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How Google's High Speed Book Scanner De-Warps Pages

Hugh Pickens writes "Patent 7,508,978, awarded to Google, shows how the company has already managed to scan more than 7 million books. Google's system uses two cameras and infrared light to automatically correct for the curvature of pages in a book. By constructing a 3D model of each page and then 'de-warping' it afterward, Google can present flat-looking pages online without having to slice books up or mash them onto a flatbed scanner. Stephen Shankland writes that the 'sophistication of the technology illustrates that would-be competitors who want to feature their own digitized libraries won't have a trivial time catching up to Google.' First, a book is placed on a flat surface, while above it, an infrared projector displays a special mazelike pattern onto the pages. Next, two infrared cameras photograph the infrared pattern from different perspectives. 'The images can be stereoscopically combined, using known stereoscopic techniques, to obtain a three-dimensional mapping of the pattern,' according to the patent. 'The pattern falls on the surface of (the) book, causing the three-dimensional mapping of the pattern to correspond to the three-dimensional surface of the page of the book.'"

209 comments

  1. The most important question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did they get the "processing software" out of a cereal packet?

  2. More importantly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Does it run on Linux? Does it work for scanning porn?

    1. Re:More importantly by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      Yes and yes, although only scanning in porn magazines instead of actually using it in the porn itself would be a very unimaginative way to use this technology...

    2. Re:More importantly by Tdawgless · · Score: 1

      Now all my porn looks like a flat screen monitor...

    3. Re:More importantly by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Only a real weirdo would want to see those curves flattened, don't you think?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  3. IMPORTANT QUESTIONS by space_jake · · Score: 2, Funny

    I wonder how ass curvature comes out with that scanner.

    1. Re:IMPORTANT QUESTIONS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      The same way as your face.

    2. Re:IMPORTANT QUESTIONS by zehaeva · · Score: 1

      like it says, flat

  4. note to self: by circletimessquare · · Score: 2, Funny

    do NOT sit on the copier machine with pants down at google hq

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:note to self: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      001100
      010010
      011110
      100001
      101101
      110011

    2. Re:note to self: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      do no evil my ass

    3. Re:note to self: by Scroatzilla · · Score: 1

      Although it would be funny to see a book search for "butt" yield several results with ( * ) in them.

  5. Patent!!??!! by aashenfe · · Score: 5, Funny

    When is the patent office going to quit giving patents for obvious techniques? :)

    1. Re:Patent!!??!! by sopssa · · Score: 3, Funny

      So why didnt you do or patent it before?

    2. Re:Patent!!??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I hate patents as much as anyone else, but:
      1) This isn't so obvious, and requires some fairly complex math
      2) It is pretty complex (in the way it functions), enough that i would actually consider this patent-worthy.

      But, there is some "prior art" of such functions in the visible range for scanning bodies IIRC.

      I believe this was meant to be funny, and i shall accept incoming whooshes of air with joy.
      Have at you.

      note: i still hate patents though.
      I can't see why they would benefit from patenting this method...
      I guess for the usual reasoning behind it, "FIRST!"

    3. Re:Patent!!??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is basically the same as barcode-scanning at your local grocery store. Have you ever noticed the crosshatch pattern that it uses, along with a camera to interpret it? I'm sure that's either patented somewhere or too obvious to be. All they did was use a scanner instead of pattern recognition.

    4. Re:Patent!!??!! by aashenfe · · Score: 2, Informative

      Simple, I was trying to be funny. Notice the smiley :)

    5. Re:Patent!!??!! by Dewin · · Score: 5, Informative

      I believe the pattern barcode scanners use is simply trying to look for the barcode in several different directions, but I could be wrong.

      I also believe there's either rudimentary correction for common types of distortion (i.e. on cylindrical objects) or just wide enough tolerances to allow it to work anyways.

      --
      Of course nobody reads the FAQ! If people read the FAQ, the Questions wouldn't be so Frequently Asked.
    6. Re:Patent!!??!! by javaxjb · · Score: 1

      I hate patents as much as anyone else, but: 1) This isn't so obvious, and requires some fairly complex math 2) It is pretty complex (in the way it functions), enough that i would actually consider this patent-worthy.

      I would add that at least this patent is not solely a software patent; it has a hardware component.

      --
      Programmers in mirror are brighter than they appear
    7. Re:Patent!!??!! by anglico · · Score: 1

      I'm sure that's either patented somewhere

      Unsure of the specific barcode you are talking about but if you are talking about the barcode that you see on UPS packages then it is UPS that patented that back in 1998 I think. I remember them showing us a video of the up and coming way to sort packages and they mentioned that they patented this new 3D barcode system.

    8. Re:Patent!!??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's obvious to anyone skilled in the art of image registration/processing. It doesn't have to be obvious to you, personally, in order to be unpatentable.

    9. Re:Patent!!??!! by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      You are correct.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    10. Re:Patent!!??!! by profplump · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's just wide tolerances. The whole UPC-scanning system was designed so that the output from the light return sensor could be read directly (ignoring some minor gain control/etc.) as a digital data stream, with the clock rate determined by the horizontal scan rate. There's no reason to do distortion correction because it's not reading an image in the first place, it's just reading a series of high/low signal returns as serial data. I'm sure you could build a more complicated system to does 2-D or 3-D imaging and distortion correction, but it's way more work than is necessary to read a linear UPC.

    11. Re:Patent!!??!! by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      also in barcodes you need only one dimension. but in books you need a plane (2d).

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    12. Re:Patent!!??!! by operagost · · Score: 1

      There are also 2D barcodes. Look at a package shipped by a major carrier and you'll see them.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    13. Re:Patent!!??!! by Timmmm · · Score: 4, Informative

      You jest, but this technique *has* been around for years. I remember when digital cameras first became available there was a product that could perform a 3D scan by projecting a pattern onto the object and using an offset picture. I think the pattern came on a slide - that's how long ago it was! Here's a whole wikipedia page about the scanning technique: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_Light_3D_Scanner

      This picture is especially good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:6-seat.jpg

      Anyway after reading the patent abstract, it isn't about the 3D scanning at all, it appears to be about an algorithm to find the fold once you've already got the point cloud. I would have thought that was fairly trivial. A possible approach would be to take the radon transform of the height map and find the smallest value that's roughly in the middle.

    14. Re:Patent!!??!! by retchdog · · Score: 2, Funny

      Whoa, "radon transform"? Hold on a second, wiz-kid. Does that use poisonous gas or something? It's certainly not mathematics, because that means stuff like "three times four".

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    15. Re:Patent!!??!! by WCguru42 · · Score: 1

      they patented this new 3D barcode system.

      Really, I've never seen a 3D barcode on anything. maybe 2D, but definitely no 3D barcodes on my packages.

      --
      "Educate the mind but never at the expense of the soul."~Blessed Basil Moreau
    16. Re:Patent!!??!! by WCguru42 · · Score: 1

      Then how come nobody else has used it to scan books. All the photocopies of books I've gotten throughout the year seems to belie your statement of this being obvious.

