AT&T Dropping Usenet Netnews; Low-Cost Alternatives?

franknagy writes "This announcement message has appeared in all the news groups on the AT&T/SBC News Server: 'Please note that on or around July 15, 2009, AT&T will no longer be offering access to the Usenet netnews service. If you wish to continue reading Usenet newsgroups, access is available through third-party vendors.' So what free or low-cost alternatives are available for Netnews and the NNTP services for clients?"

Comments

Is it worth it anymore?

[CRCulver]

Unless you are using binaries groups for music or pr0n, is Usenet even worth accessing anymore? I remained dedicated to the network long after most nerds departed because there was still a fairly decent amount of educated discourse on sci.lang and rec.music.classical, but even those groups are no innundated by spambots and most of the most worthwhile conversation partners have moved while only the crotchety remain.

Re:Is it worth it anymore?

[Shakrai]

while only the crotchety remain.

It's not nice to talk about someone like that when I'm^Wthey are around ;)

Re:Is it worth it anymore?

[Useful Wheat]

You should investigate talkorigins.org

Although that website is ancient, its a collection of a vast amount of material on the evolution/creationism debate that was held exclusively on usenet. It serves as an amazing reference so that if you see the same conversation starting for the nth time you can post the link and close the thread.

Now that may seem dismissive, but you would be amazed how many times you will see creationists copy and paste first posts from anti-evolution websites, which have detailed answers that would be a pain to type out each time.

Re:Is it worth it anymore?

[argiedot]

I said "There's always alt.fan.pratchett" but then decided to go check if it was still around and found the Google Groups archive completely inundated by spam. Jesus.

Re:Is it worth it anymore?

[Tablizer]

I've visited the talk.origins group before and concluded that the pro-evolution group is just as zealotic as the creation/ID group. Just because you are (generally) right does not necessarily mean you're not a zealot. I suspect the mellow people of both sides have been driven out.

I once challenged that some forms of intelligent design (ID) studies could *potentially* be classified as "science" (although weak science). The pro-evolutionists there went ape-sh8t. I was appalled. I wasn't supporting existing ID work, only saying if done right it could be classified as "science".

I asked for a clear-cut definition of "science" to verify their claim, and after reluctantly admitting that their working definition had subjective phrases, basically they implied that "if you are educated enough (like them), then you just know what is science and what isn't." (Paraphrased) Formal definitions be damned. It was the dumbest argument I've ever heard from people who should know better. Those people there are not open-minded; neither side.

And in general they exaggerate the link between pre-Cambrian and Cambrian bilaterans. Some mysteries are still mysteries and they should just admit those areas are still hazy. Their defensiveness is blinding them.
 

Re:Is it worth it anymore?

[xZgf6xHx2uhoAj9D]

I still love it. I check a few comp.*, soc.* and rec.* groups daily and they're still active and interesting. There is the odd bit of spam, but that's just easily dealt with as it is on web forums or emails. For binaries I find it useful too (I'm more interested in TV shows and movies than music and pr0n, but either way). My ISP doesn't throttle it like it does Torrents. It doesn't use any significant amount of my upload speed. I never get any less than 95% of my Internet connection's possible bandwidth. Why not use it?

Re:Is it worth it anymore?

[Mr. Underbridge]

What's top posting?

Let's all go into comp.lang.c and start top posting to threads. They LOVE IT when you do that.

Re:Is it worth it anymore?

[Pinky's Brain]

Access to advise from crotchety old engineers for the price of a little bad manners and spam is in the end a very good deal.

Re:Is it worth it anymore?

[Mr. Underbridge]

It's when you reply to a string of earlier messages and place your reply on top, so that whoever reads will have no idea of the context.

What's top posting?

Let's all go into comp.lang.c and start top posting to threads. They LOVE IT when you do that.

Should I do this instead?

Re:Is it worth it anymore?

[Mistlefoot]

But if you are using binaries groups for music or prON you are pulling from the downstream only as 'leechers' are 99% of users. From an ISP perspective the Upstream bandwidth seems to be what causes the most challenges.

ISP's often say that it is something like 5% of users who uses 90% of bandwidth. To be honest, I am not sure how this will advantage AT & T.

I also imagine that any dsl users under contract would be able to cancel their contract without an ETF (early termination fee). I do not know what percentage of users are under contract - but when the services offered are reduced and the customer is expected to pay a 3rd party provider to add them back that is clearly a break in the contract.

I do know that with T-Mobile a few years back a change was implemented that altered service and on each bill, - in the fine print at the bottom -, you were advised that you could cancel your services (with no ETF) or continue with services which would mean you agreed to any changes. Would be interesting to see an AT & T bill over the next bit.

Re:Is it worth it anymore?

[chill]

It's when you reply to a string of earlier messages and place your reply on top, so that whoever reads will have no idea of the context.

