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Microsoft's Bulk Deal With New Zealand Collapses

vik writes "The latest 3-year, pan-government deal that Microsoft has been establishing with the New Zealand government since 2000 has collapsed, opening the doors to the wider use of open source software in government. The NZ State Services Commission (already a prize-winning user of open source) says in a statement that it '...became apparent during discussions that a formal agreement with Microsoft is no longer appropriate.' Having lost their discount, individual government departments will now have to put their IT requirements out to tender individually."

17 of 166 comments (clear)

  1. Linux by p!ngu · · Score: 3, Funny

    Doors open! Get 'em, boys!

    1. Re:Linux by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Remember that David only defeats Goliath in the movies. In real life, David usually ends up with a slingshot shoved up his ass.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  2. Open Formats by Nerdfest · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The individual departments should be required to use open formats where open formats exist. It's far past the time governments should be held hostage with proprietary formats.

    1. Re:Open Formats by Daengbo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree that should be the number one short-term goal for governments of the world. The only problem is, what do you do about issues like OOXML, which is a standard, and which MS supports in name, but which isn't actually supported by anyone? Gaming the standards system has become too easy and corrupting standards has no penalty.

      What ever happened to the good ol' days when you put up an RFC and a reference implementation and everyone tried to make sure new stuff worked with the old stuff? If there had been a reference implementation (ahem ... OO.o), we wouldn't have the weasel ODF support in MS Office SP2.

    2. Re:Open Formats by Narpak · · Score: 3, Informative

      I agree that should be the number one short-term goal for governments of the world. The only problem is, what do you do about issues like OOXML, which is a standard, and which MS supports in name, but which isn't actually supported by anyone? Gaming the standards system has become too easy and corrupting standards has no penalty.

      I know I have posted something similar like this before. However I believe it bears repeating.

      The Norwegian Government, in a moment of clarity, decided to embrace open standards. From January 1 2009 all departments, institutions, schools and public sites; should deliver and accept all documents that are ODF, PDF or HTML (which ever is appropriate for the information in question). This doesn't bare those sites and institutions from putting up, or accepting, Microsoft document formats; but at everything have to be there in Open Standards first and foremost.

  3. We'll see.... by Daemonax · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd be happily surprised if a National government was the one to embrace Free software and start the process of eventually seeing it used in schools, which then flows to the work place and homes... But we'll see... I would be very surprised if the government picked open source.

  4. A small win, but MS has lobbyists by freedom_india · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Before you all rejoice in hallelujah glory please remember that:
    1) MS is a powerful marketing organisation with a single control center. It has millions to spend on lobbying. Instead of one central purchasing order they will go after each state/county and government organisation parallely and independently.
    2) To take advantage of this situation the FOSS/Open Source has NO marketing budget or marketing plan except for some backdoor geeks.
    3) Lobbyists that MS hires far outmatch the abilities of what FOSS can bring up....
    Let's face facts ok?
    We have been a good, in fact excellent opening in a battle. The enemy has taken a big kick in its balls and is down for a few moments.
    But, we lack the control center and resources of taking advantage of it.
    If i were Red Hat or Ubuntu (in a corporate sense), i would be in NZ now talking to the main permanent secretaries and other pukes down there to hammer down an initial PoC for Linux/Open office.
    And yes i would offer a central help center staffed by real people who can train the department's IT staff and/or assist them in installing, fixing bugs, training staff, etc all the things Microsoft will do.
    And yes, i would sign a one-year contract with them offering them a FREE software with paid support.
    But, as FOSS supporter do i have a centralized marketing budget, people, resources to make it happen?
    NOOOO.
    Its likea Sniper going against an entire armoured division. Yeah it sounds gung-ho, but that does not win a war gentlemen. We need the three C's of marketing. Command, Control and a Corporate willing to take risks and Money.
    Once we have that in form of Red Hat or corporate Ubuntu we can talk about a Master Plan on taking down MS...
    Until then shut up the vodka bottles. Its too early to celebrate.

    --
    "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    1. Re:A small win, but MS has lobbyists by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Informative

      1) MS is a powerful marketing organisation with a single control center. It has millions to spend on lobbying. Instead of one central purchasing order they will go after each state/county and government organisation parallely and independently

      I agree to a point: I personally don't think that Microsoft has the domain knowledge to after individual provinces or localities in New Zealand, but then I may be underestimating Microsoft's presence in NZ.

