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Judge Reviewing Pirate Bay Trial Bias Is Removed
oh-my-god sends word that the Swedish judge assigned to review whether the trial judge in the Pirate Bay trial was biased has now been removed — for bias. Here's a local news account in Swedish, which Google fails to translate. We've discussed the convolutions of this case on more than one occasion.
he should have recused himself.
Bork Bork Bork !!!
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Are they trying to make their legal system look like a circus? If they are, they're succeeding, in spades.
Kind of wish you guys had waited for an article to be translated.
This is, after all, an English-language site. And submitters are not always the best judges of TFA.
I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
This doesn't even tell us how the judge was biased.
If anyone's wondering, both the original judge and the reviewing judge were part of the same copyright-supporting organizations.
Those poor bastards, they have us surrounded. Now we can fire at them in all directions!
Is it just me, or do he Pirates seem to be more virtuous than the Judges?
Is it me? Or do Norway and Sweden look like a two headed flacid penis?
Google fails to automatically translate the page, but not the content. Translation follows:
"What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
/)
We apologise again for the fault with the judges. Those
responsible for sacking the judges who have just been sacked
have been sacked.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
...and the trial will be completed at the very last minute and at great expense. (cue llamas)
New judge in Pirate Bay case
Published: May 20, 2009, 10.11. Last changed: May 20, 2009, 17.04
The Court of Appeal replace the newly appointed judge in Pirate Bay case. The question of the district court was biased now determined by three judges from another department.
- The information may be mentioned that none of these are or have been members of any of the compounds are present in the case, write the court of appeal in a press release.
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Following reports that the newly appointed Court of Appeal judge in Pirate BaymÃ¥let previously been a member of the same compound as the copyright jÃvsanklagade District Court judge, asked the Court of Appeal president yesterday to hear unless another law departments should determine jÃvsfrÃ¥gan.
Today came the decision: Designated hovrÃtt Council Ulrika Ihrfelt, who works for the department which has a special focus on copyright and intellectual property goals, may not adjudicate the issue of the district court was biased.
Instead, jÃvsfrÃ¥gan be moved to another court of appeal of the departments and review by the department head, hovrÃtt lagmannen Anders Eka together with the Court of Appeal councils Christina Jacobsson and Ulrika Beer Grehn.
"The reasons for this is to jÃvsfrÃ¥gan to be reviewed by other judges than those which may subsequently come to try the case and that, having regard to the contents of jÃvs-opposition, deemed appropriate to jÃvsfrÃ¥gan be determined on a department that has not specialized on copyright, "writes the court of appeal in the press release.
JÃvsfrÃ¥gan should be treated with priority. Court of Appeal president Fredrik WersÃll expect that decision may come "in a maximum of a few weeks", states the TT.
The Court of Appeal will not go ahead with the Pirate Bay case until jÃvsfrÃ¥gan settlement. If NorstrÃm would be judged as biased, the goal can be sent back to district court and the ruling reopened.
Several of the condemned pirates defense lawyers argue that NorstrÃm been biased, particularly because he is a member of several compounds related to copyright. The four were sentenced to one year's imprisonment and to pay damages of 30 million.
No. Nothing appears to have happened to original verdict yet, as the original judge's bias has not been evaluated. The judge who was judging the bias of the original case was dismissed, so I assume they must restart the review the bias of the original case, and then, if needed, have a retrial. Unless they run out of judges.
-mkb
hahaha, I literally just spent 3 minutes trying to figure out why the ", me." was there. /facepalm
sigs... don't talk to me about sigs....
The Court of Appeals is replacing the newly appointed appelate court judge in the Pirate Bay-case. The issue of whether the local court Tingsrätten had a inappropriate bias will now be decided by three judges from a different department.
- It can be noted that none of these three are, or have been, members of any of the groups that are relevant in this case, the Court of Appeals write in a press release.
After learning that the newly appointed Court of Appeals judge in the Pirate Bay case has been a member of the same Intellectual property industry group as the local judge accused of bias, the president of the Court of Appeals was asked yesterday to try whether another department should rule on the issue of bias.
Today the decision was made: The appointed "Hovrättsrådet" Ulrika Ihrfelt, who works in the department specialized in cases on copyright/creators' rights and intangible assets, is not allowed to judge whether the local court had inappropriate bias when judging the case -"varit jävig".
Instead, the issue of bias will be moved to another department of the Appelate Court and be tried by the manager of that department, Anders Eka, and judges Christina Jacobsson and Ulrika Beergrehn.
"The reasons for this is partly that the issue of bias ought to be tried by other judges than those who could be asked to later judge in the actual case, and partly in consideration of the objection to the bias, it has been deemed appropriate that the issue of bias is decided by another department not specialized in copyright", the court writes in the press release.
Then issue will be decided with priority. The president of the Court of Appeals, Fredrik Wersäll, is counting on the decision coming "within some weeks at most", according to the news agency TT.