      --
      "Educate the mind but never at the expense of the soul."~Blessed Basil Moreau
    17. Re:Patent!!??!! by SBrach · · Score: 1

      If you are thinking of 2d data matrices, many people use this technology. Linky.

    18. Re:Patent!!??!! by petermgreen · · Score: 3, Informative

      It certainly is mathematics and it's not that hard to understand either. basically it is the mathematical equivilent of what a hard field tomograph does.

      Consider a function of two values and consider those values to be 2D coordinates. Consider also that the function is zero outside of a defined area.

      Now consider that there are an infiniate number infinitely long number of straight lines passing through that area and each can be defined by two parameters, an angle and an offset from the orgin in the direction perpendicular to the line.

      Along each of those lines an integral can be calculated. those integrals form the radon transform of the function (with each integral being identified by the two parameters).

      Not really that complicated, the trickiest bit is probablly deciding how best to approximate the line integrals from your limited number of data points.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    19. Re:Patent!!??!! by Score+Whore · · Score: 0, Redundant

      I hate patents as much as anyone else, but:
      1) This isn't so obvious, and requires some fairly complex math

      Actually this isn't new. Back in college, around 1993-1994 I was working with a team that used stripe lasers projected forward from a vehicle. Then a pair of stereoscopic cameras would take a picture. Then software would analyze the deflection in the beams to determine the shape of terrain the vehicle was approaching. In fact the information from the previous images was translated through the system's model of the terrain as the vehicle moved around. It was quite clever.

      One might check this paper (I am not the author of the paper):

      http://tim.mcjunkin-web.org/mcjunkin_thesis_body.pdf

    20. Re:Patent!!??!! by retchdog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I almost feel bad. I know what a radon transform is and I've taken a class on inverse problems.

      My point was just that the common view of what is mathematics is rather anemic and quick to give engineering credit to relatively simple ideas. I suspect that the patent office has similar fallacious thinking.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    21. Re:Patent!!??!! by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The Russians (iirhad a cute trick too. A tiny spy cam with two lights pointing down on the page. When the two dots where joined the camera was it the right distance and the spy got a quality image of a page.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    22. Re:Patent!!??!! by ctmurray · · Score: 1

      I know you posted with a smiley face, but I thought I would comment on the obviousness. I have patents and been through the process (I work for a large company so we patent often and thus have staff to do the items I will describe).

      We do a thorough prior art search using skilled patent search librarians. The last thing you want to have happen is to go through the process and expense to find prior art that stops you from getting a patent - and if the prior art is a patent might prevent you from bringing your product to market (you could negotiate a license though).We are under a legal obligation to provide the prior art that we know of to the patent office.

      Then the patent examiner does his own searching to find prior art. In fact nearly all the patents we file have their claims rejected due to obviousness or overlapping claims from the prior art. A long back and forth goes on arguing over fine points of patent law and these references. Sometimes claims are modified to get around these objections

      But in the end quite a bit of time and resources are focuses on the obviousness of the claims. I know there have been some publicity on patents in the internet era, in fields arguably the patent office was less skilled at examining. I am not sure but I believe subsequent litigation corrected the most of the worst examples.

      You can also get a patent that is a clear improvement on an existing patent. So here the general concept was very obvious. And in practice you are "underneath" the other patent, you can't practice your improvement without consent of the original patent. This often leads to cross licensing as both parties could benefit.

    23. Re:Patent!!??!! by troll8901 · · Score: 1

      Smiley? You have smileyware on your computer? You don't belong to Slashdot, out out you go! :)

    24. Re:Patent!!??!! by HEbGb · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. The mathematics are well understood and not difficult at all. This patent is for an unnecessarily complicated scheme for warping scanned pages, and it's not even clear that it's useful.

      Having a patent on something does NOT mean it's being used, or has real utility.

      I see no reason why an algorithm that recognized the layout of the text can't de-warp the pages. Text is (basically) universally in straight lines. Why can't a linear fit be performed to determine the warping algorithm? This sounds like something any decent engineering senior could do.

  6. So... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How long before some particularly vengeful luddite publisher starts printing on treated paper stock that has an IR visible pattern, calculated to confuse these scanners, printed on it?

    They've been making "anti-copy paper" designed to defeat optical scanning for years now, surely something similar in the IR band could be effected...

    1. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe those books are less important to commit to a digital scan ;-)

    2. Re:So... by twistedsymphony · · Score: 4, Insightful

      they could probably do it in the visible spectrum as well, it would just take twice as long because they can't map and scan at the same time.

      Failing that there are alternative methods that might work as well.

    3. Re:So... by Chyeld · · Score: 1

      Why? Just as you said, they already have anti-copy paper. If you don't want someone to be able to copy your book, simply print using that (of course, that will cause your costs to skyrocket). It's not as if the IR block would prevent the copy, it'd just mean the copy looks like crap (thus potentially impacting your image as a publisher).

    4. Re:So... by bmwm3nut · · Score: 1

      Then you just do phased-lock detection. In the IR with current cheap detectors you can modulate in the kHz without any problem. I wouldn't be surprised if they do that now. In my lab we look for changes in an IR signal that are about 10^8 times smaller than the background IR radiation. It's not a hard problem to solve.

    5. Re:So... by akunkel · · Score: 0

      Shortly thanks to you! And the ironic thing is that publisher will probably find your post here on Slashdot with that idea using Google.

    6. Re:So... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have to hope that any publisher hip enough to read Slashdot for tech advice(rather than relying on glossy advertisements from "security" vendors in the latest issue of Monetizing The Everloving Fuck Out of Your Precious, Precious IP magazine) wouldn't do anything that stupid. I wouldn't bet on it, though.

      With respect to the foolishness over "copy protection" it is interesting to consider the possible application of the old line "the worse, the better." The idea is that, in order for a bad situation to change, it must get worse, so that the cost of tolerating it becomes unbearably high. As long as DRM and anti-copy paper, and macrovision and all the others cause relatively limited customer displeasure and support calls, there will be little incentive to change, and things will remain as they are. If you can drive the content guys to ever more intrusive measures, things might actually get bad enough to spur a blowback.

    7. Re:So... by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Two things, first off, they just use something else to accomplish the same thing. If you can read it, something else can as well. It may not be as fast, it may take some time and money to develop and optimize but that amount of time and money is probably pretty trivial to Google.

      Second, Google doesn't care about any book that can do that at this time, they are going after old works currently, that aren't being produced by anyone anyway, so nothing they are going after right now is going to be affected by anything a publisher can do, they simply aren't scanning anything new unless they've worked out a deal some other way, in which case they probably just say 'so why don't you give us the text and save both of us a bunch of effort and time.'

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    8. Re:So... by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Would it matter with the 100s of millions of books that are already there they have go to thru first?

      Wish i had that at home, would love to scan a lot of my stuff but refuse to cut it.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    9. Re:So... by russotto · · Score: 1

      How long before some particularly vengeful luddite publisher starts printing on treated paper stock that has an IR visible pattern, calculated to confuse these scanners, printed on it?

