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Can Commercial Space Tech Get Off the Ground?

coondoggie writes "While NASA's commercial partners such as SpaceX and Orbital have made steady progress in developing space cargo transportation technology, they have recently fallen behind their development schedules. Combine that with the fact that the most critical steps lie ahead, including successfully launching new vehicles and completing integration with the space station, and you have a hole that will be tough to climb out of. Those were the two main conclusions of a Government Accountability Office report (PDF) on the status of the commercial space world this week. The GAO went on to say that after the planned retirement of the space shuttle in 2010, NASA will face a cargo resupply shortfall for the International Space Station of approximately 40 metric tons between 2010 and 2015." Speaking of SpaceX, reader Matt_dk sends along an update on the company's Falcon 9 flight efforts. "Six of the nine first stage flight engines have completed acceptance testing and all nine flight engines are on schedule to complete acceptance testing by mid-July."

21 of 133 comments (clear)

  1. Answer: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes.

  2. The problems... by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The main problems are that NASA because of "security reasons" can't give out a lot of the taxpayer funded research that would help these companies get off the ground. So, what took NASA many years to do doesn't have to be reinvented by a private company. Really, the fact that any private craft could get into space would have been a remarkable feat just thirty or forty years ago.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:The problems... by divisionbyzero · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your quotes around security reasons are probably unwarranted. The research in question could probably also be used to create ICBMs. At least that's the only reason that would seem justified.

    2. Re:The problems... by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So, what you're saying is private industry can't work without government assistance. Forget the ideological orgasms over these projects. The fact is they're riding on some long coat tails to get into space, and we all know how exponentially difficult it is to progress to the next steps in their grand plans. I'm waiting for the day the US "licenses" the Space Shuttle to a private company, gives them subsidies as large as our Space Shuttle budget, then having to listen to the "I drink your milkshake" ranting of free marketers about how private industry knows how to do it better and more efficiently.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    3. Re:The problems... by FleaPlus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The main problems are that NASA because of "security reasons" can't give out a lot of the taxpayer funded research that would help these companies get off the ground. So, what took NASA many years to do doesn't have to be reinvented by a private company.

      The bigger problem with "security reasons" that commercial companies like SpaceX has is with things like ITAR export restrictions; these are the same regulations older slashdotter might remember from the late 90s, where strong encryption was regarded as a munition as people were tattooing encryption code to themselves along with the text "this man is a munition." A recent example is with SpaceX's delayed launch of Malaysia's RazakSat satellite:

      Technicians discovered the satellite and the Falcon 1 upper stage rocket share a nearly identical vibrational mode, which could set up a damaging resonance. SpaceX is bound by ITAR restrictions from assisting with any technical problems on the foreign-owned payload, so the company delayed the launch to add some vibration isolation equipment between the rocketâ(TM)s upper stage and the payload adapter.

      "The easiest thing would actually be to make some adjustment to the satellite . . . but that's not allowed," Musk says.

      Also, if anything, reinventing from the ground up is a big part of why SpaceX has been able to get costs as low as they have. Instead of designing their rockets to satisfy the politicians' fetish for spreading assembly over key congressional districts across the country and the engineers' fetish for maximizing performance at the cost of all else, SpaceX has been able to design their system from the get-go to minimize production costs, minimize the size of their ground crew (SpaceX Falcon I just needs something like 20 personnel at the launch site, instead of the 100 or so needed for EELVs), and maximize potential reusability.

  3. I really hope so by mc1138 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ultimately it's going to be commercial factors that help drive human space exploration. While a "Star Trek" universe where the sole mission is to go out and explore is a great idea, right now economic factors will need to be behind the wheel, and getting some commercial ventures off the ground will help drive up space flight.

    1. Re:I really hope so by NewbieProgrammerMan · · Score: 4, Funny

      "You wanna know my vision? Dollar signs! Money! You think i want to go to the stars? I don't even like to fly!" - Zefram Cochrane

      --
      [b.belong('us') for b in bases if b.owner() == 'you']
    2. Re:I really hope so by Itchyeyes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Very true. The thing to keep in mind though, is that economic issues are more or less a proxy for where society needs resources and skills the most. There are a lot of people who would like to see private space flight succeed for no other reason than "because it's cool". But society doesn't really place much value on "because it's cool", at least not enough to send things like engineers who might otherwise have been working on projects like climate change or new energy sources to go work somewhere else.

      The one real reason to be funding space exploration right now is mainly because there are a lot of potential benefits that we can;t really quantify yet. However, private enterprise is not very good at working towards potential breakthroughs in the distant future. Sure every once in a while a company takes a leap of faith on something big that pays off in the long run, but more often than not private investment is on a much shorter time frame than we're talking about here with much less risk. That doesn't mean that such research isn't worthwhile, just that most of the time it's more suitable for governments to undertake than the private sector.

