Bitterness To Be Classified As a Mental Illness

Some psychiatrists are trying to get excessive bitterness identified as a mental illness named post-traumatic embitterment disorder. Of course this has some people who live perfect little lives, and always get what they want, questioning the new classification. The so called "disorder" is modeled after post-traumatic stress disorder because it too is a response to a trauma that endures. "They feel the world has treated them unfairly. It's one step more complex than anger. They're angry plus helpless," says Dr. Michael Linden, the psychiatrist who put a name to how the world works.

Comments

Makes sense

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd be bitter too if I had four fingers and no torso.

Re:Makes sense

[Anonymous Coward]

No, red potato men have smiles on their foreheads, you bigot.

Re:Makes sense

[internerdj]

How can you tell he is bitter? He is missing the proper digit to express it to the world?

Re:Makes sense

[Jurily]

So, what's next on the list of mental illnesses? Hope? Happiness? Not being a properly brainwashed consumer?

We already have boredom on there.

Re:Makes sense

[Mystra_x64]

Having a brain is a sure sign of possible mental illness in the future.

Re:Makes sense

[commodoresloat]

yes but they still do taste quite bitter.

Re:Makes sense

[unlametheweak]

I can't help but feel that this is just a marketing ploy for the profession that will encourage more FDA approved "happy pills" and psychiatrists visits. Putting medical labels on different emotional states is logically dubious. I'd prefer to live with my depressive realism in peace and without the psychological burden and stigma of being labeled "mentally ill".

I don't want people to think that I am against psychiatry however (I'll leave any antagonisms for the Scientologists to dish out). There is certainly a continuum of emotional and mental states, most of which are totally illogical (i.e. people often "fall in love" with incompatible mates, which is illogical and perhaps should be labeled a mental illness?). Everybody hallucinates, it's just that most people do it when they are asleep and forget about it unless their REM sleep is interrupted. The "mentally ill" merely fall outside of the normal bell curve for such states.

There is quackery in all professions unfortunately, and all are in the business of making money.

Re:Makes sense

[Duradin]

"There is quackery in all professions unfortunately, and all are in the business of making money."

As a wise man once said, "Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something."

Re:Makes sense

[gmack]

The worst part is that the happy pills often don't work as well as other means.

A friend of mine who went to the doctor years ago complaining of depression. The doctor gave him Zoloft and he went completely delusional. I went with his mother to drag him back to the doctor and had him explain how he was going to get rich by joining one of the groups that rule the world.

Doctor's answer? "well maybe we should treat this with diet instead of Zoloft" Turns out some forms of depression can be caused by nutrient imbalance and removing him from the pills at least fixed the delusions.

Guy lost all but two of his friends because some quack decided that the quick fix was better than the non pill version.

Re:Makes sense

[Austerity Empowers]

The cure for post-traumatic bitterness disorder is ketchup?

Re:Makes sense

[fractoid]

Only until you boil 'em, mash 'em or stick 'em in a stew.

Re:Makes sense

[electrons_are_brave]

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSMV) is under review, which is why this has popped up - it's someone lobbying for a disorder to be included. There's criticism, of course. In 1952, it had 66 disorders, by 1994 it had 400, and lordy lordy knows how many this edition will end up with. Which leads to the "we are pathologising everything" debate. I have my own dream. Personally, I research boredom and my chances of getting grant money would be much higher if the chronically & severely bored weren't just outliers from the average (i.e. really bored people), but were, in fact, mentally ill. This would benefit them because (at long last) they would have a real illness which could be treated, recognised legally by insurance companies and get researched. Some neurotransmitters are associated with fatigue, lethergy and boredom, so a drug that blocks, increases or inhibits this would be available tout suit. Of course the truth is that some people get really bored really easily. I suspect this is true of bitterness as well.

Re:Makes sense

[thesandtiger]

In this case, I would say that one of the differential diagnostic issues would be significant subjective distress before it would be diagnosed. What this means is that you'd have to be bothered enough by it to go and seek help.

An example of another diagnosis with that same kind of differential would be sexual dysfunction. Some people can't get it up and they don't care. No diagnosable condition. Some people can't get it up and it upsets them greatly. Voila, diagnosable condition.