      Before one does it? Not long. Before any significant amount of product is produced using it? Probably forever, on cost and particularly cost/benefit issues. Besides, if the protected product produced was particularly interesting to those wanting to scan it, they could almost certainly modify the scan system to accomodate it.

    10. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This idea was invented by Shampoo.

  7. Patent? Prior Art? by mveloso · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wasn't this a Sci-Fi movie staple back in the 80s? They used it for body and object scanning, not books...but still.

    1. Re:Patent? Prior Art? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Why did they run an OCR on a body scan? :D

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re:Patent? Prior Art? by SomeJoel · · Score: 2, Funny

      To read the tattoos.

      --
      <Complete your profile by adding a signature!>
    3. Re:Patent? Prior Art? by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      Different tech. Those were typically laser triangulation sensors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_scanner#Triangulation) where a line was beamed onto a rotating object and the profile gave the 3D shape. It allows accurate modeling of complex shapes, but is relatively slow and not particularly suited for this task.

  8. The New Bell Labs? by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've read many comments over the years about the old Bell Labs and how a huge amount of pioneering research came out of them over the course of their existance, i.e. before they got axed.

    It would seem that Google Labs is performing somewhat the same function, albeit more oriented towards software rather than physical research.

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
    1. Re:The New Bell Labs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Bell Labs did basic research that most of the time didn't have any current commercial applications and maybe never will.

      Google's all have current commercial applications. I don't know of anything they do that is for pure research and to add to humanities knowledge.

    2. Re:The New Bell Labs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Bell Labs did basic research that most of the time didn't have any current commercial applications and maybe never will.

      Google's all have current commercial applications. I don't know of anything they do that is for pure research and to add to humanities knowledge.

      Doesn't Google have something called the 20% policy or something like that? Where Google engineers devote 20% of their time to non-Google projects?

      Not exactly basic research, but not necessarily commercial applications.

      The closure of Bell Labs is one of the tragedies of the 20th century.

    3. Re:The New Bell Labs? by mattack2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I can't find proof in a quick search, but I do remember others posting responses here recently (possibly Anonymous Cowards) to people mentioning the 20% time with things like (paraphrase) "that will be useful for Google". In other words, the implication (or at least my inference) was that while they are technically "non-Google", the intent was that eventually they would be Google projects or the projects would be killed off.

      I have no first hand knowledge of that, however.

      The small paragraph http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google#Innovation_Time_Off is interesting, and says (with a citation)

      In a talk at Stanford University, Marissa Mayer, Google's Vice President of Search Products and User Experience, stated that her analysis showed that half of the new product launches originated from the 20% time.

    4. Re:The New Bell Labs? by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      The closure of Bell Labs is one of the tragedies of the 20th century.

      The closure of Bell Labs was the result of one of the greatest farces of the 20th century.

      (Yes, the telecommunications act did address some very real problems that needed attention. Unfortunately the solution was in many ways, worse than the problem itself)

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
  9. progress by emkyooess · · Score: 1

    And thus, as easily pointed out in the blurb ("would-be competitors..."), this patent will hamper progress.

    1. Re:progress by Chyeld · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Only if Google refused to license it. Google isn't Microsoft or Intel; I doubt they'd go that route.

      In fact, since Google has paid for the innovation of this tech, including the R&D for it, patenting it and then allowing companies to license it reduces the barrier since companies that couldn't have paid for the research now have the technique available to them.

  10. Why? by Publikwerks · · Score: 1

    Ok, is it just me, but wouldn't it be easier to just cut the spine off the book instead of developing a whole new way of scanning it? I could understand for old/valuable books, but it seems to me to be a bit of overkill.

    1. Re:Why? by vertinox · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ok, is it just me, but wouldn't it be easier to just cut the spine off the book instead of developing a whole new way of scanning it?

      With 7 million books, the manpower and time saved for them to cut the spine off would be worth it.

      Also, they can resell the books if needed or give them charity after they are done.

      Kind of would be a waste of a paper to tear that many books apart.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    2. Re:Why? by chill · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind, the majority of the books they are scanning are old, out-of-print and copyright expired texts. They aren't something you can pop over to Amazon and order another one of. So the bulk ARE old and/or valuable.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    3. Re:Why? by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      Why use two separate processes for the two categories of book instead of using the same process for both, especially if this process cuts down on manpower and book damage.

    4. Re:Why? by F34nor · · Score: 1

      Read "Rainbow's End" by Vernor Vinge

    5. Re:Why? by AndrewNeo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I really don't think the libraries that Google was scanning at would have appreciated that too much..

    6. Re:Why? by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 4, Informative

      Google is mostly scanning books borrowed from university libraries. Librarians get cranky if you borrow a book and return a stack of loose sheets of paper.

    7. Re:Why? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Kind of would be a waste of a paper to tear that many books apart.

      Yep, and it would take a lot of spine.

      Oh man, I'm like a card catalog of puns today!

    8. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google is mostly scanning books borrowed from university libraries. Librarians get cranky if you borrow a book and return a stack of loose sheets of paper.

      Yes. That's why you should always steal books from the library instead!

    9. Re:Why? by againjj · · Score: 1

      I am willing to bet that they do that with cheap books (ones they buy), but not with expensive ones (ones they borrow). One certainly can't remove the spines of books in libraries or other collections.

    10. Re:Why? by troll8901 · · Score: 1

      In a clandestine operation, Googol has launched a covert operation deep into the hearts of Gatus and Joba's sorcery libraries...

    11. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously, as people have mentioned, libraries get pissed. I think this is stupid. It would be worth it to sacrifice one copy of a book in order to make an endless number of digital copies available. Especially since this would reduce the number of errors caused by tight spines fingers making their way into the scans. They could even go on to recycle millions of dismantled books and maybe chop a few less trees down.

  11. Playing Catch-up by krog · · Score: 1

    ... The sophistication of the technology illustrates that would-be competitors who want to feature their own digitized libraries won't have a trivial time catching up to Google.

    Especially with that shiny new patent.

    1. Re:Playing Catch-up by jsnipy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      but to be honest this is at least worthy patent

      --
      -- if you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine
    2. Re:Playing Catch-up by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Informative

      Obviously it was worthy enough to be issued; but I don't know how worthy it is in the broader sense.

      Notably, for instance, there has been a fair bit of interest, for some years, in using digital cameras in concert with projectors, either for automatic keystone/distortion correction, for projectors that aren't perfectly aligned with the projection surface, or for automatic coordination of multiple projectors illuminating the same surface, without laborious manual tiling adjustment. This is, in essence, an equivalent problem(inferring a surface's geometry based on pictures of a known image projected upon it).

      The IEEE has held "Projector-Camera systems" workshops since 2003, and somebody was obviously working on it before that. I'm not saying that Google's patent falls into asshole troll territory or anything; but the notion of doing surface geometry inference based on known image projection isn't nearly as novel as it might seem.