What's top posting?

Let's all go into comp.lang.c and start top posting to threads. They LOVE IT when you do that.

Should I do this instead?

No, no, no. When trolling a programming forum, make damn sure you post in HTML-formatted text. If you can figure out how to include the <blink> tag, you could probably hear their heads explode from halfway around the world.

If not, your best bet is to include code snippets in multiple languages, each using different tab-stops for indentation. Make frequent references in how this would be much easier in Java, unless posting to comp.lang.java, then post on how C# fixed it and is really Java done right.

Oh, and make sure to quote a multi-page question fully and answer only with one sentence. They love that.

Finally, big sigs with ASCII art and geek code blocks. The bigger the better. True masters have sigs bigger than their actual post.

Giganews.

[Anonymous Coward]

Low-cost is a subjective term, and it really depends on how much you use it, but Giganews is rock solid. Super fast (I can get 20Mb sustained -- that's my connection max) and over a year retention on binaries.

Do you get a discount now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that they're cutting a portion of the service out - do you get a cut on the monthly rate as well?

Re:Do you get a discount now?

[Miseph]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Good one, you must be new here.

Sincerely,
                    AT&T

Re:Do you get a discount now?

[nomel]

Customer: So, since you cut a portion of my service, will I get a discounted rate?

ATTsaurus: RAAWWRRR...Why, I see your point there, of course we can do something for you!

Customer: ...what? really? Oh, ok, great!

ATTsaurus: Let me enter that into the computer...*pound pound pound*...ok...so...you used 5 megabytes accessing the Usenet server last month, and 9 gigabytes total...that comes to 0.054% off of your bill, or about 4.3 cents! Congratulations!

Customer: ...I hate you guys...

ATTsaurus: RAAWR!!!! *eats you*

alternatives

[Tumbleweed]

I've never found a free one that was worth a damn, but there are several pay alternatives that are quite good. I'm currently with easynews.com.

If you don't need the binary groups, I'd bet the chances of finding a usable free one will be much higher, though.

Re:it is about time

[harryandthehenderson]

I was always wondering why this protocol and all related software have not disappeared yet.

Because of alt.binaries.*

This is going to sound like an advertisement...

[FreakinSyco]

I use Astraweb as its currently the best unlimited monthly payment going

http://www.news.astraweb.com/specials/kleverig-11.html

$11/mo
SSL
Unlimited downloads

I've never had a problem capping my connection's bandwidth or with the service.

Depends on what you think is important

[davmoo]

I use EasyNews to get my pr0...um...er...oh...make that 'I heard EasyNews is good'.

Re:Google Groups or Astraweb

[gilgongo]

If you actually want to READ and POST text news, then I don't know why anyone would use an NNTP client nowadays. Google Groups is a far superior gateway.

What?? How is the Google groups UI even remotely better at threading, marking, filtering and generally managing long conversations? Compared to even something like Free Agent it's utterly shit!

Best Usenet Providers

[CrashNBrn]

It really depends on what you need it for, the best place to go is here: http://www.newsgroupreviews.com/usenet-providers.html

Out of the list I liked binverse.com and usenetserver.com, generally if you go thru the links provided by newsgroupreviews you'll get discounts that may or may not be "obvious" from just going directly to the sites in question.

R.I.P.

[oldhack]

Usenet was my first encounter with electronic forum - questions asked and answered, flame wars, trolls, kooks, some grass-roots projects, etc.

I remember the flame war about people's sig. Some dudes had this gigantic ASCII art sig files, and people were complaining about one-line posts with 20-line sigs, how the bandwidth were wasted, etc.

A trick to have one's question answered rather than ignored: Post the question, and from a second account, post a completely bogus answer with extra dose of condescension. People are so eager to pounce on the bogus answer with full-on indignation.

Oh well. Move on.

Re:R.I.P.

[computational super]

Post the question, and from a second account, post a completely bogus answer with extra dose of condescension

Fortunately, that would never work here on Slashdot.

Re:Just start torrenting.

[cayenne8]

"It's better anyway :-P"

Well, it is better if you want to get caught easier...

No one is really actively tracing downloads from USENET, not like P2P solutions.

For the original poster, go google "open usenet servers", you'll find a couple of sites that index open usenet servers, and gives stats on them.

I know...I know...first rule of USENET is not to talk about USENET.

Re:The web

[Plekto]

Another vote for GigaNews.

I only read about 30-40 groups, ever, and they are all text-only discussions. So their $2.99 a month Jade service is a no-brainer. I don't come close to even half a gig a month with those groups, and don't need thread retention more than 30 days either.

Cheap. Works.

