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Palm Pre Reviewed

mlingojones writes "The Palm Pre doesn't come out until June 6th, but the Boy Genius Report not only got their hands on one but also posted a review of it. They liked webOS, but not the hardware (especially the keyboard). Overall, they feel that 'once people are able to play a real unit themselves, there will be more than a lot of happy Palm Pre customers.'" On the downside, this review says the keyboard is lousy.

33 of 144 comments (clear)

  1. vs iPhone by Norsefire · · Score: 4, Insightful

    After reading the review and watching this video I'm disliking my iPhone even more. Mulitasking alone sets it above the iPhone; it's very frustrating having to close and reopen applications anytime you want to do something, however I frequently have iPhone apps crash due to memory shortage so I have to wonder how stable it is with multiple apps open. The keyboard does look like a deal breaker though, granted the iPhone's keyboard isn't perfect and even less so when the iPhone assumes you're a moron that can't type and "corrects" what you meant to type with a completely different word (if I wanted the word it suggested I should have to press what comes up to select it, not the other way round). I doubt it will be an "iPhone killer" though, not because it's an inferior product but because the iPhone already has a hugely established userbase.

    1. Re:vs iPhone by Santana · · Score: 4, Funny

      Autocorrection can be disabled, you know.

      iPhone OS is Mac OS X core. I does multitask, right now.

      There's this random application crashing sometimes, certainly. I wonder how you get to know it's about lack of memory and not badly written code.

      Anyways, if you're going to throw away your iPhone, just let me know where.

      --
      The best way to predict the future is to invent it
    2. Re:vs iPhone by fishthegeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have to wonder how stable it is with multiple apps open.

      My understanding is that the applications (initially anyway) are all CSS, HTML, and Javascript. The Pre isn't multi-tasking several apps, but running webkit in multiple threads. Stability shouldn't be a problem.

      --
      load "$",8,1
    3. Re:vs iPhone by pHus10n · · Score: 2, Informative

      I can see your disconnect --- there's nowhere I know of in the US or Europe where the iPhone costs $800.

    4. Re:vs iPhone by sootman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ... the iPhone's keyboard isn't perfect and even less so when the iPhone assumes you're a moron that can't type and "corrects" what you meant to type with a completely different word...

      Well, maybe your phone is right about you being a moron, because you can go to Settings -> General -> Keyboard and turn off auto-correction.

      Owning a BlackBerry (work) and an iPhone (mine) I infinitely prefer the iPhone's keyboard. (And before my iPhone I had two Nokias with physical QWERTY keyboards so I'm not just preferring the iPhone's because it was my first exposure to a full keyboard on a phone.) You can type faster and with a lighter touch since you don't have to physically press each key, and holding the phone with one hand and typing with that thumb is a whole lot easier. And whoever thought of putting keys in anything but a straight line (BlackBerry Curve 8830, Palm Pre, and the number pads on my old Nokias) should be shot.

      That said, I really hope Apple allows background apps soon, if for nothing other than Undercover. The Pre looks nice and they're doing some cool things but I won't be getting one since a) I don't have any worthwhile contacts in social sites that I need my phone to automagically gather and b) I don't need to carry around a calendar. Mainly, I'm happy that the Pre is out to give Apple some much-needed competition and force issues like MMS, video recording, background apps, etc.

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    5. Re:vs iPhone by The+Qube · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm an iPhone developer and memory crashes are all to do with badly written code. iPhone SDK has fantastic debugging capabilities that let you catch memory leaks and easily fix them - much better than any other mobile platform SDK I've ever worked with. The problem is ultimately that everyone wants to be an iPhone developer and make millions in the App Store after picking up a book and watching an online tutorial or two, without knowing a single thing about development outside of a web scripting language or two.
      Apple also used to be really strict about testing for this during the app approval process, but it looks like they relaxed the standards. Hmm, I wonder why... I've recently seen apps which crash after 3-4 minutes of use.
      By the way, check out my first app - for the cricket lovers around the world: Virtual Cricket for iPhone

      --

      "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

    6. Re:vs iPhone by The+Qube · · Score: 4, Informative

      > Autocorrection can't be disabled by default.