    3. Re:Playing Catch-up by poetmatt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This may be a projector thing, but they are doing something of physical manipulation. It would be pretty much appropriate to be patented. The whole thing is physically transformative. Meanwhile, if someone made their own version using something different, it too, would be patentable/improvement patent, which is how the patent system is supposed to work.

      To be clear, I'm saying the system as a whole should be patentable (infrared), but not the software used to decode it.

    4. Re:Playing Catch-up by ushering05401 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Word.

      I was involved in evaluating rare books back around the turn of the century.

      I can personally attest that representatives of online book search companies were attempting to buy up one of a kind pieces for destructive scanning.

      There was one dealer in possession of a somewhat flawed, but well examined Shakespeare folio that had to put the kabosh on a reputation making deal because he found out the buyer was going to slice the piece out of its binding for scanning.

      I turned down a much smaller offer on a much less significant, but still very cool, two hundred year old angler's guide (with hand colored plates and original binding) for the same reason.

      Quality scans without destruction can only help raise the profile of rare books and the value they offer society - not simply for their content, but as tangible examples of the evolution of the art of communication.

    5. Re:Playing Catch-up by jcwayne · · Score: 1

      To be clear, I'm saying the system as a whole should be patentable (infrared), but not the software used to decode it.

      That's were the copyright takes over.

      (ducks, runs for cover)

      --
      Failure to follow this advice may result in non-deterministic behavior.
    6. Re:Playing Catch-up by jcwayne · · Score: 1

      I know, thou shalt not ignore the preview when being a wise ass. Yeah, yeah.

      To be clear, I'm saying the system as a whole should be patentable (infrared), but not the software used to decode it.

      That's where the copyright takes over.

      (ducks, runs for cover)

      --
      Failure to follow this advice may result in non-deterministic behavior.
    7. Re:Playing Catch-up by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Obviously it was worthy enough to be issued; but I don't know how worthy it is in the broader sense.

      Just when I thought you were going to make an interesting point on the worthiness of patents "in the broader sense" as you put it, it turns out you were just rooting for someone else.

      Your comment didn't turn out to be all that "worthy".

      In the broader sense, that is.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    8. Re:Playing Catch-up by perryizgr8 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      i have always wondered how some people seem to get BOTH preview and submit buttons. because i get only preview and after clicking it i get the submit button.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    9. Re:Playing Catch-up by BikeHelmet · · Score: 4, Funny

      This is actually what I envisioned for a book scanner, years ago.

      But unlike Google, I...

      1) Never built it.
      2) Am not facing lawsuits from overzealous sue-happy publishers.

      Seems like a good defensive patent to have.

    10. Re:Playing Catch-up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you.

    11. Re:Playing Catch-up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This trick has been used for 20 years in astronomy. You shine a really powerful laser of known metrics into the sky and measure the atmospheric distortion suffered by the beam.

      Then you take those numbers and calculate what it would take to even out the beam, and you feed THAT set of numbers to a telescope with adaptive optics which will then correct for the atmospheric distortion. Bingo, suddenly your telescope is able to take sharp images without having the air screw it up.

      The technique is very effective and results in ground-based telescopes that rival anything the Hubble can do. Plus they are easier to fix.

      I want to say this is called Guidestar but I am not sure.

      Anyway the similarity to Google's process is simply that you shine a light or image of known value on something unknown and look at how the image now deviates from what you expect. A little math and suddenly you know exactly the shape of the unknown object. Brilliant.

    12. Re:Playing Catch-up by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Especially with that shiny new patent.
      Couldn't they just build and operate the scanner somewhere outside the patents coverage area?

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    13. Re:Playing Catch-up by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 2, Informative

      Really? Structured light to find 3D geometry is old hat ... the optical and signal processing part of book scanning seem pretty easy, making the mechanical part for page flipping robust seems a lot harder to me.

    14. Re:Playing Catch-up by petermgreen · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      The seperate page post form allows direct submission (provided you aren't AC) but the inline ajax based box requires you to preview.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    15. Re:Playing Catch-up by jwhitener · · Score: 2, Funny

      If you were a rare book expert during the turn of the century, why isn't your slashdot ID smaller?

      ;

    16. Re:Playing Catch-up by Jartan · · Score: 1

      I kind of doubt the patent will stop any competitors. It should be trivial to achieve the same result with dozens of different methods.

      I'm kind of surprised they used that method in fact. There should of been several that allowed them to scan the books without even requiring them to fully flip open and lay flat each page. With so many books to scan speed must of been important.

      I guess this method worked because the device was so cheap that they could just make a lot of scanners.

    17. Re:Playing Catch-up by jo42 · · Score: 1

      Some people call the time around 2000 "the turn of the century" - you know, going from 1999 to 2000.

    18. Re:Playing Catch-up by weetabeex · · Score: 1

      Maybe he had a real life by that time?

    19. Re:Playing Catch-up by tomz16 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's simply called adaptive optics (AO). In AO, a guidestar is a natural isolated point-like star that is close to your science object (what you are trying to look at). If a laser is used to excite the sodium layer to create an artificial reference, it's called a "laser guidestar".

      Anyway, this "trick" is completely different from adaptive optics in both the mathematics and implementation.

    20. Re:Playing Catch-up by digitalchinky · · Score: 1

      Well, you could always patent the whole page turning thing before google does then.

      Who does that job anyway? I've worked some crappy gigs in my day, but Chief Executive Page Turning Boy (or girl) would probably get boring after, like, 4 seconds. Maybe I should apply.

    21. Re:Playing Catch-up by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      You could build a robotic glove that does it for you, then patent that!

      Robotic assist appendage designed to facilitate efficient page turning, allowing user to simultaneously conduct multiple other tasks with other appendages!

      Or, better yet - it could be your moonlighting job! You sleep while the robotic glove turns the pages, and then you collect the paychecks! Brilliant!

    22. Re:Playing Catch-up by junglebeast · · Score: 1

      There's nothing new here. As someone who studies computer vision, these is just a standard technique. I could implement this entire software system in one evening of programming.

    23. Re:Playing Catch-up by bwcbwc · · Score: 1

      I think in this case the patent is a good one. The combination of 1) implementing the projection technology in a usable fashion and 2) the application of that technology to scanning books to avoid damaging them is the first "implementing an algorithm" patent that I can agree is truly innovative. The thing is, now that Google has shown the way for books, the application to other areas (for example projecting 3-D graphics on a computer screen or dual computer screens) becomes a lot more obvious. So it cuts out a whole bunch of other patent candidates.

      --
      We are the 198 proof..
    24. Re:Playing Catch-up by bwcbwc · · Score: 1

      [curmudgeon]When I was a kid we didn't have Slashdot. If we wanted news about computers and stuff we had to walk cross-country to Silicon Valley, meet with Bill Hewlett or Andy Grove and ask them what they were working on. Then we had to walk back home in the snow, type up the information on our Smith-Corona and snail mail it to everyone we knew.