Part of the reason for trying to turn certain things into diagnosable conditions is insurance issues. Insurance refuses to pay for therapy for people who aren't "sick" - even though talking about problems with a professional can help stop problems from becoming severe enough to justify a diagnosis (and cost a LOT more money down the road). People saying it's just about making money are generally not correct - while there are some clinicians who make their living basically having chats with the worried well, most would rather spend their time working with clients who actually can benefit from help. For the most part, the bullshit diagnoses are there to help people who would benefit from preventative treatment, before something becomes severe. We treat people for elevated (but not really high) blood pressure, pre-emptively, why not also help save someone years of misery by helping them develop better coping skills before relatively tame problems they face balloon into huge ones?

Finally, when talking about this, remember, we're not just talking about people who are kind of cynical and sour - we're talking about people who are finding that they are experiencing substantial distress and impaired functioning in many areas of their lives. If you experienced significant pain in your knees that was preventing you from walking without excruciating pain, which was in turn causing you not to exercise, making you miss days at work (or even losing your job), forcing you to stay at home because getting up to go out hurt too much, would anyone say that you going to see a doctor is unreasonable? Same thing here - it's just that because we cannot see the actual cause of the problem people are much more willing to dismiss it.

Cynicism

[Broken scope]

So when is Cynicism getting added to an ever expanding list of mental disorders that one more pill can set right?

Re:Cynicism

[node 3]

So when is Cynicism getting added to an ever expanding list of mental disorders that one more pill can set right?

While they surely have a pill ready, all you need is an irony supplement.

Re:Cynicism

[Rycross]

Bipolar? Schizophrenia? Obsessive-compulsive disorder? There are plenty of real mental illnesses. Depression (as in, real depression, not the normal blues) is a real mental disorder too. You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater here.

Re:Cynicism

[Anonymous Coward]

Believe it or not, most doctors are motivated by curing or ameliorating the suffering they see so much of. The best psychiatrist I ever had, when I asked him why he chose Psychiatry as his specialty, explained that in surgery and internal medicine rotations most patients came in to the hospital with illnesses that weren't going to improve, really, despite medical intervention Late stage diabetes, cancer, heart disease, etc. In psychiatry rotations, he got to see patients that were feeling so horrible they honestly wished to die become better because of what he as a doctor could do for them, and that was a tremendously positive experience that he wanted to spend his professional life repeating for others.

Re:Cynicism

[Rycross]

Bipolar disorder is not imaginary.

Re:Cynicism

[gishzida]

I'm not cynical... I'm optimistically challenged!

Re:Cynicism

[Anonymous Coward]

Anything you have four different equivalent scientific terms for is not real. Sorry.

dihydrogen monoxide, hydric acid, hydrogen hydroxide, oxidane

Re:Cynicism

[kandela]

Bipolar? You just named another imaginary one.

You've got it wrong, it's monopolars that aren't real.

Re:Cynicism

[Anonymous Coward]

What are all these dangerous chemicals of which you speak???

Re:Cynicism

[somersault]

Wow, so people suffering from post traumatic stress disorder after having to watch people ripped apart by bullets, or those who have phobias from traumatic experiences as kids, or weird chemical issues causing manic/bipolar or just 'regular' depression, OCD, epilepsy etc etc are simply just morons because they need pills to try to live 'normal' lives like you? A lot of people do live in their normal little worlds where they are neither overly happy nor sad all the time and their brains have no significant defects - but as with all things in life, some people lie at the extremes. Some of this will be due to life experience, other parts will be due to genetic factors or perhaps damage in the womb from an accident or a mother who liked to drink, yada yada yada, you get the picture. Yes sometimes people just need to grow the fuck up, and they eventually they usually do, but some people have serious problems. Sometimes it's a mixture of both. I would suggest that you are much more of a moron to pass judgement on things that you apparently have no knowledge of. Yeah, I know we're on slashdot, but even so..

I had written a huuuuuge rant here about how my life was oh so sad and worthy of pity, but you probably don't care. Just be aware that even people who have nothing to really be upset about can still get depressed simply because western life is so incredibly easy and boring. People aren't built for sitting in an office all day doing nothing. I got depressed for other reasons, but I won't list them unless you would like to hear them so that you can laugh at me for being so pathetic as to let it get to me.