The Court of Appeals will not start handling the Pirate bay-case until the issue of bias has been decided. If Norström is considered biased the case can be sent back to the local court and the verdict will be torn up.
The defense lawyers of several of the convicted pirates claim that Norström had a bias, i.e through being a member of several industry groups connected to copyright. The four were sentenced to one year in prison and damages of 30 million SEK (ca $4 million).
(end of article)
Note that in Swedish, having had bias is almost the same as having been a dickhead. "varit jävig" vs. "varit jävlig".
A summary here:
The prejudice question will now be tried by three other judges from another department that doesn't have intellectual property rights as a specialty.
The question will have priority and will take a few weeks to process. If it is decided that Norström had a prejudice the case will have to be retried. But if it's decided that there was no prejudice then the case can be appealed at a higher instance.
So the case was originally handled by a department specialized in immaterial rights. Obviously many members of that department are members in organizations handling the immaterial rights or have connections with such organizations.
It may be interesting to see where this ends. What's at stake here is the trust in the legal system. And if it's decided that there was a prejudice then the whole department handling immaterial rights are essentially disqualified from the action.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Yes, I know where I'm posting.
But man, you watch too much porn.
And apparently freaky stuff, too.....
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
Natural Justice?
Is that where the lions that team up to bully those poor baby oxen on YouTube get chased into a river full of crocs by the vengful herd?
Yes, yes.
Looks even more like a dong on the euro coins
Are these people professionals or not?
Come on, man, they're literally people first and foremost! Look at all the so-called "professionals" working in the American financial industry and tell me that they were working for the good of their companies. Being bailed out by the gubmint is not a bullet point on any company's resume!
For clarity: the judge that is no longer judging the TPB-judge is a woman. Also, one of the three judges that are to take her place is a member of the same research group as two of the prosecutors lawyers. The show must go on!
I have a question. Why does Slashdot constantly side with PirateBay? You are aware that they were running a major piracy ring, right? That they were providing the torrent trackers that facilitated the distribution of copyrighted materials?
Don't you guys ever wonder why big-name developers like John Carmack don't post here anymore? Slashdot has adopted a position that it is completely okay to rip people off and never pay them for their work. The site mindlessly posts two or three pro-piracy articles per day to appease the masses, who will subsequently drive up ad revenues by clicking and posting about how evil they think capitalism is.
All of this is amusing considering Slashdot has threatened websites in the past for posting Slashdot's stories--due to copyright infringement. And Slashdotters love to make a big deal when a company "steals" GPL code. Apparently, piracy isn't theft and copyrights don't matter except when it benefits you.
TingsrÃtten is the lowest court, all cases go before a judge and three lay assistants that judge the case on the evidence.
HovrÃtten is the next level, its the district appeals courts of Sweden. A large number of cases end up here and are judged by three judges. Pirate Bay was always going to end up there since its such a difficult case.
HÃgsta Domstolen is the Supreme Court of Sweden, it only handles very sticky cases and those that set precedents.
What has happened is that the lawyers for the Pirate Bay people have appealed to HovrÃtten and also put forward a claim that the original judge in TingsrÃtten is biased due to his membership in an association for copyright interests. The HovrÃtts-judge that was going to assess this claim has previously been a member of such an association and has because of this been recused. A panel of three senior judges in the HovrÃtt is now going to first assess the TingsrÃtten judges possible bias and then make a determination if the trial needs to be remade in TingsrÃtten with a new judge, or if it should be redone in HovrÃtten. These three have no affiliations with special interest groups on copyright and do not practice that kind of law.
Im quite pleased actually that our Judicial system is so carefully dealing with the whole Pirate Bay mess.
Now the world has gone to bed, Darkness won't engulf my head, I can see by infra-red, How I hate the night.
I side with PirateBay in this particular instance because there **was** a biased judge hearing their case, no more, no less.
In the interest of justice and fairness that a judicial system is supposed to have, I can only think that you would side with PirateBay also.
If not, then there must be some other agenda.
Some activities that are considered wrong in some cultures are perfectly fine in others. What's wrong is for huge powerful cultures to pressure everyone else to adopt their moral code.
The US has Florida; area, 170,304 km^2.
Europe has Norway and Sweden; total area, 835,216 km^2.
Is it any wonder we're so obsessed with having guns over here?
That activity is not considered wrong in my culture.
Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
I thought Norway WAS Sweden.
You know, like Holland and Deutschland. Damned Dutch. Good waffles though.
Because we're geeks, and we understand geek issues before the average non-geek begins to grasp it.
Or, in other words... because they're right.
The cool O with the slice is only used in fucking Norway and pleasant Denmark, not Sweden thou. We use the way cooler dots, ö.
FYI.
Seriously. I'm sure the media lobby there is powerful, and I know that Sweden also has a significantly sized Pirate Party... but there has to be plenty of judges that are members of neither, and have no special reason to especially support either side.
