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America's Army 3 Has Rough Launch, Development Team Canned

incognito84 writes "The development team responsible for the creation of the freeware game America's Army 3 has been canned, days after the launch of the highly flawed game, which was distributed mostly via Steam. 'The anonymous America's Army 3 developers in touch with Kotaku unsurprisingly didn't sound too pleased with the current situation, venting that "a lot of good people [worked] insanely long hours on this game that was butchered by outside sources.' The game's launch was plagued by massive server authentication issues which inhibited most players from playing it even two days afterward. One of the developers made a post on the official forums saying they were 'effectively stabbed in the back,' and that much of the funding was filtered to the bureaucracy. A patch has been released to address some of the game's issues."

32 of 150 comments (clear)

  1. Unfortunately, this sounds typical by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "...much of the funding was filtered to the bureaucracy."

    I've noticed a pattern in a lot of talent-based industries. On a small scale, or with an upstart CEO you can have talent-driven companies. But, as soon as they hit a critical mass, the bureaucracy becomes the dominate force and turns the talent into powerless labor. Every company I ever interacted with in the corporate world was like this. And, once you've got suits in charge, they make sure that they're well compensated.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
  2. So there are by Sylos · · Score: 3, Funny

    A couple of ways to deal with their firings a)Take their skills and go elsewhere. If they're actually any decent, they can make an impressive game to knock the socks off AA3 b)Complain.. c)(and only if it's true ) realize they suck at programming and find a new career. I make no defense of the Army, I'm sure it's a bunch of bureaucratic bullshit, even more then normal(yay for government!), but c'mon. Basic things like not being able to handle auth servers? Something that is at the VERY CORE of the game, that without *the best* you can do is a plain m16 is crap. There was a pretty massive user base for AA2.x and they did a fair amount of hyping for it(hell, I heard about it and I don't even check gaming news websites.) That's one of the more *important* things to handle. Now, if it was crappy funding issues(god knows I don't know what happened), that's another story. If it was programming/design related....that's something *important* to get working right. Who knows? Maybe they are staying truth to the authenticate Army lifestyle, bullshit and all?

    --
    'Number-memorizing Chinese people.'-Anon
  3. Re:How Ironic by dyfet · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And that sounds much like parts of corporate America and the "rank" system, where those best able to manipulate their managers and stab their co-workers in the back successfully are best enabled for advancement, leading to pure sociopaths at the top tier. Corporations like Microsoft in particular use the rank system...

  4. Abysmal builds by Stray1 · · Score: 5, Informative

    As a member of the beta team , I can tell you everyone was pretty damn concerned about the state of the game so close to its release.

    It was obvious SOMETHING was wrong given the alpha state of the builds they were giving us.

    As it is, you load, hit a button and crash, repeat. I tried to withhold my judgement until they released into open beta, but its just horrible.

  5. Re:Unfortunately, this...typical...extrapolating by JohnBlueMO · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Yep. In fact, its a social phenomena that is not limited to talent-based industries. It effects governments, non-profit organizations, religious groups, clubs...you name it.

    Strangely, I rarely hear talk of it. For reference, see something called the Dunbar Number.

    Any organization that grows over 150 (or so) people either fails or forms a personality-stomping bureaucracy to survive. It doesn't happen right away, but it always seems to happen. And, ahem, the U.S. Army has way way more than 150 people :).

  6. I'm not surprised. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    The American army has a long history of killing their own allies.

    1. Re:I'm not surprised. by tcolberg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Now either your talking about Friendly Fire. Which is in bad taste. Or your talking about turning on allies like Russia which is in only slightly better taste.

      There is a third option: that he's talking about the US Army/Air Force routinely bombing the crap out of civilian targets we're supposed to be protecting and not getting too bent out of shape over it because it's just "collateral damage".