      Settings --> General --> Keyboard:
      Auto-Correction: OFF
      Auto-Capitalization: OFF

      > I would but I can't copy and paste the name of the place.

      Upgrade to 3.0 and you'll be able to.

      --

      "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

    7. Re:vs iPhone by piquadratCH · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Wikipedia article you quote says it has a Linux kernel (citing this interview as source), so what's the confusion?

    8. Re:vs iPhone by MBCook · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Wow. Clearly your qualified to comment, having never touched the device you are disparaging.

      I've got an iPhone. I love the thing. Lots of people own them because they are "the thing", but many of us actually made an informed choice. It works well, does what I need (occasional texting, works as a phone), syncs with my Mac, and has a fantastic UI. It's the first phone I've used that feels like the UI was actually designed instead of accumulated. The app store and all the great games and apps are just huge icing on the cake (I realize that exists to a small part in the WM space).

      For the $800 comment, do you have any idea what a top of the line blackberry costs without contract? It's about the same. Rumors have the Pre around that price too.

      As for the Pre, it's interesting. Multitasking seems like the killer 'app' for it, but I seriously worry about battery life and responsiveness. It seems like just trying to push computer conventions onto a phone. The iPhone idea makes more sense to me (although more memory for faster launching would certainly help).

      It's unfortunate that the thing feels cheap, especially considering how much you'll have to pay.

      The keyboard sounds like a killer bit. If you don't care about a physical keyboard, an iPhone seems like the way to go. If you want a physical keyboard, Blackberrys are clearly the gold standard. The G1 is worse than that, but it's not bad. The Pre sounds very unfortunate. If the keyboard is as bas as they say, it could be a major problem for sales. That is if the supposedly limited supply doesn't kill them.

      I know some people who might get one. I can't wait to play with one. It will be interesting to see how it does.

      I'm also surprised that the Javascript based applications (except for some "exclusive partners" who pay big $$$) isn't getting ragged on more. It was clear how much of a difference it made on the iPhone to get out of that. Even though they'll have all the features exposed through special JS stuff, I doubt it will work well for games.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    9. Re:vs iPhone by Facegarden · · Score: 2, Interesting

      the iphone doesn't win on features, it wins on status symbolism ($800, really?), flashy advertising, and eye candy.

      disclaimer: i don't even own a cellphone (or a tv, yes sometimes you need to be disconnected) but i notice that this is definitely true with people i see around me all the time, and i can give specific examples if need be. there's a lot of keeping up the joneses involved here.

      Seriously, i hear a *lot* of people mention that the iphone is supposed to be some status symbol, but is that even really true? It certainly sounds good to say, but I have *never* met anyone with an iPhone that I thought had it because of some status thing - people certainly drink the kool-aid and think it's the best thing out there, but that still means they bought it because they thought it was genuinely good, even if they were uninformed.

      Maybe it's because I live in silicon valley, one freeway exit from Apple headquarters itself, and everyone around here owns an iPhone just because it's decent (even if it's not great, it's certainly alright) and people tend to be well off enough to have a smartphone of some kind. And so maybe it's how common it is that makes it not a status symbol here, but I've never seen it treated as such.

      Does it really seem like a status symbol somewhere?
      -Taylor

      --
      Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
    10. Re:vs iPhone by Mr_Silver · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the iphone doesn't win on features, it wins on status symbolism ($800, really?), flashy advertising, and eye candy.

      Speaking as someone who has used and evaluated most Smartphones released in the past three years, whilst the iPhone is most definitely not perfect - it does a lot of things right, far more than the three points you quote above.