I have a question. Why does Slashdot constantly side with PirateBay? You are aware that they were running a major piracy ring, right? That they were providing the torrent trackers that facilitated the distribution of copyrighted materials?
Because they're like our modern day Robin Hood. They rob from the rich and corrupt, and give to the poor, in a sense.
In reality, they've abided by Swedish law. They do not give people illegal files. They do not host illegal files. They do not even link to illegal files. What they do is link to links that will link a computer to what could be illegal files (or legitimate files). They're just total bastards about it because someone who doesn't like their stuff being distributed by people who their links linking linking to is in a big huff and can't legally do anything about it, so they're breaking greater laws to bring these Robin Hoods to justice (through federal corruption).
So in a sense, you're watching two guys fighting it out. One is neutral (not good or bad, technically, as they facilitate both with their hands off the watch) and the other is evil. It's allowable for us to boo and hiss the villain when he's brought a gun to a knife fight. It's also allowed for us to cheer the morally-neutral anti-hero as he brazenly swashbuckles and insults the villain's poor taste of dress (all the while winking at the crowd with a smile that says "It's ok guys, I got this!").
I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
You know, "-1 Flamebait" is no substitute for "-1 Disagree and wish to censor". I don't agree with bonch either, but his post is certainly no flamebait.
I can't answer your question regarding why Slashdot sides with TPB, but I can tell you why *I* side with TPB. I believe that when copyright is no longer primarily used to protect the artist but to protect the publisher, something's really, really wrong with it. And when publishers use this to their advantage and charge people prices they cannot afford, it's just reasonable for them to illegally download stuff. I do not think it is ok to rip off the devs of software or musicians, but I also disagree with it being ok to rip off customers. I download music which is either not available in my country or not available without paying craploads of money for it (sorry, but I refuse to pay ~30â for a CD, especially when the artist which I want to support only gets, say, a third of that cash anyways). I download games because I do not want to support a publisher which uses extremely restrictive DRM and installs rootkits on your PCs (and also because these games are not available in my preferred language in my country and importing is extremely expensive thanks to taxes).
Also, re:GPL...while stealing both GPL code and stealing closed source code is wrong, there is a significant difference. People who release their code under a GPL license want that other people learn from it, evolve it, etc, but also wants that other people can learn from the evolved code as well. Using code from the GPL is fine, but other people should be able to learn from *your* code as well.
A good education is a bit like a STD - it makes you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and gives you a desire to spread it.
One Sentence: Steamboat Willie is STILL under copyright. The man has been dead more than half a century and his FIRST work, made when cars were started with cranks and antibiotics were but a dream, are STILL under copyright. Thanks to the blatant and illegal bribery of our elected officials copyright terms have been extended to virtual eternity and the public domain gets raped of content that should already be ours. US copyright law was a contract-nothing more. In return for a LIMITED monopoly on a work you gave up the rights to that work to a public domain that ALL could benefit from. Now the rights of BOTH the artists and the citizens have been taken by greedy multinational middle men.
So do most folks give a flying fuck if you rip those thieves off? Not really. Hey, we'll just call it Hollywood accounting.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Obviously, in /. universe, a judge who respects the law of copyright is biased. In other, alternative, universes judges who respect the law are respected.
He didn't respect the law of copyright. He respected the copyright holders more than the law. That was the claim of bias. The Pirate Bay is operating under the letter of Swedish law and this judge allowed the twisting of the law enough so these fellows could be convicted. That's not respect, that's abhorrence.
I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
Major piracy ring? They ran a search engine that provided links to torrents which accessed trackers which then gathered information on thousands of computers. No copyrighted material was hosted by them, nor produced by them.
Thus the fight against Pirate Bay is more against an ideology rather then any actual law.
The people on slashdot are not downloading JUST TV Shows and Movies, some of us turn to piratebay like sites for documentaries, tutorials and all sorts of things that in no way relate to SONY or MGM.
I for one am happy that Slashdot has fairly reported the clear biased and corrupted trials against these individuals. If not in the name of free and open information, but in the name if justice.
> Why does Slashdot constantly side with PirateBay?
Because many of us think private, non-commercial filesharing is not wrong, so it shouldnt be illegal, _regardless_ of the fact that authors of the shared stuff think otherwise.
> Don't you guys ever wonder why big-name developers like John Carmack don't post here
> anymore?
Because they prefer to live in denial in their ivory tower and dont like to be constantly reminded by slashdot how real life out there looks like? (Oh irony.)
> that it is completely okay to rip people off and never pay them for their work.
Copying, sharing culture is _not_ wrong. Everybody not OK with the fact that free people fileshare freely should _STOP WORKING_ in a job where he hast to constantly bitch about filesharing. Or he can keep on, but has to come up with a business model other than "selling copies" because it's 2009, and everybody of us can manufacture their own copies themselves, we do not need any "official" copies any more, thank you. Adapt or fucking perish. We wont abstain from using new technology in order to make your business model still work like it did in the 50's.