  7. From the standpoint of a soldier. by sealfoss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I spent four years in the Army myself. I was a "Network Swtiching System Operator/Maintainer." Sounds a lot cooler than it is, trust me. I've got two deployments to Iraq under my belt. Really, I have to tell you, every other iteration of the America's Army "game" I played blew ass. I had more fun going to work. Seriously, they gave you "Task, Condition and Standard" in a video game?!?! Jeeze, I'd rather shine my boots and clean my weapon. Not to mention that they just happened to leave out the whole screaming-in-horrendous-agony part of war. People usually don't just fall down and play dead when shot or hit with shrapnel from one source or another, you can trust me on that too. So, I'm kind of glad this game ate shit. The only "realistic" part of it was how outrageously boring training in the Army can be. Other than that, the only purpose it served was to give children a false impression of war, and how god-forsaken horrible it is. Usually that wouldn't matter in a video game, but it certainly does matter when that video game is really a recruitment tool for the US Army. -Reed

    1. Re:From the standpoint of a soldier. by flydpnkrtn · · Score: 2

      Hear, hear. The most fun I remember in America's Army was shooting the drill sergeant and ending up in the brig.

      Haha so you were a 25F? Yea the title sounds so glamorous, until you actually have to setup a SSS and pound 6' ground rods all day

    2. Re:From the standpoint of a soldier. by sealfoss · · Score: 2

      Yeah, the job kind of sucked ass. That is until I knew what I was doing in the Node Center, and thus supervisors started relying on me heavily enough that I got away will bloody murder. Some of my fondest memories are of sending in network status reports to Battalion Command with our unofficial platoon motto "Balls Deep!" Pasted across the bottom. Signal Battalions in the Army are sort of a testament to how quickly communications jobs, and technology in general, has been changing. For instance, our platoon sergeant stayed the hell out of our Ops shelter. All he knew was that we turned red lights into green lights, and kept them that way (or else god damnit!). This shouldn't be all that surprising, as when he joined the army, I'm pretty sure all the signal guys were running lines to hand-crank telephone units. I mean, what the hell is a "work station" to him, right? I have to say that most of the job consisted of doing shit just like what you're talking about. Pounding in grounding rods. Filling generators. Picking up shit and moving it. But occasionally I was able to really put to use some problem solving skills and trouble shoot a fairly complex computer network (consisting of line of sight radio, satellite and TROPO links all across a battlfield). And we could do it at night, while getting shot at and bombed. I dare you to top THAT! If this had been all the job consisted of, I wouldn't have left. Unfortunately, this is the fuckin' Army we're talking about.

    3. Re:From the standpoint of a soldier. by sealfoss · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The recruitment tool that worked for me.... hmm... being bored to tears in college... and planes flying into buildings (that happened in September, I signed up in December). I wanted some adventure. I was young and still stupid enough to think that America's foreign policy might actually do the world some good. Not going to get too political now, but rest assured I don't feel the same way now. Of course they didn't spend time "drilling the horror of war" while recruiting me. That was my point, recruiters are *supposed* to blind potential recruits with "glory" and "action" and shit like that. A joke is that another name for Army recruiters is "liar." Nothing really wrong with all of this I think, it is how you get people to join the Army after all. Now, normally I would apply the same thought process to Americas Army, the video game. But I run into a moral conundrum when doing so, because Americas Army is just that, A VIDEO GAME. And who plays video games? Children play video games. If you, as a legal adult and the Army thinking that war would be anything like what you see in Americas Army (or any other video game for that matter), you are a dumb ass, and you deserve what you get. Either that, or mentally retarded in some way, shape or form. Darwinism at its finest. On the other hand, children do not have the same cognitive ability as an adult, and therefore should not be held to the same standard. The act of killing people being a fun and relaxing experience in any situation, or being able to reset a match when you get shot in the face, are just bold-faced lies when told to children. This is because children will look at the game as being official, released by the Army itself (and who knows more about war than the Army?) AND THEY WILL BELIEVE IT. My recruiter told me a story once about how he had been driving down the road in a particular Eastern-European, war-torn nation. The Humvee in front of his (they were of course driving in formation at the time) was unlucky enough to hit a landmine. "Scared the shit out of me" is the way I believe he put it. Other than that, he didn't go into too much detail as to how well (or not) the passengers of that ill-fated Humvee turned out. Now, in this situation, it wasn't really how much he did tell me about what happened as much as it was the expression on his face and the way in which he skirted around my questions that gave me a pretty good understanding of what it was like. For myself, I don't think I realized what the hell had happened until a year or two AFTER I was out of the Army. There is no thinking about what is going on while you're actually there. No time to stop and say "what in the name of FUCK am I doing here?" Because doing things such as that are counter-productive in the long run, as there really isn't much you can do to get out of the situation anyway (until your time is up). I hope this answered your questions, asshole. -Reed