      Now get off my lawn!
      [/curmudgeon]

      --
      We are the 198 proof..
    25. Re:Playing Catch-up by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Time travel probably.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    26. Re:Playing Catch-up by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      It's the same principle they use for adverts on Rugby pitches. The true shape is some distorted quadrilateral, but from the camera position the false perspective makes it look like there's a hoarding standing in the middle of the field.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    27. Re:Playing Catch-up by toddestan · · Score: 1

      This seems like one of those cases where you shouldn't do something even though you can. Instead of destroying rare or unique works, it pays instead to wait a few short years to get the same results without damaging the work.

  12. Mostest importanly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...who's flipping the pages?

    1. Re:Mostest importanly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That patent comes tomorrow...

    2. Re:Mostest importanly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I heard from some guy, somewhere, that on weekends the Oompa Loompas do it.

    3. Re:Mostest importanly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I heard from some guy, somewhere, that on weekends the Oompa Loompas do it.

      Yeah, but they will keep getting chocolate on the pages.

    4. Re:Mostest importanly... by Bob+Wehadababyitsabo · · Score: 2, Informative

      There are automatic page turning machines that use puffs of air and a stylus to move through a book.

      --
      fsck -u
    5. Re:Mostest importanly... by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 1

      OMFG this thing is Johnny 5! iNPuT INPUT inputinput InpUTT!!

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    6. Re:Mostest importanly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to, about a year ago. They employ temp people who basically wear pink condoms on their fingers to flip pages and use a foot pedal to take pictures. Then I got jury duty they let me go because I came back not scanning fast enough for em. Last I knew, they only had two or three sites with ~200 people each site. Truck load of books every other day or so. Incredibly inefficient having to scan every book twice.

    7. Re:Mostest importanly... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      they will keep getting chocolate on the pages.

      It could be worse, what if they employed Indians?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    8. Re:Mostest importanly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A literal army of underpaid temp workers that are expected to scan more than 10,500 pages in a single work day or face immediate termination. No joke.

    9. Re:Mostest importanly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Underpaid with respect to what? Not to be insensitive, but why should page-flipping be more than a minimum wage job? Cleaning toilets at Google HQ probably isn't a fun job either, but someone does that too.

      As far as 10,500 pages, it's not so crazy when you consider that it's an all-day job. A book shows 2 pages at a time during scanning, and assuming 8 hours with 15 minutes of break per hour, we get: 8*(60-15)*60 / (10500 / 2) = 4.1 seconds per page flip. It doesn't seem so bad in that context. In other news, a bricklayer is expected to lay around 1.5 tons of bricks per day, and export-grade-blueberry pickers are expected to pick around 43,000 individual blueberries in a day; numbers really add up when you are doing something all day. The jobs may be monotonous, but people are willing to do them for the price that is offered.

      Of course, when someone comes along to help by automating a job like this, people will then bitch that you are putting workers out of "an honest living".

  13. Obvious question... by jwriney · · Score: 1

    That's cool and all that, but who (or what) flips the pages?

    --riney

    1. Re:Obvious question... by Captain+Spam · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's cool and all that, but who (or what) flips the pages?

      Interns.

      --
      Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
    2. Re:Obvious question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grad students.

    3. Re:Obvious question... by ebingo · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are scanners that flip pages themselves like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyB5c3S4vzc&feature=related but I've seen somewhere (can't remember where though) a video of a scanner that was faster and didn't use vacuum to flip pages. It was quite a lot less noisy.

    4. Re:Obvious question... by trb · · Score: 2, Interesting
  14. Who is Hugh Pickens? by QuantumRiff · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Anyone else wondering lately if anyone else is submitting stories? Or is this guy the next Roland?

    --

    What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    1. Re:Who is Hugh Pickens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huge Pickens is the brother of Slim Pickens

  15. Unnecessary? by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Can't you just calculate the 3D model of the page based on a known stuff?

    Make a generic flattener filter that takes in page height and length, as well as page number.

    Manually tweak the output a bit for the first and last pages, and then intermediary pages can all be calculated with much more accuracy than you need.

    Hell, with this method any book "scanned" (using a camera from overhead) could be processed. Let those college kids who love Google so much run their books through your filters (and do the manual tweaks and verification) for you. They won't need anything but a tripod, a camera, and the book.

    1. Re:Unnecessary? by MaWeiTao · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Pages lie different from the front to the back of the book, and books are bound differently. So you can't use a generic model and expect it to be accurate in most cases.

      I actually think this is really cool because it seems to account for any scenario, including folded pages, I would assume. Although, I suppose that in extreme bends it might not be perfect, but certainly they just need to ensure that pages are adequately flat. It automates the entire process.

      I wonder if they've built an automated page-turning mechanism; I would assume they have. Just drop in a book and let the machine go to town on it.

    2. Re:Unnecessary? by againjj · · Score: 1

      Another poster shows that at least one book has been imaged with hand page turning. Two pages of fingers.

    3. Re:Unnecessary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hell, with this method any book "scanned" (using a camera from overhead) could be processed. Let those college kids who love Google so much run their books through your filters (and do the manual tweaks and verification) for you. They won't need anything but a tripod, a camera, and the book.

      Actually, if you want to "scan" a book in using your digital camera, you are better off with a "scaffold" rather than a tripod. I scanned in all my text books so I wouldn't have to carry them. Once I figured out the scaffold (elfa style wire shelf with a hole cut in it on a pair of boxes), I just adjusted lighting and camera compression settings until I got the results I wanted. Good lighting was key to get file sizes down - making the white space all the same "white". Once it was set up, it took about an hour to digitize a book.

      For the cost of an hour of my time and 1GB of space, I got a 0# copy of my text book for my laptop. Reading them on a pair of 24" portrait monitors was actually quite nice. Viewing them on my little laptop was adequate for checking up on the profs.

      There was a still slight curvature on my 700+ page texts, but the rest was unnoticable.

    4. Re:Unnecessary? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      I know they do - that's why you take a pic of the first and last pages first, and adjust those.

      The 3D model for all pages is the same - a sheet of paper of a certain length and width.

      The lay of the paper will be between the two extremes of the first and last pages.

      Effectively, you can define the lay of the paper as a simple curve in the x/y plane.

      The last page will be a flat line, the first page will be the most eccentrically curved.

      Page 3(4) lays almost identical to page 1(2).
      The curve is just a little flatter.
      Page 699(700) lays almost identical to page 701(702).

      Just tweak the first and last pages, and maybe some in the middle if you've got fucked up pages, books with different paper stock (maybe you're scanning Independence day and it's got stills from the movie in there on photo stock), etc.

      It's cheaper, it's simpler, and the task can be easily distributed to other libraries.

    5. Re:Unnecessary? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Simplistic bullshit. There are books that are made up in sections where it will lie quite differently on the the last page of one section compared to the first of the next. Have you ever seen a book?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    6. Re:Unnecessary? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Then apply it to each section.

      Entries that don't get reformed well won't OCR well.
      Entries that don't get OCRd well can automatically be flagged for manual inspection.