> clicking and posting about how evil they think capitalism is.
We would not have to do this if you and your likes wouldnt keep clicking and posting about how evil you think a free culture is, and how harder the for-profit censorship called copyright should be.
> And Slashdotters love to make a big deal when a company "steals" GPL code.
So? You forget that the only point of comming up with the GPL was to "effectively remove copyright" in the GPLsphere. Although the GPL is enforced by copyright, the underlying goal of "free software" is to effectively destroy copyright.
> Apparently, piracy isn't theft and copyrights don't matter except when it benefits you.
When a company "steals" GPL code, it gets it out of copyright-free GPLsphere, so yes, from the point of view of the GPL, thats fundamentally bad.
I have a question. Why do you side with the RIAA? You are aware that they are running a major frivolous lawsuit campaign, right? That they are extorting settlement money by threatening to sue the weakest and poorest, those least able to defend themselves, irrespective of any evidence? It's one thing to side with copyright, quite another to side with the MAFIAA.
How do you know whether big names post here anymore? The MAFIAA has adopted a position that it is completely okay to rip people off and never pay them for their work. Hollywood accounting has burned a lot of artists. The MAFIAA thinks capitalism is evil, and has worked very hard to eliminate all competition. Nor have they restrained themselves from driving up ad revenues by trying to force DVD owners to watch commercials before being allowed to view the main feature.
The MAFIAA continues to falsely push claims that piracy is theft. The only copyrights that matter to MAFIAA members are the ones they can control. They will violate others' copyrights, and if caught, will refuse to pay until they're at least threatened with a lawsuit. What's that, you want to see the evidence they have indeed done that? Well, where's your evidence that Slashdot has done what you say?
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
Actually, there is a very good reason to support The Pirate Bay. It hurts the *AA.
And we need to get those reduced to oblivion so copyright can once again be a reasonable tradeof between the authors and the consumers.
Because when laws get passed on behalf of single companies (Disney, I'm looking at you), then there is something deeply rotten. And bankruptcy of those media companies would be a good thing. So anything along that path is a good idea.
There is also this thing that laws which are stupid or inapplicable need to be exposed. In the hope that those who passed them get voted out of office (yeah, I'm an optimist).
Unfortunately, TPB also helps pirate software, which in turn helps the likes of Microsoft, because of the network effect. So nothing is perfect, I guess.
I would say many Slashdotters usually side with Pirate Bay because they are in most cases geeks, and geeks by nature tend to be pro-individual to the point of being anti-establishment.
However, in this case your characterization is inaccurate. The Pirate Bay was not "running a major piracy ring." They were providing a technology that enabled the masses to run their own piracy ring(s), but that is different. To rework an old analogy: It would be inaccurate to say that handgun manufacturers were robbing gas stations. It can be argued that they enable illegal activities, but if they were held legally responsible for the actions of the users of their product and forced to shut down, the 2nd Amendment would effectively be right out the window.
The xxAA groups found they had too much trouble catching and prosecuting the innumerable points of copyright infringers, so they decided to aim at a larger target and pray they could take it down. They are holding The Pirate Bay responsible for what their users did with the technology, and in the first pass they seem to be getting away with it so far.
Were they doing something wrong? I don't think so, but that's not really up to me to make the final decision. Certainly they weren't "running a piracy ring" as you claimed.
I have a question. Why does Slashdot constantly side with PirateBay? You are aware that they were running a major piracy ring, right? That they were providing the torrent trackers that facilitated the distribution of copyrighted materials?
You sir are a troll, and you are completely ignorant if you believe this! The true crux of the case is the fact they have done nothing illegal. Sure, maybe American law says they have (incorrectly), but in their country everything they have done is 100% legal *WHETHER OR NOT YOU LIKE IT, OR WHETHER YOU DEFINE IT AS 'PIRACY'*.
TFA is directly addressing the fact that the Judges have been removed because they are a part of the organization who wants TPB prosecuted-- in itself a conflict of interest at best, at worst illegal.
We need to remember that despite the way America and the European Union would like it to pan out, we do not have the authority to force other autonomous countries to abide by our own interpretations of OUR OWN laws; and even if we did, I would hope to god that it would be over something more important than shared mp3's and movies... say how about prosecuting war crimes on behalf of the Bush/Cheney administration? Surely taking a few-hundred-thousand lives is illegal too?
I am open source, and Linux baby!
I have a question. Why does Slashdot constantly side with PirateBay?
Slashdot is a community made up of thousands of people. I doubt there is any subject, including whether or not slashdot sucks, that the community has a consensus on.
You are aware that they were running a major piracy ring, right?
I'm not aware of that at all. Considering they do not handle any copyrighted information and no copyrighted information flows through any servers they control, i'd say it's a pretty big stretch to say they are running a major piracy ring.