    4. Re:From the standpoint of a soldier. by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 2, Funny

      A joke is that another name for Army recruiters is "liar."

      My recruiter drove me to the MEPS on my first day. I had drunk too much the night before and was nauseous, so I chugged some Pepto-Bismol before he picked me up. Close to the end of the drive, it was too much and I spewed huge amounts of pink, alcohol reeking vomit onto the floorboards. There was so much material, it formed a clumpy, steaming pool. There was not enough time for anything other than a pissed off look from the recruiter as I was wisked away for processing.

      Through the boring and crappy assignments of my service, that memory always made me smile.

    5. Re:From the standpoint of a soldier. by greyhueofdoubt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>No time to stop and say "what in the name of FUCK am I doing here?"

      LOL, My third trip to Iraq I actually did have time to think about this. I'll set it up for you (it may not make sense to everyone):

      I was standing at the back of a long line at the west side BX at Anaconda where there were like 6 other empty but unmanned lanes for checkout. I'm pretty sure I was buying soap or clothespins or something. Most of the people in line were contractors in jeans and t-shirts. That's not where it began to sink in. Further up the line, 15 minutes later, I have to stand in front of a display for full-length mirrors. So for at least 5 minutes I had to stand there avoiding my own reflection.

      What did I see? Sage green boots with sage green bootlaces. Sage green and tan trousers. Sage green and tan blouse. Sage green and tan hat tucked into a sage green and tan pocket. Sunburned face, short-cropped hair. One hand holding a bottle of soap and a pack of clothespins. Oh I forgot the reflective belt. Yep, gotta wear that yellow reflective belt. This probably sounds really stupid, but right then at that moment I thought, "How the FUCK did I end up in this fucking country wearing this stupid fucking outfit waiting in this stupid fucking line to buy fucking clothespins so I can wash my laundry in my fucking garbage can in my room and hang it out to dry in the fucking dust because my shift schedule makes it nearly impossible to get laundry done where NORMAL people do it and on top of that what mistake did I make in my life that made me willing to get shot at in order to do it? What the fuck did I do?"

      I've been through some really shitty things over there but it wasn't until then that the realization sank in that I was 26, wearing a retarded costume designed by someone whose operational needs involved walking from their car to their office, and that nothing that 26 year olds enjoyed in life was available to me within an 18-hour plane ride. That for thanksgiving and christmas and new year's eve I was going to be stuck on an airfield in a cloud of garbage smoke with assholes who would stab me in the back for a smiley face sticker on their epr, who would lie to me with a smile on their face, who would steal from me, for whom I was expected to lay my life on the line, all in shitty weather with god's own mistakes crawling and flying and biting without respite while people I've never met and who I might actually get along with bombarded me with mortars and rockets. Where soldiers and marines slowly died in a field hospital across the street from a fucking taco bell. For a cause that I didn't believe in, that most americans didn't believe in, that I wouldn't ever feel proud of fighting for, that my kids and grandkids would look at as a colossal mistake.