      You can have a confidence interval based on the type of text. A novel will be all text and you would expect it to OCR perfectly. A coffee table book will have mostly photos that won't be OCRd. A text book will have symbols that will fuck up OCR.

      Yes, what I suggested was simplistic. But it's not bullshit. It's the base idea on which you can build your tools. My suggestion is almost entirely software based - tripod, camera, book. My idea is cheaper, quicker, and far more distribution-friendly (even when you ignore the patents). The main idea is simple, and implementation can be as complex as you want it to be.

      Google models each page in (stereoscopic) 3D.
      My idea models a few pages, and intelligently adjusts the others, knowing they'll be nearly identical.

      Until Google ramps their tech up to include being able to scan pop-up books, the two methods will achieve nearly identical results.

      Do you think all Google is doing is using it's magic infrared cameras? Do you think there is no quality control, or that they don't have a problem? We've already seen pages come out where we see the flipper's hands (with cute pink latex gloves no less).

  16. Isn't that all known? by Toonol · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The technique is old, many years old. What is google's patent for? The use of a decades-old technique ON BOOKS?

    1. Re:Isn't that all known? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Cite needed.

      You really don't understand what a patent is, do you?
      Hint: you don't patent ideas.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Isn't that all known? by Toonol · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Looker."

      Building 3d computer models by stereoscopic analysis of project light patterns is at least twenty years old. In fact it mentions in the summary that it they use an established technique.

      As for your second comment... that's kind of my point. Since the technique is not new, the equipment is not new, what did google do that was new? Perhaps there is some actual invention in the process somewhere; but I don't have enough faith in the patent process to unquestioningly ASSUME that there is.

  17. Trouble catching up, unless.. by Bellegante · · Score: 0

    Unless I'm willing to just shred the books, of course. Cut em up, scan the pages individually, a lot less overhead than a 3d scanner.

    1. Re:Trouble catching up, unless.. by zehaeva · · Score: 1

      Good luck with asking that guy with the 1st edition of [insert incredibly rare 200 year old book here]. I'm sure he'll let you take it and butcher it.

  18. What are the chances... by Shaterri · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...that Google licenses this to scanner manufacturers and we see this at a consumer level at some point in the future? I know I'd pay good money for a book scanner that doesn't need to have a 'book edge' (which you already have to pay through the nose for)...

    1. Re:What are the chances... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...that Google licenses this to scanner manufacturers and we see this at a consumer level at some point in the future? I know I'd pay good money for a book scanner that doesn't need to have a 'book edge' (which you already have to pay through the nose for)...

      Not very likely. This type of image processing requires obscene amounts of memory and CPU time to do. It's easy for Google to do with their x86 machines but most scanner/printer company's use non-x86 style hardware because x86 is too power hungry, expensive, and really overpowered for scanning or printing. You might see it show up in high end 10k+ scanners.

    2. Re:What are the chances... by againjj · · Score: 1

      This is not about the imager per se. It is about the way to take images and post process them afterwords. Basically, they take three pictures, one in visible light and two in infrared, and then use the two in infrared to create a stereoscopic image and correct the image in visible light so it is not warped. From the patent, it does look like the imager is a camera, and not a scanner, since the description talks about a book resting on a platform with cameras above it. I do notice the patent makes no mention as to how the pages are turned. As noted above, as least some books' pages are turned by hand.

    3. Re:What are the chances... by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 1

      This type of image processing requires obscene amounts of memory and CPU time to do.

      That's OK; have you heard of Winmodems? Just imagine a cheap scanner that does all the correction in software on your PC.

  19. paper cut? by hansamurai · · Score: 0, Redundant

    But who turns the page?

    1. Re:paper cut? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously, they crowdsource it

    2. Re:paper cut? by againjj · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Another poster shows that at least one book has had pages turned by hand. Two pages of fingers.

    3. Re:paper cut? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      test post

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
  20. Already done by snapter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Snapter already does the compensation for curvature:

    I lets you use a digital camera to take a picture of an open book with a constant colour behind it.

    http://www.snapter.atiz.com/index.php

  21. Butt what about... by radiumhahn · · Score: 2, Funny

    Imagine what this technology could do for coworkers who like to photocopy their butts!

    1. Re:Butt what about... by DRACO- · · Score: 4, Funny

      Is this what the graphics department is talking about bump mapping?

      Karma burn.

      --
      Consider yourself blessed if you are sneezed on by a dragon and only get wet, it could have been a fireball.
    2. Re:Butt what about... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2, Funny

      That would be "bum mapping", obviously.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:Butt what about... by vaporland · · Score: 1

      if you sit on the glass of a regular copies, you get a pressed ham. with the google-scanner you will have to lie face down so that you scan your buttcheeks from above...

      --
      Ask Me About... The 80's!
    4. Re:Butt what about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank goodness. I wouldn't want any "p" in my bum!

  22. Probably a non-issue by DeadDecoy · · Score: 1

    That's probably a non-issue. Google, for legal reasons, only scans books they're permitted to, or whose copyrights have expired or been abandoned. (legal decision pending though). There are plenty of existing books, that if a publisher decided to be spiteful would amount to less than 1% of what is currently available to google and most works are now done via the computer so there would be an electronic copy somewhere. Google's pipe dream has been to organize the world's information. Therefore, if a group didn't want their work floating around on the internet or for scanning, there are plenty of practical and legal methods for doing so.

  23. Here's to you... by jimbudncl · · Score: 1

    Mr. Google book scanner page flipper guy!

    When the rest of humanity vomits reflexively at the thought of turning the pages of 7+ million books, you prevail by showing us that, even if your job sucks, you can take pride in it. Some how.

    So here's to you, crack open a cold Bud Light and keep on flippin'.

  24. Why is this a big deal? by MBoffin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't see why this is such a showstopper for other book scanning projects. Right off the top of my head I can think of three methods of dewarping book scans that have nothing do to with Google's methods. While Google's method is definitely quite interesting and seems like a great solution, it is by no means whatsoever the only way of accomplishing this.

    1. Re:Why is this a big deal? by BitZtream · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No one said its a big deal, its simply a 'neat' way to accomplish the goal. As geeks we are generally interested in these neat ideas.

      No one said Google was evil for patenting it.

      No one said Google now has a monopoly on book scanning.

      No one really said anything other than 'this is how they do it' and we all said 'neat'.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    2. Re:Why is this a big deal? by creative_Righter · · Score: 1

      Right off the top of my head I can think of three methods of dewarping book scans that have nothing do to with Google's methods. While Google's method is definitely quite interesting and seems like a great solution, it is by no means whatsoever the only way of accomplishing this.

      Please, do tell what your three methods are. None of the commercially available industrial scanners have solved this problem this well. You would have made a lot of money if your solutions are anywhere near as effective as this one. Really. Even if it was 10x slower. I bet you've never dealt with large scale non-destructive scanning of books, and that your methods make assumptions that do not hold for all books, or require many fine-grained measurements that require the book to be perfectly placed. Not only is this method highly accurate, it is fast, and make little assumptions on the nature of the binding, book thickness, what page your on (page 3 curves way differently than page 530), etc. This method is near perfect as far as I can tell. You take two IR pictures, stitch them together the only way possible, and move on. It's a prime example of an elegant solution to an old, tricky problem.

