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ACLU Sues DHS Over Unlawful Searches and Detention
gavron writes "The ACLU has filed suit against DHS to stop the TSA from conducting illegal searches and detention. In the case at hand, TSA detained a Ron Paul staffer who was carrying $4,300 in cash in a metal box. The suit seeks to focus TSA searches on things having to do with increasing security on aircraft, instead of their current practice of 4th-amendment-violating searches, such as those of laptops, iPods, etc."
Oh yeah, you gotta hate those guys who spend their time trying to stop the government from trampling on people's rights.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
DHS is just a solution looking for a problem.
It also doesn't hurt that he was traveling in connection with a political campaign. That helps raise other issues directly to the court, such as 1. interfering with a business (so the densest conservative can understand it) 2. creating a chilling effect for those who wish to work on a political campaign (so the densest liberals can understand it) and 3. it was someone who can clearly prove where the money came from and where it was going (so the densest independent can understand it).
Based on the recent Supreme Court ruling concerning DNA, it seems you really have to get all the pieces together so that a judge with a particular political axe to grind won't just ignore their duties and pull the case in a wrongheaded direction.
Yeah, if ONLY there was a well funded, powerful organization that defended second amendment rights. Oh woe are me an my fellow militia men!
So you would rather the ACLU divide their resources so they can spend even less time on all the 1st amendment cases to fight for the right to bear arms when there is already several organizations that devote time and money to 2nd amendment challenges?
Personally I think if you believe that's a good idea you're a fool. If you want to devote your money to second amendment challenges then send your money into one of the dozen or more organizations solely devoted to the 2nd amendment, like the NRA. It would be foolish for the ACLU to divide their limited resources to action on the 2nd when there are so many more challenges to the 1st, 4th,, 5th, 6th, 8th and 14th that they need to devote money to and there are so many other organizations whose sole focus is the 2nd. There are very few organizations that spend as much effort on 1st let alone even care about the others. Only a fool would hate the ACLU for being pragmatic about distribution of their limited funds to challenges where they are the only organization working on them.
Your statement about the ACLU working on 2nd amendment challenges is as silly as someone asking the NRA to work on 1st amendment issues.
Why should he have to pay a fee to transmute the money from one form to another? He was as a fund raising event where he was making a lot of small, cash transactions (selling t-shirts, etc.) He wasn't doing anything illegal and the money was obtained via lawful activities. This whole, "Assumed guilty until you pay a lawyer to prove otherwise" way of doing business in this country is a complete load of shit. I'm glad that the Ron Paul staffer stood up for his rights and I'm glad that the ACLU is championing his cause. The TSA is there to make sure that the planes are safe, and that the people boarding the planes aren't going to try to bring them down. Other than that, they need to GTFO with their wanna be law enforcement procedures.
To my knowledge, the only time you have to declare currency is on international flights and on amounts over $10,000.
Yeah, because the ACLU is only about taking on cases of important people. Even though I don't agree with all of their positions, they are a very effective organization and have helped take down many unjust laws.
(and thank you again, Slashdot, for the five minute wait between posts).
The ACLU is horribly ideological.
Ever see them helping support 2nd Amendment rights?
For the ACLU, some rights are more equal than others.
No, they ARE the problem and they are looking to create more problems. They are the solution to nothing...
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If the ACLU's position was strictly, "We feel there already is a capable organisation defending this right, please see the NRA" then I'm sure the OP wouldn't have an objection. It's when they actively post a non-liberty response to the amendment that the OP is complaining about. They've chose a very restrictive view of this liberty ("restrictive" == "opposite of liberty"), and that's what the OP is complaining about.
Further, they even post that, "in [their] view, neither the possession of guns nor the regulation of guns raises a civil liberties issue." The OP contends that this actually is a civil liberties issue, so takes offense that the ACLU would narrowly define civil liberties to just the ones they like - which seems to be exactly the opposite of what they purport to defend. It's the American Civil Liberties Union, damnit, not the American Civil Liberties That We Like Union.
At least, that's what I think the OP meant.
I hate the ACLU with a passion
Then you hate liberty and freedom. The ACLU's entire purpose is the protection of YOUR liberty.
Finally, why didn't he just convert the cash to a money order or cashiers check?
Google "Ron Paul".
Free Martian Whores!
I'd rather my plane not blow up or get hi-jacked. If that means someone needs to get searched then so be it. Planes are private property - if you don't like it don't fly on it. You can always drive to your destination, or take a boat ride.
Yes...they are private property. So WTF is the federal government doing getting their noses involved?
It probably IS a felony in a lot more places than just Illinois. And, it will soon be a felony in yet more places. That doesn't change the fact that the law is a worthless turd floating in the toilet of oppressive laws. Law enforcement should be subject to recording, anytime, and anyplace. The public pays for law enforcement, the public is entitled to know what law enforcement is doing. Remember, they work for us, not the other way around.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
If that means someone needs to get searched then so be it.
I despise gutless people. People who would unthinkingly hand over all their civil rights because they're pussies. Cash in a box is not going to threaten the safety of an aircraft and was out of bounds for TSA. They could have called the airport cops and said hey that guy's got a box of money. Unless it can be used as a weapon, it's none of their concern.
Unless you think he was going to go from seat to seat bribing people to help storm the flight deck.
This country was not founded by spineless people but we certainly allowed them to multiply and dilute the gene pool.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Because the ACLU is supposed to be for *all* rights, and for *all* people. The NAACP doesn't mean that the ACLU doesn't take a position on the issue of discrimination, why should the NRA stop them from taking a position on Gun Rights?