      I love my job and despite what I've said I wouldn't trade it for anything (well, hardly anything). The places I've been and things I've seen and the people I've met make up for all the really shitty times except during certain dark nights alone when they come back. This is the life I naively chose, the life I slowly adapted to, and now it's become an indelible part of me. Was it really my choice or not? It's impossible to say.

      The point of all this: Kids, don't believe video games. And don't join the military. Go play paintball or counterstrike and get your degree and get your lame-ass job at a brokerage or in tech support or where ever because I'm telling you, and this is no bullshit, your lame ass job will seem like a royal appointment compared to being in the military.

      And if you still join, I'm sure you'll have some good times, and it won't be until years later that you look back and think, "Hey that random guy on the internet was right. I really HAVE wasted four/six/ten years of my life trying to kill strangers. That's pretty fucked up. I wish I had someone waiting for me at home. I wish I had played a role in my family's life. I wish I hadn't missed out on almost every single fun time that my friends had back home. I'm done now and all I have to show for it is a DD214 and a duffel bag full of worn out uniforms."

      Sorry, I had to rant, these things sneak up on you like that.

      -b

      --
      No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
  8. Sounds Familiar by DesertBlade · · Score: 5, Funny

    Long hours unpaid, shortage of personnel, impossible deadlines, sounds like my time in the real US Army.

    --
    Half of writing history is hiding the truth.
  9. the odds by Lord+Ender · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The chance that the entire team was incompetent is very small. When a project fails, look to its management, not to every single engineer on the team. Also keep in mind that half of software projects in general fail; it's a very immature industry.

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    1. Re:the odds by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And if they were all incompetent, then the fault lies with the asshat who hired them.

      --
      Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
    2. Re:the odds by Zeussy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If I had mod points, I would mod this up. So much rides on the shoulders of good management to allow the developers to do their job, and stop the shit filtering down from the higher ups, they also need to learn to say NO to feature creep, or feature swapping so "Yes I can do X, but to do it in time and on budget you can't have Y or Z so you choose.". Crap management just drags everyone and the project down.

    3. Re:the odds by clarkkent09 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also keep in mind that half of software projects in general fail; it's a very immature industry.

      But it takes a special talent to fail when your funding is provided for you and you can give the game away for free.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    4. Re:the odds by deathguppie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No it's a very mature industry. Allindustries go over time and over budget. It is a reality of life that we all think we can do more than we actually can. When that happens on the job we feel the consequences.

      Now I'm not saying that is what happened here but it is a reality.

      --
      once more into the breach
    5. Re:the odds by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's true for schedule and budget overruns, but not true for the massive amount of failures. It's extremely rare that say a construction firm says "Man, this house is bad. In fact, it ended up so poor we can't even sell it. We'll just have to demolish it and start over." Then, again few try to redesign the house while they're building it...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  10. Re:you say it like it's a bad thing by Atlantis-Rising · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think an argument could be made that those organizations tend to split development drivers (groups of designers, etc) into sub-150 person groups which are, at least to some extent, autonomous within their given mandate.

    For example, look at DARPA, which is basically designed along exactly this principle.

    --
    "It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." -Peak Performance
  11. It's not quite that bad . . . by apharmdq · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The situation is not quite that bad, though the summary makes it seem so. From what I gather, it wasn't a major part of the development team that was released, but rather 3-4 people in a small satellite team. Of course, there would definitely be bitterness about this, especially in this economic climate, but the job cut definitely wasn't extensive.

    As for AA3 being flawed, the only major issue it's had is that the authentication servers have been overloaded by the hoards of new players trying to log in and play the game all at once. Obviously something like this can't be predicted, so no one is to blame. (I'm sure many of us recall Quake Live being hammered when it was released in open beta for similar reasons. And Demigod as well.)

    The game itself is a LOT smoother and cleaner than any of its previous iterations. There are some occasional bugs and glitches that need ironing out, but thus far I haven't seen anything drastic.