    3. Re:Why is this a big deal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Care to share them?

    4. Re:Why is this a big deal? by darkmeridian · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you're a super-genius. If there were three other ways to do this industrially, and no one has been able to do it before, you should patent your ideas. I'm betting, though, that there are significant difficulties or expenses with the other methods tha render them economically infeasible.

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
  25. You laugh, but look at this by langelgjm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    That's modded funny, but take a look at this.

    Maybe they use automated page turning machines for normal books, and turn pages by hand for older/more fragile works?

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    1. Re:You laugh, but look at this by KingPin27 · · Score: 1

      is it just me or do the page "flippers" actually look like flippers? does that mean if i have lobster claws for hands google would hire me?
      http://books.google.com/books?id=3R4NAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=summa+theologica+quincy+morgan&lr=&as_brr=1#PPA2,M1

      --
      "i lost my dignity on a slippery wiener"
    2. Re:You laugh, but look at this by StikyPad · · Score: 4, Funny

      Now THAT'S a page turner.

      Ba dum dum. Thanks, I'll be here all week! Try the veal, and don't forget to tip your waitress!

    3. Re:You laugh, but look at this by lithis · · Score: 1

      I think the strange appearance of the hands is due to the hand moving while being scanned. I remember, in high school, moving my hand inside a scanner while it was being scanned, causing all sorts of fun distortions: wavy fingers, extremely long fingers, etc.

    4. Re:You laugh, but look at this by Anenome · · Score: 1

      Dear god, what sort of hideous Lovecraftian monstrosity is pictured turning pages there??? O_O I can't tell if those are fingers or flippers. Burn it with fire!

      --
      "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist"
    5. Re:You laugh, but look at this by troll8901 · · Score: 1

      When I continued reading, a sentence entered my mind suddenly:

      Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet ...

  26. cool, but not patent-worthy by Chirs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is useful and interesting, but doesn't seem particularly novel.

    Projecting a known pattern onto a surface or using multiple cameras to determine the shape of a surface have been around for quite a while, so adding it to an OCR system doesn't seem like a big deal.

    1. Re:cool, but not patent-worthy by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Yes it is you clueless N00b.

      It's the mechanism and how they do it thats patented, not the idea.

      If you patent something that turns widgetrs over, I can still patent something else that turns widgets over, as long as is does it DIFFERENTLY.

      Seriously people, it's pretty simple.
      Yes the Patent office needs to be tuned, but there is nothing wrong with the patent. In fact, what you seem to suggested would make the system completly unusable.

      Idiot.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:cool, but not patent-worthy by VernoWhitney · · Score: 1

      FYI, the only thing that matters is whether it was novel and non-obvious as of September 13, 2004 (the filing date of the patent).

    3. Re:cool, but not patent-worthy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. The Robotic Sheep Shearing project in Australia was scanning a laser across a sheep tied to the device before 1990. They used a picture of the lines from a different angle to figure the variation of size of the sheep from a average sheep. Seems pretty obvious from there.

  27. goodluckwiththat(tm) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Umm.. you're aware that "anti-copy paper" is totally worthless against photographs, since any measures that work to defeat a photograph will also work to defeat normal reading too.

    Any attempts to make it impossible to detect an IR grid projected on the page will meet the same fate, since very-near-IR is just "red" to some people. (Replace "very-near-IR" with "R+epsilon" if you need further explanation.)

    What could you do?

    • Make it "black" (or well ... absorb infrared, but see comment about near-IR above)
    • Give it a mirror surface
    • Make it translucent/transparent

    All of the above hurt regular readability and/or violate the laws of physics, so nobody would want your book if you used any of them.

  28. Attention, Haycekians! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    "We want our floor space!"
    "We want our Library!"
    "And most of all, we want our REAL books!"
    - Your local Scooch-a-mout belief circle

    Actually, Google's non-invasive scanning approach would have prevented the belief circle collision, as it didn't require the shredding of any texts. Not sure how well it would scale to a Library's worth of books, however.

  29. That reminds me (off topic) by DCstewieG · · Score: 2

    Totally off topic here but I'll risk it.

    It really bothers me that neither Rock Band nor Guitar Hero can auto-calibrate the audio lag using the microphone. There's absolutely no reason I can see that they can't "listen" for the calibration beeps with the mic to get a perfect reading.

    1. Re:That reminds me (off topic) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uhhh doesn't Rock Band 2 do that with a miniature microphone (and light sensor) built into the revised guitar?

    2. Re:That reminds me (off topic) by DCstewieG · · Score: 1

      Woah! I own the damn thing and I had no idea. In my defense I play drums 99% of the time. :) Thanks!

    3. Re:That reminds me (off topic) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's for compensating for video lag, not audio lag. Not something you can detect with a microphone.

    4. Re:That reminds me (off topic) by lazy_playboy · · Score: 1

      Video lag is the main issue.

  30. Out of beta yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if this will every get out of beta.

  31. Shhh! Don't Give Them Ideas! by Arccot · · Score: 1

    If the publishers see this article, the next book I want to read is going to be written in capchas!

    The really hard ones without an audio guide!

  32. Re:As a writer, I did not give my permission to co by geekoid · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Cough, you don't ahve to. I can copy your book all gad damn day long and have not violated your rights or the copyright code.
    The moment I try to distribute them, then it's a copyright violation.

    It's called copyright, because the only reason one would copy it was to distribute it.
    Backup really wasn't an issue then like it is now.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  33. But can they remove finger-scans and hand-scans? by waterbear · · Score: 2, Interesting

    De-warping sounds useful, but there are problems that it probably won't solve --

    Like the operator who scans a book page with his/her fingers or hand stuck between the page and the scanner-glass. For example, the dreaded 'New York Hand' or its fingers can be seen occupying the place of part of the text or figures on many pages of books scanned for Google-Books from the New York Public Library. On some pages, the impression of the fingers is clear enough to show the rings worn by the Hand that was doing the scanning. :(

    It will take more than a de-warping patent to solve that one .....

    -wb-

  34. Cameras. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I once confessed to someone I wanted to digitize one of the books I have. (out of copyright for over 25 years now).

    Turns out he was involved with one of the big book-digitizing projects. He told me they had already digitized the book(s) I have. Besides that it was a translation, it turns out that their cameras broke down somewhere along digitizing this book And apparently this didn't get noticed. So over 90% of the digitized pages were blank.

    So personally, if they claim 8 million digitized pages, I'll believe 800 thousand for now, I need more proof to believe more....

  35. Who turns the pages ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do they have a patent for a mechanical arm that turns the pages ?

  36. Re:As a writer, I did not give my permission to co by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    You didn't buy my book - you copied it onto the internet for others to read - and thus stole from me.