      In fact, it sounds like you haven't actually used an iPhone to be able to accurately comment about it.

      disclaimer: i don't even own a cellphone

      I rest my case. Why you got a +5 for guessing about something you freely admit you've never used and hence have no authority to comment on is beyond me.

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      Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
    11. Re:vs iPhone by Zapotek · · Score: 4, Funny

      disclaimer: i don't even own a cellphone (or a tv, yes sometimes you need to be disconnected)

      Mr Charles Pitts, is that you?

    12. Re:vs iPhone by larry+bagina · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Pre uses webkit for HTML. A few months back, webkit added css animation (sort of like CoreAnimation). If the pre supports it, that would help with the games and other little animations.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    13. Re:vs iPhone by mgblst · · Score: 2

      Someone dissing people about status symbols, but can't stop mentioning he doesn't have a tv. And of course, sitting at your computer all day certainly proves you are disconnected??

      Your point about the iPhone, I agree 100%, until I actually went out and used one. They are great machines, worthy of praise. They have a lot of power, and it is very easy to get to that power, unlike phones like N95 which have a lot of power, but hide it under a dodgy menu system. What is the point of being able to do everything, if you make it a pain to try and actually do anything?

      And not many people actually pay $800 for it? Or have you never heard of mobile plans. Most people would have a mobile plan anyway.

    14. Re:vs iPhone by thule · · Score: 2, Informative

      Note that the reviewer is looking at a pre-production version of the phone. Some people have pointed out that the real production versions of the phone have a better keyboard and smoother sliding action. Note that people *are* saying that the keyboard is a lesser keyboard than the Treo's.

    15. Re:vs iPhone by whoop · · Score: 2, Funny

      Application? Any geek worth their salt has properly calibrated fingertips and can count their words per minute them self.

    16. Re:vs iPhone by alen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At $199/$299 the iphone is the same price as other cell phones with similar features. cheaper than a few and a bit more expensive than others. cell phone, ipod, email are all old features that everyone expects in a phone at that price.

      the killer features are the app store. there is literally an app for everything. if you're lost and need to find a gas station, the iphone will do it. there are even kids games and flash card apps on it to teach your kids to read. and it will work with Exchange Server to get your email as well.

      one device to rule them all. and so far only the Pre comes close to being a competitor.

    17. Re:vs iPhone by Starayo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, fuck you too.

      I couldn't care less about the brand, which I hate, nor the advertising, which I don't watch. The reason I got my iPhone was the intuitive web browsing interface and the fact that it was the only goddamn web-enabled phone that wouldn't cost me $120 a month for something ridiculous like 5mb-50mb of data a month (this one's ~$52 a month for 500MB). Lousy country.

      And looking at the competition, I made the right choice. My dad's got a blackberry storm. How does it go? Looks like a fish, moves like a fish, steers like a cow. It's absolutely terrible.

      I would have liked an android phone but there weren't any available within the country until just recently and even then the plans are worse. I'm not made of money.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    18. Re:vs iPhone by BikeHelmet · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The iPhone is a very solid and well supported product.

      But it's by no means perfect, and it got a lot of stuff wrong. (As already pointed out, the app limit is annoying)

      And saying the iPhone is better than ____ isn't that impressive. Vista is better than Windows ME, but let me tell you, that comparison means nothing at all. :P The iPhone can still be bad at a specific thing while beating almost every other phone, because the other phones are absolutely atrocious at it.

      Hey, ever use a Nokia N95? That sure was fun. ;)

    19. Re:vs iPhone by Thomasje · · Score: 2, Informative

      It was impossible to write messages in different languages before that without everything being "corrected" to English.

      Go to Settings -> General -> Keyboard -> International Keyboards, and select all the languages that you use regularly. When you have more than one language selected, the pop-up keyboards will have a little "globe" icon to the left of the space bar, that lets you switch languages as you type. I use this to switch between English and Dutch and I find it's pretty convenient.
      (I use a 2nd generation iPod touch, but I'd expect the 1st gen, and the iPhones, to have the keyboard settings in the same place.)

