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Toshiba Sues Over DVD Patents
angry tapir writes "Toshiba has filed suit in a US court against Imation and several manufacturers and distributors of recordable DVD media for the alleged infringement of its patents. Imation and the other defendant companies named in the complaint do not have license agreements covering recordable DVD media with Toshiba or the DVD6C Licensing Group (DVD6C), and have engaged in the import and sale of recordable DVD media in the US without permission, according to Toshiba."
Well it's a good thing we have Bluray to protect us from those evil DVD manufacturers
Toshiba filed suit Thursday in a U.S. court against Imation and several manufacturers and distributors of recordable DVD media for the alleged infringement of its patents.
Toshiba licenses patents essential for meeting DVD format specifications, the company said on Thursday.
Imation and the other defendant companies named in the complaint do not have license agreements covering recordable DVD media with Toshiba or the DVD6C Licensing Group (DVD6C), and have engaged in the import and sale of recordable DVD media in the U.S. without permission, Toshiba said.
DVD6C was set up by nine developers of DVD technology and formats, to license jointly their DVD patents.
Eight companies, including companies in Taiwan and India, have been named as defendants in the suit before the United States District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin.
Toshiba's complaint seeks damages for past infringement, and requests that the court prohibit the sale, manufacture and import into the U.S. of recordable DVD media by the defendant companies.
The infringing recordable DVD media is sold in the U.S. under the Imation and Memorex brand names, Toshiba said.
Whale
Flash drives are ridiculously cheap, and substantially more convenient. DVD-Rs can either embrace dirt-cheapness and utter commodification, or they can die.
Toshiba's still getting over HD-DVD. They're making upscaling DVD players to compete with Blu-Ray. They lost a lot of face, and they're losing even more money. All the huge "we do everything" Japanese conglomerates (Toshiba, Hitachi, Sanyo) are in pain due to the stagnant economy. Perhaps these lawsuits can help restore them to profitability. I hope so because Toshiba is a darn fine company that makes out with your mom.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
In school, I used to get told that if I wanted to eat candy in class that I would have to provide enough for everyone. Toshiba brought enough for everyone, but some companies are trying to get more than their fair share by not paying for a license. Toshiba is completely in the right to demand payment for the licenses.
On the other hand, this is why killing HD-DVD was such an important thing. Putting two major patent holders (Toshiba and Microsoft) in charge of the direction of the de facto media format would have been disastrous.
Memorex make some of the better DVDRs I've used in the UK. I presume they sell the same ones in the USA.
Toshiba, OTOH, sell expensive ones that don't seem to last quite so long.
I presume therefore that it is cheaper to file a lawsuit in the US these days than it is to invest in R&D.
74.117.115.116 32.97.110.111 116.104.101.114 32.80.101.114 108.32.104.97 99.107.101.114
There ought to be a law against patent trolling
They can't use it. It's patented.
How exactly is this a patent troll? It seems to me that Toshiba retains the rights to patents legitimately obtained for actual innovation and have long been known about and licensed to others. Toshiba isn't holding the patents for ransom with outrageous licensing terms, submarining them, or keeping them a secret until after a standard was ratified and then springing them. I'd say that for a system that has all sorts of flaws and issues, this is a legitimate case where the system is working as it was intended in a legitimate fashion.
Humm, that's an interesting idea. Have you considered patenting it?
Found the others: CMC Magnetics Crop., Ritek Corp., Glyphics Media, Hotan Corp, Khypermedia Corp and Advanced Media Inc in the United States.
Some days it's just not worth
chewing through my restraints.
When are we going to get "open" disc formats, like an "open" HD optical disc? It would seem to me that something of that nature would help drive down the cost of this type of media.
Or am I being stupid again?
Which patents is it alleged that they are infringing? All of them? Some of them? Without knowing which patents they're talking about, we don't know what the fuck we're talking about. I see a lot of comments saying that Memorex &c should pay up... for what?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
So let's take the current case, for example.
I see no evidence the patent wasn't licensed in good faith, or that the patent-holder was deliberately sitting on the patent to increase potential damages. So not a troll. (Unless you define "troll" as 'used in a way you personally don't approve of', which is as good as meaningless.)
The companies they're suing aren't trying to "innovate"; they're just manufacturing and distributing an already-designed item.
Whatever you may think of this suit, it is a clear counter-example to your claim about patents in general.
In other words, the companies that make the media that Imation and Memorex actually sell. Most of these "generic" sounding brands are the makers of some of the finest media available. Ritek and Khypermedia are two of the best.
Are flash drives an open standard or are they also encumbered by patents?
Both USB and SD are patented, and inventions used in high-density NAND flash memory are probably patented too.
An argument could be made that from a physical perspective only, recordable DVD media is not dramatically different from recordable CD media.
The player technology, specifically with reference to encryption, interfaces and lasers, obviously would qualify for patent protection as they were novel inventions when they were invented.
Recordable media however, not quite so easy.
On another note, my personal belief is that when manufacturers create shell organizations to jointly patent their technology, it creates an insurmountable barrier to entry for competing manufacturers who weren't a party to the initial technology development. As both supporting and countering evidence, we had BluRay and HDDVD. The lack of quickly industry standardization led to two competing formats(bad) but also no collusion between manufacturers to prevent new manufacturers from entering(also bad, because it's really a monopoly).
Obviously, neither is perfect and something has got to change.