Anyway, sorry if you weren't referring to stuff like depression*, and congrats if you were trolling.

* I do agree that doctors hand out pills too easily sometimes, but you do know that it doesn't make them money at all right? It makes the pharmaceutical companies money, but doctors would still be getting paid plenty without hypocondriacs wasting their time. Pawning their patients off onto proper counsellors and/or medication is not making the doctor any more money. Believe it or not a lot of doctors just want to help people (I know some doctors and nurses who regularly go out and do missionary work for free or at least very little pay compared to what they normally get). Of course some people will just be in it for the money, but it is overly cynical to think of all of them that way. You even get some decent lawyers for crying out loud (admittedly NewYorkCountryLawyer is probably the only one, but he still shows that it's possible) :p

Re:Cynicism

[DriedClexler]

I'm not one to buy into the attempt to turn every inconvencience into another officially-recognized psychiatric disorder with a $100 co-pay solution. However, the description did resonate me, and I can definitely see the difference between "normal travails of life" and what they're describing.

Let me tell you a bit of my experience:

In college, I joined a large organization. Soon after, I was kicked out.

So far, no big deal.

But when I was kicked out, I was told that "numerous people" felt "physically threatened" by me, and I had *no idea* why that was. Previously, some people that were nice to me had suddenly turned around and refused to talk to me. Nobody would give me any explanation except extremely kafkaesque ones.

Then, through a coincidental connection I had (cousin's friend had also joined the same time I did) I found that people believed I -- a virgin at the time -- had threatened to rape some of the women there. Soon after, I learned of similar, viscious rumors going on about me.

I filed a formal complaint about this where I explained everything. Then, again by coincidence, I the writeup and the complaint had been destroyed and no one told me they did so. I appealed to another group, who refused to do anything after meeting with me, on the grounds that I "seem so angry" (ya think?). I appealed to the faculty sponsor of the organizations, and got a letter back saying, in a formal tone, "you deserved what you got, bro".

Getting kicked out of an organization is bearable, of course, but without being given any reason why, all while being stabbed in the back and having what reputation I had destroyed? I couldn't stop thinking about it for years and years. I did try to "get over it"; I sought conseling (and was diagnosed with depression and anxiety) and tried to join other groups, but inevitably was unable to form any kind of relationship with anyone.

I've explained my situation on slashdot before (can't find the link right now), and people refused to believe me, insisting that I must have somehow done something wrong. And throughout the whole time, I've noticed that my socialization is fundamentally different from everyone else. People suggest that I do things (in social situations) and then I refuse, saying, "but won't they [do something evil in response]" and people are astounded that I would even imagine something like that.

I also always feel like I'm in some sort of paralysis in my life, where I don't want to make any changes (like join a group, look for work somewhere else) because every concern feels like it's preventing me from addressing the others. "Angry and helpless" described me perfectly. (I use the past tense because I recently got more intensive help and started going to church, where I have more social support.)

Would I meet the criteria if I went in to be evaluated? I don't know. But if this diagnosis enables psychiatrists to carry over the same tools from treating PTSD, then it looks legit. It certainly runs the risk of being overdiagnosed, and it would be a shame if it ended up like ADHD, but the idea itself doesn't sound outlandish.

Re:Cynicism

[otopico]

Hey now, that's not safe. My grand dad drank those things his entire life and DIED!

Re:Cynicism

[somersault]

Yes I agree. I was on pills for depression a couple of times. After the first time, when I came off the pills it actually made a lot of things worse in the next few months (but at first I didn't realise that was anything to do with the pills, I just thought it was me being weird until I found out what OCD was, and read that citalopram can actually make some patients' symptoms of depression worse rather than help, so I assume it was that that exaggerated the slight OCDish tendencies I had already of worrying, overthinking and obsessing about patterns, numbers, etc). I told myself I'd never go back on pills again, but I eventually did when I ended up incredibly argumentative and frustrated and sabotaging relationships with my friends and family - I realised that I shouldn't have come off the pills in the first place because I was only fooling myself that I was somehow 'better'. I hadn't dealt with the root of my problems.