That they were providing the torrent trackers that facilitated the distribution of copyrighted materials?
They provided text files that told people where people were providing files to download. Some of those people were providing copyrighted content.
Telling someone that someone else is selling or giving away content is not illegal, at least not where i am. Nor should it be illegal in my opinion.
Don't you guys ever wonder why big-name developers like John Carmack don't post here anymore?
Because he's busy building space ships?
Have you had specific conversations with Mr. Carmack about his posting habits or are you just making shit up? My suspicion is that you are making shit up.
Slashdot has adopted a position that it is completely okay to rip people off and never pay them for their work. The site mindlessly posts two or three pro-piracy articles per day to appease the masses, who will subsequently drive up ad revenues by clicking and posting about how evil they think capitalism is.
Again, Slashdot, as a community, doesn't really have a consensus about anything, including if Microsoft is evil and if the GPL is a good thing.
Also, if the goal is to drive up page views, the best way to do that is to post articles that are at odds with the consensus as that will cause flame wars. Nothing generates page views and comments like a contrarian point of view stated as if it were a fact.
All of this is amusing considering Slashdot has threatened websites in the past for posting Slashdot's stories--due to copyright infringement.
Do you have a citation for this? I do not recall that ever happening, which is not to say it didn't, but that i don't know what you are talking about.
And Slashdotters love to make a big deal when a company "steals" GPL code. Apparently, piracy isn't theft and copyrights don't matter except when it benefits you.
In some slashdotters that apparent dichotomy does exist. I would guess it has to do with intent. People who favour the GPL see it as an important tool for protecting the freedoms of the users of software. Some of these people probably also view the behaviour of the record and movie industries as an abuse of the users of their products and consider the nullification of their copyrights as an appropriate punishment for their actions.
Of course some people also just want stuff for free.
But to try to make sweeping conclusions about the thousands of people who read slashdot based on the one or two hundred people who post on these stories is not in any way valid.
For my part, i am on the side of the pirate bay because i don't think they've done anything illegal. The police and copyright holders should be going after the people seeding the files, not the people saying "those guys are seeding files". If getting the seeders is too technically hard for them, that's too bad. They shouldn't get to go after innocent people just because it's easier.
Darth --
Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
The site mindlessly posts two or three pro-piracy articles per day to appease the masses, who will subsequently drive up ad revenues by clicking and posting about how evil they think capitalism is.
Capitalism is about competition. Intellectual Property is about suppressing competition by granting monopolies. IP laws are inherently anti-capitalistic. It seems the modern definition of capitalism is government ensuring companies profit despite their successes or failures. That really is corporatism.
Hi there.
I'm an indie developer who makes games from his spare bedroom. I earn less than most software developers do, and have fuck all pension plan or work benefits,
The piratebay make it possible for people to rip me off and take a game that takes me 10 hours a day a year to make... for free.
The piratebay is funded by a right wing millionaire businessman closely connected to fascist and racist organisations in Sweden. Google 'carl lundstrom' for details. TPB has many adverts and is one of the most popular sites on the whole web. It also has minimal bandwidth costs because it makes a big fuss out of not hosting anything.
In short, it makes a mega-fuckton of ad money from other peoples work.
Explain to me again how thepiratebay earning money from ads whilst giving away my work for free, and lining the pockets of its millionaire founder is anything like a fucking robin hood?
They are thieves with an awesome PR dept. Its sad to see so many otherwise reasonable and nice people fall for the blatant bullshit about them being heroes. This is PR spin. How much of that money they collected in donations to buy an island did they stick in their bank accounts?
Where is the prominent spot on TPB to promote non-riaa bands and indie film producers? where is the 'free speech and pro-democracy' section on their homepage?
Face facts, TPB is about getting ad impressions for distributing the same mass-market shit everyone pretends to hate.
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
Walt Disney Co. has asked the Los Angeles Superior Court to dismiss a lawsuit raised almost 12 years ago by a family-owned firm that owns the rights to Winnie the Pooh which alleges that Disney owes it merchandising royalties of hundreds of millions of dollars.
Disney has been mainly losing but has managed to draw this out, as far as I can tell, to this very day (18 years). On Monday, June 26, 2006, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the case, thus sustaining the Appeals Court ruling. (cited reference)
Or maybe not. Disney managed to drag out the proceedings long enough that eventually they won the proceedings in the state of California, in the end. It seems that the other side had hired the wrong P.I. after starting to get crazy about Disney's creative accounting (there was a claim that Disney had been destroying evidence in this case, also).
And as far as I can see, the Federal lawsuit which was threatened by the rights owners isn't going to finish in the near future, even as the big D continues to rake it in, year after year.
Some additions to the translation:
"jÃvsanklagade" --- "jäv" means bias, "anklage" means accuse, "anklagede" means accused (i.e. defendant).