  4. Isn't space like really exspensive ? by cinnamon+colbert · · Score: 4, Informative

    You have to get to very high velocity - that implies a lot of fuel, and very exspensive craft that can survive the high velocity
    It's hard to do repair, so you have to spend a lot for high reliability equipment
    Space is a harsh environment - you have temperature extremes, radiation, vacumn welding

    many people get the low gravity equivalent of car sickness

    although it is not publicized by nasa, in low gravity, liquid containment - like when you go to the bathroom - is difficult;' as a result, there is a lot of intestinal illness in space (think about that !)

    The take home is that space is, and always will be, very $ relative to ground; therefore there has to be some compelling reason to go to space.
    Sadly, there are few compelling reasons.

    I have been doing biotech high technology startups for 20+years, and aside from the .dom boom era, there is very little money or enthusiasm for gee wiz technology

    1. Re:Isn't space like really exspensive ? by hardburn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The take home is that space is, and always will be, very $ relative to ground; therefore there has to be some compelling reason to go to space. Sadly, there are few compelling reasons.

      Next time you want to get a weather report, try doing it without relying on a source that bases it on satellite imagery. Next time you watch TV, do it on a channel that doesn't link to a satellite somewhere along the way. At least as far as unmanned space projects go, the economic debate was over a long time ago.

      Manned space flight is a different matter. Manned space flight is about the advancement of the species rather than any strictly economic viewpoint.

      --
      Not a typewriter
  5. Stupid space puns dumped here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Get all of your dumb space puns out of the way here

    It depends. Can the Commercial Space Technology get enough momentum to support the project? Can the companies behind these projects meet the orbiting budgets required to fund such a task? One needs to fuel the explosive innovation of space travel. Setting up commercial space technology is exactly rocket science, you know. Only dedication and large amounts of money can get these projects off of the launch pad.

    I think part of the limitation is the atmosphere in high schools about space and space travel. In the 60's, children dreamed about space travel; warp to today: it's almost as if we've headed with an incredible velocity to escape assignments and discussion about the space program.

  6. Only with government help by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2, Funny

    If the government sees the gravity of the situation, the industry might get a boost.

    The problem is that the analysts make it sounds like industry is shooting for the moon, and that makes financiers look at the private industry folks like they're from Mars.

    Heaven forbid that multiple governments are needed to fund a private endeavor. It could force the executives into shuttle diplomacy.

  7. Here we go again by sean.peters · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Geez, here we go again.

    • What are you going to mine in space that you can't get more cheaply on earth? Asteroids, the moon, etc, are made of iron, nickel and silicates. So is the earth.
    • "Robotic mining"? Well, then we only have to figure out how to build robotic miners. And ore processors. And transportation back to the earth (that doesn't burn up the cargo). And get all that into space for less cost than we can just dig up the same thing on earth.

    Yes, the bottom line is that getting to space is really, REALLY expensive. Which in turn means that exploiting resources up there is almost certainly not going to be economically feasible for the foreseeable future.

    1. Re:Here we go again by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Helium 3.
      If it actually works well as a fuel for fusion then it would be valuable and light enough to be worth mining on the moon.
      Un less the Polywell Fusor works then we will just use Boron.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    2. Re:Here we go again by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Space based solar power is, in my opinion, the valuable resource that is up there. Always on, no weather problems, no geopolitical troubles.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    3. Re:Here we go again by hardburn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are metals that are very rare in the Earth's crust, but are extremely useful, like Platinum and Palladium. Any realistic plan for a hydrogen economy is going to need a lot of at least one of those metals, and those two are useful as catalysts in a lot of other chemical reactions, too.

      Say the hydrogen economy is a pipe dream and we should be making better Lithium batteries instead? Well, you've only just moved the problem around. Lithium production is unlikely to meet future demands for electric vehicles, even though it has an atomic number of 3 and is therefore fairly abundant in the universe at large.

      Further, mining of any kind has a lot of hidden costs in terms of human lives and environmental damage.

      But you can strip mine an asteroid without damaging a fragile ecosystem, and with sufficient advances in automation, you can eliminate nearly all costs in human lives. Further, strip mining is relatively easy to automate (pick up chunk of rock, move it to processing station).

      If you want to limit economic feasibility to what only shows up on a corporate balance sheet, then asteroid mining makes a lot more sense in terms of building out other space infrastructure, e.g. O'Neill Cylinders, nuclear pulse rockets built in space, Martian colonies, etc.

      --
      Not a typewriter
    4. Re:Here we go again by Dripdry · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What can we get more easily?

      Let me count the ways:

      Hafnium, gallium, indium, dysprosium, neodymium, terbium... shall I go on? All the things that are running out *fast* (try 10 year supply left) which we need for things like cell phones, LCD monitors, and semiconductors.

      Many rare earth metals are contained in Near Earth Orbit asteroids. At least one of objects has been visited and was not terribly hard to land on.
      Robotic mining might not be *easy*, but we've landed and controlled a number of craft on Mars. It doesn't seem like a terribly far cry to send larger, more robust equipment to asteroids to mine them.