The second time I made sure to lower the dosage slowly when I came off the pills, and things have been pretty good since despite a couple of situations that would have seriously messed me up beforehand. I definitely have developed new ways of looking at life and coping in general that hopefully mean I won't need to go back on meds no matter what happens.

It's amazing how you can make life so different just by taking a little pill every day. It's scary, in fact, when you think about it. If you ever go on anti-depressants or stop to consider the effects of alcohol, caffeine or other drugs then you will realise how easily that your entire outlook on life can be affected massively by tiny chemical changes. Any tiny problems with either production or reception of certain chemicals inside the brain itself can make it difficult for some people to have what would be regarded as a "strong psyche".. while some are just lucky and seem to be hyperactively happy and positive all the time, blissfully unaware of the world's problems (yeah I'm exaggerating a little, and oftentimes in fact that kind of super-PMA is just a front).

Re:Cynicism

[Neuticle]

The doctors only get free golf trips and paperweights with drug logos on them.

Just to clarify, since many people have the misconception that doctors get something every time they write a prescription for anything:

Kickbacks are illegal. When they are discovered, it results in things like jail and loss of license.

The free golf trips went away years and years ago, and I don't think they were ever very common.

Even the free paperweights, pens, clipboards, kleenex box etc were voluntarily stopped last year by the drug companies. Probably because doctors are actually smart enough to not be swayed by the "gift" of a $0.02 pen, and 2c x 800,000 doctors' offices adds up.

"informational" lunches and dinners are still happening, where doctors get free food and listen to pharma whargarrble about $NEW_DRUG_X, and they do get paid if they do actual work for a pharm company as a consultant or researcher, but that is all disclosed AFAIK.

http://www.boston.com/news/health/blog/2008/07/pharma_to_ban_g.html

Re:Cynicism

[Artifakt]

To paraphrase Krishnamurti - Not fitting in well to a sick society is not a sign of mental illness.

Re:Cynicism

[Artifakt]

A lot of the nasty side effects happen in people who are messed up, and who take the drug to self medicate. When it doesn't overcome the mental illness, or other factors push the person into unsocial behavior and worse, the drug gets all the blame. (Note that I'm not making this claim about Meth or some of the other drugs that will typically mes anyone on them up. From what I've seen Cocaine and Methamphetamine simply don't allow controlled use in the sufficiently long term.).
        For other cases though, look at LSD. Risky? Definitely. Some people are more prone to not being able to tell the difference between external reality and their internal imagery than others - for them, there's no distinction between the drug's 'visions' and the world outside. Then there's the Manson case, which proved pretty conclusively that young people could be brainwashed better under its influence by a charismatic cult leader. At the same time, regular psychiatrists and therapists were getting wonderful results. There were so many studies in the 60's where LSD based therapy seems to have contributed to long term reform of alcoholics, pedophiles, or other criminal or behavior problem types that it's simply amazing that the drug was made schedule 1 in the USA. A drug with an LD50 over a hundred thousand times its effective dose, with the counter-addictive property that after the first use, that effective does simply rises and rises until the subject literally can't get high on it unless they wait a week or two to use it again, and that was getting glowing praise in some psychiatric circles, and it wasn't restricted or controlled, it was simply totally banned. That's politics indeed.
 

Re:Cynicism

[Anonymous Coward]

What the fuck is this? Slashdot or a congregation?

Dude, if you believe in all-knowing, all-powerful wizards who control everything then you have bigger problems than anything you face in reality.

Re:Cynicism

[machine321]

I don't believe you; you must have done something wrong.

Re:Cynicism

[initialE]

Dude, maybe you're a schizo and don't know it. So it's time to ask yourself: Is it really true that the world is out to get me, or
1. do you have periods of time where you can't remember and can't account for your actions
2. do you have an evil twin brother

Re:Cynicism

[Thomasje]

I had a similar experience when I was 11 years old. Several acts of vandalism were committed at my school (bike tires punctured) and someone accused me of doing it. (I hadn't.) Pretty soon about half a dozen kids from my class were pointing the finger at me, claiming they'd seen me do it. So, I was found guilty in the court of public opinion, as they say. Luckily our class teacher was a bit more level-headed, realized that there was no evidence and besides, the class ganging up on the scrawny kid that always gets picked on anyway is itself a bit suspicious, but this accusation followed me around for a long time anyway.