"jÃvsfrÃ¥gan" --- "frågan" is derived from question; "the question of bias"
"Today came beslutet:" --- today it was decided.
"immaterialrÃttsliga" --- immaterial rights or immaterial law. That is, intellectual property.
"jÃvs-invÃndningen" --- complaint, objection (regarding bias).
"specialinriktning" --- special interest? Unsure about this one.
(I'm Danish, Danish and Swedish are somewhat similar languages. I'm not 100% sure, but quite close.)
You're not sweden are you? Because you actually miss a very major point there. In here judges think about the actual purpose aswell and I dont think its a secret to anyone what The PIRATE Bay was doing. So if you intentionally assist with something, you will be charged for it no matter if you circumvent the law with some stupid way. The intention here counts a lot more than what I've heard it counts in USA, and you have to take that into consideration aswell. I dont think the pirate bay guys did..
ah cool. as usual, slashdot mods me flamebait rather than try and explain why I'm wrong by replying. Some people REALLY don't like carl lundstrom's name being mentioned. Does the 'keep sweden white' politician somewhat embarrass the left-wing supporters of 'free content' maybe?
Some background:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lundstr%C3%B6m
"According to the Swedish leftist magazine Expo, LundstrÃm is a financier of various right wing organizations and was a member of the nationalist organization Bevara Sverige Svenskt ("Keep Sweden Swedish"). Some years later he was noted as a financier of the Swedish Progress Party. He left the Progress Party in 1992 for the newly founded New Democracy.
However, when LundstrÃm's membership in New Democracy was brought to attention by the media the party's leadership demanded his expulsion. In March 1992, LundstrÃm left the party and, according to himself, politics. However, according to Expo, LundstrÃm has later donated money to the National Democrats and other "far right parties" and also ordered "national socialist and revisionist material from white power companies"."
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
Nobody can compete with free...
Tell Apple that.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
I must disagree with the person who modded you as "Flamebait" as you state a good case. The issue is, though, that The Pirate Bay are not the guys distributing your files. The guys who post it on The Pirate Bay are the ones that are responsible for that.
I, personally, find The Pirate Bay's neglectful attitude to be morally deviant, but I find the RIAA to be morally abject. I figured my comparison to Robin Hood to be quite accurate -- since he, too, was but a thief (even a robber) with good PR. Perhaps you'd be more apt to agree on comparing the Pirate Bay to Godzilla? He's lumbering along, breathing thermonuclear breath and smashing buildings on innocent people... but the guy he's up against is looking to completely eradicate mankind. I find myself cheering for Godzilla when the two fight. I don't condone Godzilla's destruction, but like I said: in the battle between neutral and evil, I'll choose neutral.
In the meantime, I do wish you the best of luck in your business endeavors.
I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
the Swedish judge assigned to review whether the trial judge in the Pirate Bay trial was biased has now been removed - for bias.
We apologise again for the fault in the subtitles. Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked have been sacked.
> The piratebay make it possible for people to rip me off and take a game that takes me 10
> hours a day a year to make... for free.
If you can not bring your current business model in line with the information-sharing-reality, stop it and go do something that cant be easily copied and reproduced at zero cost, with a tool anybody can afford.
> In short, it makes a mega-fuckton of ad money from other peoples work.
Proof other than your own claim?
> Explain to me again how thepiratebay earning money from ads whilst giving away my work
> for free,
They arent giving your work for free, they built an content-agnostic infrastructure people can use to easily connect and share stuff. They may profit from those people, but so do their ISPs.
What's wrong is for huge powerful cultures to pressure everyone else to adopt their moral code.
Umm, Isn't this how its been done for 1000s of years? I guess I don't entirely know what kind of 'pressure' was put on this 'culture'. I would assume economic pressure of some sort. This is how society works, always has and always will. All the way from your corperate job to the government.
I agree with bonch's post completely. What I do find comical is how the judge is 'flagged' as guilty of bias without being proven and that the pirates are inoscent even after being convicted. This is more about slackers that are used to getting everything for free, now loosing that ability.
If he is guilty of bias, then absolutely a new trial is warrented. Will it change the outcome? I sincerely doubt it.
Without a doubt, what they were doing was wrong or 'biased' toward ripping people off, choose your term. They made the conscience choice to do what they did. The owners of the stolen material simply asked the legal system of that country to help put an end to it. Clearly it was in their interest to do so.
How is it capitalism if you don't have to compete with my product, but just give my product away and claim it is yours?
You are begging the question. You assume that so-called Intellectual Property is a product. That's exactly what is being disputed. It's only a "product" because the government says it is. In true capitalism, the government wouldn't create a false monopoly.
I'm glad CCP had to make eve on-line rather than just making Elite Online.
Pick a better example next time. Since most of the time the money made from an MMORPG is from selling the service (the server where you play), rather than the game itself, your example is a counterpoint to your argument.