    20. Re:vs iPhone by dfghjk · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why not? Steve Jobs did.

  2. summary... by sveard · · Score: 2, Informative

    The hardware is bad. The keyboard doubly so.

    1. Re:summary... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I didn't understand the review. They figure everyone is going to love the Pre but the device feels badly put together and cheap, the keyboard is crap, the screen (the best feature) is "almost as good" as an iPhone, the zoom (a pretty critical feature in a small screen browser) doesn't work well and there are no apps. The only positive thing they really had to say seemed to be that it's small. But then, that means the screen is small too.

  3. Prepare to be blinded by Nazlfrag · · Score: 4, Funny

    Palm Pre on Sprint

    It's just... it's unspeakably horrific.

    1. Re:Prepare to be blinded by markdavis · · Score: 2, Informative

      > Actually it's a pretty useless website that doesn't do anything but mumble some useless facts.

      Um, welcome to Marketing 101.
      And, apparently, the number one use for Flash on websites. It seems that [generally] the more Flash a site or page has, the more useless the content is likely to be to the user.

      For *useful* information about the Palm Pre, I suggest going to http://www.precentral.net/ They are a little hyper to post just about everything known to man about the Pre, but there is no lack of useful information (and very little Flash :) )

  4. The keyboard by mikesd81 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    On the downside, this review says the keyboard is lousy.

    Yup. I got that from the first time they mentioned it in the summary. But anyway. So I clicked on the link actually. And the review isn't really worth anything since they couldn't actually use the phone as, well, a phone. Looking at the picture of the keyboard, I have to agree that it would probably suck to use. And in my opinion that's a deal breaker. the buttons are really close together, but that's expected for such a narrow a phone. It probably should have had the keyboard come out to the side and use the phone in a landscape position. It's also quite apparent this guy is biased towards the Blackberry.

    --
    That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
    1. Re:The keyboard by markdavis · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I suspect the keyboard is going to be extremely similar to the Treo line (it certainly looks like it).

      My long experience with Treo's is- yes, the keys are close together, but the keyboard really does work OK for thumb-entry. The Pre's version is nearly identical, just sunken (which might be a problem for some people). That said, I agree with you that it probably would have been better had it slid out the long side (landscape).

      There are plenty of reviews of the Pre. The one sited by Slashdot is probably one of the least useful.

  5. Pre pre by slapout · · Score: 4, Funny

    So this is a Pre-Palm Pre review.

    --
    Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
  6. Actually it does win on features by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the iphone doesn't win on features

    It wins on features hands down - the features people actually use.

    Just the other day I was asking to see someone's Storm, and asked where the browser was- they didn't even know! And after using it for a few minutes I could see why, there was hardly any point.

    The iPhone makes things usable that a lot of people would otherwise never use - and the same goes for apps, I think Apple probably has surpassed the old Palm V installed and use app count at this point.

    You can decry the iPhone as a creature of marketing all you like, but you're only deluding yourself and will never understand the real reason why anything succeeds or fails.

    That said the Pre looks like an excellent phone and I think will do very well. This is because they understand the iPhone is about building a great phone and not about marketing, and the Pre looks to go into the same space with a different take on it that I think can carry a large bit of the market.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Actually it does win on features by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Features like accessing your email

      Yes, because it's so easy to transfer in existing email accounts more people do so.

      There may be other mobile devices with better email support (Blackberry) but that does not mean they are more generally useful.

      keeping a usable calendar

      Yes, again better than most other platforms because integration with your computer calendar is good and mostly automatic when you first start using it...

      decent battery life

      Around as good as other smartphones.

      I think not.

      No, you didn't - the common Apple Hater condition. You didn't think beyond that narrow set of categories (those alone would obviously make Blackberry into an overall winner) into the many other ways the device is used.

      I say that larger feature lists do not mean more usability, so you come back with a narrow cherry-picked feature list and ignore all others. Again, it's the totality of the features that are used, not just one or two features, that make it the most useful device.