      2) To take advantage of this situation the FOSS/Open Source has NO marketing budget or marketing plan except for some backdoor geeks.

      Red Hat, Novell, Canonical, Mandriva, Sun, IBM, etc. all have marketing budgets. With the sole exception of IBM, none have as large a marketing budget as Microsoft, at least not by themselves.

      3) Lobbyists that MS hires far outmatch the abilities of what FOSS can bring up....

      There is no "open source lobbying" organization. ("FOSS" and "FLOSS" are ugly terms, IMHO). But certainly there are individual groups that, together, are extremely power, each from different angles. From the "online freedom" aspect, you have the EFF. From the "Linux is good" dept., we have The Linux Foundation. There are several organizations pushing open standards. IBM pushes open standards and open source. And there are tons of other examples. Together, these organizations outweigh Microsoft's lobbying efforts.

      And there is no "we": Open source represents a bunch of diverse elements with diverse agendas. That's why open source is winning (yes, I said it: we are winning!). Many individuals and organizations with many agendas easily outweigh the one agenda and one organization, no matter how big or how much money said agenda and organization are.

    2. Re:A small win, but MS has lobbyists by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...yet none of them are on the bid in NZ. Surprising isn't it?

      No, but not for the reasons you describe. It's called simple bribery and collusion, and it has to do with Microsoft, and big bags of money. If the corporations didn't come along with complete programs for these government pinheads to look like they were doing their jobs, they might actually have to do them.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:A small win, but MS has lobbyists by Seriousity · · Score: 3, Informative

      Microsoft is quite present here in New Zealand. On a few occasions I have mentioned that I run linux on my desktop PC to IT tutors / teachers; the responses have varied from "what's that?" to "isn't linux just for servers?"(that one was today)

      In fact, barely anybody else that I know is familiar with linux; everybody assumes it's Microsoft as far as the eye can see - how can there be possibly something better out there if everybody still uses MS?

      There was one person I tried to introduce to linux, and to my distress the result wasn't exactly glamorous - after spending half a day figuratively breaking through brick walls with my forehead to configure PulseAudio with his 5.1 surround system, grr, I find out that ATI had decided to dump support for his relatively new card, grrrr.

      So X is pulverized completely and he has a filesystem he can't access on a brand new hard drive that's good to kill small bugs with or stop paper from blowing away. I tried to explain to him that this was ATI's doing, not the fault of Linux.... Seems he'll never give FOSS another chance after that.

      All in all there's many walls to break through to get linux out there, and many of them come back to Microsoft doing what it does best, which to be blunt is using it's inflated wealth and influence to overstay its welcome.

      At any rate, we need to tighten a lot of loose screws before we can really get Linux out there. I hope and pray that Ubuntu considers changing the fixed release cycles so there isn't something major broken with every new release, as the OS has the potential to go far. But I digress...

      At the end of the day, the less I see of Microsoft in my blessed country the better. My uncle works in government in New Zealand, and the laptop that Microsoft pilfered down through the grime channels to him has made his job a bit harder - in his words, "Computers are supposed to get smaller and faster, this thing is huge, heavy and slow". So yes, Microsoft is indeed hampering productivity here; this news gets a begrudging thumbs-up from me to a government I like as much as the smell of a long-dead seal.

      --
      This post was made in complete sincere seriousity; as such any attempts to derive humour are doomed to instant failure.
  5. They want better deal by paziek · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I bet they just want better deal, and think this will help. Who knows, they are probably right about that.

  6. Re:RIP by Bert64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe microsoft should work on making windows more user friendly so you don't have to spend hours in the dos cli configuring irq numbers and io addresses, dealing with constant crashes and manually installing networking support just so they can get a workable graphic interface to check their mail with..

    Oh wait, it's not 1993 anymore...

    Linux these days is generally much easier to install than windows, and proprietary unix was always much easier than windows (because like macos, it came bundled with hardware designed to run it)

    --
    http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  7. Re:Is New Zealand any where near Vancouver? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Funny

    In longitude it is pretty close.