You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
Sony may not always play nice, but at least they haven't been charged with monopolistic business practices (that I'm aware of, anyway).
The USA investigated Sony for antitrust violations in 2008, as did China in 2007.
If USB flash drives aren't patent encumbered, can we please have our Linux installers readymade for them?
USB is patented, as is high-density NAND flash. And SanDisk took other USB flash drive makers to court in 2007.
While licensing consortia look at first glance to be Evil(tm), they actually do serve an important function. Many technologies are covered by several, perhaps dozens, of patents. Trying to negotiate individually with each company for licensing terms would be a legal and logistical nightmare - especially considering that if you miss one, you're screwed. Negotiating with a licensing consortium means that you only have to go through the licensing steps once, and you're covered for the duration of your license against all of the various patents covering the technology.
Yes, you still have to be careful inasmuch as some company may have decided not to get on board the consortium train, but the chances of this happening are reduced.
The true evil arises when licensing consortia impose "terms of use" on their licenses, such as by leveraging patents to enforce DRM restrictions on equipment manufacturers (DVD-CSS, AACS, HDMI, CableCARD, etc.).
For a time, certain arms manufacturers dominated the market because anything
that looked similar would likely trigger a lawsuit. So while it did take
quite literally centuries for a lot of the R&D in guns to come to fruition,
it also caused stagnation for decades as these patents sorted themselves
out.
Now that's just the collateral damage.
The real question remains unanswered: were they necessary?
17 years is a long time in the current tech market.
Contemplate the state of your Windows box 17 years ago.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Well, he was sort of right...
Though there's no Statuate of Limitations on patent infringement, but most states limit the scope of infringement to 6 years, regardless of the length of infringement, and in certain circumstances, damages awarded have been adjusted by the judge when the first party was clearly fully aware of the infringement.
Basically, We ALL know Memorex maxes blank DVDs... Toshiba should have easily kown this. No that memorex made a few billion selling disks, Toshiba want's it;s cut, and likely use a huge settlement to allow them to begotiate good terms on another patent they can't currently get memorex to license to them. However, if the judge knows this is the case, and knows that 5.5 years ago Toshiba could have brought this up, and memorex could simply have been forced to license the patent at a small cost then or abandon their sales, in which case Toshiba would not have their current claim. Thair fialure to file earlier could only reasonably be offset by proving it was not in their business interest to do so due to cost vs reward, but if by now cost vs reward is suddently justified, Laches might apply in addition to limitations on compensation.
It could indeed be very bad for toshiba, especially since MULTIPLE conpoeitors were in clear violation of the patent. it could even go back to the PTO to show that DVD was just a natural evolution of CD and their patent could be thrown out (though, that could also invalidate Blue-ray's patent too, since although it requires a red laser and more complex reading system, the disk media itself is not truly a great leap and could be considered in the right circles "evolutionary, not revolutionary" and that could strip Blu-Ray of a lot of market power (in the form of royalties).
There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
Your argument is weak at best.
If someone owns rights to something that you think you have 'invented', then you are not the inventor of said item. In which case, they are correct to have their way with your ass. Leave or bend over.
So lets take the NDA approach which in theory may sound like the best thing since sliced bread. However that little piece of paper has holds absolutely no weight if the company disolves, or if you have no proof of an employee selling your secret. Either of which doesn't matter anyway because you don't own any rights to your idea except with the guy you showed it to.
Come on, an NDA isn't going to stop anyone from ripping off your cute idea. In the end, it may give you satisfaction that you put that little shop out of business, all the while 20 other factories are happily churning out your device while you get nothing. Mean while your lawyer is sending you bills.
So what then happens to all that time and money you put into researching and building your cute little device? I guess that goes right out the window because now there are 50 other places making your cute device.
If you expect to make money off your idea, then you need to have it protected. Otherwise, you may has well just give it to a lawyer, because they are the only one that will make a profit from it
An argument could be made that from a physical perspective only, recordable DVD media is not dramatically different from recordable CD media.
Were that the case, DVDs would not exist. The media DVDs are recorded on was fully half the innovation, and it was a huge leap forward in optical recording technology. DVD-R can't get away with the "burn spot, not a burn spot, burn spot, not a burn spot" of CD-Rs. It is significantly more complicated, and combined with DVD writers and players, represents an innovative leap.
I don't know if you know this, but innovative leaps are considered quite novel, and usually get a patent. The DVD patents have been around for a long time now, and I'm surprised Imation would be dumb enough to try to sell blank discs without a license to the patent.
It's not exactly new.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
I hate CMC (memorex) even more. Their products are terrible wastes of plastic that would probably be slightly more useful as coasters (which they usually end up being anyways).
Their dual layer DVDs are a joke and your lucky if you get one dvd-dl out of a pack of 20 that works and lasts for more than a month or two.
Even their single layer DVDs are terrible. They only last a month or two.
And the worst part is CMC has a near monopoly on DVDs. I went to compUSA and they didn't have a single non-CMC brand. If you don't know who makes it...its probably CMC. HP, Imation, Memorex, Generic Brands, and now even single layer once holy Verbatims.
If CMC is sued out of existence for not paying Toshiba then they had whats coming to them. They certainly make terrible products that are a sheer joke. Who in their right mind would honestly trust their data on a CMC disc?
Maybe with CMC out of the picture we can actually find Taiyo Yudens in stores. (because lets face whenever you need more DVDs you need them right away and don't feel like waiting for shipping)