either ignorant or stupid.

Let me stop you right there, and point out your own ignorance and stupidity. Cocaine was an over-the-counter drug once, and we didn't have anyone getting shot over it. An addict needs treatment, not prosecution.

Try googling for "portugal drug decriminalization", read and learn.

-jcr

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[Anonymous Coward]

In this instance the word catholic means universal

Re:Not like it's going to make a difference

[sremick]

Being paid to have sex IS legal... as long as you videotape it and sell the videos.

Sort THAT one out.

Mounting Legal Pressure?

[nurb432]

Last i heard you had the right to free speech in this country.

If they want to print sex ads to adults, so be it. Don't like sex ads, well don't read those sections.

Re:Mounting Legal Pressure?

[Gizzmonic]

That actor is the one responsible for the harm that results. Anything less is just someone trying to shirk the responsibility for their actions.

This is sophistry at its worst. Are you seriously saying you think it should be legal for hitmen to advertise their wares? That their offers to kill someone for money are anything like what we treasure as free speech? Surely you're high on drugs!

Re:Mounting Legal Pressure?

[HTH NE1]

* "You wanna buy some weed?"

Got any dandelions?

* "If you'll give me $20, I'll give you head."

Already got the head. I just need to decide between a body or a frameset.

* "If you can come up with a porno starring a 6 year old, I'll pay you $250."

I'll see if Jennifer Lien will reprise her role as Kes.

* "If you'll shoot my wife, I'll give you $500."

Will that be with a regular or a telephoto lens?

Re:Mounting Legal Pressure?

[bluefoxlucid]

Free speech means being able to stand on the White House lawn and announce that you're about to rape the president with a C4 dildo.

You are free to make such a statement; however, you can be arrested for assault (verbal) and detained pending investigation. Threatening physical harm of the president will get you tackled, shackled, and charged with SOMETHING; stupidity is punishable at least to a small degree.

one word... splat!

[skathe]

What's really going to suck is when all those ads start showing up in other sections of craigslist, cluttering it even futher. They actually made the problem worse. Whack-a-mole, yes, but in this case, after you whacked the mole, it just splattered all over the place and it's even more of a mess than it was before. At least with the "Erotic Services" section, the problem was condensed and confined to one single section, at least for the most part.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Justification

[Bruce Perens]

I don't think this is going to have any serious effect on Craigslist. They are just changing the name of the service and putting reviewers in place.

We should look at why these sorts of services run into trouble with the law. The reasons run from good to terrible.

• These ads lead to exploitation of children by pimps? If so, good reason.
• These ads lead to exploitation of women by pimps? I had heard the internet had largely done away with pimps because sex workers can market themselves. Is that so?
• These ads lead to murder and mayhem. But then again, that has been happening with Craigslist used-car ads - what better way to lure a victim to bring a roll of cash?
• These ads lead to disease?
• A supernatural being postulated by your religion has given you rules about sex that you feel should apply to everyone. Bad reason.

Re:Justification

[The End Of Days]

Protecting people from themselves is always a terrible reason, and that's all this boils down to no matter how many times people wanna get all "think of the children."

You'd think the whole prohibition mess would have taught the puritanical moral high-ground people how well banning things works. Guess the real whack-a-mole game is trying to hammer the lesson into the nanny-stater head.

Meanwhile, if the law manages to shut down every prostitution ad on the web, they'll just go back to the streets. Good job! I miss walking through a sea of hookers on the way to the train station.

Re:Justification

[Bruce Perens]

Rather than think of it as protecting people from themselves, think of it as protecting the weak from the powerful. Women are in some cases subjugated by men. And then there's the whole poverty, addiction, prostitution cycle.

All of that said, some of the reason we're running into this is because of problems that society isn't willing to handle. You can start with the horribly bungled handling of poverty in the U.S., which seems to have been designed to promote bad social values and create a perpetual client class.