Red Hat is able to "give away" their product with Fedora and even have it "stolen" by the distributors of CentOS, yet they keep on making money because they sell a service, not an imaginary product.
Yes, I agree to an extent. The RIAA was not the only place that was applying pressure. What about all the software companies? Do they fall into the same morally abject group as the RIAA?
Only if they're buying judges and legislators, demanding extradition from countries that don't offer extradition, committing perjury, monopolistic business practices, and making me listen to "Love Hurts" by Linkin Park every [bloody] time I turn on the radio in my car. Let them seek reimbursement if they can find the legal grounds to do so -- especially when they've made the trade between producer and consumer as accomodating as possible toward the consumer... but it would be more fair if they were able to find the jerkoffs who placed the pirated content on The Pirate Bay to begin with and prosecute them instead.
I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
I think you are modded off-topic rather than wrong. Plus reiterating that nutty rant from The Register. At the end of the day, how does donating money to an online directory, pretty much the equivalent of Google but with less censorship, like TPB "keep sweden white"? It doesn't make any sense.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
Exactly. Remember how Disney's fortune was built on the original ideas of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Pinocchio, Cinderella, Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, Sleeping Beauty, the Jungle Book, Robin Hood, Winnie-the-Pooh, the Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, Hercules, and Tarzan?
That's how animators should do things. Original characters and settings. Not just ripping off the work of others because they're long dead and can't complain about it.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
The piratebay is funded by a right wing millionaire businessman closely connected to fascist and racist organisations in Sweden. Google 'carl lundstrom' for details.
Wow, that I did not know. I don't understand how that could possibly be flamebait. That is straight-up "informative" goodness.
Furthermore, your post reiterates an important point: Piracy steals from everyone; not just the rich.
Everyone around here likes to believe in the goofy dot-com, Web 2.0, long-tail, free economics model of "new capitialism," but really, it's the same crazy bullshit as the credit crisis--a lot of people living high on the hog without any actual value being created.
Add to that the strong FOSS bias--the idea that a bunch of people in their spare time can create something better than something a bunch of people paid to do the same can, and reality just goes right out the window.
People don't have the time or inclination to work for free; they really do need to be paid for their time and effort so that they can do their best work. The fact that, these days, you actually have to posit that as a revolutionary concept is frightening. When you use the fruits of others' labor; you need to pay them. If we don't do that, we fall apart.
Finally, I think the "screw the big middleman corporations" is just an excuse. The truth is that its cheaper and easier to get what you want, and that's why people do it. Why do I know? Because here I have to admit that I download a lot of American TV (I live in Japan). Much of it is available on DVD. However, the DVDs have to be purchased and shipped from the US, and I have to have a multiregion DVD player (I do--by cracking one). By the time all of that is said and done, it's a very expensive prospect to watch something that I would be able to see for virtually free in the US. I could also get them from iTMS, in violation of their EULA, but... I think their prices are crazy for video. When shows have made it into the Japanese market, I prefer renting the DVDs (I get the Japanese subtitles that way, so I don't have to pause it every 3 minutes to explain details my wife--Japanese--missed in English), but even when they do make it in, they are years behind (I'm coming up on finishing the second season of BSG--do you know how hard it has been to avoid hearing any spoilers???). So what's this tell me? Pirates are just like me: They have a weird sense of entitlement and they are too cheap to pay the actual costs.
And this, when I'm honest with myself, is nothing to be proud of.
I have never pirated music on a large scale (just to sample something before buying--not necessary anymore with Last.fm, etc.), because I used to be a musician and know how much time, effort, and expense goes into making a record. I have never pirated video games because the best ones are always from the smallest developers, and all of them are phenomenally expensive to make. Probably the reason I make an exception for TV (not movies, but that's just because I've never seen the point--you can rent those and you get a better experience anyway) is that I don't have any experience or knowledge about how all that works. Probably if I or any of my friends were involved in that industry, I'd be more responsible about it. And that is the problem--a bunch of people who have no appreciation of the real-world costs--in time, money, and effort--of producing the media they enjoy somehow feel like it is their "right" to have it and share it with absolutely nothing going to the poor bastards who poured their lives into making it.
For every Cory Doctorow--who has made a little one-man cottage industry of encouraging everyone to screw over his peers, which has translated into lucrative column-writing, public speaking, blogging, and "activism" gigs--there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of guys like you getting the shaft.
Can we stop pretending that theft is okay now?
The piratebay make it possible for people to rip me off ...
Actually the Torrent tracker makes it possible. TPB's just linking to it, they're no more liable for it happening than Google is. TPB didn't do anything new to make your software available.
... that takes me 10 hours a day a year to make... for free.