    Just ask my friend Ursula K. LeGuin, you PIRATE.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  37. Seems like overkill by SpinyNorman · · Score: 1

    A typical book page has text on in in parallel lines which can be used to correct for curvature, straight-edge formatted into rectangles which can be used to correct for skew. Who needs another grid?

    If a page doesn't have suitable text on it (e.g. a graphic), then just assume it's warped the same as the previous page (the one it's lying on top of).

  38. Neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is one of those things that pretty much everyone thinks up, then decides "oh it would be too much trouble and in the end no one would really care about the slightly superior results anyway," and then nobody ever really does it. So Google went ahead and did it? Neat!

  39. De-Warp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's technology Jim but not as we know it :-P

  40. Wood chipper? by mkcmkc · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is way better than my idea, which was to throw the book into a wood chipper, scan the results, and then algorithmically reassemble them...

    --
    "Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
    1. Re:Wood chipper? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vernor Vinge's Rainbows End featured just such a machine.

    2. Re:Wood chipper? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quick, quick, patent it! I would love to subscribe your newsletter.

    3. Re:Wood chipper? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BogoScan?

  41. 7 million books? by 117 · · Score: 1

    TFA doesn't appear to be mention or even hint at how many books have been scanned. TFA does, however, mention the patent number 7508978....

  42. Re:As a writer, I did not give my permission to co by The+Empiricist · · Score: 3, Informative

    Cough, you don't ahve to. I can copy your book all gad damn day long and have not violated your rights or the copyright code.
    The moment I try to distribute them, then it's a copyright violation.

    Be sure to check out the exclusive rights in copyrighted works before making blanket assertions on what is and is not legal under copyright law. The exclusive rights granted by copyright include both reproduction and distribution. There are lots of exceptions to these exclusive rights, but an interpretation that completely eviscerates the exclusive right to reproduce a work is not supported by the Copyright Act.

  43. google patent listing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.google.com/patents?id=wga6AAAAEBAJ&dq=7,508,978

    Why is Google's site so much better than the USPTO's?

  44. Awesome! by Laxori666 · · Score: 1

    This is just awesome. A perfect example of using smart engineering to combine existing technologies to result in something effective and useful.

    1. Re:Awesome! by shentino · · Score: 1

      Not to mention a fine example of the USPTO not being complete asshats and actually granting a sane patent.

    2. Re:Awesome! by 12357bd · · Score: 1

      I am not so sure about that. The comments say they only patemted the math behind flat and distorted planes. Any time i hear the words 'math' and 'patent' in a single phrase, i get nervous.

      --
      What's in a sig?
  45. pantented? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's derivative.

  46. Well said. by Jartan · · Score: 1

    I'd also much rather hear how they managed the page flipping. Even with a lot of these machines they'd still have to achieve an impressive flipping rate without damaging the page being scanned.

  47. Re:As a writer, I did not give my permission to co by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    You're not doing a parody of my work, so you have no rights to it.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  48. Re:But can they remove finger-scans and hand-scans by petermgreen · · Score: 1

    On that note has anyone tried the option on google books to report unreadable pages and if so do they do anything about it?

    --
    note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  49. There is an easier, simpler way by Panoptes · · Score: 1

    Back in the early 70s a little firm in Yorkshire, the Scolar Press, specialised in the production and publication of high-quality facsimiles of old books (16th and 17th century). They were faced with the problem of scanning extremely rare and valuable volumes that were too fragile to be fully opened and placed on a flatbed scanner. Their solution was to invent a narrow glass prism that could be inserted into a slightly-opened book, and by clever optics produce an exact, undistorted, optical image of a page.

    1. Re:There is an easier, simpler way by 12357bd · · Score: 1

      That was intelligence at work. Great example of how a little thinking trumps computational brute force approaches.

      --
      What's in a sig?
  50. Google Scan My One-Of Book by Mana+Mana · · Score: 1

    I turned down a much smaller offer on a much less significant, but still very cool, two hundred year old angler's guide (with hand colored plates and original binding) for the same reason.

    Interesting! Would Google be interested in making it possible for you (me, them?) to have your unique book scanned?

    You want to sell it someday, but, you want it scanned and accessible for posterity, everyone wins.

    I hope Google is listening.

    1. Re:Google Scan My One-Of Book by jabithew · · Score: 1

      What's the point? If you've written it yourself why not just upload the pdf? Why take it from digital media to dead tree and back again?

      --
      All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
    2. Re:Google Scan My One-Of Book by troll8901 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think OP meant the book was 200 years old.

      Of course if OP is over 200 years old, we'd have to ask: What the heck is he doing fishing all the time??

    3. Re:Google Scan My One-Of Book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting! Would Google be interested in making it possible for you (me, them?) to have your unique book scanned? You want to sell it someday, but, you want it scanned and accessible for posterity, everyone wins. I hope Google is listening.

      I work at Google, but not on that project. I submitted a suggestion that it would be nice for individual collectors to be able to request that their rare books be scanned, since we can do it non-destructively. I have no idea if this would be practical for the current project to do, but someone who knows will see the suggestion at least. Thanks for the good idea, and I agree that this would be a case where everyone really wins.

  51. Sophistication by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This was sophisticated in 1990 (along with other morphing technologies seen in various music videos of the day). Today it is common sense.

  52. OCR by 12357bd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Google should return to the open source community a decent OCR app+engine. Tesserac+ocropus are just too little, and it's already too late.

    Windows already has decent ocr habilities, any hp scanner comes with decent image to page-document sofware. It's a shame that google, that has been build upon open source and has maybe the best ocr technology in the world, hasn't returned a competitive and free ocr solution for Linux.

    --
    What's in a sig?
  53. Can they also read shredded documents? by retroworks · · Score: 1

    I have seen paper shredding trucks arriving at the Google headquarters... I thought it was to take out confidential papers, but maybe it was a delivery?

    --
    Gently reply
  54. Why not just cut out the pages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't they just cut the pages out of the book?

    That way they have individual sheets and they can easily scan the pages without all this unnecessary over-engineering.

    1. Re:Why not just cut out the pages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't they slice you up when you go to the hospital? Hint: the books are worth more than you are.

  55. Re:But can they remove finger-scans and hand-scans by waterbear · · Score: 1

    On that note has anyone tried the option on google books to report unreadable pages and if so do they do anything about it?

    Yes, and while I guess instant action is hardly to be expected, on last check it had taken nearly three months after a report of three volumes with dozens of defectively-scanned pages, with nothing doing. (A separate message to the google people had produced only the (semi-automated?) response 'use the option'.) So, it seems like nothing is done about it.

    -wb-

  56. Austrian book scanner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the austrian book scanner is much more simple+efficient+speedy+page-protecting: http://www.treventus.com/index_en.html

  57. CAT scan it? by bjs555 · · Score: 0

    Why not lay the whole book flat in a CAT scanner and grab each page as a vertical slice? I'm kind of joking but maybe someone with CAT scanner experience knows how the machine would respond to the ink on each page and how thin each slice could be.