Re:Justification

[Anonymous Coward]

The ads on Craigslist did little to stop pimps. Think of pimps more like business managers, taking care of the ads, scheduling, transportation, etc. And they're still nasty characters if things don't go their way (ie, they don't get their money). This isn't to say that there weren't many independent providers, but there were certainly a lot of pimps. You could even tell when independents "joined up" with a pimp, due to the way the ads were structured and the phone numbers used.

My point is, Craigslist didn't change the prostitution industry. The prostitution industry adapted to Craigslist.

I know in my home state of RI (where the Craigslist Killer allegedly struck), the biggest problem has been human trafficking with asian massage parlors. Due to the laws here, these places run with little fear of being shut down, and Craigslist was the perfect place to advertise. I suspect that, even with the new changes coming, these places will still operate just fine, since they don't advertise any services that appear illegal. My fear is it'll lead to an uptick in their popularity, and more widespread human trafficking as a result.

This industry isn't just about sex, and it discourages me that the discussion about it hasn't extended out more. But, what else can I expect from our Puritanical society.

Too bad the very same erotic services ads

[FlyingSquidStudios]

are in every single free weekly paper in the entire country.

Re:Too bad the very same erotic services ads

[Un pobre guey]

Of course. This is just a symbolic gesture to deal with negative PR. A year from now, it will be forgotten and things will be as they were, until yet another psycho does something after responding to a Craigslist ad.

Doesn't this open them up to liability and suits?

[Bellegante]

Before, craigslist could easily claim they were not responsible for content, and that has been the line for quite some time. Now they are going to -manually- review every entry in a particular section? That seems insane to me. They are giving up the most important protection that they have, for no gain at all and a lot of extra work.

Re:Unemployment Rates

[cayenne8]

Damn..I was really hoping they'd fight this one.

From what I read of CL's lawyers earlier releases, it seemed that they could indeed have withstood and won any court battles that would have come their way. I was hoping some good precedents would have been set....

A victory for all the world to celebrate!

[Un pobre guey]

Craigslist will change the name of the section from Erotic Services to [begin fanfare] Adult Services [end fanfare]. Moralists, pretentious busybodies, and deranged religious fanatics can now celebrate and return to their burrows to once again stay out of the way of civilized society.

As time goes by, the parade of human folly seems more and more absurd. Maybe it's because I'm getting older. I hate to think what "for which each posting will be manually reviewed before it appears" means, though. I can only assume there were thousands of them. I suspect that the law only requires them to not print ads for flagrant exchanges of money for sex. Most Craigslist erotic ads already used a variety of vague euphemisms anyway (or so I've read).

Re:Unemployment Rates

[jcr]

I was really hoping they'd fight this one.

That's a bit unrealistic. Not many businesses would try to fight for their rights under the first amendment when they're facing an opponent with a limitless tax-funded litigation budget.

The practical effect of this will be nil; anyone who wants to advertise prostitution will just find another web site, probably one located outside the USA.

-jcr

Solution to the Solution

[DeanFox]

"Erotic services" was created to solve a problem in the "personals". If the new monitored "adult section" (new name for the old link) starts to delete, not allow or delay the ads they'll just go right back to where they were to start with. The (unmonitored BTW) "personals" is where everybody advertised before the "erotic services" was created.

Sheeez. Are these prosecutors really this stupid? I suppose if I have to ask the question.....

Poor Choice of Words

[StevenAD]

I'm not sure "Craigslist Kills Erotic Services Ads" was the best choice of words, given the circumstances that brought about that change.

Re:Unemployment Rates

[mrsteele]

Not to mention I'm completely baffled how the AGs are up in arms about these sections, calling them 'dangerous', when the Casual Encounter sections are the real ones filled with scary people.

Re:Unemployment Rates

[mattwarden]

Isn't it odd that we are essentially funding an entity to violate our Constitutional rights, and then further funding it to fight to defend its offense without end?

Weird to think about...