    (Yes, I am an AA player, and I have enjoyed for quite a long time. No, I'm not at all interested in joining the US Army. I realize it's a recruitment tool, but that doesn't mean there's any reason for me to shun it as a game.)

    1. Re:It's not quite that bad . . . by Ihmhi · · Score: 3, Informative

      I had the authentication problem yesterday for just a couple of hours, the real problem is that everything else is bugged, I've completed one of the training mission with full score, yet at the end it says that I failed it completely,

      That's a problem with the auth server. After you complete training, the game needs to successfully communicate with the auth server to update your stats. If it can't, it automatically defaults to "YOU ARE A NO GO!". This in an of itself was a mistake on the devs part IMO; they should have had a message encoded in which said "Unable to communicate with Authentication Server" or something so people didn't think that they failed training.

      Moreover, every time you restart training, you have to sit and listen to the same diatribe by the D.I. This is not necessarily so bad for some things (where the speech is like a minute and a half long), but I feel really bad for the people who didn't get CLS (Combat Life-Saving) done the first time. You actually have to sit through a video and like a ten-minute lecture on how to properly administer first aid. Thankfully, the pass went through on my first try.

      I've tried to play online but after joining a server and choosing side, I couldn't choose any class, so I changed server and it was even worse nobody could choose any side, so I changed again and with all other servers after the loading screen it sent me back to the menu. I tried again the next day, I choose a server with a ping of 32ms yet it was lagging like hell and I even spawned without a weapon, I had to find a dead body to steal his

      You got further than me.

      Even though I've completed Basic (qualifying on most stuff with Expert, otherwise Proficient), I can't actually join any games. Last night I was in a game where there was literally *one* guy playing and 23 people sitting in spec because they flat-out couldn't get in.

      Again, it seems to be some kind of problem on the AA server's end, because more than a few people have set up LAN servers and you can play on there just fine.

  12. Re:you say it like it's a bad thing by bennomatic · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've heard that 3M corporation does this to an even greater degree. Each time a division is successful enough that it grows past 200, they break up that division's product lines into two subsets, so that they can break up the division into two sub-150 groups. The idea is that for the great majority of human evolution, we've lived in groups smaller than 150, so our brains are pretty well equipped to know and trust and work with that volume of people.

    Get much larger than that and you'll start getting weird political BS. Not because people are bad, but because they need short cuts to help them deal with the overwhelming number of personalities they have to interact with to get their jobs done.

    --
    The CB App. What's your 20?
  13. Not surprising by JayTech · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This doesn't come as a surprise to me... sometime around the version 1.6/1.7 release, a bunch of the DEVs were let go/fired/left (I don't remember specifics) and the game hasn't been the same since. I participated in the beta testing process at one point, and there were a bunch of great guys doing the testing and lots of reports of issues were being relayed to the developers. But it seemed that there were always issues slipping through the cracks because the Army was more interested in phasing in the overall "experience" or storyline of the game, rather than gameplay. I haven't been following the development of the game since a few years ago when the gameplay went south, and I imagine they've been losing lots of veteran players since then. Being the army, it should be easy to assume the DEV team was pressured with unrealistic goals and an unrealistic deadline for launch. Since the game is (obviously) targeted at young adults and they failed big-time on first impressions for many new players coming on board with this release, it's easy to see why someone's head was required on a platter even though the blame really lies with the Army officials. Typical bureaucracy at its finest. I hope the fired DEVs find good paying jobs with companies who don't require treading manure on a daily basis.

    That said, I do hope that moving development into the military sector instead of the private sector ends up saving taxpayer money in the long run, IMHO the game as a whole isn't really an effective recruiting tool anyway. The only thing that's really useful is the virtual-reality training for our soldiers, and that should be the main focus of the development.

  14. Re:How Ironic by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 2, Informative

    Lets put it this way: the worst and most common insult in AA was to call someone an "Obj nub", which stands for "Objective nub".