Whether it was just that one particularly scary episode, or my history of being bullied for years (I was small for my age, wore glasses, and was the best of my class at everything except sports -- you do the math), I don't know, but eventually I also ended up lonely and paranoid, always expecting the worst from people, e.g. I send someone and email and don't hear back the same day, and I immediately worry that they're angry at me and giving me the silent treatment. That sort of thing. I have gotten over it to a large extent, partly by indulging my frustration by just spending endless evenings by myself, on my couch, getting drunk, on an almost daily basis, for years. I don't recommend the alcohol part -- while it feels good, it is very bad for your health! Still, I was able to work through a lot of that stuff, and slowly (very slowly) regained my self-respect.

The trauma will never go away entirely; once you've experienced cold-hearted cruelty, you've experienced something most people never will, and it destroys some or all of your innocent cheerfulness and spontaneity. The paranoid thoughts will come back from time to time. But, it is possible to return to leading a good, happy life; I can honestly say I am a happy person again. It just takes me a bit more courage to do some things than other people, but even that gets easier with time.

Maybe a shrink would have been able to help me through my bitterness phase more quickly and with less liver damage. I don't trust shrinks, but I could be wrong about that of course; I wouldn't necessarily pooh-pooh the idea of qualifying bitterness as a disorder. Just because it's less bizarre than schizophrenia doesn't mean it isn't potentially serious.

I resemble that remark

[Marxist Hacker 42]

I have Asperger's. Diagnosed, not self-diagnosed like so many on slashdot.

Bitterness as a symptom of my Asperger's. This would explain a lot of the "delusions of inadequacy" side of my personality. I work so hard at some stuff that I'm just incapable of, like having a real career where I'm not exploited.

A lot of my paranoia is related to this as well.

I'm so lucky to be in a company now that respects my talents, and allows me time to deal with my mental illnesses; but not everybody is that lucky.

Re:I resemble that remark

[Marxist Hacker 42]

I've got a good thing going NOW- but it took failing at being a civil servant to get here.

I've got some niggling little physical symptoms for my Asperger's as well- stimming to the point of rubbing holes in my skin and bleeding (sometimes without noticing); migraines (sun, violins, and vinegar salad dressing are three big triggers); disgraphia (ha, there's a reason to go into software engineering, where one can type rather than write!); spd (sensory perception disorder- aka halucinations).

I don't understand how anybody with Asperger's would be totally unable to work. Unable to keep a job more than three years in a row due to driving everybody else nuts, yes, but not totally unable to work.

Re:I resemble that remark

[Rycross]

You should only diagnose disorders you can treat without drugging them. The rest is just life.

That's assuming that there are no mental disorders that require chemical treatment. That point of view isn't supported by the medical evidence out there. Someone with schizophrenia isn't going to get better by just dealing with it, and any serious doctor would laugh at the idea that its "just life."

Meanwhile, marijuana is illegal because it makes you smile.

So smoking a blunt to feel happy is OK, but taking a pill to help you through a rough patch is a sign of weakness or a shirking of personal responsibility? Give me a break.

Re:I resemble that remark

[Culture20]

You should only diagnose disorders you can treat without drugging them. The rest is just life.

You posted in the wrong thread. The recent Scientology thread is here: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/26/2111214
BTW, don't visit France right now.

Re:I resemble that remark

[penguinstorm]

> but it took failing at being a civil servant to
> get here.

Failing as a civil servant is usually as good a sign as any that you're well qualified for private sector work.

Bitterness is a mental illness

[Daimanta]

I have fought for the classification of bitterness into the mental illnesses several decades ago but people laughed at me. Still bitter about it.

Re:Bitterness is a mental illness

[Locke2005]

They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to become a comedian... but nobody is laughing now!

Obsessive Classificatory Disease?

[cptnapalm]

These people who seem to need to classify every single possible emotional state as an illness have some serious mental issues.

Re:Pfft

[$RANDOMLUSER]

So all developers are ipso facto mentally ill? It would explain quite a lot.

Humor in the summary?

[nine-times]

I'm wondering about this:

Of course this has some people who live perfect little lives, and always get what they want, questioning the new classification. The so called "disorder"...