My only gripe is that it's not as good as some of the pricier options that you directly link to. If all you want is basic text-only threading and zero fancy features, it'll take some getting used to the slower speeds and web interfaces. But I also am cheap and don't want to spend $20 a month... For about $40 a year, GigaNews works fine.

Re:Google Groups or Astraweb

[Profane MuthaFucka]

What he meant was:

Kibo can grep all of Usenet for his name much faster using Google.

Newsguy.com

[kriston]

Newsguy.com is an excellent service. Compared to many other USENET services, Newsguy actually has very little spam because of this really clever program they developed called SpamHippo. I also like them because you can buy bandwidth on demand if you want it and the bandwidth balance rolls over each month. The online readers are very focused on the USENET usage experience, with automatic binary downloaders for those binaries with hundreds of parts (and you download the binary version, not the encoded 7-bit version). Of course port 119 is there, too.

Re:Google Groups or Astraweb

[mattack2]

If you actually want to READ and POST text news, then I don't know why anyone would use an NNTP client nowadays. Google Groups is a far superior gateway.

Disclaimer: I haven't actually had a Usenet feed for many years, though articles like this one actually make me want to try one again. I should try one of the free ones (if they still exist) and see if they have even a decent feed for the very few groups I'd want to keep up on. (I really wish Google News had an NNTP feed, even if it charged a low fee.)

I think the reason why anyone would use an NNTP client were actually elaborated very well in Brad Templeton's history of Clarinet article that was posted yesterday..
http://www.templetons.com/brad/clarinet-history.html#m5 in the section "Eventual fate".

(Though I have used it for very infrequent uses, Google News didn't seem to keep track of which articles I read, and the interface certainly wasn't as good as the browser I use(d), trn..)

Re:Google Groups or Astraweb

[synthespian]

Google is not USENET. Google is a privately owned company. USENET belongs to no-one and to all. Do you see the difference? NNTP was very well thought out. It's distributed.

I'm quite aware that there's a generation out there that thinks Google can uncover any info you want (try something from 3 years ago and see how well you fare) and that think that PHP forums are the *best* way to store info. However, a simple examination will reveal how unfounded these opinions are. Google will own your info. PHP forums come and go. That's not reliable information.

OTOH, I would like USENET posting to allow for mark-up text, such as LaTeX or MathML. That would be very useful.

I just wanna say it's terrible

[synthespian]

I'd just like to say it's terrible when ISPs drop Usenet. Usenet is part of the Internet culture.

Re:I just wanna say it's terrible

[jalefkowit]

Usenet is part of the Internet culture.

You misspelled "history".

Seriously, the vast, vast majority of Internet users today came online long after Usenet collapsed under its own weight. Only a tiny minority (like me) remember it, and even fewer of those use it with any regularity.

Culture is a living thing; it evolves. There was a time when Usenet was definitely part of the Internet's culture, but today is not that time.

readnews dot com

[roc97007]

When my isp dropped usenet, I switched to readnews.com. It was something like $7 or $7.50 a month. I created an account, set up automatic billing, switched my news reader to the readnews nntp server, and forgot about it. It's a lot faster than my old ISP's news server ever was, especially when doing mass newsgroup updates, actually making use of the 20 Mbit pipe. They don't appear to do any newsgroup filtering, if you're concerned about that sort of thing.

Of course, I have no connection to readnews.com except as a customer. My first job on a Unix box back in 1982 was as the local usenet administrator, (ah, the days of "B" news and 1200 baud modems...) have always gotten Usenet for free, so it grates to have to pay for it, but I have to admit, the service works flawlessly.

Someone will inevitably point out that you can access news on groups.google.com. That service is excellent for searching for articles, but it fails when you're trying to browse a lot of articles. The interface is just too slow. If you're using usenet as a resource, google groups is fine. If you're actually trying to actively participate in any really effective fashion, you'll need a local news reader and an nntp service.

Re:Google Groups or Astraweb

[jgrahn]

If you are interested in binaries, then I would point you to Astraweb. They have great price plans.

Or maybe he'd prefer not to feed the kind of parasites who helped destroy Usenet. I have very little respect for people who make others distribute and store their warez for them, using resources intended for learning and discussions. They are on the same level as spammers.

reports of usenet's death exaggerated?

[castironpigeon]

There are still conversations on Usenet.
There is still pr0n.
There is still a boatload of warez.
There is still a ton of spam.
There are still many, many groups and messages.
There are still plenty of Usenet access providers and willing customers.
There is still plenty of software to access Usenet.
ISPs are still reducing services while raising prices.

So what's new and why is Usenet apparently dead?

There are free news servers on IPv6.

[molo]

http://www.sixxs.net/misc/coolstuff/#newsservers

Public:

    news.ipv6.eweka.nl
    newszilla6.xs4all.nl

Requires signup:

    reader.ipv6.xsnews.nl

-molo