    The honor system heavily favored deathmatching and just plain surviving a round despite your team losing to the point that the easiest way to be successful in the game was to just run off and camp somewhere and try to get a few kills before the timer ran out.

    It didnt help that there were literally no controls on honor servers. They could and often did have all sorts of wierd mods running on them.

    --
    A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
  15. Re:How Ironic by RudeIota · · Score: 2, Funny

    And that sounds much like parts of corporate America and the "rank" system, where those best able to manipulate their managers and stab their co-workers in the back successfully are best enabled for advancement

    Phew, wow... I'm sure glad that doesn't happen anywhere else... I was worried it might be like that in other places too.

    --
    Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
  16. Where's the Emperor when you need him? by AnalPerfume · · Score: 3, Funny

    If these guy's had use the Imperial handbook, they wouldn't be in this situation.

    "The Emperor is most displeased with your apparent lack of effort" - Vader
    "He asks the impossible, we need more men, we need more time" - Commander
    "Then perhaps you can tell him yourself when he arrives" - Vader
    "The Emperor is coming here?" - Commander
    "That is correct Commander" - Vader
    "We shall redouble our efforts" - Commander
    "I hope so Commander for your sake, the Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Vader

  17. Bureaucratic solution by RudeIota · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But, as soon as they hit a critical mass, the bureaucracy becomes the dominate force and turns the talent into powerless labor.

    When companies *have* to be large, I believe keeping small, relatively autonomous groups of talented employees is the cure. Once a group becomes too large or the group is stripped of its autonomy to enforce mono-culture, innovation takes a back seat to sweeping, generic, stuffy rules that attempt to keep things 'safe' and 'organized'.

    Just about every company wants complete control from the top -- The problem is it's dangerous to assume people from the 'top' have enough insight and knowledge to make good decisions for the 'bottom'. Letting groups of people do their own thing is chaotic, but it's probably good for incubating fresh material and novel ideas.

    --
    Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
  18. Re:Two Words by RudeIota · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Two Words. Socialized Healthcare.

    Yes, I much prefer the warm, caring bureaucracy of a private insurance agency over the cold, sterile bureaucracy of a government agency...

    --
    Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
  19. Re:Unfortunately, this...typical...extrapolating by sco08y · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And, ahem, the U.S. Army has way way more than 150 people :).

    However... the typical company (or troop or battery) has approximately 100 people. You can spend as much as 10 years working at the company level before you reach Sergeant Major or Major. Some jobs, e.g. Adjutant General (which is essentially HR) are tied more closely to Big Army, but others, e.g. combat arms, are more insulated. Even now the traditional terms "troop" and "battery" are retained, even though there's some OCD bureaucrat who is waiting for the chance to wipe them out and call everything a "company."

    I was a Cavalry Scout and we were aware that they were trying to wipe out personality and make us all fit neatly in to their org charts. All the (arguably stupid looking) emblems the units had painted on their HQs were painted over, they banned profanity, and of course our various alcohol sodden rituals were always causing problems for our CO, but for the most part we just ignored them and did whatever we wanted. The flip side of "don't be an individual" is that the Army also demands that you take pride in your unit.

  20. Why work "insanely long hours"? by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why did they work long hours? Against whom is the U.S. Army competing? The game, like its previous 2 incarnations, was to be free-as-in-beer.

    And why is programmer psychosis so prevalent among game developers? Is it because so many developers (like me) got their start wanting to write games, hence strong competition for jobs as game developers?

    Any time long hours are involved, you can be sure it is the result of one or more of at least 3 things:

    * market competition forcing businesses to make promises that cannot be kept except by unreasonable behaviors, such as overtime
    * lousy project management (is there such thing as competent project management? Even at firms praised by clients for having "great" PMs, I've found PMs to be lousy)
    * developers with mental issues of sanity and pushback willpower

    Fuck long hours - especially if they are unpaid (as is almost always the case. It is time for developers to fight-back against being taken advantage-of; we need to demonstrate that we are worthy of respect and reasonable lives too!