Did software piracy start occuring after you started selling games on-line? Seriously, dude. I have software for sale on-line right now. I knew going in that it'd likely be cracked and made available on-line. I knew there was only so much I was going to make on it. I cannot believe you went into this too naieve to have the same line of thought. Given that you had DRM on your software early on, I am forced to believe that you have. I would really really really like to know why you think you'd suddenly have more money landing in your account if TPB went out of business. If you've got hard data, you'll be helping out a fellow developer by sharing it.
Explain to me again how thepiratebay earning money from ads whilst giving away my work for free, and lining the pockets of its millionaire founder is anything like a fucking robin hood?
I agree, they're nothing like Robin Hood. For starters, they haven't taken anything of yours. The guy you wanna scream at is the guy who put the tracker up. Secondly, they're making money off of selling information, as opposed to shifting goods/products from one person to another. Nothing at all like Robin Hood. Actually, they're a lot like Google. They're making a metric fuckton of money off content you put on the web, too. Those scumbag jerks.
Your anger is misdirected. You really should have another gander at the arguments and listen to them more objectively. I'm not saying this to insult you or to put you in your place, I honestly and truely think you've gotten so wrapped up in the idea that you're missing money that you haven't put serious consideration into what people are saying, here. I should be in the position to be just as angry as you are, but I'm not. If you wonder why, just feel free to ask. I'd much rather discuss than argue, here.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
How is it capitalism if you don't have to compete with my product, but just give my product away and claim it is yours?
Information isn't a product. Secondly capitalism requires informed consumers, so claiming it's mine should be fraud. See Moral Rights which is a separate issue from copyright. Note the US doesn't recognize Moral Rights.
In fact it is the complete antithesis of creativity and culture, because it enables everyone to re-use other peoples creative works rather than make their own.
Culture and creativity aren't only expressed through original works. By using elements of others work, an artist can make an arrangement that is far superior to the sum of its parts.
If I could get people to buy the Sims from me, without having to bother making it, that sounds like an easy life.
That does sound like an easy life.. but it doesn't work that way. The "getting people to buy" isn't magic, you have to give them reason to pay you.
Is the world a better place because there are now 2 competing products? or would we be better off if everyone just copies the first one?
I find it interesting you think that there'd be less products in a world where people can re-use elements of others arts. I find it far more likely that there's a Sims Sopranos, Sims Lost, Sims X-Men and many other derivative works that just are to risky in current climate.
I'm glad CCP had to make eve on-line rather than just making Elite Online. I'm glad that I have the choice between world of warcraft and lord of the rings on-line.
Games rarely advance from original ideas. World of Warcraft reused and polished elements of earlier games. Don't kid yourself into thinking these were great works of creativity, it's exactly what I'm arguing, recycling and incremental improvements of ideas. Had CCP made Elite Online, they'd have gone out of business for failing to advance. There have been competing Warcraft servers for years, and it hasn't stopped Blizzard from making expansions. In fact by adding content Blizzard is keeping those rogue servers obsolete. That's competition, and Blizzard has the advantage by the nature of their position.
Killing off intellectual property is the best way imaginable to totally kill off competition. Nobody can compete with free and their is zero incentive to innovate if you can just carbon-copy the market-leader without penalty.
Of course people can compete with free, by providing better service and timely updates. I never argued for killing IP. I believe in expanded fair use and drastically shorter terms. Do you expect to be making money off five year old games? Do your current games make your games from 5 years ago appear obsolete? With a five year copyright, you'd have a five year head-start on the competition. You update your software, then that's 5 more years for the updated version.
Quake 1 was released in 1996, Quake 3 was released in 1999. Also in 1999, Quake 1 was released GPL, giving others the legal ability to make derivative games that could potentially compete with Q3. (And that's giving the source away instead of keeping it hidden like most games do)
So what work of yours is going to be relevant 50 years after your death? What work do you expect to still be selling copies from 5 years from it's release. Certainly not Kudos, why would I buy that with Kudos 2 out. I've purchased a couple of your games, and they're fine games, but they'll all be forgotten in 5 years... except maybe the influence they may have on other games.
And this is actually backwards:
1. I was offered a job. The employer promised to pay me before I started working, otherwise I wouldn't have.
2. I really lost those two weeks, because I worked during that time, so I couldn't work in another job (that would have paid).
If I steal a CD/DVD from a store:
1. The store paid money for that CD, they cannot sell it to others.
2. Real materials were used in making that CD. They cannot be reused to make another copy.
With piracy:
1. I did not promise to pay anybody. They still made the movie.
2. The movie has been made, if I download it or don't (and don't watch it) does not change the fact that they made it. The fact that I downloaded it, does not cost them more money, since they used no real materials to make my copy.
3. They can still sell the movie to others.
Pirate Bay being biased is completely irrelevant. IFPI is also biased. That's the very definition of sides in a trial.
They are not judging anything. Now, the Judge being biased ... If you fail to see such a simple thing, I don't think your other ideas deserve credit.
It's sarcasm. All those "original ideas" are not original. Meringuoid is using them as examples of Disney's hypocrisy.