Is this supposed to be funny, or is the submitter suffering from some embitterment himself?

I know some people love having their personality labelled as a "disorder" because they believe it then excuses their actions. But also having a label like this can help people cope. Having a label can help you wrap your head around your own thoughts and behaviors, make you feel like you're not uniquely screwed up and alone, and figure out what steps might help you improve.

bah

[grub]

"They feel the world has treated them unfairly.

I don't think the world has treated me unfairly, I just happen to share it with 6 billion fucking cunts I can't stand.
What's wrong with that?

.

There's a recession going on, people.

[taustin]

And psychiatrists have boat payments to make, dammit!

At the rate things are going, this will soon become so serious that it can only be treated with a brand new, expensive drug just invented. It's a derivative of the drug they use for Restless Leg Syndrome, only it costs a lot more.

Re:There's a recession going on, people.

[JCSoRocks]

They're also offering drugs to help you with that other pesky disorder you've got called Unemployment. Increasingly common, Unemployment is said to be associated with depression, lethargy, weight loss and poor appearance. See your doctor today about the new medications available to treat your Unemployment.

Re:Pschyciatrists

[node 3]

You sound bitter...

Re:Hmm, on that note..

[nizo]

...my girlfriend who likes TV and Facebook a bit more than the average person?

I dunno, have you met the average person? TV and Facebook are way better than those poor sods.

Re:Solution to the problem

[palegray.net]

Sounds better than chemically-induced passivity, which is what these doctors seem to be advocating.

Be Well to you!

[erroneus]

I would just like to convey my sympathies to all those who have become embittered due to the traumatic stress of a world fraught with unfair competition, divisiveness, and discrimination. If you were born ugly and attractive people have more opportunities in life, that is no reason to be bitter. If you have been informed that you are somehow not good enough but not explained in what way, that is no reason to be bitter. If you are black in a predominantly white-controlled area and can't seem to get a fair chance in life, that is no reason to be bitter. If you are white and in a predominantly black-controlled area and can't seem to get a fair chance in life, that is no reason to be bitter.

There are many acceptable ways to respond to adversity in life so long as it is not angry or bitter in any way. If you happen to respond to such circumstances with anger and bitterness, fear not! We will not hold it against you, nor will we hold you responsible for it. We have declared that this is a mental illness and soon there will be treatments available for it. While the treatments will not elevate your social status in any way, you will be more accepting of "your place in life" so that your inner spirit will be more peaceful and docile. You will be better suited to serving those you had once resented for so long.

Re:American Liberals

[Red Flayer]

I have yet to meet a liberal who was happy or content with their lives.

That's because, in general, liberals realize that there are tons of real problems out there that should be solved.

Ignorance is Bliss, it's been said, and I find the corollary, "Understanding is Unhappiness", to be the cause of typical liberal cynicism.

I'd also note that all the happy conservatives I've met are those who are deliberately ignorant, or just plain without conscience.

fucking great

[spidercoz]

the world is full of bastards and now I'M the mentally ill one

Re:A new twist on Orwell

[Qzukk]

Don't give Them ideas, They are already quite certain that They have the power to quarantine you without due process.

But what about Scotland?

[SimonInOz]

So what will they do about Scotland? It seems to be full of bitter, sad people. I didn't know it was a mental condition, I thought it was just how Scottish people were.

Mind you if I lived somewhere where it was cold wet and windy and they made me wear a skirt with nothing under it, I'd be bitter too.

And then there's the beer. Oh, and haggis ... and bagpipes ...

Re:American Liberals

[Anonymous Coward]

You wouldn't like my plan as it involves warfare against dictatorships. [...] .By going after the root cause, it solves many problems.

Yeah, those liberal dumbasses should have a look at Iraq or Afghanistan if they think that kind of stuff doesn't work.

and a great way to stifle dissent

[waterbear]

Just think of the 'advantages' of having bitterness classified as a mental illness/disorder:

All those awkward folk who get themselves wronged and deprived of justice -- they can be reclassified as mentally ill, and maybe compulsorily treated with some happy pill, maybe locked up. And finally, they'll come to realize that there is justice after all, and they'll get to love Big Brother .....

-wb- :(