  8. Re:RIP by noundi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is getting fucking tiresome. At first I gave this argument (user friendliness) some thought, of course Linux is different so it has to be either easier or more difficult, no two OSs are exactly equal. Then after hearing this argument about a thousand times between showing everybody from coworkers to friends to my own mother, whom isn't the youngest hen in the pen to put it gently, how to use Ubuntu I come to realise that most of the times it's because you are so fucking lazy. In my experience most people reject it simply because it's different, and different is scary, it's unknown. When my mother asks me for help I refuse to help her, instead I tell her "let's pretent that you have psychic powers and with that you just 'know' where to look for the answer", while I survey. Most times she, being 60+, finds whatever she's looking for. For example if she would ask me how to change the layout of the document she's working with in OOo I'd tell her, "What would be the 'category' of this action? Would it fit more into e.g. changing views or handling files or editing the contents?". Naturally where I'm going with this is to show her that she doesn't need to be scared, she can, with some common sense and an eager index finger, check for it in the logical places she can imagine.

    In my experience it's not so difficult to teach a person with low Windows knowledge to do the same fundamental actions in another OS, Ubuntu being my preferred alternative for these. The tasks these people do are virtually the same. What is difficult is to teach the thick headed thinks-he-knows-his-computer guy, that has learned some semi advanced tweaking and configuring in Windows, to start "all over". To me it's clear, these people push it away not because they can't, but because they thought they could and when they realise that Windows has tought them very little (since little hacking is necessary) about general OS structure and configuration. I'm saying this because the first time I really forced myself to give Linux a chance I started off, on recommendation from friends using Linux, with Slackware. As a thick headed thought-I-knew-my-computer I'd tell you one thing: I was fucking lost. This failed, that failed -- and I can tell you that from a Windows users perspective the word "sound server" was very confusing. But as I moved further and further away from the Windows concept (what I thought was how an OS was built) I began learning how OSs function in reality. Of course the hardware resources of your soundcard may only be accessable by one application, which is why you need a sound server to distribute/gather/tunnel the stream, but Windows never even hinted this very fundamental fact about hardware/software interaction. Also I have to add that this was many years ago and long before Mark Shuttleworth first spoke the word Ubuntu, nowadays the sound server example might be nullified by Ubuntu as well. But it wouldn't matter, my point is that you find it difficult because you find it difficult, not because it is difficult, if you understand what I mean. So you see there are 3 types of users, the one that knows, the one that doesn't know and last and worst the one that thinks he knows, don't be the latter, nobody likes this guy.

    --
    I am the lawn!
  9. Nothing will change though by flyingfsck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    NZ will still buy all software from MS, just at much more inflated prices. Buying OSS from a zoo of little guys is just too much hassle for IT and the buyers.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  10. Re:RIP by fwarren · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sure, its laziness, but we're all lazy. Sometimes we want a computer to act like a device that just works, without hassle, at all.

    It is a lie. Repeat after me. "A Computer is NOT an appliance".

    Some things are not inherently simple. A blender is simple, a toaster is simple. A telecsope is NOT simple. You have to adjust where you are pointing it and the focus, know about lenses.

    Things are moving along. Compare an SLR camera from 20 years ago to a push and click digital camera of today. There are still things to learn but the simple "point and click" "appliance" camera of today is a very powerful camera.

    Microsoft has done everyone a diservice by saying that a computer IS an appliance. Take any group of hardware and add $200 of Microsoft products and you will have a working system. Easy to use and secure.

    Everyeone wants to do word processing, but they don't want to lean how their OS stores files...so they can't find what they saved an hour from now. Everyone wants to send email, but they don't know how to read an error message that tells them why their email could not be delivered.

    Short of running a kiosk, we are not anywhere near the "appliance" stage of PC computing. Anyone saying otherwise should be swiftly kicked in the balls. Even if he is a geek with funny haircut and wears glasses.

    --
    vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
  11. Re:RIP by Ant+P. · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now try buying an all in one printer, a USB TV Tuner, and a Wifi USB stick. Remember-NO RESEARCH. Now go to distro foo and see if device barr you just got at Walmart works.

    Having bought an overpriced prebuilt many years ago, I've been through all that and more. I still remember the five hour delay while Windows Update downloaded a 30MB bloated, shitty sound card driver over dialup because the OEM install CD didn't bother to include one. It worked on Knoppix "out of the box". Guess windows just isn't ready for the desktop.