      Now, finding those rare earths may be a bit dicey. Getting to them could be a challenge on an asteroid. However, with all those resources out there and our supplies dwindling somewhat one has to believe that someone will want to get to those.

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      -
    5. Re:Here we go again by Rei · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you'll pardon the pun, I wouldn't hold my breath. On earth, space for solar power means practically free desert land. In orbit, it means thousands of dollars per kilogram of launch costs, and correspondingly (pardon the pun again) astronomical installation and maintenance costs. I don't see how it'd be remotely possible to make up for that extreme difference simply because you get more sunlight. And this isn't even counting the transmission challenges and losses, micrometeorite/radiation damage (cells die a lot faster in space than on the surface), stationkeeping, the risk of catastrophic failure, and so forth.

      --
      Present day. Present time.
  8. Yeah, but it's worth it. by icebrain · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The take home is that space is, and always will be, very $ relative to ground; therefore there has to be some compelling reason to go to space.
    Sadly, there are few compelling reasons.

    I am compelled to disagree with this.

    There are plenty of compelling reasons to go into space:

    Growth of the species - Humanity is expanding in population very quickly. Eventually, assuming that holds, the planet will reach the point where sustaining that population is impossible, even with advances in technology. Your choices, then, are either to limit/reduce the population (sterilization, limitations on childbearing, war, disease, organized extermination, etc) or expand off the planet. The second option seems a little more friendly and ethical.

    Survival of the species - There are several things which can cause the population to be essentially wiped out. Asteroid impacts, war, deadly pandemics, biowarfare (which I personally consider the greatest threat at the moment), and so on. It's possible that some may survive these things by digging deep underground, but I doubt enough infrastructure and population will survive to maintain society as we know it. The best long-term solution I can see is to expand off-planet and establish self-sustaining colonies. You don't keep all of your company's data and server hardware in one location, do you? The same should hold with humanity as a whole.

    Additional resources - This fits with the first point. There is only so much stuff available to us on this planet. Whether we use it all up, or decide to preserve it, we will eventually reach the point where we can't use any more. What are we to do at that point? Well, I see a whole bunch of stuff sitting up in space just waiting to be used. Now before anyone starts, I am not promoting the "strip earth bare and trash it, then move on" approach. Instead, I'm promoting the "let's make use of all those barren rocks out there so we don't have to trash earth" approach.

    Overall, unless we're going to take that self-ridiculing, defeatist position that humanity should draw down into a little ball and live the remainder of its existence shut in from the universe as a whole, like a pathetic and sick individual afraid to even get out of bed*, we will have to go into space eventually. It's just a matter of time. The only question is "when?"

    Some will argue that it's too expensive, that we should wait until we have better technology. But how will we get that technology in the first place? It doesn't just fall into your lap one afternoon; you have to work for it. Imagine if we'd decided 100 years ago that trying to develop airplanes was stupid, that airplanes at the time were too dangerous and impractical, and that we should wait until we had technology like the 777 oir A380... I'll tell you right now, we probably wouldn't be to that point for a couple hundred more years. You don't learn how to build entirely new stuff or do new things by sitting around dreaming about it or making powerpoint charts... you learn by doing that stuff as best you can, learning from your mistakes, and doing it again. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    Yes, doing it is expensive. But it's worth it. The only reason it seems like it's not is that the payoff takes a little longer to come. Corporations don't undertake it because the shareholders probably won't see the benefit within their lifetimes. Governments don't do it because they don't think beyond the next election. Joe Public doesn't think about it because his attention span lasts for 20 seconds and all he's interested in is what keeps him entertained. The benefit is there, but it might be a few generations before it's realized.

    Remember, too, that money spent on developing this stuff isn't just launched away into the sun or something. It stays on earth, paying the engineers and mechanics and managagers (spit) that work on it. It fosters a need for more engineers and mechanics, driving bet

    --
    The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
  9. The subject is unnecessarily alarmist by Fished · · Score: 5, Informative

    Just to clarify, if you RTFA you will find that SpaceX has completed all the milestones so far on time, and they are looking at a 2-4 month schedule slip on future milestones. Now, obviously we'd much rather not have the schedule slip, but in the world of NASA contracting that is like... totally nothing. I have to say that, as a confirmed space nut, SpaceX really impresses me. If they manage to deliver on a third of what they're talking about, they'll completely change the game--and they've done enough truly innovative stuff already that I think they might actually deliver on most of it in the long run.

    Imagine a fully reusable launch vehicle, and a mostly reusable orbiter, making access to LEO or GTO cost in the hundreds of dollars per lb., instead of thousands... that's what Elon Musk is talking about in the long run, and I think he just might actually pull it off.

    --
    "He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
  10. Scaled Composites by secondhand_Buddah · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In this TED talk http://www.ted.com/talks/burt_rutan_sees_the_future_of_space.html , Burt Rutan makes a very compelling argument for the Commercialised space industry.

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