Granted, the ACLU can and should do whatever the hell they want, they aren't accountable to me (or anyone else who isn't a member), and they certainly are intended to be an ideological organization, it just seems odd to me that they claim that the driving ideal is individual rights and freedoms and then neglect such a major one. Then again, the American Civil Liberties That Aren't Self Defense Union (ACLTASDU) would be much less catchy.
Then you hate liberty and freedom. The ACLU's entire purpose is the protection of YOUR liberty.
Reread his post. He specifically states that one of the reasons he hates the ACLU is because, not only do they frequently choose not to pursue 2nd amendment liberties, but they have even opposed 2nd amendment liberties.
The ACLU's entire purpose is the protection of YOUR liberty.
Not necessarily. Their entire purpose is to further their political agenda, which frequently -- but not always -- coincides with OUR liberties. However, as OP stated, they sometimes have taken positions on issues that violated our liberties because it did not mesh with their political ideologies.
Don't get me wrong. While I sometimes (maybe even "often") disagree with the ACLU, I think the ACLU is probably a net good. But I would say that it is dangerous to assume that they -- or any other political action group -- is always entirely benevolent.
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
This is just a simple case of some little dick trying to be a big dick and then cry about it when he got called.
Story time! You are on your way to Toronto to attend your cousin's wedding. But as you get into the airport, you realize you have no cash and haven't bought a wedding present yet! So you're not sure if the ATMs in Canada work for your bank and you approach an ATM. You're in a hurry to catch your flight which puts you in Toronto just to catch the wedding and in your haste, you accidentally hit an extra zero after punching in $500 and then hit enter. You're now holding $5,000 in nonconsecutive hundreds (this actually happened to my friend once).
Ok, you're not putting these in your luggage or jacket so you put them on your person and they make a noticeable bulge in the front pocket of your shirt but you don't want to lose them.
Guard notices the bulge as you walk through and asks you what's in your front shirt pocket. You look nervous and start to tell him a contrived story about being in a rush and having $5,000 on you--which is, of course, a hilarious mistake. TSA agent doesn't buy it and wants to know what it's really for. Guy wants to know who you work for. Sad thing is you were just laid off by Best Buy and the severance package of $7,000 is the only way that transaction to your checking account went through. So you tell him you're an unemployed guy going to Toronto with $5,000.
The TSA agent informs you they just arrested a guy with a bunch of cocaine on him in the airport and he's pretty sure you were his contact to make the deal and bring it over to Canada. You don't have any police record and were cleared to fly when you got your ticket but that doesn't matter. After missing the wedding and a night in jail, they can't make it stick and let you go.
You're a victim of better safe than sorry. When--guess what--it's not illegal for you to walk around with $5,000 cash on you.
Nice story, huh? Be a shame if it happened to you. But I'm sure I just have an overactive imagination and we all have nothing to worry about.
My work here is dung.
No, but I have seen them stand up for a group of Nazi's, to help them be able to march in a demonstration that a local government (wasn't it a small town in IL) tried to prevent... They have a long standing history of working with people they don't like.. you know the whole "I disagree with what your saying, but I'll help you build a soapbox to say it from" kind of philosophy..
Because sadly, if you want the rules to apply when YOU need them to, then you need them to also apply when "THEY" get the shaft from them.
but too help you out, here is their EXACT philosophy on the second amendment.. From their own website . Note the key sentance: "We do not, however, take a position on gun control itself. "
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
I don't think there is a limit for domestic travel BUT it would be wise to declare it with the airlines at least 24 hours before you boarded.
For the love of everything holy, WHY?!?!?!? If there is no legal requirement to declare the money, then for what reason would it be wise to declare cash with the airlines before boarding a flight? Is the passenger sitting next to you or a flight attendent possibly going to have a reasonable fear that you might bludgeon them with a wad of cash?
It's also wise from a practical standpoint to either give up your rights and cooperate with the agents asking questions you have a right to not answer...
From a practical standpoint, maybe so, but why should we, as law-abiding citizens of what was once one of the freest nations in the world, be forced and willing to hand over those freedoms to a thug just because he wears a uniform?!?!? If I don't have a legal requirement to answer the question, you don't have a legal right to detain me. PERIOD. The sooner we as a nation start getting outraged at abuses of power and start standing up for our RIGHTS the sooner we can live in a country we are proud of again.
Unless you are deliberately out to "test the system" you will just make your life miserable with nothing to show for it.
Maybe. But maybe Bierfeldt just seized an opportunity that presented itself. I admire his courage, and hope that, should I ever be in a similar position, I would do likewise.
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
Interesting, because because 2001, the last hijacking of a US plain was 14 years ago (1994). That was a FedEx employee hijacking a FedEx cargo plane, so TSA/DHS wouldn't do shit to help that.
Before that, it was another 8 years (1986), and that didn't originate in the US.
So please, stop acting like plane hijackings/bombings are even nearly a threat to everyday people. You should spend your time worrying about how to protect yourself from lightning strikes, you are far more likely to be struck by lightning (on the ground, every day) than have your plane hijacked.
If you have any major organizations in mind that do zealously defend all civil liberties, feel free to mention them. I'm only aware of different sorts of piecemeal organizations. I pick and choose the ones that seem to best cover the range of civil liberties I care most about. In my case, the ACLU and EFF seem to most frequently defend the rights I'm most interested in (especially free speech).
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10