      Just the other day, I watched someone spend four minutes trying to finger browse to a web site in a manner that would have taken seconds with access to a decent keyboard and a trackball (read blackberry bold).

      What's amusing is that I read that other part and knew you were a blackberry person just from the tailored list you had picked. Again, it's the totality...

      And from personal use of the Storm I can say with absolute certainly that what you are saying about web browsing being any way better on the Bold is an absolute lie and you will go to the deepest level of whatever the equivalent of Hell is in your belief system if you manage to convince one poor soul to buy a Blackberry for browsing over an iPhone because of your words.

      Yes I disliked browsing on the Storm that much.

      What on earth were they trying to do with a browser that would take more than four SECONDS, much less four minutes? Between quick zooming and panning and input there's no way a trackball is faster at anything than using the Touch controls.

      Don't get me wrong. The iPhone is a decent option, but claiming it wins in options hand down is straight out fanboism.

      So is being selective about the feature set you are comparing.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  7. No GSM, no SIM by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Informative

    First, why no phone test. Did they not have a SIM card?

    They may have but the phone is not a GSM phone. You cannot use a SIM with it.

    Second, the snipe a Palm at the end was not professional. Palm has produced serious hardware, the Palm V for instance. But to produce serious hardware someone needs to pay serious prices. One issue is that Palm is not longer a leader in innovation, and no longer goes after the market that will pay those prices. So, it is now down to commodity hardware, a tought fight to win.

    I loved my Palm hardware of the past. But, I don't think going after the commodity market has to mean stuff that does have good ergonomics, just look at the Palm V... I guess keyboards are more complex to get right for cheap though. I reserve judgement until I do it myself.

    I think they've done a lot of things right though and they may even surpass Android use, though that will be tough with a lot on Android phones on the way.

    Third, who knows what the application store is going to do. Android already has many Apps. iPhone has many apps. Pre will have many apps. The problem is we know have three different platforms, so we in a compatibility hell hole where manufacturers are tying us into platforms.

    I don't mind this though because the platforms are actually pretty different. The Pre will have mostly web apps with extensions - that is to say, be heavily based around web technologies but make some use of the pre specific API's.

    Android will have a lot of apps that are tailored to a wide range of devices, and probably take good advantage of the freedom the platform offers.

    iPhone apps will leverage heavily the libraries to deliver a more touch oriented experience.

    I think there's room in the world for more than one platform, and I don't think it's all that bad you may have to write an app three different ways. I value taking full advantage of the device at hand over portability of a small application.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  8. Native... by DrYak · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My understanding is that the applications (initially anyway) are all CSS, HTML, and Javascript.

    Most of them, but not all.
    Several developers have had special VIP access to build native applications.
    That includes Classic a compatibility layer to run old PalmOS 5 applications on Palm Pre.
    What isn't know if only a select few developers will be authorised to produce native apps, or if opensource developers will get to write native applications when needed (this will be interesting for a couple of resource intensive applications such as media players and emulators).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  9. Re:Carrier Exclusivity Might Kill It by markdavis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > A 6-month exclusivity on Sprint means many people won't purchase one right away.
    > why limit it to a single CDMA carrier?

    Um... think about what you just said for a few minutes. The iPhone is *STILL* exclusive to AT&T. Didn't seem to kill the iPhone. The G1/Android is effectively exclusive to T-Mobile. There are lots of phones that are introduced to a single carrier for a while after launch. I am not saying I like this behavior- I think phones should be completely decoupled from carriers, completely (and without subsidies and contracts). But this is certainly nothing new or unusual. Sprint has always been Palm's greatest champion, so it is only logical they would work out a deal for exclusivity for a while (most people think it will be less than a year).

    Sprint needs Palm just as much as Palm needs Sprint- they are both "gambling" on each other. Hopefully they will both do well for taking the chance.